What is the difference between Riposte, Parry, Defense and Deflection?

[Jessyme]

<DIV>Hello all-</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There has been lots of discussion regarding how not useful avoidance is against high level and raid mobs. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our AA lines offer boosts to riposte, parry, defense and deflection.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What do each of these do?  Are any of them effective against high level/raid mobs? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am trying to determine an effective AA path to take for tanking.  Right now I am thinking Stamina for the nice combat arts/hitpoints and Wisdom to help hold group agro/resists. But it would be of great help to know if any of these other factors might make a big difference while tanking.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Quijana</DIV> <DIV>Lost Coast Privateers, Lucan D'Lere</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Reposte = hitting the mob before they can hit you, canceling out thier attack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Parry = dodging an attack while facing your opponent.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Deflection = dodging an attack from all angles, including the front.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Defense = All of the above. If you find items that directly raise Defense, then you're raising all 3 at once.</DIV>

[Gaige]

Defense doesn't add to all 3, its simply straight avoidance.

[zabor]

Aye, +defense adds to your base avoidance.Riposte is part of parry (If you parry an attack, you got a small chance to riposte).Sta + Wis is a nice choice for tanking, especially if you max out the Hp traits. The AoE proc from Wis is very good, too. (Up to 700 damage maxed). I went 8-4-5-8 Sta and 4-4-8-8 Wis.

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> Defense doesn't add to all 3, its simply straight avoidance.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well either way, you want to raise +defense straight out. This is more important than the other 3 anyway.

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> Well either way, you want to raise +defense straight out. This is more important than the other 3 anyway.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>No it isn't, not at all.</P> <P>Deflection adds more avoid per pt than defense, and parry not only adds more avoid per point but also increases your riposte chance.<BR></P>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Uhh yeah I'm gonna stand by my statement that +defense is the best you should be raising.</DIV>

[zabor]

defense is so easy to cap out, so you should focus on deflection.

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Uhh yeah I'm gonna stand by my statement that +defense is the best you should be raising.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I would've agreed, preLU13 when it was the best.  Unfortunately the combat changes made defense just another form of agility.</P> <P>But you can stand by your statement all you want, you're entitled to your opinion.<BR></P>

[Rrawl]

<DIV>Just some food for thought on avoidance:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We have the option to wear a TON of gear that is +defense or +defelection, but very little +parry. I think this makes the parry bonus in the intelligence line an attractive choice, not to mention the higher your parry the more ripostes you get as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Defense is the only avoidance component that can be raised by stat buffing (agility), this fact combined with the amount of gear with +defense makes it a poor choice to train with AP's. This is the easiest avoidance component to cap out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Deflection does get the most avoidance per point, and this is probably the most desireable avoidance boost from your gear. The stamina line choice to boost deflection is also very attractive as it's not as likely to get capped out as defense.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my thoughts...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regarding an overall tanking build for AP's, our best choices are probably:</DIV> <DIV>STA/WIS (more group aggro, more hps, less avoidance)</DIV> <DIV>STA/INT (more avoidance and ripsotes, if you're completely devoted to tanking Eagle Shriek can help with damage spikes)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or you could possibly use all three lines to max the parry and deflection bonuses and get _some_ of the group aggro from WIS:</DIV> <DIV>STA 4/4/4/8 INT 4/4/4/8 WIS 4/4/1</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Just bear in mind the attacks from wisdom line limit you to using a 2 hand staff weapon, and reduce some of your options there.</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Rrawl on <span class=date_text>04-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:55 PM</span>

[Jessyme]

<P>Thank you all for your advice/information.</P> <P>Parry and Riposte sound like the most desirable of the four to get.</P> <P>And it sounds like all of them are a form of avoidance which will not work so well against high level/raid mobs, so perhaps not as useful as more hitpoints.  </P> <P>I think I am going to stick with the Stamina/Wisdom lines for now and see how they turn out.  If it looks like avoidance is counting against high level/raid mobs then I will reconsider my choice as tanking is my path.</P> <P>Again, I appreciate everyone's input *smilies*</P> <P>Quijana</P> <P>Lucan D'Lere</P>

[Gaige]

Avoidance counts against raid mobs.  I don't know why everyone says it doesn't.

[selch]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> Avoidance counts against raid mobs.  I don't know why everyone says it doesn't.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>May be because of high hit ratio or 10 hits over 10 attacks ratio?</P> <P>Or just bad luck..</P> <P> </P>

[NerissaRavenHeart]

Maybe we are not looking hard enough to see the difference and it actually working. Who knows.Masuimi<div></div>

[selch]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> NerissaRavenHeart wrote:<BR>Maybe we are not looking hard enough to see the difference and it actually working. Who knows.<BR><BR>Masuimi<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well actually theorically working, but not really values we see.  To-hit is so strong with raid mobs and some nameds. So it practically renders avoidance almost close to none or very low values.</P> <P> </P>

[Noo]

<DIV>Avoidance IS important for Monks tanking Raidmobs. Monks can tank a lot T6 and T7 Raidmobs, and with some of them i would say monks are the best choice. But i think there are indeed some Raidmobs we should not tank. Its no Problem for me to get to 82 % Avoidance and 13k hp with the right Groupsettings on a raid. But those 82 % do not help if the Mob hits you with 10k damage-spikes. Its so much harder for the healers in a raid to keep me alive with those spikey mobs then a guardian. I dont say it is impossible, but its harder. But actualy i think that is right about how it should be. Why does any tank class has to be able to tank all raidmobs ? Personaly i think it is pretty cool that sometimes i am getting asked to tank a mob cause i am the best choice and another time i am assist-tanking. And beleve me, in my opinion monks realy rock assist tanking. I dont remember how often my Heal or the 100 % Intercept saved the Guardian tanking a spiky mob or how often i saved the tank with getting the mob off of him and put tsunami on to give the healers time to heal the tank to 100 % in a nasty situation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>About the diffrent Skills, its right, Defense is so easy to get to the cap. That is why a Troubadour isnt the best choice in your group if you have to tank, a Dirge is much better. Troubas raise Defense while Dirges raise Parry and its much harder to max parry. Since i am at my Defense cap selfbuffed, i picked up sta and int line to raise deflection and parry. I went 4-4-4-5 sta and 4-4-8-8-8 int. Its not pure about tanking as you can see, i like to be able to solo a lot stuff too and thats why i picked up the crits over the deflection.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So whoever says monks cant tank or avoidance does not play a role has either never tested it right or tanked the wrong mobs that are not ment to be tanked of monks in my eyes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Noogard, Valor</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> Avoidance counts against raid mobs.  I don't know why everyone says it doesn't.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Not on orange con it doesnt  , everyones saying it doesnt because it doesnt ! check your logs to see if you avoid 80 % of the incoming hits and it will show you that you dont

[NerissaRavenHeart]

<div><blockquote><hr>DarkMirrax wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Gaige wrote: <div></div>Avoidance counts against raid mobs.  I don't know why everyone says it doesn't. <hr> </blockquote>Not on orange con it doesnt  , everyones saying it doesnt because it doesnt ! check your logs to see if you avoid 80 % of the incoming hits and it will show you that you dont<hr></blockquote>Orange Raid mobs are just scary sometimes if you ask me.Masuimi</div>

[Coccinea_Maga]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DarkMirrax wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> Avoidance counts against raid mobs.  I don't know why everyone says it doesn't.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Not on orange con it doesnt  , everyones saying it doesnt because it doesnt ! check your logs to see if you avoid 80 % of the incoming hits and it will show you that you dont<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><FONT size=2> <P>Mitigation, avoidance and resists all work in a similar way -- the percentage they list is versus white/even-con mobs. If your avoidance is listed as 80%, then your <FONT color=#ff0000><EM><U><STRONG>effective</STRONG></U> </EM></FONT>( <--- keyword there) avoidance versus orange con targets could be 70% or lower. On the flip side, for targets that con blue or green, your effective avoidance could be 90% or higher.</P> <P>(The above numbers are made up to protect the innocent :smileywink:  )</P></FONT>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Coccinea_Maga wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DarkMirrax wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> Avoidance counts against raid mobs.  I don't know why everyone says it doesn't.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Not on orange con it doesnt  , everyones saying it doesnt because it doesnt ! check your logs to see if you avoid 80 % of the incoming hits and it will show you that you dont<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><FONT size=2> <P>Mitigation, avoidance and resists all work in a similar way -- the percentage they list is versus white/even-con mobs. If your avoidance is listed as 80%, then your <FONT color=#ff0000><EM><U><STRONG>effective</STRONG></U> </EM></FONT>( <--- keyword there) avoidance versus orange con targets could be 70% or lower. On the flip side, for targets that con blue or green, your effective avoidance could be 90% or higher.</P> <P>(The above numbers are made up to protect the innocent :smileywink:  )</P></FONT><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Exactly why we dont tank raids without 23 healers , hell according to the guards we got the dps so we just need to be kept up lol <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Its just not balanced that the mitigation of the guardian will absorb with the same efficency on an orange as a yellow where as our avoidance doesnt work as effective ... plain sucks !!! why does our strength go against us for raiding ? </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Noo]

<DIV>Who says the mitgidation of a guardian works the same way with yellow and orange con mobs, just the avoidance does not ? That is BS, sorry to say. Stop talking about stuff you gues but dont know.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Noogi on <span class=date_text>04-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:15 AM</span>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Noogi wrote:<BR> <DIV>Who says the mitgidation of a guardian works the same way with yellow and orange con mobs, just the avoidance does not ? That is BS, sorry to say. Stop talking about stuff you gues but dont know.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Noogi on <SPAN class=date_text>04-21-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:15 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>/Shrug Your wrong but i guess i dont raid so i dont know so ill shut up</P> <P>Our avoidance is ignored on orange raid mobs , check your own logs yourself and do the math dont flame without basis and learn to spell kiddie</P> <P>I can post some logs for you if you dont raid btw ?? and as for the mitigation of a guard you can see it works because they dont get hammered the same as us they lose health at a more steady flow showing the mit is working as intended.</P> <P>Better still try it out and then come back and tell me im wrong ok ? watch a guard do it then try it ... good luck</P> <P>Oh and one other thing if you read i actually said that guards mitigation works with the same efficency not the same way</P><p>Message Edited by DarkMirrax on <span class=date_text>04-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:51 PM</span>

[Gaige]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> DarkMirrax wrote: <P></P> <P>/Shrug Your wrong but i guess i dont raid so i dont know so ill shut up</P> <P>Our avoidance is ignored on orange raid mobs , check your own logs yourself and do the math dont flame without basis and learn to spell kiddie</P> <P>I can post some logs for you if you dont raid btw ?? and as for the mitigation of a guard you can see it works because they dont get hammered the same as us they lose health at a more steady flow showing the mit is working as intended. <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Mitigation isn't as efficient against orange cons either.  </P> <P>As for orange con raid mobs /shrug there is only one in KoS and I tanked my share of oranges (like Godking) in DoF.</P>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> DarkMirrax wrote: <P></P> <P>/Shrug Your wrong but i guess i dont raid so i dont know so ill shut up</P> <P>Our avoidance is ignored on orange raid mobs , check your own logs yourself and do the math dont flame without basis and learn to spell kiddie</P> <P>I can post some logs for you if you dont raid btw ?? and as for the mitigation of a guard you can see it works because they dont get hammered the same as us they lose health at a more steady flow showing the mit is working as intended. <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Mitigation isn't as efficient against orange cons either.  </P> <P>As for orange con raid mobs /shrug there is only one in KoS and I tanked my share of oranges (like Godking) in DoF.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yea but gaige like i said the mitigation works more effectively than our avoidance thats my point , why should our avoidance penalty be worse off than than a guards mit ? you have to remember gaige not everyone is a well equiped and skilled as you , yes thats a compliment btw .. we can tank raid mobs but why should we lose out on our core ability when doing it ? if avoidance is at 80 % then we should avoid 80% of the attacks i mean we got crappy leather so when we get hit its gonna hurt but we should also be as effective at dodging ... just because x mob is bigger doesnt mean we still cant dodge it right ? or am i fighting a lost cause lol ?</P> <P> </P>

[Noo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DarkMirrax wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Noogi wrote:<BR> <DIV>Who says the mitgidation of a guardian works the same way with yellow and orange con mobs, just the avoidance does not ? That is BS, sorry to say. Stop talking about stuff you gues but dont know.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Noogi on <SPAN class=date_text>04-21-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:15 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>/Shrug Your wrong but i guess i dont raid so i dont know so ill shut up</P> <P>Our avoidance is ignored on orange raid mobs , check your own logs yourself and do the math dont flame without basis and learn to spell kiddie</P> <P>I can post some logs for you if you dont raid btw ?? and as for the mitigation of a guard you can see it works because they dont get hammered the same as us they lose health at a more steady flow showing the mit is working as intended.</P> <P>Better still try it out and then come back and tell me im wrong ok ? watch a guard do it then try it ... good luck</P> <P>Oh and one other thing if you read i actually said that guards mitigation works with the same efficency not the same way</P> <P>Message Edited by DarkMirrax on <SPAN class=date_text>04-21-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:51 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>1. I am german and try my best to spell right, sorry if its far from perfect.</P> <P>2. You said: - Its just not balanced that the mitigation of the guardian will absorb with the same efficency on an orange as a yellow where as our avoidance doesnt work as effective ... plain sucks !!! </P> <P>And that is just wrong. The mitgidation of the Guardian will not absorb with the same efficency on a orange as a yellow can mob.</P> <P>3. If you would have read my post before, you could see that i agree with you in the point that monks are worse in fighting spiky mobs then guardians are. Just i think that its ok cause we have a lot other stuff a guardian does not have. From a pure raidtank point of view monks are maybe not as good as guardians, but raiding orange mobs isnt all about this game. If you want to tank everything as good as guardians and the defs change the game, the guardians will say we want as much dmg output as monk and want FD. The defs change the game again and after some time you got 6 tanks with diffrent class names and all have the same abilitys.</P> <P>4. If you think my post was a flame like you said, what was yours then ? an Atom Bomb ?</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by Noogi on <SPAN class=date_text>04-21-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:02 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Noogi on <span class=date_text>04-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:18 PM</span>

[selch]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Noogi wrote:<BR> <P>1. I am german and try my best to spell right, sorry if its far from perfect.</P> <P>2. You said: - Its just not balanced that the mitigation of the guardian will absorb with the same efficency on an orange as a yellow where as our avoidance doesnt work as effective ... plain sucks !!! </P> <P>And that is just wrong. The mitgidation of the Guardian will not absorb with the same efficency on a orange as a yellow can mob.</P> <P>3. If you would have read my post before, you could see that i agree with you in the point that monks are worse in fighting spiky mobs then guardians are. Just i think that its ok cause we have a lot other stuff a guardian does not have. From a pure raidtank point of view monks are maybe not as good as guardians, but raiding orange mobs isnt all about this game. If you want to tank everything as good as guardians and the defs change the game, the guardians will say we want as much dmg output as monk and want FD. The defs change the game again and after some time you got 6 tanks with diffrent class names and all have the same abilitys.</P> <P>4. If you think my post was a flame like you said, what was yours then ? an Atom Bomb ?</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>He means mitigation always works, not the value you have seen in your persona window but no matter how high mob is (except red) , all damage is mitigated (no other way, -- not mitigated as an even con but still mitigated)</P> <P>In avoidance there is 1 or zero. You avoid or you got hit. Chance being dropped mean you sure got hit and hard due to already low mitigation of leather + lowered mitigation value.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> selch wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Noogi wrote:<BR> <P>1. I am german and try my best to spell right, sorry if its far from perfect.</P> <P>2. You said: - Its just not balanced that the mitigation of the guardian will absorb with the same efficency on an orange as a yellow where as our avoidance doesnt work as effective ... plain sucks !!! </P> <P>And that is just wrong. The mitgidation of the Guardian will not absorb with the same efficency on a orange as a yellow can mob.</P> <P>3. If you would have read my post before, you could see that i agree with you in the point that monks are worse in fighting spiky mobs then guardians are. Just i think that its ok cause we have a lot other stuff a guardian does not have. From a pure raidtank point of view monks are maybe not as good as guardians, but raiding orange mobs isnt all about this game. If you want to tank everything as good as guardians and the defs change the game, the guardians will say we want as much dmg output as monk and want FD. The defs change the game again and after some time you got 6 tanks with diffrent class names and all have the same abilitys.</P> <P>4. If you think my post was a flame like you said, what was yours then ? an Atom Bomb ?</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>/Yup im a brusier so i drop a few Atom Bombs lol :smileywink: sry was having a bad day yesturday</FONT> </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>He means mitigation always works, not the value you have seen in your persona window but no matter how high mob is (except red) , all damage is mitigated (no other way, -- not mitigated as an even con but still mitigated)</P> <P>In avoidance there is 1 or zero. You avoid or you got hit. Chance being dropped mean you sure got hit and hard due to already low mitigation of leather + lowered mitigation value.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>/Thanks for putting it better</FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Sslarrga]

<DIV>Aye avoidance and mitigation are reduced basically the same against whatever mobs you are comparing them again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, avoidance seems to be significantly worse because of the way that it works.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lets say that a guardian had 80% mitigation vs white solo con but no avoidance and a monk had 80% avoidance vs white solo con and no mitigation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now lets say against X mob it was basically reduced to 20%.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For a mitigation tank that means every single hit has the damage reduced by 20%.  However for avoidance that means 8 out of 10 hits go for full damage.  Of course, random being random there's a good chance that you might go 15 hits and then 3 misses.  15 unmitigated hits is harder to keep up with healing than 15 hits where damaged is reduced by 20% on each hit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IE - mitigation tanks have a distinct advantage because while both "tanks" take the same damage over those 18 attacks, it's significantly easier to heal the mit tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh but it gets better.  Mitigation has an additional benefit.  Against certain high damage CAs.  20% mitigation means that the mitigation tank has a 20% chance to avoid (resist) the attack.  If it hits then the mitigation tank takes the damage minus the 20% mitigation.  The avoidance tank in this case?  No chance to avoid and no damage mitigated.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And if you think avoidance doesn't work against Orange cons, check your logs again.  It does work.  Just at a significantly reduced percentage.  Mitigation is similarly reduced however it is applied to every hit, there's a lot less luck involved in living or dying.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And as to the orignal question...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Deflection is a chance to well...deflect an incoming attack so that it doesn't hit.</DIV> <DIV>Parry is basically a chance to well...parry (block in a sense) an attack that didn't get deflected.</DIV> <DIV>Defense is a chance to get the hell out of the way of an attack that was neither deflected, nor parried.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you have a parser that keeps track of these things.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Deflection = Deflect message.</DIV> <DIV>Parry = Parry message.</DIV> <DIV>Defense = Miss message.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Deflection is king, parry is good value for points spent, and defense is just very poor value per point.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With roughly 42 defense, 12 parry, and 41 deflection.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In any given fight I will deflect twice as many potential hits as my defense will avoid.  Often times I will also parry more than I avoid due to defense.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In a bit of an odd quirk, the amount of hits you parry vs grey and low green mobs is just out of what with the parry rating relative to the other two avoidance components.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regards,</DIV> <DIV>Croaker</DIV><p>Message Edited by Sslarrga on <span class=date_text>04-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:01 AM</span>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sslarrga wrote:<BR> <DIV>Aye avoidance and mitigation are reduced basically the same against whatever mobs you are comparing them again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, avoidance seems to be significantly worse because of the way that it works.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lets say that a guardian had 80% mitigation vs white solo con but no avoidance and a monk had 80% avoidance vs white solo con and no mitigation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now lets say against X mob it was basically reduced to 20%.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For a mitigation tank that means every single hit has the damage reduced by 20%.  However for avoidance that means 8 out of 10 hits go for full damage.  Of course, random being random there's a good chance that you might go 15 hits and then 3 misses.  15 unmitigated hits is harder to keep up with healing than 15 hits where damaged is reduced by 20% on each hit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IE - mitigation tanks have a distinct advantage because while both "tanks" take the same damage over those 18 attacks, it's significantly easier to heal the mit tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh but it gets better.  Mitigation has an additional benefit.  Against certain high damage CAs.  20% mitigation means that the mitigation tank has a 20% chance to avoid (resist) the attack.  If it hits then the mitigation tank takes the damage minus the 20% mitigation.  The avoidance tank in this case?  No chance to avoid and no damage mitigated.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And if you think avoidance doesn't work against Orange cons, check your logs again.  It does work.  Just at a significantly reduced percentage.  Mitigation is similarly reduced however it is applied to every hit, there's a lot less luck involved in living or dying.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>/Yes i didnt mean it doesnt work as i did say "Its just not balanced that the mitigation of the guardian will absorb with the same efficency on an orange as a yellow where as our avoidance doesnt work as effective ... plain sucks !!! why does our strength go against us for raiding ?" so i just meant that its no where near as effective :smileysad:</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And as to the orignal question...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Deflection is a chance to well...deflect an incoming attack so that it doesn't hit.</DIV> <DIV>Parry is basically a chance to well...parry (block in a sense) an attack that didn't get deflected.</DIV> <DIV>Defense is a chance to get the hell out of the way of an attack that was neither deflected, nor parried.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you have a parser that keeps track of these things.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Deflection = Deflect message.</DIV> <DIV>Parry = Parry message.</DIV> <DIV>Defense = Miss message.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Deflection is king, parry is good value for points spent, and defense is just very poor value per point.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With roughly 42 defense, 12 parry, and 41 deflection.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In any given fight I will deflect twice as many potential hits as my defense will avoid.  Often times I will also parry more than I avoid due to defense.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In a bit of an odd quirk, the amount of hits you parry vs grey and low green mobs is just out of what with the parry rating relative to the other two avoidance components.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regards,</DIV> <DIV>Croaker</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Sslarrga on <SPAN class=date_text>04-22-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:01 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>