UPDATED and CHANGED AGAIN Brawler Achievements

[Rrawl]

<div>Rather then having a Monk in Beta duplicate all the hard work... Here's a link to a comprehensive update in the Bruiser forums, complete with screenies:</div><div><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=13922"><font color="#c8c1b5">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=13922</font></a></div>

[i3ry]

I miss EQ1 AAs.  These boring things suck.<div></div>

[Rrawl]

<div>The text one pressure points reads 'Reduce Magic Level Immunity' on target by 3.5...</div><div> </div><div>I wonder if that means this skill could be used to ALLOW Epic mobs to be hit with bare fists?</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Rrawl]

<div>The pressure points shows a duration of 1 minute with a 20 second recast... The Double Attack is also showing a 23% chance to do the double attack at rank 1... Does this % get higher with higher ranks?  Assuming pressure points does allow you to do barefisted damage to targets currently immune to this it might not be a complete waste of time...</div>

[MadBarman]

Would it matter? You have to be unarmed to use the ability, so if bare fists wont hit before you use it then you can't land it<div></div>

[Rrawl]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>MadBarman wrote:Would it matter? You have to be unarmed to use the ability, so if bare fists wont hit before you use it then you can't land it<div></div><hr></blockquote>I may be mistaken... but currently they hit and do no damage?

[JudyJudy]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rrawl wrote:<div>The pressure points shows a duration of 1 minute with a 20 second recast... The Double Attack is also showing a 23% chance to do the double attack at rank 1... Does this % get higher with higher ranks?  Assuming pressure points does allow you to do barefisted damage to targets currently immune to this it might not be a complete waste of time...</div><hr></blockquote><em>The double attack looks as if it is only applicable if fighting bare fisted.  I'd be a very happy camper is they reduced the percentage in trade for the skill to be passive with ANY weapon equiped.</em>

[Rrawl]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>JudyJudy wrote:<div></div><em>The double attack looks as if it is only applicable if fighting bare fisted.  I'd be a very happy camper is they reduced the percentage in trade for the skill to be passive with ANY weapon equiped.</em><hr></blockquote><p>I'm sure we all would. But obviously they have decided to implement these weapon limits and we all know how stubborn devs can be. *looks for the bolt of lightning*</p><p>I'm just trying to take what they've given us and see how we could get the most out of it... before I start picking out which ones to train.</p><p>Message Edited by Rrawl on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:08 PM</span></p>

[Nightt N'D]

<div>Is it me or are these AAs becoming worse and worse?</div>

[diamondma]

pretty much the only ca i like in the whole thing is mantis leap.<div></div>

[Junaru]

Well since you only hit with one hand when unarmed it would take 100% double attack just to get you in the same range as normal DW and you still loose all the stats from your weapons.These AA's are a joke. Atleast before they seemed ok but nothing so out of balance that it would require re doing them all.<div></div>

[Gaige]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Nightt N'Day wrote:<div>Is it me or are these AAs becoming worse and worse?</div><hr></blockquote><p>I'm pretty sure the contention from all brawlers is...</p><p>these achievements SUCK.</p><p>The *only* and I mean only salvageable aspect of them is that the sta/int line can give you some decent avoidance if you max out the parry/deflection skills.</p><p>That, along with some ranged CA's (2 to be precise) and a nice increase in critical hit chance... isn't horrible.</p><p>Comparing it to the new warrior AAs though will make you want to strangle kittens.</p><p>I mean hell, they got tsunami, more avoidance and a cool stance AA.</p><p>We got... oh wait we didn't get anything, they just took stuff away from us, like phys mit.</p>

[MadBarman]

Just read the warrior AA's damnit I really do want to strangle some kittens now <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Cwi]

<div></div><div></div><p>This feedback is in regards to the latest (02/16/06) change to Brawler AA’s in KoS Beta.</p><p>Regarding the removal of any option to increase our mitigation:Brawlers are fighters. Fighters are tanks. Tanks use a combination of avoidance and mitigation to keep from dying while tanking. You’re giving the other two fighter classes (warriors and crusader) the ability to increase their mitigation and avoidance. And you were planning to give us that option as well. Now you’ve removed our option to increase our mitigation. The amount of mitigation we could gain from the AA’s was not overbalancing and did not warrant being nerfed much less to be completely removed. <span> </span>As long as “mitigation fighters” get the option to use AA’s to increase their avoidance, we “avoidance fighters” should get the option to use AA’s to increase our mitigation</p><p>With the avoidance aa’s we’re given we can reach the avoidance cap already; the mitigation AA’s give a player that choose to tank using a brawler the option of something to spend his AA’s on that will help him out once he’s reached that cap. (I know that having avoidance over that cap helps against mobs that are higher level than you, but it becomes a situation of decreasing returns over a certain point.)</p><p>Regarding the forced use of unarmed fighting for Srength tree AA’s:The best way I can put this is “Fighting without weapons equipped is unintelligent.” Why is it unintelligent? First, when one fights with no weapons equipped the game treats that as though you are fighting using a one-handed weapon with a bad damage rating. Second, by not having weapons equipped you are giving up that attribute bonuses that you would otherwise receive from your weapons. Third, a character’s unarmed fists cannot damage mobs over a certain tier of difficulty. I am aware of the AA ability that lets you lower the “magic level immunity” and thus make “epic” mobs hittable. However, a character fighting unarmed using all of the AA’s from the Strength tree still isn’t going to even equal the DPS of a character using a couple of dual wield weapons that has no AA’s. This makes the entire offensive side of the Strength tree not just ineffective but actually detrimental.</p><p>Regarding the forced use of one-handed weapons for Agility tree AA’s:When EQ2 was released brawlers were able to equip one-handed weapons and buckler shields. Then our ability to use shields was removed. The use of one-handed weapons then became an unintelligent choice without the ability to equip any item whatsoever in our secondary weapon. By using a one-handed weapon, a character gives up the ability to produce as much damage and the ability to gain attributes from two equipped items, and in return they receive nothing. The Agility tree AA that allows the brawler to receive extra haste when using one-handed weapons does not even offset this penalty, much less give any sort of bonus. Monks already are easily capable of reaching the haste buff by themselves, and are always over the haste buff while in a raid. The AA does not allow us to reach the damage production of using two dw’s or one two-handed weapon, much less surpass it, and it does not give us attributes to compensate for giving up an item slot.</p><p>After looking over all the changes to Brawler AA’s, I’m left with many questions: the first of which is “Who is in charge of designing the Brawler AA’s?” followed by “Do they play a brawler?” These two questions ring out the loudest in my mind, and I’m sure they echo throughout the brawler community. Anyone that was experienced at playing a Brawler would never have made these changes. They are at best unintelligent. The way I’d really describe them is unnecessary, counterproductive, and insulting. No one that knows how to play a brawler is going to choose these AA’s now, because in doing so they give up attributes and damage production and gain absolutely nothing in return. You want us to believe that these AA’s are still somehow beneficial and that is an insult to our intelligence. I’d like to ask that whoever it is that is currently in charge of designing the Brawler AA’s be taken off this assignment and someone that knows what they are doing replaces them.</p><p>Edit: fixed typos</p><div></div><p>Message Edited by Cwiyk on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:00 PM</span></p>

[MadBarman]

Wow nice feedback there, If I could you would've got 5 stars for that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Think it pretty much sums up the AA's now. Unintelligent is the prefect word for them.<div></div>

[Bewts]

<div></div><p>Brice couldn't have put it any better.  I was excited about an alternate advancement tree when it was announced.  I was excited when NDA was lifted and some interesting combinations were available if you planned to tank or you planned to maximize your damage.  The most current advancement tree is very dissapointing.  Especially 1 week out from going live.  Even if the tree gets another revamp to it, you have almost no time left to test it and we are presented with a barely tested advancement tree.  Luckily we can change our advancement paths for a price when the advancement tree goes live with 1 week of beta testing it.</p><p>I'm very dissapointed and I'd rather wait another month and have a well developed advancement tree.  Beta testing is great, but they represent such a small minority of the people who possess knowledge of the brawler class I would think it prudent to open up some form of corroboration with those on live who aren't in beta.  We as a brawler community are very concerned with the current state of the advancement tree.  You want to please the customers, so why not ask us what we want, what ideas we have and what critiques we have to the system before throwing us a product that inevitably will go live unfinished.  I've come to expect unfinished products from development, but this is by far the worst one I've seen yet.</p>

[Anasyn Silverdagg]

<div>Loved the feedback that you sent in! Hopefully someone reads it and does something about the AA's.  I was also looking forward to AA's and these are just crap.</div><div> </div>

[Kronadin]

<div></div>I can only agree with the community, and I'm glad Brice summed it up in a way that everyone should understand. :smileywink:

[YciaAoso]

<div>wow thats bad</div><div>onehand weapon ?? whats that??</div><div>unarmed could be ok for brusers didnt there offensive stance needs empty hands</div><div>but that looksn reallllllyy bad i hope the fix that</div><div>would be a start to chance onhand the dw</div>

[shaolen]

<div></div>Well said Brice, hopefully somone will listen.  

[ShinmaRyche]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>YciaAoso wrote:<div> </div><div>unarmed could be ok for brusers didnt there offensive stance needs empty hands</div><hr></blockquote><font color="#ffff00">They removed the unarmed component from our offensive stance. These AA are horrible. The weapon use restrictions make the strength line almost completely useless. BTW, Im feedbacking every time im logging in to beta, hopefully added with feedback from other players we can get something more useful.</font>

[Grabaan]

I'm not sure why I always get my hopes up....Brice, thanks for pointing out the nature of the problem. Perhaps comments like these will force some re-evaluation of our AA's.Perhaps this is payback for gaining some tanking legitimacy?Who knows... But it is clear little feedback exists between those creating our AA's and those responsible for other fighters. If I'm mistaken, then I see little excuse for such bias.- Grab<div></div>

[zabor]

yes, i really think they should have another look into this. These AA's are hardly worth it.

[ShinmaRyche]

<div></div><hr><span><span class="headline">Beta Update Notes : February 16, 2006<i> 2/16/2005 9:00 pm</i></span></span> wrote:<span class="headline"><i></i></span>- Achievements with equipment requirements (or other requirements) willnow disable correctly when the equipment is removed.- All Achievements should all be functioning in their finalized state(barring any necessary bug fixes).<hr>

[DynamicPerforman]

<div></div><div>*strangles a kitten* Ok well at least we have infinite instant teleports and 100% chance for criticals <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>*ducks as the nerf bat flys by*</div><div> </div>

[Rrawl]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>DynamicPerformance wrote:<div></div><div>*strangles a kitten* Ok well at least we have infinite instant teleports and 100% chance for criticals <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>*ducks as the nerf bat flys by*</div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p>Tell me about it... In their current state it would appear our best choice for CA's would be to grab Mantis Leap and/or Crane Flock, and spam these combat arts Ad Infinitum, since they have _no?_ reuse timers whatsoever...</p><p>Those just smack of being nerfed down the line though...</p>

[Vorham]

a "no recast" teleport would be useful -- thus it will be changed<div></div>

[Gaige]

<div></div><p>Worst achievements ever and I"m disappointed in Rybus and whoever helped him do them.  They're a joke.  I seriously doubt I'll even take any at this rate.</p><p>Pathetic.</p>

[Junaru]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div><p>Worst achievements ever and I"m disappointed in Rybus and whoever helped him do them.  They're a joke.  I seriously doubt I'll even take any at this rate.</p><p>Pathetic.</p><hr></blockquote>I'm with you. Hell since I'm not 60 yet I might even hold off on KoS all together. It was the only reason I would going to buy it.</span></div>

[superdave]

<div></div>Our aa's just stink. maybe the stamina line is worth it thats it. Way to go soe not listening again to us. You would think they listen to us by now. HAHAHAHA

[x0rtrun]

Sounds like they listened to the guardians though. Their AAs are actually useful and just help to make them the prefered raid tank bar none once more.I plan on taking mantis leap and trying to max out my avoidance. The inate chance to crit might be useful if it upgrades to a useful percentage.The weapon requirements suck, the lack of mit boosting sucks. Unhappy am I.<div></div>

[Cwi]

Thanks all that agreed with my summation of the problems with this change to our AA's. I encourage everyone to not just post here but to submit /feedback in every form you can. =)<div></div>