Do we deal less damage than a Bruiser?

[system err]

<div>Having trouble picking which one i want to be</div>

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div><div>monks/bruisers are about equal dps. its situational though.</div>

[Asheng]

in a long drawn out fight, I think we do more damage. Bruisers definatly win in the upfront burst dps  though.<div></div>

[Mala-Shea]

<div></div><p>Our guild bruiser and I are comparably equipped. Parsing I kill him on single target raid mobs...he kills me on group mobs.</p><p> </p><p>Slapp</p><p>60 Monk</p><p>Heroes Fate</p><p>Grobb</p>

[Stryyfe]

I agree with the above... I can help you make your decision though.Monks get a self-invis.And they can remove debuffs including poison... Bruisers can't remove poison.There is your decision, see you in monk land.<div></div>

[masoninc61]

<div></div><div>can remove slashing, crushing, piercing, and mental tho</div>

[JudyJudy]

<div></div><p><em>And if I may add:</em></p><p><em>*A self heal that can be used on OTHERS as well - great for saving the MT and allowing the healers to breathe a little easier</em></p><p><em>*Group Feign Death</em></p><p><em>*Tsunami = 12 seconds of invulnerability to physical attacks</em></p><p><em>*Outward Calm = 15 seconds and/or 4320 pts of magic damage absorbed</em></p><p><em>Monk ftw :smileyhappy:</em></p>

[Rrawl]

<div>I've been figthing with a comparably equipped bruiser of late, and I can offer this priceless gem:</div><div> </div><div>We've had fun with aggro battles, and he can't steal my aggro, no way, no how. This has been in Poet's Palace against white yellow and orange con heroic mobs. We've got two healers with us so we both go full offensive, all taunt procs going, both of us taunting and mashing CA's... no contest, I got aggro every time.</div><div> </div><div>Who cares about DPS, we're fighters, we're tanks.</div>

[lagerone]

<div></div><p>We parse every raid.  Over 1m 30s fights a L60 Bruiser and L60 Monk are doing almost identical DPS. </p><p>The Monk was about 2-3% ahead on average.</p>

[Asheng]

now if it was a pvp server i'd say bruiser :p They destroy us with stun immunity, fear, mez, and high upfront dps.The one thing that always annoys me about bruisers is why they get a 3 min mitigation buff and we don't.<div></div>

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div>Your get a perma-haste buff, we get a three minute mitigation buff.If you really want to get technical, we can complain and say our buff should be perma as yours is.You have two mitigation buffs, as we do. One roots you, the other Stuns you.

[-Llama-]

<div>And we can still single target taunt even while stunned. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div>Yes, Both Bruiser & Monk can.

[nobunaga_x]

<div></div><p>I think bruisers do more damage in a short period.  I was in a DPS heavy group with Bruiser as main tank(59) and I was 57.  Bruiser was whooping me in DPS as someone in group had a parser.  He had one Ability that did 2k damage consistantly.  These were very short fights though and with so many ability's I had a hard time getting most of them in.</p>

[-Llama-]

<div></div>If the bruiser was tanking unarmed in offensive stance, he probably was procing Engulf quite often. But thats only group DPS. Can't go unarmed against a raid mob. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div>I think Nobunga was speaking of Kidney Punch/Dirty Punch, our backstab.  Not Engulf procs.

[Gui Lo]

<div></div><div></div><p>If you want pure dps i think you should play bruiser. I think bruiser do more dam then Monks ( Solo,Raid and in groups ). Some people say that Monks do more dam in a long fight like in Raids ( because they can cap them self with haste ) but they speak about a selfbuffed Monk in a raid. But you have to add the group buffs in raids. A bruiser can easy get 80+ haste and additional dps buffs and his spells do much more dam then the Monk spells and also two epic stuns and a great debuff.</p><p> </p><p>My 2 Cents</p><p>Message Edited by Gui Long on <span class="date_text">01-25-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:59 AM</span></p>

[diamondma]

bruisers and monks do about the same dmg in raids because tanks can only hold so much agro. usually the most i can avg in a raid without pulling agro is 600-700dps and thats with alot of hate buffs on the mt. ive never really seen a huge difference between the dmg bruisers do and the dmg i do. usually just depends on who is bein lazy or not that night. what i do see is that bruisers steal agro quite abit because some of their ca's do alot of dmg whereas we have alot of ca's that do med-high dmg.<div></div>

[Asheng]

the thing about it that annoys me though phay, is (at least I thought) monks were supposed to be slightly more defensivly built while bruisers had a slight offensive bonus.As a fighter class, ie tank, Im not worried about my dps as much as I am my ability to successfully tank. I mean it's what our class is built to do. If were tanking, running everburning flame line, isn't the best option (especially vs a epic) because of it's health drain. Id much rather have a 3 minute mitigation buff to help my already pathetic mitigation :p Bruisers get better mitigation then monks, that to me, makes no sense. Every little bit helps when that avoidance roll doesn't work out.The only things we have that are better defensivly, are tsunami, and our taunt proc, which is 50% to your 25% I believe.on a side note, ever notice how horrible avoidance is in PVP?<div></div>

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div>Monks have more avoidance. Bruisers have more mitigation.Monks get Tsunami, Bruisers get a teleport kick.Monks get Outward Calm, Bruisers get stone Deaf.Monks taunt proc isn't really better than Bruisers:  Yes, Monks is 50% however its just straight hate, Bruisers is damage + hate on 25% chance.  Therefore about equal.You have two mitigation buffs, just like Bruisers, without your self haste/drain power line you would most definetly be complaining, along with several other monks.All tanks are about equal.  You should be happy with that.Bruisers & Monks DPS is about equal as well. Therefore should be nothing to complain about.

[lagerone]

<div></div><div><em>diamondmage: "bruisers and monks do about the same dmg in raids because tanks can only hold so much agro. usually the most i can avg in a raid without pulling agro is 600-700dps and thats with alot of hate buffs on the mt"</em></div><div><em></em> </div><div>Parsed 60 Bruiser DPS from Al'Afaz:</div><div> </div><div>Duration        DPS</div><div>1:18              405</div><div>1:31              348</div><div>1:11              421</div><div> </div><div>The only time Bruiser DPS gets into the 700 range is on very short fights, ie 20 secs where combat arts are spammed.  Where jousting is required DPS is usually in the 200s.</div><p>Message Edited by lagerone on <span class="date_text">01-30-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:15 PM</span></p>

[diamondma]

<div><span><blockquote><div>The only time Bruiser DPS gets into the 700 range is on very short fights, ie 20 secs where combat arts are spammed.  Where jousting is required DPS is usually in the 200s.</div><p>Message Edited by lagerone on <span class="date_text">01-30-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:15 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>just depends on the buffs and procs honestly. i can usually do 400 flat just auto attacking on yellows with the right buffs. with the right group and debuffs my auto hits pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hard. my problem is pulling agro since we are tanks we dont have hate reducers which means insta agro for us, same thing with the bruiser in my guild although he usually pulls agro at alot lower dps think his burst dmg is whats doin it. im usually around 60-80% on dps buffs and 100% haste. buffs and debuffs ftw.the other thing u gotta remember is eveyone gets a set rythm for raiding everyone finds their comfortable spot for dps output just because they are parsing 400 doesnt mean they cant do more. most of the time im just sticking my def debuf on the mob and using storming palm. ask gaige or led how much they spam ca's on a raid that they arent tanking.</span></div>

[lagerone]

<div></div><p>Anything is possible.  Any combination of external buffs could increase your DPS,a nd with a certain combination of buffs I am sure you could do higher DPS.</p><p>Those are indicative non-tanking parses and would be close to full C/A spamming.  </p><p>In the world I live in, brawlers so DPS in the 200-450 range on most extended raid encounters depending on jousting conditions.  We have parses with scouts, wiz/war, conj/nec in the 700+ DPS range, no brawlers I'm afraid.  I think brawler DPS is pretty much where it was intended to be.</p>

[Mala-Shea]

<div></div><p> As long as your tank knows what they are doing and has master taunts, then a dirge and coercer in group for hate buffs, you can spam away! I do every raid and can not pull agro. Take one of those 2 away and it's not to hard. Raid dps is somewhat skewed. There are to many mitigating factors in raids....is there a  Brigand debuffing? To what degree the mob gets gimped will dictate how much dps you contribute. I usually avg. about 550 dps, but if my biggest hits have came when I've just followed up Dispatch. Highest parse so far has been 720dps on the Foreman purple monkey in Gates.</p><p>Slapp</p><p>60 Monk</p><p>Heroes Fate</p><p>Grobberfrost</p>

[Sslarrga]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p>A monk's DPS depends entirely on group makeup.</p><p>In the correct groups I use CA's to REDUCE my DPS as duelwielding with max haste I'll inevitably lose damage using roughly half of our CA's.  I suppose I could just cancel one of the haste buffs, but I like living on the edge.</p><p>In one of our recents raids my auto-attack ONLY DPS was averaging about 650ish.  This would often pull aggro from our MT with master1 taunts and master1 Hate increasing buffs.</p><p>Using only the high damage (700+ damage) CA's I could top 700ish fairly easily.  Using the Low Damage (500- DPS) I could easily drag my DPS down to around 450ish.  Granted most of my skills are Master1, however I still have about 8 or 9 ad3s.</p><p>However, throw me into a group that isn't optimized for melee/ranged DPS and my DPS will drop to around 350-450 on average using CA's.  Autoattack only will drop to around 300ish.</p><p>I do NOT consider us a DPS class as we have no means by which we can utilize maximum DPS.  Our Rangers generally average 1k+ dps.  Our rogues (if they are in that same group) can easily average 800-900 DPS without drawing aggro.</p><p>Conjurors and Necromancers can also easily average 700+ DPS.</p><p>I do feel sorry for Wizards and Warlocks though.  They seem to draw an inordinate amount of aggro at relatively low DPS numbers.  I imagine this is from their long recast high spike damage spells.</p><p>I can't comment how I am versus our guild Bruiser as he took and extended break and only just started raiding again.  IE - he's still using T6 rare crafted weapons.</p><p>However, what a poster above said is true.  Both a Monk and a Bruiser should be able to easily hit 700+ DPS in the right group over the duration of a fight.  However, neither of them will be able to stay over 700+ DPS if they want to avoid drawing aggro off the MT.</p><p>I use 600-650ish DPS as a relatively safe spot for non-aggro DPS.  In the case where the MT might get a couple resists on his Taunts or just the vagaries of luck, I can always FD.  Unfortunately this has the side effect of usually killing the Ranger who is right behind me on the hate list.  Usually around 1.1k+ DPS.</p><p>Regards,</p><p>Croaker</p><p>60 Monk, (soon to be deceased Grobb Server) Death's Door guild.</p><p>EDIT - Highest average DPS so far was 859 on named yellow cons in Courts of Al'Afaz.  Tsunami is your friend.</p><p>Message Edited by Sslarrga on <span class="date_text">02-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:24 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Sslarrga on <span class="date_text">02-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:25 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Sslarrga on <span class="date_text">02-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:27 AM</span></p>

[Vorham]

lots of mobs in alfaz are crushing immune and lots of bruiser arts are crushing dmg only for some reason... if you're gonna show a parse from al'afaz then name the mob... could be the mob was immune to crush and poor bruiser was forced to switch to player crafted weaps and without a few of his big hit arts<div></div>

[Sslarrga]

<div></div><div>That parse was done a long time ago when I still felt a need to try to do a little chest thumping.  You'll note that similar to bruisers, monks also deal crushing damage as their main form of damage.  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>The highest I've done recently is close to 800 on Goliathan in SC.  Most of that was autoattack damage only.  And I was NOT trying to get high DPS.  It was just a consequence of group makeup and not paying attention.  I will generally do whatever I can to stay in the 600-650 DPS range, using CAs to either increase or decrease my DPS unless there's a serious need to burn something down.</div><div> </div><div>As a monk, once you get to around 600+ DPS roughly half or more of your combat arts will reduce your DPS rather than increase it.</div><div> </div><div>Even at lower DPS numbers, certain CA's will generally lower your DPS as you have a very good chance of losing 1 or 2 autoattacks during the cast time for the CA.</div><div> </div><div>I imagine it's easier for bruisers to time their CA's as they probably aren't always at the haste cap.</div><div> </div><div>Regards,</div><div>Croaker</div><div> </div><div>60 Monk, (soon to be deceased Grobb server) Death's Door Guild.</div><p>Message Edited by Sslarrga on <span class="date_text">02-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:29 AM</span></p>

[TwistedChass]

I'm a level 34 monk and today I dueled a 35 Bruiser.Within a matter of seconds the Bruiser dealed damage dropping me to about 1/4 of health, while he had about 3/4 left. Then I dropped my Darting sparrow, and Grappling bear and bam, I win.<div></div>

[Owa]

<div><font size="2">I've never grouped with a Monk that outdamaged me. Never. And I've never lost a duel to one either.</font></div><div><font size="2"></font> </div><div><font size="2">This could be because my Bruiser is set up to do maximum DPS though at a cost of tanking.*</font></div><div><font size="2"></font> </div><div><font size="2">Owain - 9th Best Bruiser on Lucan</font></div><div><font size="2"></font> </div><div><font size="2"></font> </div><div><font size="1">*Also 'cause I only duel lvl 20 Monks.</font></div>

1 of the better equiped monks vs. one of the better equiped bruisers in same group same mobs, bruiser out dps's most of the time. Somtimes its even, sometimes monk will be a little higher..but overall bruisers are higher dps....yes<div></div>

[diamondma]

meh ultimately the dmg difference isnt that big and it switches per mob usually. everyone wants to think that they are uber when generally they arent . anyone that says "omg im so uber ive never had a monk out dps me means that they have never seen a good monk. when it comes down to it both classes do aprox the same dps.in raids brawlers do the same amount of dps because ur tank can only generate soo much agro like i said before.<div></div>

[Owa]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>diamondmage wrote:meh ultimately the dmg difference isnt that big and it switches per mob usually. everyone wants to think that they are uber when generally they arent . anyone that says "omg im so uber ive never had a monk out dps me means that they have never seen a good monk. when it comes down to it both classes do aprox the same dps.in raids brawlers do the same amount of dps because ur tank can only generate soo much agro like i said before.<div></div><hr></blockquote><font size="2">Thanks for completely missing the irony.</font>

[diamondma]

what irony i never said that i was better or did more dps read what i wrote before postin kthnx.<div></div>

[Owa]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>diamondmage wrote:what irony i never said that i was better or did more dps read what i wrote before postin kthnx.<div></div><hr></blockquote>You do know what irony is, right?

[diamondma]

yup but there is none there =P i can see how u might think that if u were just skimmin the post but if ya read it theres nada.<div></div>

[Owa]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>diamondmage wrote:yup but there is none there =P i can see how u might think that if u were just skimmin the post but if ya read it theres nada.<div></div><hr></blockquote>That's what happens when I stay up past my bedtime. :smileysad: