Gi of the Dark Disciple

[Dfoley3]

So your pumped, your guild just cleared GoAA and you got the Gi of dark disciples to drop woot! Then you go to inspect it, and you find that its stats are sub par.  Gi20 str12 agi12 sta90 hp 80 power671 disease61 vs pericing4 crushingI guess its in line with the curias of the djinn stat and resist wise, but for the boss mob of a zone to drop the same loot as the common dorp of a rediculously easy mob in another zone?My real beef is the resist, 671 to one resist, the Coat of the Dark league  has 549 to two resist (dis and magic) and thats a common legendary drop from all trash assassins in gates.   Every other piece of this suit has 2 resists 500+ :-/Also the whole suit of Dark Disciple isnt fabled, nor is the whole suit brawler only.  I think the tunic, boots, and forarms are and the rest is usable by all leather +  seems like a bit of an over site that  3 pieces of a suit are brawler only fabled and the rest are legendary usable by all.<div></div>

[Rrawl]

<div>it has two resists... one is piercing...</div>

[DarkerApprenti]

<div></div><div></div>I agree that the entire line of Dark Disciple gear isn't fabled and perhaps should be but, there are alternatives. Where the Dark Disciple skullcap is legendary, we have the option of the fabled Skullcap of All Seeing which is brawler only. I'm sure there are other pieces that are fabled brawler only that replace the legendary Dark Disciple gear, perhaps some not yet discovered. Just a thought. Cheers.<p>Message Edited by DarkerApprentice on <span class="date_text">01-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:17 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by DarkerApprentice on <span class="date_text">01-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:23 PM</span></p>

[diamondma]

how is it sub par? its got rediculous stats on it lots of hp lots of pwr +crush which is huge and very nice mit.<div></div>

[Gaige]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dfoley323 wrote:So your pumped, your guild just cleared GoAA and you got the Gi of dark disciples to drop woot! Then you go to inspect it, and you find that its stats are sub par.  Gi20 str12 agi12 sta90 hp 80 power671 disease61 vs pericing4 crushingI guess its in line with the curias of the djinn stat and resist wise, but for the boss mob of a zone to drop the same loot as the common dorp of a rediculously easy mob in another zone?My real beef is the resist, 671 to one resist, the Coat of the Dark league  has 549 to two resist (dis and magic) and thats a common legendary drop from all trash assassins in gates.   Every other piece of this suit has 2 resists 500+ :-/Also the whole suit of Dark Disciple isnt fabled, nor is the whole suit brawler only.  I think the tunic, boots, and forarms are and the rest is usable by all leather +  seems like a bit of an over site that  3 pieces of a suit are brawler only fabled and the rest are legendary usable by all.<hr></blockquote><p>1) If you think its underpowered now, you'd have hated it before it got upgraded.  It also has +4 crushing and 61 vs piercing... I think its fine honestly.  Maybe the resists are off a bit but /shrug.</p><p>2) I imagine all DD stuff was meant to be fabled, but got mislabeled.  As the difference between fabled/legendary is minor they didn't change it.  Same with being brawler only; probably just mistagged and they didn't feel it was necessary to change it.</p>

[Siberia2]

I think it needs a proc, personally.. <span>:smileytongue:</span><div></div>

[diamondma]

not very many bps in dof have procs honestly. dof gear is mostly about stats, resists, and +skills. there arent a whole lot of items with procs and specials other than regen<div></div>

[-Llama-]

<div>I.E. DoF development team must have skipped their Procs 101 class for the year. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Siberia2]

Regen I FTW!!But yeah, there's definatly a lack of creativity..Back on the subject of the OP, It's stats are fine, but don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind it being a bit more upgraded! <span>:smileytongue:</span><div></div>

[Reposa]

It owns.  No one can complain about that Gi.  Know why?  Because it's all we have as far as a T6 Fabled BP.  I'd imagine if there were 2-3 more (like plate tanks get), then it'd be in all of our bags ('cept mine and gaiges) while we're using something 10x better.<div></div>

[Gaige]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Reposado wrote:It owns.  No one can complain about that Gi.  Know why?  Because it's all we have as far as a T6 Fabled BP.  I'd imagine if there were 2-3 more (like plate tanks get), then it'd be in all of our bags <font color="#ffff00">('cept mine and gaiges)</font> while we're using something 10x better.<hr></blockquote>Don't remind me ;P

[Ili]

<div></div><p>I'm so gonna beat Gaige to a Purple Gi. :smileysurprised:</p><p>-Ilina</p>

[diamondma]

im just gonna laugh when my girl's alt gets one before gaige and led.<div></div>

[Dfoley3]

<div></div>honestly u cant count pericing as a resist on it.  Cuirass of the Djinn has 60 to all mitigation resists  and 720 to magic.   From my guilds experiance if it doesnt say + mitigation on it and it has + save vs crushing etc, then it is divided by 3.   So cuirass of the djinn adds 60 bonus mitigation.   The mob it drops from is also retardedly easy and pick up raids are capable of aquiring it.Gi of the dark disciple has + 61 vs one mitigation type (aka 20 mitg added) and  671 vs one resist.   These two items come from different mobs entirely.  One is aquirable by pick up raids the other is limited to a minute amount of guild per server capable of clearing GoAA.Total statsGi: 46Djinn: 48Hp/PowGi: 170Djinn: 140Resist (cause yall include mitigation bonus)gi: 732 ( 691)djinn: 900(adds 780)AdditionalGi: + crushingdjinn: noneSo you can see there are only 2 areas where a gi from a boss mob from a zone is better then the top guardian usable chest plate found atm from a rediculously easy mob.   Djinn gets more total stats and resists, gi gets a bonus modifier and more hp/pow.   The issue was the quality of the item from the boss of a zone vs the quality of an item from a mob pick up raids get.  Hell look at benfaths head gear from the second real named in GoAA and youll see the disparity in Plate vs Leather itemization. :-/Fyi its purple cause thats one of the highest rank of monks in eq1, i think the only thing higher is black.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Dfoley323 on <span class="date_text">01-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:00 AM</span></p>

[diamondma]

<div></div>the +crushing is huge i dont think ur understanding that. i agree that its not uber but then again most of the bps in the game yes even plate arent. the only really nice bp ive seen in the game is a rogue bp called nightfall coat of the scoundrel that adds +9 piercing.<div></div><p>Message Edited by diamondmage on <span class="date_text">01-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:50 AM</span></p>

[nobunaga_x]

<div></div><div></div><p>Is this Gi tradeable or no trade?</p><p> </p><p>Got me the Breeches of Solitude last night, I feel so cool...</p><p>Message Edited by nobunaga_x on <span class="date_text">01-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:57 AM</span></p>

[Gaige]

<div></div><div>Its no-trade, but don't worry it hardly ever drops anyway lolz <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Dfoley3]

<div></div>Its no trade, drops from the sphyinx boss in the back of court 4 in GoAA.   I got the legs to , still looking for the pants of the dark disciple, im guessing they drop from the mummy in court 2 who likes to wtfpwn people with his 19 aes (mem whipe, armor melt, flux + knock back, and the abilty to make those mages who stay back whipe raids!)   The mummys beatable, but the fact hes a bigger pain/ harder then the boss mob of the zone is sad :-/Gaige lies! it drops all the time =/ There are 4-5 on my server atm.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Dfoley323 on <span class="date_text">01-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:04 PM</span></p>

[nobunaga_x]

<div>Aww man don't make a monk cry like  that.  What amount of raid force is needed to take this guy out?  It will prolly be a while till I even have a crack at him, fire and ice is up next.</div>

[Gaige]

<div></div>AFAIK there are no pants of the Dark Disciple or Bracers of the Dark Disciple.

[Devolux]

I think responable stats for the Gi should be:20 Str, AGI, STA60 to Pierce, Crush, Slash700ish to 2 resists (Please not mental!!)300 ish mit.ALSO - the fact that there is only 1 GI in all of t6 worth wearing is silly.  How may  Fabled Plate BPs are there?<div></div>

[Dfoley3]

The mob it drops from requires you to clear about 3 hours (if your guild is fast).  Once near the boss special actions must be taken in zone to awaken the appropreate version of the boss, not to mention just to beat him your guild will probably waste the first attempt on the instance due to not zoning in with adaquet supplies.But assuming you get around all the BS surrounding him, the fight itself is very fast and relativly easy.  If your guild can kill sunchild or barakah/simyakh in maj dul then it should be do able.  Its the pre reqs to the fight that are dificult.As Far as stats on the gi,  i think the current mitg/hp on it are fine, as well as the + crushing.   IDK about 700 to two resists, but atleast two resist above 500 would be nice, and 60 to all mitigation would surely be in line with the cuirass of the djinn which has the same.  20 to the three stats would be nice but 20 str 15sta/agi would be jsut as good.<div></div>

[Gaige]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Devolux wrote:I think responable stats for the Gi should be:20 Str, AGI, STA60 to Pierce, Crush, Slash700ish to 2 resists (Please not mental!!)300 ish mit.<hr></blockquote><p>/rofl</p><p>...</p>

[KamienWolf]

<div>I am just simply shocked that people would complain about any of the pieces in the dark disciple armor line.  The stats on the bp in question are solid, better then anything else we could get our hands on, significantly.  Would it be nice if it was better? hell yeah, but I would think every class thinks that way about half their items.  Its better then my crafted legendary bp and if I get the opportunity of getting my hadns on one I would never complain about it.</div><div> </div><div>I jsut shake my head seeing people complain an item of this calibre isnt good enough.</div>

[x0rtrun]

As rediculous as you think it is to complain, the truth is itemization isn't perfect. Items are routinely adjusted upwards and downwards because they didn't get it right the first time. Usually because they couldn't completely forsee the level of dificulty in obtaining said item, or the relative value of the item compared to others of its kind.When you consider that it's our <i>ONLY</i> T6 fabled BP and how much trouble is involved in obtaining it, the stats do seem a little subpar compared to what is available for plate tanks.Once again, where's the leather love?<div></div>

[KamienWolf]

<div></div><p>I dont necessarily agree with that statement, I have seen most of the armor pieces that plate tanks can wear, and yes some are better, but only marginally.  Yes, this is the only tier6 fabled bp that I am aware of too, but just because its the only one doesnt mean it should have god like stats.  The instance Gates once tactics have been figured out and raid make-up isnt the most difficult zone in the game.  It requires co-ordination and a lot of work, but it has the potential of provinding a raid force with a lot of good loot too.</p><p>My point is simple, the bp is good, good enough for tier 6 fabled standards, one of the best out there comparing to other tier 6 fabled bps.  I respect your opionion of course, I understand where you are coming from, I just hold on to my opinion.</p>

[x0rtrun]

<div></div>well, i don't think it should have god like stats either, but I do think they could do with a second look though.what I wanted to point out however, is that stats aren't always the way they intend them to be and are subject to change. so complaining about them isn't completely off base.<div></div><p>Message Edited by x0rtrunks on <span class="date_text">01-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:29 PM</span></p>

[KamienWolf]

<div></div>true that might be the case.

[Gaige]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>x0rtrunks wrote:As rediculous as you think it is to complain, the truth is itemization isn't perfect. Items are routinely adjusted upwards and downwards because they didn't get it right the first time. Usually because they couldn't completely forsee the level of dificulty in obtaining said item, or the relative value of the item compared to others of its kind.When you consider that it's our <i>ONLY</i> T6 fabled BP and how much trouble is involved in obtaining it, the stats do seem a little subpar compared to what is available for plate tanks.Once again, where's the leather love?<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Really?  It drops off the easiest raid mob in the entire zone.  Aside from bringing some fuel with you, that's about that.  Its also already been upgraded once, to appropriate stats.</p><p>Its fine.</p><p>What does suck is that its the only viable bp slot upgrade, but there is nothing wrong with the gi itself.</p>

[diamondma]

nah the vamp is the easiest named in the zone =P rhoen can be tuff if u dun know what u are doing. if u do know then he's pretty easy.<div></div>

[Dfoley3]

Hes no black queen thats for sure, but if you think the bp is fine your a foul.Plate get multiple suits of armor:aITEM -371000345 -1194940098:Champion's Vanguard Cuirass/a - From x2 in CleftsaITEM -114319803 335850181:Cuirass of the Djinn/a   - from a mob so easy pick up raids farm itaITEM 1964765201 244535533:Tarantula Carapace/a  - from terrorantula and geting its mitigation uped to 460saITEM -2097878862 -469471127:Cuirass of the Daywalker/a    -simyak/barakahalso theres supposed to be a Bp of carnage and a cold forged bp....thats 6 raid quality bps.....the later of which (if they match the other items in the suit) will have 671 to two resists with modifiers on emThe only other fabled peice of dark disciple gear is the shoulders, and they have  2 resists 500+  and + 5 deflection (which imho is 10x more powerful then + crushing)As for it being fine, i think youd be insane to think its fine.   aITEM -725241510 -1684571423:Cryptic Reinforced Tunic/a        bar none the best t5 bp, from a daily instance with 2 procs and stats compareable to t6 raid gearwith total resists being only slightly less.<div></div>

[Gaige]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>Dfoley323 wrote:</p><p>The only other fabled peice of dark disciple gear is the shoulders, and they have  2 resists 500+  and + 5 deflection (which imho is 10x more powerful then + crushing)</p><hr></blockquote>I disagree, I'd rather have crushing than deflection, especially against orange mobs.

[Mala-Shea]

<div></div><p>I have a hard time discerning what I would rather have. The + crush is nice, but the deflection makes a HUGE diff. too. Noticed quite a diff. in tanking when I got my SotDD, but + crush on orange mobs is da' bomb for dps. I just hate the fact that it is the only fabled T6 GI in the game. Hel1 even T5 has 2. The only other T6 GI's are absolutely craptastic and give no monk any reason to wear them except for look....that 95% of us desire. Why not maybe have a legendary GI somewhere too?</p><p> </p><p>The stats on the GIof DD do seem lacking imo comparing them to plate bp's. Not horrible by any stretch, but one more resist would be nice and maybe a proc? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] they hate us leather wearers :/    !!!!!</p><p> </p><p>Slapp</p><p>60 Monk</p><p>Heroes Fate</p><p>Grobb</p>

[Dfoley3]

+ crush is lame, theres a few ways to get more of it.  wardens adds 39 ishguardians and templars add 15ish,bards add itIts super easy to get to 380+ crushing atm, however no class adds deflection so imho ill take deflectionGet ur offensive stance master 1 and group with any 1 of those classes and youll be able to hit orange mobs no problem.<div></div>

[diamondma]

how is being able to hit a mob lame? i'd rather be able to hit orange mobs and hold agro than to have 4 deflection which does very little on orange cons.<div></div>

[Dfoley3]

+crushing is fine but monks are sub par dps so hit or not doesnt really matter on raid mobs.  any raid with multiple monks really is wasting spots for people who could easily be doing 300-600 dps more then us.  So take your +4 crushing and realize its the difference between a 10% hit rate on 65s and a 12% hit rate.<div></div>

[diamondma]

<span><blockquote><hr>Dfoley323 wrote:+crushing is fine but monks are sub par dps so hit or not doesnt really matter on raid mobs.  any raid with multiple monks really is wasting spots for people who could easily be doing 300-600 dps more then us.  So take your +4 crushing and realize its the difference between a 10% hit rate on 65s and a 12% hit rate.<div></div><hr></blockquote>who said anything about dps'ing or being on raids with multiple monks? im speaking from a tanking perspective, i would rather be able to hit a mob and hold agro over 1% avoidance. i could care less wether or not we are sub par dps what we are is tanks and to tank effectively u have to be able to maintain agro, which for us means being able to hit the mob. ;p</span><div></div>

[Owa]

<div><font size="2">The way I look at it is that Guardians think their class is horrible but they get better and more varied loot than Brawlers. We think our classes are fine but we get shafted on the nice gear. Swings and roundabouts, six and two threes etc etc.</font></div><div><font size="2"></font> </div><div><font size="2">Actually this doesn't take Zerkers into account does it? They like their class and get good loot. Um...I'm going to stop here. Sorry.</font></div>

[Dfoley3]

<div></div><p>O i love tanking, dont get me wrong, but in exp groups you hardly ever find ur self exping on oranges, and on yellows you can easily just stay in offensive stance and never lose agro nor have to worry about taking to much dmg.   Offensive stance alone is more then enough + crushing to to keep ur hits high enough to hold agro.   However relying on dps to hold agro is a flaw that most guardians can tell you flat out isnt needed. </p><p>Raid tank guards do about 100-250 dps, hell if the mobs is hard enough they turn attack off and just use 4 taunts and lots of buffs.   Most main tank guards dont even use haste because of reposte dmg.    Master 1 skills for agro managment are far more useful then + crushing in an exp group.  And face itmonks will never tank as efficently as mitigation tanks, so using + crushing as a standpoint for holding agro on raid mobs is flawed.  </p><p> </p><p>In exp groups, u can hold agro with high dps and no taunts, or with low dps and high taunts, how you acheive the high dps or high agro varies group to group but it doesnt always net to high power usage.  I have full legendary/t6 fabled thus using my offensive stance to tank is a viable option for me.  Defensive stance is reserved for mobs such as the lvl 65 named in poets palace.  Even then i can usualy get by using offensive stance and our 30 sec mitigation buff.</p><p>In raids monks can do mediocer dps, pull with tsunami, cast a saving mend every 5 min or if they are brave, can intercept a fatal blow from the main tank.  + crushing on raids means very little cause any smart raid leader will set up a raid with groups that can incorperate appropreate buffs to the correct classes insuring you dont have awesome melee buffs on a group of casters. </p><p> </p><p>+ crushing really only benifts people who dont adept 3 their skills, people with sub legendary gear and thus cant tank in offensive stance, and people who group with others who have sub par gear/skills.  +4-5 crushing will not ever be the difference between hitting a mob and missing it.  It most likely adds 3-4% to hit mobs which in my book is lame and i would take the + deflection over it any day.  Unlike mitigation, if gear isnt chosen properly you dont just gain avoidance from going from legendary to fabled.</p>

[diamondma]

<span><blockquote><hr>Dfoley323 wrote:<div></div><p>O i love tanking, dont get me wrong, but in exp groups you hardly ever find ur self exping on oranges, and on yellows you can easily just stay in offensive stance and never lose agro nor have to worry about taking to much dmg.   Offensive stance alone is more then enough + crushing to to keep ur hits high enough to hold agro.   However relying on dps to hold agro is a flaw that most guardians can tell you flat out isnt needed.  <font color="#ffff00">we arent guardians we hold agro by hitting mobs mainly due to our hate proc from storm stance. once again we arent guardians.</font></p><p>Raid tank guards do about 100-250 dps, hell if the mobs is hard enough they turn attack off and just use 4 taunts and lots of buffs.   Most main tank guards dont even use haste because of reposte dmg.    Master 1 skills for agro managment are far more useful then + crushing in an exp group.  And face itmonks will never tank as efficently as mitigation tanks, so using + crushing as a standpoint for holding agro on raid mobs is flawed.  <font color="#ffff00">we arent guardians but yes we can tank just as well if not better on some mobs. im not sure how u came to this conclusion but i doubt its from experience.</font></p><p>In exp groups, u can hold agro with high dps and no taunts, or with low dps and high taunts, how you acheive the high dps or high agro varies group to group but it doesnt always net to high power usage.  I have full legendary/t6 fabled thus using my offensive stance to tank is a viable option for me.  Defensive stance is reserved for mobs such as the lvl 65 named in poets palace.  Even then i can usualy get by using offensive stance and our 30 sec mitigation buff.<font color="#ffff00">thats wonderful but really says nothing other than u use off stance on mobs sometimes....why? im guessing so u can hit them ;p</font></p><p>In raids monks can do mediocer dps, pull with tsunami, cast a saving mend every 5 min or if they are brave, can intercept a fatal blow from the main tank.  + crushing on raids means very little cause any smart raid leader will set up a raid with groups that can incorperate appropreate buffs to the correct classes insuring you dont have awesome melee buffs on a group of casters.   <font color="#ffff00">once again i dont know where u came up with this but i doubt its from experience.</font></p><p> </p><p>+ crushing really only benifts people who dont adept 3 their skills, people with sub legendary gear and thus cant tank in offensive stance, and people who group with others who have sub par gear/skills.  +4-5 crushing will not ever be the difference between hitting a mob and missing it.  It most likely adds 3-4% to hit mobs which in my book is lame and i would take the + deflection over it any day.  Unlike mitigation, if gear isnt chosen properly you dont just gain avoidance from going from legendary to fabled.   <font color="#ffff00">how do you figure that? try hitting an orange mob in def stance and tell me how many times you miss. each time you miss is one more chance lost to taunt the mob and do dps. there really isnt a whole lot of choices in t6 gear so i dont know what u mean by u dont gain avoidance if u dont choose ur gear properly. im sorry but i'd much rather the gear i have now over t6 crafted. </font></p><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Gaige]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dfoley323 wrote:+crushing is fine but monks are sub par dps so hit or not doesnt really matter on raid mobs.  any raid with multiple monks really is wasting spots for people who could easily be doing 300-600 dps more then us.  So take your +4 crushing and realize its the difference between a 10% hit rate on 65s and a 12% hit rate.<hr></blockquote>Good thing I'm tanking on a lot of raids I attend then, eh?

[Dreg]

<div></div>Anybody have a screenshot of what Gi of the Dark Disciple looks like equiped?  Hoping its not like Gi of Madness with no shirt....cant count the times a day people ask me why I'm not wearing any gear.Edit: Nevermind, lol, for some reason the pictures and sig's took allot longer to load then usual.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Dregue on <span class="date_text">01-30-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:00 AM</span></p>