Royal great Flail / T6 rare Bo / 2X T6 rare fighting Baton

[Karamonde]

Hi all, i just come bakc in the game after a few months, im currently using A royal GreatFlail witch was great when i left, but now rare T6 imbued are around and a quick look at broker saw me that the bo staff witch some poeple say its great on the forum, is actually  anice upgrade to my dps, i saw it as a 62.X dps while my RFG is in the 50ish, same for fighting baton, i have a prismatick baton but still the T6 ones looks appealing, so are those T6 rare imbued weapon worth it ? Thx in advance : ) <div></div>

[Cyngii]

<DIV>I can't really compare the RGF to the T6 rare weapons since i never had the RGF, but you rarely see post level 50 monks using any pre Desert of Flames weapons.  Post combat revamp the benefits of using the high damage/high delay weapon isn't really there, and even if there is a benefit you'de be better off with the T6 rare great mace.  I got the Bo and loved it.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as the dual wielders go, I have seen a lot of people running around with the prismatic baton + a T6 rare dual wielder.  I'm not sure if you gain much from replacing the prismatic with a T6 rare weapon... I would almost say hold off til you could replace it with either a dropped legendary/fabled T6 weapon or replace it with Prismatic 2.0 (aka Peacock Quest reward).</DIV>

[Lintr]

Even though i have a T6 Fabled weapon, and a couple T6 Crafted Legendary, i still carry around my RGF because i simply Love the proc.  I always use the RGF in duels.<div></div>

[diamondma]

<div></div>i honestly dont use my rgf anymore its nice but it just doesnt do the dmg that t6 dw'rs do now. they decreased the riposte and increased the proc rate on dw'rs so they are just too good now. on raids i hit for anywhere from 200-500x2/sec + procs it just gets nasty.<div></div><p>Message Edited by diamondmage on <span class="date_text">01-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:34 AM</span></p>

[FelthLightbring]

<div></div>Yea, I'm with Sag on this one. The RGF is a novel lil weapon to have now, but with the change to the dw's you just can beat them.  Carry the RGF to have some fun, but dual wield for some sick damage.

[diamondma]

omg shide that sig is priceless i bout fell out my chair when i saw it.<div></div>

[MadBarman]

I have just started using the RGF at lvl 60. It wont hit the tier 6 raid mobs obviously and maybe some of the named heroic but I have some tier 6 duel wield weapons for them.With the change to applied procs only working off the primary hand I find the RGF is great for tanking with the long delay. Although I do hope to get an imbued cobalt 2-hander soon.Which reminds me, what is the slowest crafted 2handed weapon available? I think it's the great mace (2.5secs?) but I'm not sure.<div></div>

[Lintr]

RGF Does hit T6 Raid mobs, just not ones immune to Crushing.<div></div>

[-Llama-]

<div>With the changes to procs, All weapon types (2h 1h and DW) proc evenly now. So really its just a matter of flavor. An Imbued Cobalt Great Mace will be on the same damage par as 2 imbued DWs.</div>

[FelthLightbring]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>diamondmage wrote:omg shide that sig is priceless i bout fell out my chair when i saw it.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Well I figured I finally hit 60 so I needed to Spice the sig up a bit  :smileywink:

[-Llama-]

<div>I prefer the Playmobil monk. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Nacire]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>-Llama- wrote:<div>With the changes to procs, All weapon types (2h 1h and DW) proc evenly now. So really its just a matter of flavor. An Imbued Cobalt Great Mace will be on the same damage par as 2 imbued DWs.</div><hr></blockquote><p>Almost everyone I talk to has made this incorrect assumption from the dual wield changes a few patches ago.  But it is just an assumpition and it is INCORRECT.  They lessened the gap quite a bit, but the gap still remains.</p><p>As far as procs go there previously was a bug ONLY with imbued dual wielders that having 2 of them would proc LESS than only equipping one dual wield imbued, and this was fixed, hence their supposed "tweak" to dual wield procs, anyone that had only one imbued + one fabled or legendary weapon with proc would have noticed no change in dual wield proc rates.</p><p>As for the choice now being one of flavor, well now it's less of a penalty to choose non-optimal weapons but there still are "optimal" ones to choose.  Slower still equals better when faced with same damage rating and proc on 2 differing weapons.  Slower weapons still have higher chance per swing to proc, so while if you ONLY ever use autoattack (preists and mages fit here) the procs would be the same as the slower swings less, the moment you use any skill with a cast time you lose more swings with the faster weapon than you would with the slower AND if you are using combat arts that sneak hits in between autoattacks that aren't figured on delay those still have the same chance per swing as you would autoattacking bringing the higher delay WAY out in front on procs.</p><p>I'm not parotting something I read or ASSUMED here either, my monk tested it quite a bit after changes cause I'm a proc junkie.  I tested my RGF versus Staff of the Boar, same 12% chance proc (Ancient Glyph of Flame) on both weapons, one is 2.1 delay (staff) other is 3.8 (RGF) and the flail procs MUCH MUCH more than the staff and does it consistently.  And even without the procs it's at LEAST half again the dps of the staff even though both have same dps rating as I can get a lot more arts in between it's normal swings so missed swings are less of an issue.</p>

[MadBarman]

Something else to remember with the RGF or other fabled weapons with procs is that their effects proc on a successful attack inc. your combat arts. A standard imbued weapon only proc on a successful auto attack.<div></div>

[-Llama-]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Nacireen wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>-Llama- wrote:<div>With the changes to procs, All weapon types (2h 1h and DW) proc evenly now. So really its just a matter of flavor. An Imbued Cobalt Great Mace will be on the same damage par as 2 imbued DWs.</div><hr></blockquote><p>Almost everyone I talk to has made this incorrect assumption from the dual wield changes a few patches ago.  But it is just an assumpition and it is INCORRECT.  They lessened the gap quite a bit, but the gap still remains.</p><p>As far as procs go there previously was a bug ONLY with imbued dual wielders that having 2 of them would proc LESS than only equipping one dual wield imbued, and this was fixed, hence their supposed "tweak" to dual wield procs, anyone that had only one imbued + one fabled or legendary weapon with proc would have noticed no change in dual wield proc rates.</p><p>As for the choice now being one of flavor, well now it's less of a penalty to choose non-optimal weapons but there still are "optimal" ones to choose.  Slower still equals better when faced with same damage rating and proc on 2 differing weapons.  Slower weapons still have higher chance per swing to proc, so while if you ONLY ever use autoattack (preists and mages fit here) the procs would be the same as the slower swings less, the moment you use any skill with a cast time you lose more swings with the faster weapon than you would with the slower AND if you are using combat arts that sneak hits in between autoattacks that aren't figured on delay those still have the same chance per swing as you would autoattacking bringing the higher delay WAY out in front on procs.</p><p>I'm not parotting something I read or ASSUMED here either, my monk tested it quite a bit after changes cause I'm a proc junkie.  I tested my RGF versus Staff of the Boar, same 12% chance proc (Ancient Glyph of Flame) on both weapons, one is 2.1 delay (staff) other is 3.8 (RGF) and the flail procs MUCH MUCH more than the staff and does it consistently.  And even without the procs it's at LEAST half again the dps of the staff even though both have same dps rating as I can get a lot more arts in between it's normal swings so missed swings are less of an issue.</p><hr></blockquote>You are also comparing 2h to 2h. DW,1h, and  2h dps has been evened out with the "poison nerf" if you read moorgards post.

[Nacire]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>-Llama- wrote:<div></div>You are also comparing 2h to 2h. DW,1h, and  2h dps has been evened out with the "poison nerf" if you read moorgards post.<hr></blockquote>In the first part I mentioned that the only real proc change in dual wield's favor was the fix to 2x imbued weps no longer LOWERING proc rate versus a single imbued weapon.  When they first improved dual wield I parsed many fights looking to see how it had improved and found ZERO change for my setup with one fabled dual wield with proc and one imbued.  Everyone I talked to with imbued weapons said the change was very apparent, as well it should be since before you ended up with around a 3% chance to proc rather than 5% if you used 2 imbued weapons.  So that bug was fixed but dual wield procs in general never went up.  Now with the nerf to procing buffs only firing from main hand you have an even wider gap between 2h and dual wield.

[diamondma]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>ok parsed it today 5 fights per weapon against 48^^^'s with aprox 15k hp. this was in off stance and 100% haste2h rgf   avg 189.982h bo   avg 190.862h greatmace   avg 195.26dw qstaves   avg 229.78dw cestii   avg 240.48dw maces   avg 242.54so now what was that about 2handers being even with dual wielders? for what i see there is a huge gap there of 30 dps minimum and 50 dps maximum on avgs the high for a 2h weap was 205dps whereas the high for a dw weap was 280dps. argue all you want that 2handers are the way to go but u just cant argue facts, they are neither close nor even.<p>and i managed to do all this while cookin lunch. can i have a cookie?<span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by diamondmage on <span class="date_text">01-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:02 AM</span></p>

[Gaige]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr>Nacireen wrote:<p>And even without the procs it's at LEAST half again the dps of the staff even though both have same dps rating as I can get a lot more arts in between it's normal swings so missed swings are less of an issue.</p><hr></blockquote><p>They changed that so please don't spread false information.</p><p>There is nothing in this world that would make me use 2H over DW now, you lose too many stats and damage to even consider it.</p>

[FelthLightbring]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>diamondmage wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div>ok parsed it today 5 fights per weapon against 48^^^'s with aprox 15k hp. this was in off stance and 100% haste2h rgf   avg 189.982h bo   avg 190.862h greatmace   avg 195.26dw qstaves   avg 229.78dw cestii   avg 240.48<strong>dw maces   avg 242.54</strong>so now what was that about 2handers being even with dual wielders? for what i see there is a huge gap there of 30 dps minimum and 50 dps maximum on avgs the high for a 2h weap was 205dps whereas the high for a dw weap was 280dps. argue all you want that 2handers are the way to go but u just cant argue facts, they are neither close nor even.<p>and i managed to do all this while cookin lunch. can i have a cookie?<span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by diamondmage on <span class="date_text">01-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:02 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Just curious, which maces are we speaking of?

[Nacire]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr>Nacireen wrote:<p>And even without the procs it's at LEAST half again the dps of the staff even though both have same dps rating as I can get a lot more arts in between it's normal swings so missed swings are less of an issue.</p><hr></blockquote><p>They changed that so please don't spread false information.</p><p>There is nothing in this world that would make me use 2H over DW now, you lose too many stats and damage to even consider it.</p><hr></blockquote>Might wanna actually read things before making comments, the part you cut was me comparing two different TWOHAND weapons with same proc and dps ratings and was about the effect of the higher delay weapon winning in dps.  Same would hold true for dual wield weapons.  Higher delay with same dps rating would net higher actual dps.

[Nacire]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>diamondmage wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div>ok parsed it today 5 fights per weapon against 48^^^'s with aprox 15k hp. this was in off stance and 100% haste2h rgf   avg 189.982h bo   avg 190.862h greatmace   avg 195.26dw qstaves   avg 229.78dw cestii   avg 240.48dw maces   avg 242.54so now what was that about 2handers being even with dual wielders? for what i see there is a huge gap there of 30 dps minimum and 50 dps maximum on avgs the high for a 2h weap was 205dps whereas the high for a dw weap was 280dps. argue all you want that 2handers are the way to go but u just cant argue facts, they are neither close nor even.<p>and i managed to do all this while cookin lunch. can i have a cookie?<span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by diamondmage on <span class="date_text">01-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:02 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>First let me thank you for taking the time to both test and post this. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  When I did the tests on my monk he wasn't in t6 yet so was using the rgf versus other t5 weps, and versus same tier the rgf won hands down.  By a much larger margin than here.  However it seems the higher damge of t6 weps will more than make up for the lack of any super delay weapons and I didn't realize that.  Now that he's 58 and well able to do so I guess it's time to ditch the RGF or at least relegate it to backup.  Thanx for the info. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I would love to find a 3.0+ delay teir 6 wep to compare, but I think SOE realized just how badly the massive delay of RGF skewed their combat formulas and will not be putting any more of those super high delays in.  Unfortunate that it can't quite keep up with the next teir anymore.  /sigh</p>

[MadBarman]

Whats the weapon delay on maces?I know cestii are 2 sec and quarterstaffs are 1.8 iirc. From the dps averages the mace's delay is greater than 2secs?<div></div>

[Gaige]

<div></div>Maces = 1.9

[diamondma]

rgr 1.9 and they are pristine imbued cobalt maces.<div></div>

[Teleri]

<div></div><p>Correct me if I'm wrong but the nerf to procs to occur only on main hand was effects *applied* procs only.  ie poison and spell buffs.   I thought I remembered reading that procs that are part of the weapon like imbued weapons will proc from either hand.</p><p> </p><p>Telerial</p>

[MadBarman]

Yes Telerial, that is also my understanding of the proc system now.I had a quick look but couldn't find the post, but I'm sure Moorguard has stated this is the way it works.<div></div>