Brawler, or plate wearer?

[Morticai the third]

<DIV>To start off, THIS IS NOT A FLAME!! This is a poll/preferenece between bralers and plate wearing tanks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This question is, in a group, which would you rather have tanking for you? A brawler class, or plate wearing tank? And why?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In my personal preference, i want a plate wearer to tank for me, because im just used to it, and it makes me feel a little uncomfortable when brawlers have huge chunks of life taken away at a time. They are great at avoiding stuff, but when they get hit, they get hit hard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again, THIS IS NOT A FLAME!! I love brawlers. I've wanted to make one. This is just a question for everyone willing to answer <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, ignore the other pst, idk why it posted early lol</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Morticai the third on <SPAN class=date_text>01-02-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:07 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Morticai the third on <span class=date_text>01-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:38 PM</span>

[Quijonsith]

<DIV>In my experience as a templar I can say that I've had every tank class tank for me.  All i prefer is a skilled player at the helm.  Every tank has their ups and downs.  I lean towards brawlers tanking ever since the first time a good one tanked for me before lu13, however the other tanks have their advantages.  I usually see what tank I get and think "sweet, they bring xxx to the group".</DIV>

guardians, period.<div></div>

[Gaige]

Keegem or Me, period.

[Junaru]

Whoever has the best gear/skills tanks..I was in a group the other night with a Guardian 1 level higher then me and wanted to tank. Yet all my taunts are Master I and I had 300 more hps, 40% more avoidance and only 50 less mitigation, plus all my resists were higher. You tell me who you want to tank in that group?The days of plate wearing ruling over tanking are gone, now it's just a matter of who has the most cash or best luck on gear/skill looting.<div></div>

[-Llama-]

<P>I tank better on my swash than most plate tanks do.</P> <P> </P> <P>In a group of all 60s, Swash, Necro, Warden, Defilier,Warlock,Dirge, I had about 7.5k hps, 3k mit and 56% avoidance.I'm decked out in mostly t6 fabled armor, with a t6 fabled 1h and a zalak round shield. I can hold aggro on 4-5 sep groups at one time with ease (cazels). And never went below orange.</P> <P> </P> <P>It's really all about your gear and the player behind the char.</P>

[x0rtrun]

AH!!! OMG, nerf teh scouts!!  <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>On a more serious note though, I am a little concerned about scout tanks. I see it happen a lot. Certainly it requires a skilled player with good gear, but if a good scout can do the dps role while they are tanking like a champ, what do real tanks do? We're really only necesary for really hard content if a scout can do the job just fine with their skills in a group setting. For instance, a ranger in my guild tanks roost and tables using traps. The mobs basically line up and die one at a time before they get a chance to do much damage. They are dead before they get to him. Sure he's a good player and has good gear, but so am I, and if i were to tank the same encounters, things would be a lot more difficult. The healers would actually have to work harder, and agro would be an issue. They wouldn't be able to go all out on dps, so the mob would stay up longer, and hurt me more. Using a real tank class should be the MOST efficient means of dealing with an encounter, shouldn't it?Now my first statement to nerf scouts was obviously a joke, but when a dps class can do my job better than me... I start to wonder.<div></div>

[Cheezburgerinparadise]

<DIV>I like to tank myself but when my SK friend shows up I let her tank. Might as well make it easy on the healers. Let the plate class take over and all so I can stand behind that mob and drop it like it's nothing. I like the compliments i get from them =D</DIV>

[Pari]

<P>I don't mind being the tank against same/lower lvl heroics. Agains higher lvl ones I prefer a plate tank. Normally when I'm grouped, the best equipped fighter tanks, so it is normally not me :p</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Balmore]

I let plate tanks tank if they're around my level. I find plate tanks to be more reliable and especially on higher cons (high yellow+).Brawlers can go untouched on lower cons, tho. Mitigation makes plate tanks easier to heal on higher cons. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Lintr]

<div></div>I'd like to tank, unfortunately after what happened tonight, i've lost my spirit.  We were in Court of AA, and the guild decided to let me tank Sunchild at the beginning to take some hits first (Tsunami, Outward Calm).INC 5.... Agitate Spirit (Master II): <font color="#ff0000">Resisted</font>Infuriating Calm (Master I): <font color="#ff0000">Resisted<font color="#ffffff">Sunchild runs straight for one specific person, AEs the raid, wipe.</font></font>Alright, try #2INC 5...Rescue (Master 1): <font color="#00cc00">Taunted!</font>Agitate Spirit(Master II): <font color="#ff0000">Resisted</font>Infuriating Calm (Master I): <font color="#ff0000">Resisted</font>AE hits - <font color="#ff0000">BAM dead...</font>Warrior takes over and we kill Sunchild.I don't know what i'm doing wrong here, and we've taken down Sunchild plenty of times with our Warrior MT.  Sure, i can pull with Rescue everytime, but if i was really tanking this mob, i would quickly lose aggro if none of my regular taunts (at the Master I & II level) get resisted every [Removed for Content] time!  Although my job was just to pull and take some initial dmg, i get easily one shotted every time = I can pull great, just not tank =(<div></div><p>Message Edited by Lintrix on <span class="date_text">01-08-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:29 AM</span></p>

[Mala-Shea]

<div></div><p>You got resisted just because he's Lvl 65 epicx4 and extremely resistant to everything mental. As far as holding agro....I would bet you didn't have dirge and a coercer in your group our MT's spells are master "everything" and one of the best tanks I've EVER played with and without those 2 classes in MT group assisting with hate generation and a brigand in raid bebuffing....things can get hairy real quick!</p><p> </p><p>Slapp</p><p>60 Monk</p><p>Heroes Fate</p><p>Grobb</p>

[Gaige]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Lintrix wrote:<div></div>I'd like to tank, unfortunately after what happened tonight, i've lost my spirit.  We were in Court of AA, and the guild decided to let me tank Sunchild at the beginning to take some hits first (Tsunami, Outward Calm).I don't know what i'm doing wrong here, and we've taken down Sunchild plenty of times with our Warrior MT.  Sure, i can pull with Rescue everytime, but if i was really tanking this mob, i would quickly lose aggro if none of my regular taunts (at the Master I & II level) get resisted every [Removed for Content] time!  Although my job was just to pull and take some initial dmg, i get easily one shotted every time = I can pull great, just not tank =(<hr></blockquote><p>Have a dirge, shaman and coercer in the group?  Have a brigand in the raid?  Are you debuffing the hell out of the mob?  Did you have storm stance up?  Did you use outward calm?  Are you keeping lunging cobra up?  Do you have any items with +crushing on them to up your to hit to hit the orange con more reliably?</p><p>Answer no to any of those and you shouldn't even try oranges.</p>

[Catharz]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>x0rtrunks wrote:Using a real tank class should be the MOST efficient means of dealing with an encounter, shouldn't it?<hr></blockquote>Yep, and it will with all things being equal.I've also seen rangers (and other scouts) who could tank roost, but it really depends on their knowledge, equipment and spells.  Not all of them could do it better tho.  I know rangers who can't solo for chit, and I suspect would do very poorly as tanks there.Last night I tanked roost, and had a ranger with me who said they've tanked it.  After having agro taken away on all of the first few groups of mobs I told the scouts (3 of them in the group) to let me get agro on the named and let tsunami get some damage in.  I also told them, you pull agro on a named, you tank it 'til it's dead.  I pulled the first matron with hex doll, hit taunt, got stunned, ranger 1 got agro before mob got to us and went down, next ranger went down and then mob went down.  I laughed my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] off as they apologised.  Don't know how he normally tanks roost, but I'm sure that's not what he meant.As well as a monk, I also have a conjuror, warlock and troubador (all in separate tiers).  One thing I've discovered in playing the different classes, is skills >> group makeup.  You can have a group of any 3 classes and take down heroics.  If they have brains, good gear and a reasonable understanding of each other's class, any 2 people can take down some high blue heroics.  It all depends on the mobs, the gear and making the most of the classes available.  </span><span>I once had some idiot pull 3 ^^^ mobs in epic room of clefts while our healer was afk and our low-mid 50s group still beat them down.  </span><span>Unlike EQ1, you don't NEED the best healer, the best tank, a slower and power regen for a group to be effective.As far as plate vs me?  For heroics, it really depends on the plate tank.  In my 40s I had a healer comment that I was a better tank than the guardian 3 levels above who replaced me in their group.  I've also grouped with scouts that I have no doubt could fare as well as (or better) than me as a tank.  But I always defer to a plate tank if they have the hps and mitigation.If I have a good plate tank in the group, I generally consider myself to be a good backup plan.  </span><span>If I'm tanking and stuff goes to hell, I'm </span><span>often </span><span>the one that goes down first (or second after the healer).  We have a bunch of abilities that can </span><span>be used to keep the MT up, replace them if they fall or use phoenix as the ulitimate get out of jail card.  But I can't use any of 'em when I'm dead.</span><span>For epics, I definitely prefer a plate tank.</span></div>

Even if you answer "yes" to gaiges questions, your still a fool to try to tank an orange over a plate tank. I'm not saying I agree with the fact we can't tank as good as a plate wearer, its just the state of the game at the moment, and you are just fooling yourself if you think otherwise...or have no clue about the current game mechanics. Brawlers have their function in an x4 encounter....main tanking over a plate wearer is not one of them.<div></div>

[Gaige]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>KR wrote:Even if you answer "yes" to gaiges questions, your still a fool to try to tank an orange over a plate tank. Brawlers have their function in an x4 encounter....main tanking over a plate wearer is not one of them.<hr></blockquote><p>Close minded much?</p><p>For one, a lot of times, especially in DoF it isn't even about tanking "over" another class, but with.  Also all fighters can tank x4 encounters, period and the end.  Opinions like yours aren't wrong obviously, but they view the game in such a limited scope and close off a lot of real options to your guild, especially if you're raiding.</p><p>So please don't call me a fool and tell me if I'm tanking a x4 I'm not doing my proper function in the encounter.  I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing.</p><blockquote><hr>KR wrote:or have no clue about the current game mechanics.<hr></blockquote><p>I have an idea about who I feel fits that description, and I quoted him.</p><p>Oh yeah, and just fyi, last night our guardian died on our pull of Godking Anuk and I hit rescue... I tanked him just fine though, without a lot of my requirements.  I must be a fool.</p><p>Message Edited by Gaige on <span class="date_text">01-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:30 PM</span></p>

[nobunaga_x]

<div></div><p>Personally I have never had any issues tanking anything.  I have got some resists on high oranges or above, but you use other things like your AOE or buffs to gain aggro.</p><p>Resists are not because you are  a monk, but because they are higher mobs. I will bet the plate tank was higher lvl or had better quality ability.</p><p>Personally I will tank if there is no other tank or other tanks in group are lower lvl than me.  I really think we perform well as a puller in raids, but I would prefer not to tank a raid.</p><p>Best tank I have been with eas the other night, 59 bruiswer.  He was the only tank I have ever been with that I could not pull aggro from.</p><p> </p>

[ShashLigai]

<div></div><p>I have never had any problem tanking any mobs at any level.. of course I always solo... <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p>

[Stryyfe]

whoever can hold taunt... especially if you have a chanter in the group for power regen, heals arent usually an issue in most pickup groups that way. <div></div>

[-Llama-]

<div>Forget all fighter classes. Swash tanks ftw! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>Cappa <-- Tanker of Darathar <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[diamondma]

<span><blockquote><hr>KR wrote:Even if you answer "yes" to gaiges questions, your still a fool to try to tank an orange over a plate tank. I'm not saying I agree with the fact we can't tank as good as a plate wearer, its just the state of the game at the moment, and you are just fooling yourself if you think otherwise...or have no clue about the current game mechanics. Brawlers have their function in an x4 encounter....main tanking over a plate wearer is not one of them.<div></div><hr></blockquote>thats laughable just because u or some brawler u know cannot tank raid mobs does not mean that its not possible or not effective. there are plenty of us brawlers that do tank raid mobs just fine on most raid mobs now all that matters is hp and agro. if u can do both of those u are an effective tank. either u are stupid or ignorant u get to choose which one u are going to be.</span><div></div>

[Gerrine44]

<div></div><div>I really cant say i have a preference for a tank.  I have found that its who ever has the most cash or has the most fabled gear.  But with that said the best tank I have ever had was a hafling  monk I cant remember the name.</div><div> </div><div>But a question I have for anyone who remembers.  Were monks tanks in Everquest 1?  I really cant rember that far back, and if they werent that would explain an inability for those who are not decked out in the best gear possible to tank raid mobs.</div><p>Message Edited by Gerrine44 on <span class="date_text">01-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:34 PM</span></p>

[Maldrick]

<div></div>In EverQuest, Monks are a DPS class.

[x0rtrun]

<div></div>I played a monk in eq1 and we were generally a dps class, although with good gear you could tank for groups quite well.Monks in eq1 and monks (or bruisers) in eq2 are barely comparable.<div></div><p>Message Edited by x0rtrunks on <span class="date_text">01-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:02 AM</span></p>

[Aduvar]

<div></div><p>In all honesty I love tanking with my monk. It does help that i have a pocket fury with me (my wife).I have been in groups here as of late to get HQs done.  I step aside to let one of the plate wearers tank,but the only problem is I tend to pull aggro without even using my CA's. I can just auto attack and pull aggro.Do FD became my best friend that night, cause I didn't want to look like a show off.  I know they are taunting, andwhat not.</p><p>I know if my wife was asked this question she would without a doubt say she would want a monk named Brrupp as her tank. lol</p><p>So all in all it comes down the the player and what CA's they have and what not.</p><p> </p><p>That is my 2 copper on the matter.</p>