Anyone explain to me how exactly agro works here?

[Kaleyen]

Ok, in EQ I played a tank for 4-5 years.  Started off with a Warrior then after I reached 60 (back when 60 was the cap) I made an SK and fell in love with the class.  Now with my SK I had no issues keeping agro and rarely had to use a taunt.  I'd often pull the mob with a darkness spell (dot + snare) and then I'd only have to use a taunt once the mob turned/I lost agro and then I'd get back agro right away.  I guess it's that I don't know the agro table that well in EQ2, and when I'm tanking more and more I'd like to know exactly what I'm doing. In EQ1 it went something like this in my XP groups... Me Wizzy/Chanter Healer Rogue/Ranger ... ... So when I lost agro to the Wizzy/Chanter all I would do is taunt once and I'd have agro back np.  But in EQ2 when I lose agro it seems that I'm taking a long time to get it back.  I'm going through 2+ times of my single target taunts and my group taunt to get agro back which because of the reuse timers and such is a considerable amount of time.  I took the Master (not sure if it's Master I or II) of Dragon Advance because I knew I'd be tanking more and more.  Granted this has helped a lot, this sort of thing happens more then I would. <div></div>

[ArivenGemini]

<blockquote><hr>Kaleyen wrote: So when I lost agro to the Wizzy/Chanter all I would do is taunt once and I'd have agro back np. But in EQ2 when I lose agro it seems that I'm taking a long time to get it back. I'm going through 2+ times of my single target taunts and my group taunt to get agro back which because of the reuse timers and such is a considerable amount of time. I took the Master (not sure if it's Master I or II) of Dragon Advance because I knew I'd be tanking more and more. Granted this has helped a lot, this sort of thing happens more then I would. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Agro isn't the job of just the tank, it is a cooperative effort of the whole group. Some things to remember is that as a monk you specialize in taunting a single target better than aoe, due to your DPS and your dragon stance line of taunting what you hit. You have to ensure that everyone is working with you and understands that goal. That means when you call a target and attack, -everyone- sticks to that target. If you feel safe enough, tell them to not attack til you give the word, that lets you get prebuilt agro.Make sure they understand that if they pull agro, they stop attacking and fire any de-agro spells they have (if any). If you can get the mob stunned or rooted, they could even step back and let you be the closest to the mob, since proximity counts now.If your groupmates are not familiar with the /assist command, and dont have a assist macro to target the target you call, take the time to educate them and help them set up that command, a few minutes at the beginning helps a lot later on, and concentrating everyone on a single mob at a time helps take stuff faster (no dilution of dps across the whole encounter). Faster takedowns means faster, more efficient XP.What I will typically do, is do a call in group that I am pulling, that is thier signal to /assist (tankname) and target my target. I will go and pull then, if a single mob I pull and direct taunt then AOE taunt. If it is a group encounter I aoe taunt then direct taunt. I bring the mob(s) back and position them and everyone starts working on the mob. After I have established agro, I start walking through the rest of the mobs trying to get a bit of DPS and a direct taunt on every mob. This sets me up with some extra hate before we start working on them.This is where it is critical that they are all on that first mob, otherwise if they indirect target you and end up attacking the rest, the first mob takes longer to die, and they chase your agro on the rest of the encounter, risking pulling agro later on (or even now since you are just starting to taunt the rest).Also be sure to fire off all your taunts as they become available.And the really important fact in all this is that you are not the sole distributor of agro, they are too, so they need to manage their own agro, and if you are doing everything right, and they pull agro, they need to work on theirs a bit. Also remember your weakness is group encounters with more than one mobs, and plan for that (knowing that aoe specialists such as warlocks are going to want to aoe nuke and may well end up with agro).The side effect of doing things this way is that it helps a lot on encounters like the owlbears in Nek forest that break agro after the first one dies, I have found that if the tank can get some direct damage adn direct taunts on all the owlbears they break agro less often.a side note, some of the behavior of agro seems to indicate to me that existing static group buffs add to some prebuilt agro for people, so those nice tasty group buffs mean you may need to make allowances for that hate and deal accordingingly. No hard numbers, just some funny stuff that happens that seems to indicate that to me.

[BlueFalcon13]

<P>everything said by the above is great advice, but its always better to build on it, a few things ive noticed DPSing and tanking...</P> <P> </P> <P>1)mobs dont like getting hit, if you got it, and the healer is cool with the drain, throw on everburning flame, more hits = more aggro</P> <P>2)if  a single mob peals, jolting hands + darting sparrow, or whatever combo you have at your lvl, is a good way to try and get it back if it is still aggro on those paper-like mages... again this is where my thoughts on more hits(not dmg, whaps on the bugger) = more aggro, using this while DPSing tends to draw aggro from a plate tank taunting away</P> <P>3) at the begining of the encounter, make sure you have jolting hands on, and its best to have it ready for a second round if possible, then use the AoE attack if possible(i know this isnt always a good idea with other non-aggro mobs sometimes in the way) but this gets some good, group-hate on you</P> <P>other than those 3 tips, i would also use what was said above, as im sure everyone knows, its good advice <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> best of luck to you and your skull-crackin <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>Kaynal, Befallen, 50 monk</P>

[Apathyloves]

Everything BlueFalcon13 said, but I need to clarify one thing.  BlueFalcon13 is thinking from a monk perspective with DragonStance line up (on a successful hit , 50% chance to increase threat by X).  So, when you reread the above, where more hits=more agro, that is true for monks with DragonStance and not true in general.  Additionally, #2 and #3 are because jolting hands provides multiple attacks in a short while allowing for the possible increase in threat by X amount.Nope

[BlueFalcon13]

you are probably right, but it seems anytime, while DPSing with dragon stance line off, if i turn on everburning flame, i will draw aggro... im talking about with my auto attack, out DPSing a zerker, out DPSing his taunts, and out DPSing all his CAs(which really doesnt seem likely to me), i will pull aggro from him with hitting any button but attack. i even waited a few seconds for the zerker to get an aggro base, and yet i still seemed to be ripping that mob away in 15-30 secs on the same mob... its quite possible that this guy just road the short bus to school, but i really dont see the likely hood of this happening to a tank with half a brain... also the zerker wasnt my only experiance with that, i duo with my friend who is a 52 SK and im a 50 monk, and ill peal aggro from him with just enjoying my lighting fast attacks with everburning flame on... but maybe its the conditions and the people involved in those cases that make it seem that way, but the more i mess around with it, the more it seems to be true...

[Kaleyen]

So you have to continual mash your taunts instead of just using them when you lose agro? <div></div>

[Cwi]

I'm not entirely sure but in EQ1 Taunt only increased your position on the hate list by moving you up a certain number of positions, correct? Meaning that if you already were at the top of the list you didn't need to continue pressing it every time it refreshed? In EQ2, most  taunts increases your threat number by a certain amount rather than your threat position. This means you need to use it each and every time it refreshes, rather than waiting till you lose agro and then mashing it over and over. By using it every chance you get you'll be building your threat number and hopefully have an easier time staying at the top of the list. <div></div>

[ArivenGemini]

<blockquote><hr>Kaleyen wrote:So you have to continual mash your taunts instead of just using them when you lose agro? <div></div><hr></blockquote>Yes, when your taunts are up, use them. If you dont, then your fighter dps has to compete with the healer agro and that nuke happy warlocks agro... and just wait til you get a swashy in your group who is stab happy.. with my 51 swash I can pull agro off monks 4 levels up if they dont pay attention and I get stupid and don't watch my agro to compensate for them not using all their agro stuff.It isn't always fun to button mash, but popping the taunts whenever you can (circumstances will dictate use of them as you get more and more used to the concept) will ensure a much safer run.. especially when you get into the mindset of the fact that you are NOT there for dps, you are not there for utility, you are there just to keep everything mad at YOU and take a hit while the rest of the group removes the mobs. While you can do decent dps, what point is doing dps if you lose agro and the cloth wearer gets killed in 2-3 hits? If you focus on agro and crowd control first and dps a close second it will be easier.And yes, I know that there will be people who will disagree about my opinion of dps vs hate.. but to me the tank in the group is there to guide the flow of the encounter, to make sure that he maintains the agro on himself, while taking or avoiding hits, and allowing the DPS to do their job and the healers to do theirs all without worrying about that poor warden or wizzy ending up as backup tank.That said, the more dps you bring to the table, the more efficient the encounter can be as long as you can maintain agro.