wow. is Swooping Crane Master 2 always that powerful?

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>It might have just been the group I was in the other day, but when I finally dinged 54, I chose Swooping Crane Master 2 for the new upgrade. My group at the time was fighting Cyclops in Pillars of flame.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The spell says 374-624 crushing damage, which for the most part on monsters I fight, is true.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But that group of Orange conning level 59 cyclops we were fighting, I set a new personal damage record with 743.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just find it weird that I'd score so high on a monster who's level alone would make it hard for me to damage.</DIV>

[henn]

<DIV>Its prolly because of your group make up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Cyngii]

<DIV>I'm not sure if it's a display bug or not, but unless you actually "examine" a weapon or CA the damage at your current STR/INT won't  necessarily display (who's to say it is showing is right anyway).  Like with CAs the value that it says by mousing over the icon won't necessarily be the same as when you actually "examine" it.  I'm not sure if the value they are showing is 100% accurate either as i've hit for more damage than what the spell shows mulitple times. </DIV>

[x0rtrun]

If you had a fury in your group, you can chock that up to primal fury <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Nope. No druids.</DIV>

[Mandelbro]

<div></div>Maybe a dirge?Dirge - 52 - Clara's Cataclysmic Cacophony - Decreases target encounter's crushing, piercing, and slashing resistance. This song requires a recurrent power cost to maintain<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Lets see.. I remember a troubador, a templar, a shadowknight, an illusionist, and a wizard.</DIV>

[x0rtrun]

I'm no expert on those classes, but any one of them could have a strength buff. That would be what effects your damage. <div></div>

[bluefish]

Maybe the mob was seriously debuffed?

[Cyngii]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> bluefish wrote:<BR>Maybe the mob was seriously debuffed? <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Debuffing shouldn't effect the theoretical max damage of a CA i wouldn't think.  I just check and just mousing over a CA does show the current damage range per your buffs (weapons you still have to "examine" to get current damage range).  I did a quick self buff test of my Swooping Crane Adept1 and got these results:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>STR = 184 -> 273-455 damage</DIV> <DIV>STR = 206 -> 279-465 damage</DIV> <DIV>STR = 289 -> 301-503 damage</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bout all i can say is check what your spell reads when in a similar group.  If you hit for more than what the spell reads I would think there is an error in the value it's displaying.  Just my 2cp.</DIV>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote>Cusashorn wrote:<div>Lets see.. I remember a troubador, a templar, a shadowknight, an illusionist, and a wizard.</div><hr></blockquote>A templar can add 10 to 15% (app4 to adept III) to groups melee damage with a mitigation debuff.</span><div></div>

[KnowH]

hehe, you guys are forgetting that wizards have a STR/INT buff <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>KnowHao wrote:hehe, you guys are forgetting that wizards have a STR/INT buff <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div><hr></blockquote>But this would show up in the ability damage description. So my guess is that the extra damage came from the templars mitigation debuff.</span><div></div>

[KnowH]

<DIV>I don't think the OP listed the CA dmg reading with the wizard in group, probably just jotted it down while solo.  Depending on the build of the monk and wizard, you could easily peg the monk's STR to the cap.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/shrug</DIV>

[Timaarit]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>KnowHao wrote:<div>I don't think the OP listed the CA dmg reading with the wizard in group, probably just jotted it down while solo.  Depending on the build of the monk and wizard, you could easily peg the monk's STR to the cap.</div> <div> </div> <div>/shrug</div><hr></blockquote>Of course there is no way of knowing who got the buff, op or the SK. The templar debuff will give all melee classes the same bonus.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Timaarit on <span class=date_text>12-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:25 AM</span>

[Reposa]

SK and Templars both have mitigation debuffs.  I've seen some CAs hit well over max because of those. <div></div>

[Junaru]

Also the Wizard buff is group NOT target. Atleast I think it is since the Warlock version of it is group.<div></div>

[chanaho]

   She already posted her grp makeup which included a troub...they are the offensive part of the bard family with dirges being more defensive.    The troubs have grp offensive buffs and also enemy debuffs. <div></div>

[Bladewind]

Troubs have a group str buff, group offensive skill increases, various target encounter debuffs, etc...  The damage display on a CA is buggy at best.  I'd say the str buffs from the wiz and the troub alone would jack damage up considerably in addition to possible debuffs and skill increases. 

[Rrawl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cyngii wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>Debuffing shouldn't effect the theoretical max damage of a CA i wouldn't think.  <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Incorrect. By simply using a Ruin Imbued Hex Doll's mitigation debuff I can make higher damage marks then the max listed on my CA's even when solo. (=   Oh, and buy your ruin imbued hes dolls today! *Tailor plug, had to be done*</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Cyngii]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rrawl wrote:<BR><BR> <P>Incorrect. By simply using a Ruin Imbued Hex Doll's mitigation debuff I can make higher damage marks then the max listed on my CA's even when solo. (=   Oh, and buy your ruin imbued hes dolls today! *Tailor plug, had to be done*</P> <P><BR> </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I am still standing behind my buggy display info, because if what you are saying is true then the displayed damage info on CA and weapons is worthless.  If debuffing allowed you to hit harder than the displayed "max" hit, that means the displayed info takes into account a mob's mitigation.  That being the case what would the baseline be?  What i'm starting to think is it has to do with being in offensive stance.  Is STR the only factor in determining damage or does "crushing" skill effect damage as well?  I've only noticed this while being in Halcyon Blessing stance which as a significant +crushing bonus.  It just so happens that Swooping Crane does "crushing" damage.  I don't knowj.. .just a thought. </DIV>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Cyngii wrote:<div></div><div>I am still standing behind my buggy display info, because if what you are saying is true then the displayed damage info on CA and weapons is worthless.  If debuffing allowed you to hit harder than the displayed "max" hit, that means the displayed info takes into account a mob's mitigation.  That being the case what would the baseline be?  What i'm starting to think is it has to do with being in offensive stance.  Is STR the only factor in determining damage or does "crushing" skill effect damage as well?  I've only noticed this while being in Halcyon Blessing stance which as a significant +crushing bonus.  It just so happens that Swooping Crane does "crushing" damage.  I don't knowj.. .just a thought. </div><hr></blockquote>Baseline is that when you look at the damage of a combat art or spell and engage immediately, the damage you do, is what the CA mentioned if you dont use any debuffs on the target. This applies to grouping also, STR buffs will increase the damage a CA displays. But when you use a hex doll or some other ability to decrease mobs mitigation, the damage a CA does, will increase accordingly, but since you CA description doesn't know which mob you will attack next and whether it has been debuffed or not, it will only show the baseline.</span><div></div>

[Skratttt]

^^^ someone here hit it right on the head......it was mob debuffing....i know because as an assassin(done leveling him) who also plays a brawler the effect is most dramatic with super high dmg arts like assassinate...on adept 3 the max it reads at 420 str (cap str at 60)is 7900ish dmg...yet i have had for 9-10k hits with it on epic mobs....why?? cause we had a Brigand hit their awesome debuff(neg 3k mitigation) right before i hit assassinate ....makes a huge diff

[kerel]

Speaking as a troub someone is getting our buffs mixed with dirge...i can buff str/sta with Raxyls, debuff melee resist with demoralizing processional but Dirge gets the melee skill <i>increase </i>while the dove song line is for preist/casters.<div></div>

[Vandileir]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> chanahook wrote:<BR>   She already posted her grp makeup which included a troub...they are the offensive<BR>part of the bard family with dirges being more defensive. <BR>   The troubs have grp offensive buffs and also enemy debuffs. <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>No. Troubs do alot for casters. We do very little for melee other than a small haste buff which I almost never use, and a weak str/sta buff which I almost never use since I'm a caster buffer.</P> <P>The only thing Troubs get that might seriously effect melee is our AGI/STR Debuff. -88 to both Adept I I believe.</P>

[Beldin_]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> chanahook wrote:<BR>   She already posted her grp makeup which included a troub...they are the offensive<BR>part of the bard family with dirges being more defensive. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Erm .. normally Dirges are meant to be the offensive bards and troubs the defensive <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Rrawl]

<P>I find that either type of Bard when offensive tends to get defensive. (=</P> <P>However, I'd say it's more a matter of Troubs are more focused on BUFFing their allies while Dirges DEBUFF the enemy more. That's very general though since they both do some of each.</P>

[Quijonsith]

Not sure how much of what I'm about to say has been touched on, but the CA damage when examined is compaired to baseline mitigationi of mobs.  Any debuffing will increase your damage.  Also, the way I chose my bard was based on reading through the bard forums.  Troubs buff party more while Dirges debuff more.  Also, Troubs do more for casters while Dirges do more for melee.