DPS? Can we be a DPS class?

[Junaru]

I haven't run any parsers since the days of my Warlock but I remember having trouble beating a monk 3 levels higher then my Warlock at the time. This ofcourse was all before the revamp of combat. I've been leveling up my Monk (29 right now) and I'm having a great time. I don't normally group too much cause I'm trying to grind out some levels to catch most of the alts in my guild.It seems like I do a ton of damage but I'm just wondering since the revamp are Monks still a DPS class then they want to be or are be just tanks? Either way isn't going to change the ammount of fun I am having playing him but would still like to know.<div></div>

[Wasuna]

*Waites for a response from the monk community*

[x0rtrun]

<div></div>Short answer, No. We are not a DPS class, and we do not have the same level of DPS as the DPS classes. We are average tanks with average DPS. Tanks, who just happen to generate agro with DPS. The extra DPS also helps us to finish off the mobs quicker, meaning we have to rely on our streaky avoidance for a shorter duration. There have been a few good posts about monks and their role... <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=24696" target="_blank">here. </a> Basically, we have decent DPS for a fighter, and can probably equal a lazy scout or nuker, but when a DPS class is really doing their job, we can't compare. It doesn't always seem that way in parses because our DPS is pretty steady as we cycle through our CAs. We all do roughly the same damage per CA and they all have 30 second cast times. DPS classes have a much wider range of damages and cast times leading to more burst DPS. After a big night of grinding, the total damage of the DPS classes far surpasses my own. And I geared heavy towards DPS knowing I wouldn't be tanking very often. (Although this hasn't crippled my tanking ability as much as I thought it would.) <div></div><p>Message Edited by x0rtrunks on <span class=date_text>12-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:27 AM</span>

[JudyJudy]

<EM></EM> <DIV><EM>In my opinion, we are a very balanced class.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Unfortunately, other melee classes attempt to compare their broken or gimped class to ours, and certainly fall short of our skills and prowess in many areas.  Because of this, you will usually see  the unnecessary need for resentment and anger toward the monk community, devs, individuals and the changes of LU13 and beyond - not realizing that many of us life long monks had nothing to do with it.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>A shame, really.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Now... On to your question:</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ff0000>We can tank:</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=21754&view=by_date_ascending&page=1" target=_blank><FONT color=#ffff00>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=21754&view=by_date_ascending&page=1</FONT></A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ff0000>We can tank for xp groups.</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ff0000>We can tank heroic mobs.</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ff0000>We can tank and excel at locking on to ONE target with very little chance of it peeling, none if rescue is used.</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ff0000>We are at the bottom at gaining and controlling group encounters, due to our skill progression.</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ff0000>We can handle certain epic encounters - yet there are many threads that debate the use of a brawler on a raid and/or epic.</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=10267" target=_blank><FONT color=#ffff00>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=10267</FONT></A></DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=24342" target=_blank><FONT color=#ffff00>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=24342</FONT></A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ff0000>Our DPS is about middle of the road when compared to other classes - but we do DPS very well, in my honest opinion - especially if you build your monk to do so and use the proper CA's in the best order to ensure maximum damage.</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=24417" target=_blank><FONT color=#ffff00>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=24417</FONT></A></DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=23579" target=_blank><FONT color=#ffff00>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=23579</FONT></A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ff0000>Finally, we have very useful utility such as FD, Group FD, Mend, Invisi - but only have ONE group buff which increases the attack rate of the party.  There are other monks on this forum, more experienced than myself, that can help elaborate on your questions further as I feel as if I've just scratched the surface of the world that is the "monk".  :smileyhappy:</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>All in all, we are an amazing class.  Yes, I may be a bit partial - as I have no alts and truly enjoy mastering my class, but hey...  Everyone has their thing, right?  :smileywink:</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Kudos to you and good luck.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>

[Kaleyen]

Eh, I consider myself a DPS Tank. I'm known throughout the lands as Kulilahunkamonka the DPS Tank aka MFMoD <div></div>

[Xellistemp]

My monk is very good at DPS...atleast in my opinion o.O actually I think the only thing allowing us to tank at all is the fact we have taunts and a stance that helps with our defense lol! <div></div>

[Junaru]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I didn't expect my Monk to stand up to my Warlock with multi-mob encounters. Not too many classes can but I wasn't sure about single target DPS.I still love my Monk. My Warlock sometimes has a hard time sheeding aggro and he pays for it from time to time. It's nice not being dead after 2 or 3 hits with my Monk. =o)<div></div>

[boarde]

<P>Balanced indeed...  Where we do fall a bit behind in the DPS area we make up for with important abilities for the group with the number of stun abilities and other spell interupts like the taunts.  I wouldn't say I out DPS those classes, but I do contribute those important CA blows that keep my tank alive when I am DPSn that they cant all match quite the same.  Gota weigh it all together..</P> <P> </P> <P>Ironfist</P> <P>Lvl 53 Monk</P> <P>Permafrost </P>

[JudyJudy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Junaru wrote:<BR>Not too many classes can but I wasn't sure about single target DPS.<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>We excel at single target DPS vs. other classes at our DPS tier.  Look at our CA line.  We have one AoE, magic based attack.  That's it.</EM></P> <P><EM>The rest of our CA's are used on a single target.  As is our taunting ability (dragon stance line), and tanking ability (single AoE taunt).  Anyone seeing a pattern here? :smileywink:</EM></P> <P><EM></EM><BR> </P>

[Cyngii]

<DIV>Are we a DPS class?  No, but we are far from slouches in the damage department.  Just as a comparison against a level 64 epicx4 single target encounter we had the following breakdowns (all level 60 chars): 1 wizard at 77k damage, 1 wizard at 68k dps, 1 bruiser at 44k dps, 1 monk at 43k, 1 monk at 42k, and 1 monk at 40k.  So looking at this very limiteid sample on a single encounter the wizards averaged 72.5k damage and the brawlers averaged 42.25k damage or about 42% less.  Once again we don't have a whole lot of raiding scouts (other bards) so don't really have good numbers on them... I know rangers deal hurt though.  Does that mean we suck DPS wise?  I don't think so.  We do bring noticeable damage to the table and Group feign death + group haste is usually welcomed in both raids and groups.  We have quite a bit more hp than scouts and mages so when dealing with AE encounters we have a decent chance of staying alive which is a plus <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  Plus we end up having very consistent damage output as our autoattack damage does quite a bit of damage and we don't have to worry about resists for most of our attacks.  Just carry different types of weaps and we're usually good to go.</DIV>

[Mala-Shea]

<P>I've parsed over 500 dps on more than one occasion on raid mobs. I seriously think we have nothing to complain about in the dmg dept. Single target mob and a dirge in the mt group and I'm spamming ca's hardcore. I am constantly top six on any single target mobs. But, athough a good dps class will beat me sometimes, they can't grab a raid mob and tank it in the same encounter.</P> <P>Imo, as far as classes go, we have nothing to complain about</P> <P> </P> <P>Slapp</P> <P>60 Monk</P> <P>Grobb </P> <P>Heroes Fate</P> <P> </P>

[Gaige]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xellistemp wrote:<BR>My monk is very good at DPS...atleast in my opinion o.O actually I think the only thing allowing us to tank at all is the fact we have taunts and a stance that helps with our defense lol!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>It appears that what you think and reality aren't the same.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you want to see "very good at DPS" parse a wizard, warlock, brigand, ranger, assassin or a swash.<BR></DIV>

[craized warrior]

yes monks are good at dps, not the best there is, but still very good.

[Cyclepinsett]

<DIV>Looking at parsed raids from our raiding alliance...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The rogues, predators, wizzys and warlocks usually score the highest DPS.  We can't even hope to compete with these DPS classes. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But raids need fighters- and I am usually at the top of the list of fighters for DPS.  No, we aren't powerhouses of DPS, but I like to say that I do the best with what I've been given.  I wouldn't give up my ability to tank for more DPS.  I am in a small guild and I usually find myself the main tank when we aren't grouping with any of the people from our raiding alliance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[dparker7]

<DIV>In comparision to other fighters? Yes.  Because of your average tanking ability, you should also have average fighter DPS though.  Im sure SOE will be looking into this soon. </DIV>

[Demodicus]

Our DPS is what keeps the aggro and enables us to tank well.So I doubt that

[Nerill]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dparker713 wrote:<BR> <DIV>In comparision to other fighters? Yes.  Because of your average tanking ability, you should also have average fighter DPS though.  Im sure SOE will be looking into this soon. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>^^^^^^^^^^</P> <P>T-R-O-L-L</P> <P>lol :smileyvery-happy:</P>

[LaoSh]

<DIV>Mala-Shea wrote:</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>I've parsed over 500 dps on more than one occasion on raid mobs. I seriously think we have nothing to complain about in the dmg dept. Single target mob and a dirge in the mt group and I'm spamming ca's hardcore. I am constantly top six on any single target mobs. <FONT color=#ff0000>But, athough a good dps class will beat me sometimes (<FONT color=#6633ff>ALWAYS</FONT>), they can't grab a raid mob and tank it in the same encounter.</FONT></P> <P>Imo, as far as classes go, we have nothing to complain about</P> <P></P> <HR> <P> </P> <P>This is totally true, and there is no reason to complain or even try to compare us to other dps classes because they cant do 1% of the things we can when it comes to keeping our group and/or MT alive.</P>

[Timaarit]

It is all situational from what I have seen. I parsed my lvl 57 monks DPS last night in Scornfeather and it was from 180 DPS to close to 600 DPS. Most of the time I got around 300DPS and this was both in DPS and main tank roles. So being mt, didn't seem to affect my DPS. On the other hand, the lvl 60 paladin I grouped with, got about 30% more DPS when he wasn't tanking. <div></div>

[MrDiz]

Ill invite most brawlers for dps role in most groups. But if for example we are doing cazels where you really need to clear things damned fast I would try to wait for a scout/mage.I would also not invite a monk as DPS if the tank wasnt a paladin, because ive found that I end up healing the monk mroe than the tank if its any other tank. Not sure why but monks DPSing [Removed for Content] the mobs off so much more than scouts and mages.So Id say yes you can be a DPS class. But no you will not always get the slot in a group looking for the serious DPS.

[BlueFalcon13]

<DIV>the reason monks [Removed for Content] off mobs so much with attacks is the AMOUNT of attack not the dmg. i have noticed while DPSing in groups that when i use my multi-hit attack and land them all(which is about the same dmg as an equal lvl skill) i tend to draw large amounts of aggro, not to mention using the shocking hands line while doing anything other than auto attack, which really gets the mob goin(right towards me usually :O ). the monk class is build more for amount of hits then high dmg hits(just look at out combat arts dmg and recast timers). im no expert but my understanding of the whole aggro thing is the more times you hit a mob the more it hates you, and yes dmg does play its role, but you hit a mob 3 times for 100 dmg, and someone else hits it once for 300 dmg and it will still be on you like the fat kid on pancakes, or like me on booze :O. add to that the haste we can generate for oursleves, through combat arts such as everburning flame, our offensive stance, and our group buffs, and you get a whole lotta hits on a mob. if i start drawing aggro i know to chill on the dps for this group. basically if they turn it on like momma's bakery in the dead of summer in GA then the monk is gonna be needing some heals. i wouldnt say we are a DPS class, as we are a tank class, but we can lean a bit more to one side or another at our choosing through our stances, if you really wanna get into it, we are tanks who manage aggro through our DPS more so than taunts.</DIV>

[MrDiz]

Ahh, didnt know that. So basically you can be a DPSer as long as your tank is an aggro master on single mobs? Basically a paladin or another brawler?

[BlueFalcon13]

i wouldnt say that in particular, last time i ran a parser i was in the 30s way before any of the adventure packs or anything, i would say we CAN do more DPS than other tank classes, but the cost of that isnt pretty(at lvl 49, using everburning flame master 2 costs me 30-something health every 3 seconds, an ugly price to pay without a druid in the group), yes i have had many aggro issues with tanks less concerned with their jobs than leveling as fast as possible, and quite a few groups i should have been MT in beacause i take my job seriously when tanking and do my best at it while they just wanna get the encounter over with to get the most exp possible. we are not DPS powerhouses, but we do do a good amount of dmg in a non-tanking role, and any monk will tell you /assist is vital for larger groups of mobs, cause we dont have much in the way of group taunts. we do our share of dmg in any role, and bring alot to a group at the same time, if not directly(group haste is something more than what it sounds when it comes to group total DPS for scout classes) then indirectly from our other abilities(free heal 2.5 min timer, and various high level grouping goodies). i like to look at the monk class as its own flavor. sometimes an aquired flavor, depending on the situation and group makeup, but one that is ultimately satisfying none-the-less. monks are a tanking class that bring alot to the table, and at the cost of something, and that something is mit. a monk that knows how to play his monk will go far in any situation regardless.

[MrDiz]

Yeah its very situational. eg. As a swashbuckler I loved monk tanks until I got hurricane. I almost didnt have to use evade or shadow slip ever. However as a templar, monks are becoming less flavour of the month for me. Altho in the early days of DoF I loved them as tanks because they fired my reactives less than other tanks, and therefore got me less aggro, in the later stages agasint more serious mobs the fact that my heals aggro the whole encounter can cause trouble when the monk is tanking the large group of weak mobs who hit for less damage but more often. The monks group aggro control is a problem.If the monk is playing DPS for the same type of encounter they are great for me as a templar as altho they often take the main targets aggro, the rest of the encounter stay on the tank and 1 such mob rarely needs me to switch to heal the monk who is dpsing.But this for me is why monks are now the best 'balanced' fighter out there. On single targets they make great tanks, but not always the best choice for DPS because of the aggro. On multiple mobs they are a good choice for DPS but not neccessarily as tank... for exactly the same reason <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Colossaltitan]

Monks do decent DPS for fighters, but in comparison to Rangers & others, we wouldn't be called anything even close to DPS.

[MrDiz]

<blockquote><hr>Colossaltitan wrote:Monks do decent DPS for fighters, but in comparison to Rangers & others, we wouldn't be called anything even close to DPS. <hr></blockquote>True. Which is how it should be. No point playing a scout if a monk can do similar dps and tank <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Colossaltitan]

Completly Agreed <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Colossaltitan wrote:Completly Agreed <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Well, today a lvl 58 fury was doing 250DPS and still healing me, a lvl 57 monk against 56^^^'s. I was doing 330 DPS on average. A 57 zerker was in the middle with 280DPS.</span><div></div>

[Colossaltitan]

Well thats SOE & their perfect class setup & balancing.