Everburning Blaze vs Fire

[Tilane]

<DIV>thought spells where supposed to be upgrades </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>lvl 46 Everburning fire master 1 = 35% haste </DIV> <DIV>lvl 60 Everburning Blaze adept 3 = 35% haste </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>shouldnt adept 1 blaze  > master 1 fire ?</DIV>

[Bladewind]

I'd expect to see the lower tier master 1 ~ the same as an adept 2 of the next tier.  This way, it can be used instead of an adept to give the master spell more value, but will still be improved upon if someone uses a rare in the next tier to make an adept 3 of the upgrade.  That said, I have no idea what the devs' intentions are/were on the issue <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[x0rtrun]

the everburning line seems to scale oddly. Some version have identical haste between their adept tiers etc. I think the reason is that in order to scale all the lines through all their tiers of quality would require them to give us way too much haste. Therefore there is a lot of overlap between the lines. The first spell in the line, everburning flame at master 2 has the same haste as the last spell in the line, everburning blaze at adept1. If they all scaled perfectly into the next spell line we'd either get a lot less haste early on to keep us from getting too much haste at the end, or we'd end up with 100% self haste at everburning blaze master 1. At least the way it is now you can get a lot more longevity out of earlier spells. They give a lot of haste at adept3+ and use less hp than the later lines. <div></div>

[Beldin_]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bladewind wrote:<BR>I'd expect to see the lower tier master 1 ~ the same as an adept 2 of the next tier.  <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Expected that also, but last week i saw a Level 44 Master 1 for my dirge in the broker that looked way wetter then the Level 58 Adept 1 .. and then i found out that it even was quite better then Adept 3. Luckily i got it for only 1,5p .. and since its a debuff that constantly uses mana per tick it costs less mana then the level 58 spell <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Ok .. maybe you won't care about dirges .. however what i want to say .. there are still some more spells out there that don't scale correctly.<BR></P>

[KnowH]

<DIV>LOL, a Dirge can only make a Monk better!!  *hugs Dirges*  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Question, what's the per tick health cost?</DIV>

[Beldin_]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KnowHao wrote: <DIV>Question, what's the per tick health cost? <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah .. i totally overlooked that this is the spell that constantly drains health .. so it also should drain less then the higher level spell .. so better don't complain too much about that  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Quijonsith]

Heck everburning flame (i believe a t4 spell) at master 2 is 30% haste with only 33 hp/tick. <div></div>

[Deathspell]

You guys use this spell all the time or in specific situations? I don't know what to do with it really, but I ignored it because I see no difference in my experiences/encounters and it drains power. <div></div>

[KnowH]

<DIV>Deathspell, our haste is our bread and butter, since our autoattack over the course of a fight will probably put out more damage (at full haste) than CAs alone (as CAs do squat once out of mana).  Also, if you are using the Storm Stance hate proc line, you'll want the haste to better hold agro.  When I'm chain pulling as a tank, I can pull mobs with low to no mana and hold agro with no problems fully hasted with Storm Stance up.  If you have a healer and you're tanking tough mobs, the mob will put more pressure on the healer than EF ever would.  If you're soloing against tough mobs and need health, leave it off.  Also if you're trying to regen health after a fight, turn it off and it'll be much faster <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Quijon, I've been level 60 for over a month and I still use the Master 2, LOL <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  But it's not a bad spell to upgrade, since you could have the higher haste in a group with a healer and then revert back to your Master 2 in other situations.</DIV>

[Zink]

<DIV>And not the the worst one aither thats dosent scale right, the lv 23 group haste master 2 (23. Wisdom of Zephyl) have the same haste as the lv 51 adept 1 group haste (51. Calm Tranquility )</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Askan</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Splitpaw</DIV>

[Quijonsith]

<div></div>Yep.  Saw that when someone posted some spell comparisons.  Guess I made the right choice in taking both of those master 2's. The 30% on everburning flame is quite noticeable to me when I see numbers flying more rapidly (I love seeing the numbers fly).   As far as when I use everburning flame, here's some scenarios: Solo easy/average mobs I use it during fights. Solo tough mobs I don't use alot. Group when I'm MT and fights are running consistently I use it because I'm getting  healed anyway and it helps hold aggro (man I love Dragon Advance master 2). Group when I'm MT and the healers appear to be having trouble I might turn it off. Group when I'm off tank or DPS I don't use it for two reasons.  1: Lets healers focus on the MT without me distracting.  2: So I don't pull aggro off the MT as much When I say tough mobs, here's an example.  At level 44 I was able to defeat a level 48^ ghoul in DoF consitently, but each fight I wound up in the orange, though once I got better with my strategy I was only in the yellow.  If the mob can get my health that low I don't use EF.  Also, as was said above, I always turn it off between fights to regen my health faster when soloing.  In groups with a healer there's little need to turn it off between fights.  Whether or not I use it in group fights really winds up being a judgement call from fight to fight.  I also inform the healers when I'm using it and ask them if they'd like me to turn it off. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Quijonsith on <span class=date_text>12-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:23 PM</span>

[Tilane]

<DIV>the drain is a % of your total hp and is the same on the entire everburning line </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>fire and blaze use the same % of hp each tick </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but my point is </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>an adept 3 new upgrade of the spell should put an old master 1 out of commision all other spells i have follow that progression </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>new adept 1 > old master 1 for our haste line it shouldnt have to be new master 1 > old master 1</DIV>

[x0rtrun]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Tilane wrote: <div> </div> <div>an adept 3 new upgrade of the spell should put an old master 1 out of commision all other spells i have follow that progression </div> <div> </div> <div>new adept 1 > old master 1 for our haste line it shouldnt have to be new master 1 > old master 1</div><hr></blockquote>I bet if you had all master1 compared to new adept1s you would see this really isn't the case that all your other spells follow that progression. Some might, but I bet most won't. I believe this is by design as well. They want master spells to be worthwhile for a long time. Even after you've out leveled them. They are special, rare abilities. It's only fitting that they should be superior to a lesser, more common version of the spell line, even though it's farther down the line. This is what makes your master2 choice actually worthwhile, because those spells will hopefully see you through many levels. Instead of looking at the progression like this <font face="Courier New"> Spell line 1, tier 1                              Spell line 1, tier 2                     app1 > app2 > app4 > Adept1 > adept3 > master 1 > app1 > app2 > etc etc etc <font face="Arial">look at it like this... <font face="Courier New">Spell line 1 Tier 1    Tier 2 app1    > app1 adept1  > adept1 adept3  > adept3 master1 > master1 <font face="Arial">It should be obvious from the first example that something seems wrong about an app1 being better than the master1 of the previous iteration of the spell line. If you've seen the screenshots I posted of spell comarisons from adept1 to adept3 or master, and between spell lines, you'll notice that the adept3 of a previous tier is usually as good or better than the adept1 of the next spell line. So maybe it would be more accurate if you took take the second example I gave, and bump the second collumn down one, so that adept3 would line up with adept1. </font></font></font></font></span><div></div><p>Message Edited by x0rtrunks on <span class=date_text>12-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:16 PM</span>