Dragon Stance Question.

[Junaru]

With Dragon Stance it says "self buff, on each succesful hit 50% chance on a taunt" does that mean with each one of MY hits or each time I get hit? <div></div>

[Kaleyen]

To my knowledge, everytime you hit the mob 50% of the time you'll gain threat with it. <div></div>

[Junaru]

Thanks Kaleyen.. Thats how I thought it worked but I have a guardian friend who said some of his skills work off of him getting hit so I thought I would ask. <div></div>

[Edyil]

With this line, Monks are quite possibly the best single target agro-generators.  Groups of mobs are a different story....

[Kaleyen]

<span><blockquote><hr>Edyil wrote:With this line, Monks are quite possibly the best single target agro-generators.  Groups of mobs are a different story.... <div></div><hr></blockquote> Very much so agree'd, thinking that this is why I'm being pushed to tank more then guardians and zerkers in group situations?  Holding agro on 1-3 mobs is easy enough, but when they come 4+ it's impossible for me to do so.</span><div></div>

[Edyil]

I group consistanly with a warlock.  He can pull group agro at will.  Absolutely nothing I can do about it.  Welcome to my world <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Neimhidh]

<DIV>ya, group taunting sucks.  If I tank a group it usually goes like this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Target mob 1, taunt.</DIV> <DIV>Taunt refreshes, target mob 2, taunt.</DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Taunt refreshes, target mob 3, taunt.</DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Repeat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Groups of 4 or more, I cannot hold any aggro.</DIV></DIV></DIV>

[Balmore]

Warlocks pull aggro from any tank in EverQuest 2 -- and at will if they don't control thier nukes. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Timaarit]

With this skill, my lvl 53 generates more single target aggro than lvl 60 paladin. No, I haven't tried it against him yet <span>:smileytongue:</span>, but a wizard who I and the pally group regularly with at least claims that he can nuke a lot harder when I am tanking. Then again, last night I forgot to use this skill in the beginning while tanking in Scorn and no one in group noticed anything out of ordinary, not even me till I counted the buffs I had on <span>:smileysurprised:</span> <div></div>

[Edyil]

<P>lol</P> <P> </P> <P>It's not too hard to tell when one is missing <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  We only have 3 to begin with....</P>

[Bladewind]

Rotate your targets to hold group aggro - it is not that hard <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  If you pull with your group taunt, then drop your single on your first target along with a few hits, rotate to next and hit it several times, and so on while using your taunts as they refresh, you will hold group aggro fine.  Designate an MA so that your damage dealers are all concentrating on one mob at a time while you rotate targets to hold aggro.  If your nukers can wait the extra 5 seconds per mob at the onset of the encounter for you to get a few hits in on each target, you will find holding group aggro is not very difficult either.  They should be debuffing during the opening rounds anyway so that their nukes are more effective.  If it is a large group of very easy to kill mobs, then it does not really matter if you hold all aggro since, especially in the case of a warlock, they will be gone before they can inflict any damage. 

[Edyil]

<P>Heh</P> <P>You rotate targets all you want.  But while you switch from target one to target two,  the Warlock has the other 6 mobs instantly beating on him.  Good luck with that plan.</P> <P>(Yeah it works on 2 and sometimes 3 mobs but nobody suggested it didnt work)</P>

[Bladewind]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Edyil wrote:<BR> <P>Heh</P> <P>You rotate targets all you want.  But while you switch from target one to target two,  the Warlock has the other 6 mobs instantly beating on him.  Good luck with that plan.</P> <P>(Yeah it works on 2 and sometimes 3 mobs but nobody suggested it didnt work)</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I've duoed with a warlock from charcter creation to lvl 58...  The warlock should be debuffing at the beginning of the fight, not nuking.  Otherwise the nukes and big dots are wasted.  As far as 6 or more mobs in an encounter, well that is a pretty limited set of circumstances.  I can think of a few raids and maybe a few other times where large groups of easily-dispatchable trash mobs (like herds of deer) were encountered, but aside from that, 4 or 5 is the most you will routinely see.  With this method you can always lock down 4 and usually keep the 5th under control. In fact, using this method, I can lock down 3 seperate 2-3 mob encounters as well.  If it is a diffiuclt mob/group of mobs, the warlock holding off for a few seconds at the onset will not make any major difference in the length of the fight, but it will allow you to get a firm grip on aggro.  I have tried and routinely succeed using this method.  Having your group taunt and taunt proc at adept 3 or better helps greatly in this enterprise.  If you are messing around with adept1 or worse, things might not work out as well.  Designating an MA as if it were a raid helps with this method as well.  If you pull with a group taunt, hit mob 1 with your single target, and hit it  af ew times with your hate proc up, the rest of the group will be able to burn it while you rotate around gaining aggro on other targets.  I know the warlock has the ability to grab aggro with their AOE's and DOT's, but a good warlock realizes this causes chaos at best and results in a wipe at worst, and will be disciplined enough to hold off for a few seconds and allow you to get aggro.  The method works well, I had no intention of insulting or offending - just trying to help...

[LaoSh]

<DIV>agreed, not to mention any encounter unless epicx4 with 6 mobs or more is hardly a threat to even casters and are each so weak that with any decent of dps they will drop very quickly.  Even if they get a few hits on the warlock it shouldnt be much to worry about as long as the healer is not afk or something.  And if you have a Shaman in the group it is a non-issue due to Group wards, and also at 58 every priests have that new healing/warding AOE spell which also helps alot.  Use your AOE taunt, AOE attack, and after that its there own fault if they wanna nuke AOE so hard they pull a few off you, I wouldnt bother switching targets around unless they are high level epics that will each take a long time to take down and can each potentially 1-3 shot kill casters.  just my opinion on this</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lao,</DIV>

[Edyil]

<DIV>never mind...  The explaination isnt worth telling those that cannot listen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will leave you with this:  When you are fighting groups of lvl 62^^^ mobs or groups of 2 62^^ and 1 62^^^ or when you fight 3 ^^ lvl 64 mobs (and no, these are not Epic), you make sure to tell the Warlock that its business as usually because you have a "plan" to handle the Monk-Goup taunt problem.  I'm sure he will show you your flaws.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If your suggestion is that, because a Monk is tanking AOE casters in the group MUST back off and cast differently than we grouped with other tanks, then you are only proving my point.  Are there work-arounds?  Obviously.  But they result in ineffecience which further demonstrates the problems at hand...  the class with the worst group taunt capability.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Edyil on <span class=date_text>12-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:34 AM</span>

[Bladewind]

<P>/shrug  </P> <P>I've had no major problems.  I'll readily agree that we have the weakest group taunt capability, but that does not mean it is difficult/impossible to tank sizable groups of mobs effectively.  I have read/listened to your arguments, but, in my experiences, I have not witnessed the issues you raised to nearly the extent that you have.  I am not saying the warlock should hold off because  a monk is tanking.  A warlock can get aggro from *any* tank in a multimob encounter at will.  I am saying they should open with debuffs rather than nukes (including the big aoe dots).  Opening with nukes is inefficient because a non debuffed mob takes much less damage.  A side benefit is that debuffs generate minimal threat, giving you a chance to work around all of the mobs in the encounter gaining threat for yourself while the warlock is debuffing the noxious resist of the encounter.  You can call this strategy a 'plan' or a workaround' and keep referring to it as if it is untested, but I and other monks I know have used it effectively since the combat changes.  It is simply using the aggro generation tools at the monk's disposal (single and group taunts and offensive taunt proc) to gain ahold of aggro of the mobs in the encounter.  IE, doing your job witin the group.  I don't see why the notion of rotating targets is such a travesty to some people.  Other tank classes can maintain aggro easier on a group of mobs without switching targets, sure, but none can match us on single mobs.  That's the trade off.  Harder does not mean impossible.  It is quite doable.  I guess it is a matter of working with you have to adapt to the situation versus wanting a gimme to make everything easy.</P> <P>Anyway, we both seem to feel like we are talking to walls, so I'll not post anymore about it here.  </P>

[pharacyde]

If a warlock goes all out, there is only one solution to keep agro on the MT. The warlock needs amends and the troubadour agro debuff. Otherwise the warlocks just pulls agro from any class. From brawlers first, then the SK then the guardian, and then the zerker. Of course the palladin with amands can keep agro. Anyway, warlock put soo much dps out that I have seen palladins pull agro on raids when they put amends on the warlock.Anyway, best way, is to always target the highest mob in the encounter, and be sure to keep agro from that one. The others are single arrow at most. They are like solo mobs, so if the warlock pulls agro, it is possible to keep him alive anyway and they die fast also.Just trying to help.<div></div>

[Timaarit]

Heh, I have noticed that you cannot please everyone <span>:smileywink:</span>. Yesterday I grouped with a wizard and a warlock with my monk. The only times when I managed to keep aggro all to myself with multiple targets was when I used Tsunami and run through them hitting and taunting. When Tsunami wasn't up, and I ran through targets, wizard got aggro, when I didn't run through targets enough, warlock got aggro. With single targets, the wizard (lvl 58, my monk is lvl 55) said that he could go to full burn and not get aggro unless I slacked <span>:smileytongue:. And I still have app IV dragon stance (lvl 42 one). Going to get that adept III version next level <span>:smileyhappy:, it creates almost 2x the aggro that the old version does.</span></span> <div></div>