Any Monks Raid Tanked yet?

[blueduckie]

<DIV>Was curious if any of you have tanked any lvl 62+ mobs yet. No monks in my guild we guardian tank almost everything. Paladin sometimes but mostly found guardian is still best. Our bruisers have a hard time surviving a big mob if 3 min buff drops but going to test it some more for them but would love to hear monk tanking stories if any have tried.../poke gaige.</DIV>

[lusank]

I havent as im only 53, but theres a 60 monk in my guild that tanks raids quite often, and does very well. <div></div>

[Mala-Shea]

<DIV>I have tanked all t5 non contested and contested content , Meathooks, Lockjaw, a couple of names in Gates. Good healers, full scaled armor, T6 weapons, agi potion and mit. potion FTW! Very doable with the right set up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Slapp</DIV> <DIV>60 Monk</DIV> <DIV>Recruitment Officer </DIV> <DIV>Heroes-Fate </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://www.heroes-fate.com" target=_blank>www.heroes-fate.com</A></DIV>

[shirka]

I have only done the Angler, but only because there wasn't a tank in guild online at that time <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And they tried to throw me at the Djinn for carpet 4, althought I told them I wouldn't work...repeately. Turned out, I was right, lol! <div></div>

[BigPig The Destroy]

<DIV>hehe it nice when am group i get the people saying wow i dint know monks where good tanks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Secret-P]

<DIV>We havent really done much t6 yet, but since combat changes i have been MTing t5 a lot - Angler, Lich, The vox's, MoM, Darathar, SoTL, hmmmm and [Removed for Content] old meathooks is about all we managed in t6 as of yet but watch this space!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am a big believer in the monk as a tank, i tank all th time for my groups, and i make sure these meatshields know i can do as good a job in most any scenario as they can =)</DIV>

[Bladewind]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> shirka wrote:<BR>I have only done the Angler, but only because there wasn't a tank in guild online at that time <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>And they tried to throw me at the Djinn for carpet 4, althought I told them I wouldn't work...repeately.<BR>Turned out, I was right, lol!<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I did carpet 4 at 56, but it was with a coercer.  The named is no big deal; it is the adds that do all of the damage.  If you can mez them for the fight and/or use tsunami, it is no big deal.  They die when the named dies, so just mez them and burn the named down.

[Jezekie]

<span><blockquote><hr>blueduckie wrote:<div>Was curious if any of you have tanked any lvl 62+ mobs yet. No monks in my guild we guardian tank almost everything. Paladin sometimes but mostly found guardian is still best. Our bruisers have a hard time surviving a big mob if 3 min buff drops but going to test it some more for them but would love to hear monk tanking stories if any have tried.../poke gaige.</div><hr></blockquote>With the right buffs a Bruiser can tank just fine. There's no reason to use a guardian for the majority of the encounters, at all.</span><div></div>

[Skha]

<span><blockquote><hr>Jezekiell wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>blueduckie wrote:<div>Was curious if any of you have tanked any lvl 62+ mobs yet. No monks in my guild we guardian tank almost everything. Paladin sometimes but mostly found guardian is still best. Our bruisers have a hard time surviving a big mob if 3 min buff drops but going to test it some more for them but would love to hear monk tanking stories if any have tried.../poke gaige.</div><hr></blockquote>With the right buffs a Bruiser can tank just fine. There's no reason to use a guardian for the majority of the encounters, at all.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Oh yes there is.</span><div></div>

[swampthing]

And that reason is what?  That YOU happen to play a guardian?

[lusank]

Lol, I'm usually content with letting guards and others tank as I prefer to be the dps. Thats why I like monks, we can tank yes, but we arent just limited to tanking, and can lend a hand to the dps side of things, not many classes can do both effeciently. <div></div>

[Skha]

<span><blockquote><hr>swampthing wrote:And that reason is what?  That YOU happen to play a guardian? <div></div><hr></blockquote>I play a 60 bruiser and I've tanked Terrorantula and some other t6 epics, thanks. Maybe  because I've tanked them myself, and because I've seen other classes tank them, I can tell that a guardian is the best choice on 99% of all epic content. On the other hand Mr. [Removed for Content], what do you know about tanking? </span><div></div>

[Jezekie]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Skharr wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>swampthing wrote:And that reason is what?  That YOU happen to play a guardian? <div></div><hr></blockquote>I play a 60 bruiser and I've tanked Terrorantula and some other t6 epics, thanks. Maybe  because I've tanked them myself, and because I've seen other classes tank them, I can tell that a guardian is the best choice on 99% of all epic content. On the other hand Mr. [Removed for Content], what do you know about tanking? </span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Since you're being a smartypants your self, perhaps you'd like to enlighten the community on what encounters in particular you feel you aren't a sufficient tank for, and why. Broad descriptions will suffice.Through my own experiences, and watching the guilds guardian tank the majority of the time I see no reason why I (Or others from the Fighter Archtype tree) shouldn't, or couldn't, be tanking the encounters I'm not, they aren't, already tanking. Keeping player twitching skills/reflexes aside.In fact certain encounters even promotes the usage of a Brawler as a tank, though they are few and far between.Edit: Looking at your post history I suppose that reply of yours shouldn't come as surprising.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Jezekiell on <span class=date_text>11-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:52 PM</span>

[stfields]

<DIV>I've tanked various contested T5 stuff at 55 and I tanked LJ at 60 before they made him (and stuff like Terrorantula) a lot easier.  Yeah, its doable, but risky.  My guild had no guardian at 60 until just recently.  We had a bunch of 59 Paladins and two 60 monks.  The monks and paladins would tank pretty much everything. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Having a shot at tanking raid content was pretty nice.  It kept my hopes up that maybe we wouldn't simply be relegated to DPS...  Then our guardian hit 60.  Honestly, we have no business tanking mobs if the guardian is there.  Well... unless we want to challenge ourselves.  Or maybe if the mob was a chain-nuking mental caster...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We make a mediocre off-tank for adds... that's about it.  It's pretty depressing.  With all the potions/gear I can muster up, I fall about 1000 mitigation short on the guardian with only a 15% avoidance advantage.  We all know how much avoidance is worth when the mob is 62+. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But for the time being, having the guardian tank suits me just fine.  I can lead raids better when I can focus on other details, especially when the MT knows exactly how to do his job. </DIV>

[Shaialit]

I don't know about that... I'm 60monk and I've tanked 64 x4 (with two adds) and did actually slightly better than our guardian. We had 7 healers and healers ran out of mana healing guardian at around 7% of mobs health left while with me tanking healers ran out at 6% <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So yes a slight difference, but a illusionist or another healer and we would been able to beat it, with either the guardian or me tanking. My avoidance was at 77.1% and Guardians was at 59%. So don't think that avoidance doesn't play a role here. It does. I think SOE changed it so that all tanks can tank. It wasn't any more risky or harder with a monk as the MT. Though since I don't like tanking <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I like our guardian tanking and give him my avoidance buff. Works pretty well. But I do think that any tank can tank epics as long as they know what they are doing and have descent equipment. And my gf who was playing a healer (defiler) in this raid told me it was easier keeping me up than the guardian.

[swampthing]

<DIV>"I play a 60 bruiser and I've tanked Terrorantula and some other t6 epics, thanks. Maybe  because I've tanked them myself, and because I've seen other classes tank them, I can tell that a guardian is the best choice on 99% of all epic content. "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I thought about actually replying to you and explaining but i also read your past posting history.  You seem to like to just hang out and make comments about how great guardians are, and most of your posts are as worthless as the first one i mistakenly actually acknowledge.  So anyhow decided not to bother.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All i'm gonna say is if a guardian is the best chioce on 99% of all epic content then guards need to be nerfed.</DIV>

[Reposa]

Brawlers are truely great tanks now.  I've tanked a lot of crap, a lot better than any other fighter in our guild, I've also tanked stuff a lot worse.. Overall I would say we're even, if not better at times, than guardians.. although, I wouldn't go anywhere without one <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I've tanked LJ, Terror, every mob in Al'Afaz minus Sunchild/Blackqueen, some PP2 stuff, almost every encounter in AhketAken and Silent City. Nothing is out of reach with the right setup, both personal and group.  I would like to get my tank on with some really hard crap, Pedestal, PP2, PoF dragons.. hopefully it will all come in time. <div></div>

[henn]

tis is true ledbetter makes me proud when i watch him raid =) <div></div>

[Skha]

<span><blockquote><hr>Reposado wrote:Brawlers are truely great tanks now.  I've tanked a lot of crap, a lot better than any other fighter in our guild, I've also tanked stuff a lot worse.. Overall I would say we're even, if not better at times, than guardians.. although, I wouldn't go anywhere without one <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I've tanked <font color="#ffff00">LJ</font>, <font color="#ffff00">Terror</font>, <font color="#ffff00">every mob in Al'Afaz</font> minus <font color="#ff6600">Sunchild</font>/Blackqueen(<font color="#ffff00">?</font>,<font color="#ff6600">?</font>), some <font color="#ffff00">PP2 stuff</font>(<font color="#ffff00">I guess..<font color="#ffffff">)</font></font>, <font color="#ffff00">almost every encounter in AhketAken and Silent City</font>. Nothing is out of reach with the right setup, both personal and group.  I would like to get my tank on with some really hard crap, Pedestal, PP2, PoF dragons.. hopefully it will all come in time. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Well, a brawler with decent gear, potions and the right group can probably reach around 3800 mitigation, if not more. This is (more then) enough for pretty much every yellow con there is, considering avoidance actually works against those. On top of that, monks have probably the best single target hate against mobs they <i>can</i> hit. However, I'm afraid the way they are now.... most, if not all, orange cons are just out of reach. They pretty much ignore avoidance, they are next to impossible to hit with a melee attack (debuffs/buffs don't really seem to make a difference.. or is it just me?) and they hit HARD. IMO pretty much all orange cons hit so hard atm, that a brawler <i>would</i> get one shot at a certain point. I'm not talking about mobs like Ciriktna where you can have a guardian tank his adds and have a brawler tank Ciriktna himself.... sure that's doable... but a brawler tanking encounters like POF Barakah, Sunchild, Gutrom the Guardian or whatever he's called, from 100% to 0%.... I really doubt it. Maybe someone will prove me wrong in the future (And I really hope s/he will), but until that, I'll consider most orange con x4s impossible for a brawler... (BTW why do I always get flamed for stating the obvious? Guardian really IS the best tank against majority of all epic encounters with the current game mechanics... I never said I think it should be that way... I never said I like it (I don't)... but,right now, sorry, it's a fact.) </span><div></div>

[x0rtrun]

I gotta agree with skharr. Guardians are on the opposite end of the spectrum from brawlers. Sure brawlers can probably handle it, and in the future more so as we gear up better, but guardians will always have the edge, and rightly so. <div></div>

[diamondma]

<DIV>i would have to agree yellows are very doable but i would definitely rather a guardian before me on an orange raid mob. on oranges we just dont avoid enough and our mit is way too low to just sit in and take hits. yes we may be able to get up to 3800 mit but take the same mit buffs and put them on a guardian and what do u get. i'd much rather have 70% mit and 50-60% avoidance than 40-50% mit and 70% avoidance when tanking oranges that pretty much ignore avoidance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> ;p just my $.02</DIV>

[Reposa]

<span><blockquote><hr>Skharr wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Reposado wrote:Brawlers are truely great tanks now.  I've tanked a lot of crap, a lot better than any other fighter in our guild, I've also tanked stuff a lot worse.. Overall I would say we're even, if not better at times, than guardians.. although, I wouldn't go anywhere without one <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I've tanked <font color="#ffff00">LJ</font>, <font color="#ffff00">Terror</font>, <font color="#ffff00">every mob in Al'Afaz</font> minus <font color="#ff6600">Sunchild</font>/Blackqueen(<font color="#ffff00">?</font>,<font color="#ff6600">?</font>), some <font color="#ffff00">PP2 stuff</font>(<font color="#ffff00">I guess..<font color="#ffffff">)</font></font>, <font color="#ffff00">almost every encounter in AhketAken and Silent City</font>. Nothing is out of reach with the right setup, both personal and group.  I would like to get my tank on with some really hard crap, Pedestal, PP2, PoF dragons.. hopefully it will all come in time. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Well, a brawler with decent gear, potions and the right group can probably reach around 3800 mitigation, if not more. This is (more then) enough for pretty much every yellow con there is, considering avoidance actually works against those. On top of that, monks have probably the best single target hate against mobs they <i>can</i> hit. However, I'm afraid the way they are now.... most, if not all, orange cons are just out of reach. They pretty much ignore avoidance, they are next to impossible to hit with a melee attack (debuffs/buffs don't really seem to make a difference.. or is it just me?) and they hit HARD. IMO pretty much all orange cons hit so hard atm, that a brawler <i>would</i> get one shot at a certain point. I'm not talking about mobs like Ciriktna where you can have a guardian tank his adds and have a brawler tank Ciriktna himself.... sure that's doable... but a brawler tanking encounters like POF Barakah, Sunchild, Gutrom the Guardian or whatever he's called, from 100% to 0%.... I really doubt it. Maybe someone will prove me wrong in the future (And I really hope s/he will), but until that, I'll consider most orange con x4s impossible for a brawler... (BTW why do I always get flamed for stating the obvious? Guardian really IS the best tank against majority of all epic encounters with the current game mechanics... I never said I think it should be that way... I never said I like it (I don't)... but,right now, sorry, it's a fact.) </span><div></div><hr></blockquote>While your 100% correct for the most part... I tanked Barakah in Maj'Dul fine when she was Orange (until 12k AoE owned me, heh).  As for the rest of the orange con raid mobs, they ignore mitigation as well, so a guardian has the same chance to tank them as anyone else, which leads everyone to believe that either the con system is broke, or the mobs should all be lvl 64 tops.</span><div></div>

[Skha]

I don't think they agree mitigation completely, but they sure don't take it into account nowhere near as much as yellow cons. For example, when I pulled Sunchild, he one shot me with over 10000 auto attack hit, but our tank was taking only about +-6000. He had maybe 1200 mitigation more as I was lacking the buffs from MT group. Also, POF Barakah was hitting me for about 1500 when I had between 6000 and 7000 mitigation (porcupine + calloused skin when it was still possible to bypass the stun), but when the short duration buffs dropped, I was getting hit for 6k or more.... <div></div>

[Sinsemil]

<div></div><div></div><font color="#339900"><i><b>I have tanked everything in T6 name the zone or the mob i have tanked it, period. Have had no problems either, only thing i have problem with is holding down agro from the [D A M N] warlocks and rangers! Seriously tank better than Pallys SK, Tank about even with Berz and Guardians. Guild has put me too the test on every named raid mob T6 and T5 and i barely break a sweat, of course i also parse heals so the healers are on the F`ing ball ! Now when i do tank i use every utility i have Tsunami and switch between defensive stances waiting for the next to refresh. I think we have been done over correctley and would like to thank Lockeye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Side Note: Guild loves to see the gnome monk tank everything =), even though there are taunt / agro issues some times . . . . /point rangers, warlocks </b></i></font> <div></div><p>Message Edited by Sinsemilla on <span class="date_text">11-26-2005</span> <span class="time_text">02:10 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Sinsemilla on <span class=date_text>11-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:10 AM</span>

[superdave]

<DIV>i seem to havein diffculty tanking group mobs. i have all taunts to adept3's and have 8 adept 3's and two master spells also. It seems to me i tank fine until i start tanking damage and healers cant deal with the huge spike in damage. The cleric's now reactives really dont help with me. If anyone have any suggestions on group mobs i really appreciate it. I would love to tank more.</DIV>

[Skha]

<span><blockquote><hr>Sinsemilla wrote:<div></div><div></div><font color="#339900"><i><b>I have tanked everything in T6 name the zone or the mob i have tanked it, period. Have had no problems either, only thing i have problem with is holding down agro from the [D A M N] warlocks and rangers! Seriously tank better than Pallys SK, Tank about even with Berz and Guardians. Guild has put me too the test on every named raid mob T6 and T5 and i barely break a sweat, of course i also parse heals so the healers are on the F`ing ball ! Now when i do tank i use every utility i have Tsunami and switch between defensive stances waiting for the next to refresh. I think we have been done over correctley and would like to thank Lockeye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Side Note: Guild loves to see the gnome monk tank everything =), even though there are taunt / agro issues some times . . . . /point rangers, warlocks </b></i></font> <div></div><p>Message Edited by Sinsemilla on <span class="date_text">11-26-2005</span> <span class="time_text">02:10 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Sinsemilla on <span class="date_text">11-26-2005</span> <span class="time_text">02:10 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I take it your guild hasn't finished the "Capturing Day & Night" quest. =P</span><div></div>

[x0rtrun]

What kind of gear do you have? If it's not up to par, you'll get whumped. What con mobs are you fighting? If it's high yellow or orange up arrow, you'll probably get whumped. Since most of our adepts are damage orriented, they don't make as much a difference to tanking as good gear will. And if you're fighting something out of your league, you're obviously gonna feel the beats. <span><blockquote><hr>superdave wrote:<div>i seem to havein diffculty tanking group mobs. i have all taunts to adept3's and have 8 adept 3's and two master spells also. It seems to me i tank fine until i start tanking damage and healers cant deal with the huge spike in damage. The cleric's now reactives really dont help with me. If anyone have any suggestions on group mobs i really appreciate it. I would love to tank more.</div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[diamondma]

<DIV>i think alot of it has to do with buffs and not soo much the gear. ive got some decent gear scaled or alil better and terrorantula still 1 shots me when i have to save a healer. i can see why people think that monks cannot tank and that is because they arent in the right setup group buff wise to be tanking. monks can tank but we rely ALOT on other classes to make us able to, whereas with a guardian it does not take as much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>yes in certain situations monks might tank better than guardians but when u have to have certain classes on for a tank to be viable then of course the better choice would be the tank that doesnt need specific buffs to tank raids.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>believe me im not pro guardian but for the most part they are the better tanks because they are easy to setup a raid for and they are dependable compared to the other tank classes. if monks tanked better than guardians even 90% of the time u would see every uber guild in eq2 putting monks as mt's. ive yet to see this maybe im wrong but i cant see the top guilds making monks their mts. just my $.02</DIV>

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Skharr wrote:<BR>I don't think they agree mitigation completely, but they sure don't take it into account nowhere near as much as yellow cons. For example, when I pulled Sunchild, he one shot me with over 10000 auto attack hit, but our tank was taking only about +-6000. He had maybe 1200 mitigation more as I was lacking the buffs from MT group.<BR>Also, POF Barakah was hitting me for about 1500 when I had between 6000 and 7000 mitigation (porcupine + calloused skin when it was still possible to bypass the stun), but when the short duration buffs dropped, I was getting hit for 6k or more....<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Actually they do ignore mitigation completely. Our Plate tanks get hit for exactly the same as our mages on orange

[diamondma]

<DIV>i dont agree that oranges ignore mit. when our guard tanks bara and doesnt get one shotted by melee and then a mage pulls agro and gets one shotted for 10k melee dmg. wouldnt u think mit. has sumthin to do with it?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Colossaltitan]

All mobs take avoidance and mitigation into effect.  Whether they be gray or orange.<BR> <DIV>Orange however does have a -20% Chance or something like that for you to avoid / absorb.</DIV>

[Quijonsith]

<span></span><span><blockquote><hr>superdave wrote:<div>i seem to havein diffculty tanking group mobs. i have all taunts to adept3's and have 8 adept 3's and two master spells also. It seems to me i tank fine until i start tanking damage and healers cant deal with the huge spike in damage. The cleric's now reactives really dont help with me. If anyone have any suggestions on group mobs i really appreciate it. I would love to tank more.</div><hr> </blockquote></span>As far as tanking group mobs suggestions here goes.  Are you having difficulty withstanding damage or holding aggro? If you are taking to much damage, rotate through the mobs stunning different ones to give the healers a lil more time to heal you.  If you are having aggro issues, again rotate through the mobs hitting them and watch for Dragon Advance to proc. When I tank group mobs I'm always rotating through the mobs and hitting my group taunts when they are up.  If we have alot of AOE users I rotate steadily, using my single target taunt on the mob with the lowest HP.  If we have more single target people I will stay on that one target slightly longer than the other targets, but still rotate to here and there for those couple AOE's that every one has at times.  I tell my groups then to pick a target or use a scout or other fighter for main assist while I focus on holding aggro. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Quijonsith on <span class=date_text>11-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:18 AM</span>

[Sinsemil]

<font color="#339900"><i><b>Skharr i tanked those dragons better than a guardian with my Outward calm for AE's and  Tsunami / skin like mountain / boulder stance I may have missed on [Removed for Content] on epic x2 two mobs but i know for fact monks rocks if you do it right! </b></i></font> <div></div>

[Gaige]

I'm pretty sure oranges ignore mitigation/avoidance; all that matters against orange con is HP.

[Quijonsith]

with monks having the highest base HP of the fighters (according to the devs) would that give us an advantange tanking orange mobs? <div></div>

[Skha]

I'm not talking about the dragons, I'm talking about the zones they grant you access to.<div></div>

Gaige is correct. Orange con mobs are wacky right about now. And concerning Monks tanking over guardians....not really. A monks primary job in a tough raid aside from dps is a 12 second buffer. Either if one of the tanks drop, or aggro is lost, tsunami ftw. The monks avoidance doesn't matter for orange mobs so MT'ing over a guardian is foolish. I mean. outward calm will absorb 1 attack, tsunami will save you for 12 seconds, and Boulder = lost aggro (plus as mentioned above, mitigation is wacky on oranges). One could make the arguement right now that the mitigation difference between monks and guardians doesn't matter for orange cons...so they might tank equally if they have high HP. So there are situations where a Monk can, in theory, be just as good(or bad) as a guardian. For the majority of fights a guardian will always be a better choice. <div></div>

[x0rtrun]

<span><blockquote><hr>Quijonsith wrote:with monks having the highest base HP of the fighters (according to the devs) would that give us an advantange tanking orange mobs? <div></div><hr></blockquote>Not really, cause guards can self buff hp, and their gear may be more heavily weighted towards hp/stam to begin with. So the higher base doesn't really make all that much of a difference.</span><div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> x0rtrunks wrote: <P><SPAN>Not really, cause guards can self buff hp, and their gear may be more heavily weighted towards hp/stam to begin with. So the higher base doesn't really make all that much of a difference.</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Single target orange encounters are at the moment better suited to monk tanks imho.</P>

[Quijonsith]

If monks are supposed to have higher base hp than any other fighter and plate has as much or more hp than leather while guardians can buff their own hp even though they get to wear plate, then I'd say that's not balanced.  Not calling for a guardian nerf, especially considering that they (as far as i can tell) are almost all defense now.  Perhaps leather needs an hp boost. <div></div>

[Gaige]

<DIV>Base HP is naked and not buffed.</DIV>

[Colossaltitan]

All HP Buffs are target casts or group buffs.

[blueduckie]

only guardian hp  self buff  is a  sta buff. Sta is easy to max on raids tho and normally is over capped. Our main hp buff is group cast.

[Devolux]

I have tanked LJ, Cazel, some x2 epics in MajDul, and some named mobs in Gates with very good results.  I have found the best results with another 60 monk casting trancendant visions on me whie i tank.  Yes epic mobs lower our avoidance - however, with my 72% and their 72% (49% of the time - Adept3) I am VERY hard to hit.  On non epics I am almost impossible to hit.  Mitigration also lowers on epics. also - we have the best single target taunt and a 50% ability to increase agro by 250 per hit.  Dual wielding - I have yet to have anyone in a raid pull agro from me. Also - monks TV makes us the best MA in the MT group  - since we can give a plate tank our avoidance 49% of the time - nice! I have yet to tank 64/65 epics - but everything else has gone perfectly with me tanking.  Our 4300 ward, Tsunami, Bolder and Tower of Stone abilities give us lots of mit and the ability to not be hit.  The ward (ad3) is ourstanding on Epic mages, esp gorups with caster mobs.  MT Monk at raids needs to know exactly what the class can do.  Also with new FD - better believe that we can do some raid pulling - which now sounds almost essential. Raids dont have monks tank - due to stereotype and pre LU13 thinking - not actual performance. <div></div>

[LaoSh]

<P>Agreed man, Level 60 monk on Kithicor here.  I have found the same to be true, although I havent yet had the chance to MT on raids much.  Our ability to hold aggro is extremely good now, and we are much more capable of tanking.  <BR><BR>A neat example of our aggro maintaining capability is: (btw i dont have access to game at work so my numbers may not be exact, but i assure you they are very close if not)</P> <P>Level 59 Single target taunt at Adept III---Increases threat by 904-1111----recast timer----8 seconds</P> <P>Outcome--->maximum of 1111 every 8 seconds=138.875 TPS (Threat per second) "Capability"<--- this is a key word, as resists will not make this a true reality.</P> <P>Level 56(i think) Storm Stance at Adept III---50% chance on every successful attack made by caster to increase threat by 284----no recast timer---CONSTANT<-----This is huge!</P> <P>WHAT IS THE THREAT CAPABILITY OF THIS? Well in 8 seconds, inlcuding CAs and regular hits, factoring in our extremely high haste % capability, and our newly improved duel weilding capabilities, (I havent gotten a chance to parse this, but I can make an educated guess here), Im sure we could easily make a full round through all our CAs which is about 10 I believe, each being .5 cast time= only 5 seconds, and Lunging Mongoose has a chance to make 5 attacks itself.......5 seconds only thats 14 possible hits only from CA, now imagine your chance at 2 regular attacks between almost every one of those attacks, so that is another 10 possible regular hits atleast I would say in that first 5 seconds.    so 14+10 minimum I would say in 5 seconds, then u have 3 seconds of just regular melee to add after your CA are all recharging.....I would guess around another 8-10 hits or so easy.</P> <P>so now you have in 8 seconds 14(CA)+ 20 regular possible attacks=34 possible attacks.  But dont forget RIPOSTE!, and if you wanna throw up Tsunami they are guarenteed for 12 seconds.  So I think in 8 seconds u could assume a couple possible attacks atleast from RIPOSTE bringing our total attacks possible in that 8 seconds to a conservtative estimate of 36 attacks.   MAN 36 attacks in 8 seconds? seems high, but we are monks!  Will look more into testing this for sure though.....as these are just educated guesses based on cast timers, etc.</P> <P>So 36 possible attacks, how many will be successful? Well obviosuly this depends on a number of factors. But I can tell you the Maximum threat capability, which can be compared to the maximum threat capability of our single target taunt, because as attacks may miss, our single target taunt may similarily be resisted, Right?</P> <P>Outcome---> 36 attacks with 50% chance to increase threat= a maximum of 36/2=18 procs of 284 increase in threat= an incredible 5112 of threat capability in 8 seconds--->639 TPS (Threat per second) "Capability"  <--- again this is a key word, cause as single target can be resisted, attacks can miss.</P> <P>So compare 639 TPS capability to 138 TPS capability, Storm Stance is huge and you better be upgrading it ASAP! Now I dont know how this compares to the TPS capability of other tanks, but.......</P> <P>Any way you look at it, Storm Stance is incredible at building aggro! No wonder I often pull aggro off guardians not even trying when I forget Storm Stance is on, and my DPS.  Oh yeah, DPS is a whole nother reason why our aggro capability is so good!  We do the most of that too!</P> <P>Final Thought, Dont be suprised to see more monk MTs in more raids in the future and especially in Exp groups, and dont be afraid to take on this roll, I suprise people everyday, the word is out.  </P> <P>Laoshin,</P>

[Colossaltitan]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> blueduckie wrote:<BR>only guardian hp  self buff  is a  sta buff. Sta is easy to max on raids tho and normally is over capped. Our main hp buff is group cast. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Guardians have two buffs that increase group's HP.<BR>Steely Conviction (Which you can choose master 2 and its +50 STA or something like that to group members).<BR>Second is: Lvl47 Return to Battle which at Master 1 is +557HP I think.</DIV>

[blueduckie]

Steely conviction is self only. Not group. And no you cant select it master 2. The choices are Tremor / Protect / Call of Defense / Quelling Strike. <p>Message Edited by blueduckie on <span class=date_text>12-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:13 AM</span>