What is your mit and avoidance?

[Thanous]

What is your mit/avoidance in percentage (as well as level)?  I'm going to run some stocastic tests and see how things work for different fighter classes. Thanks, <div></div>

[Thanous]

<div></div>Just as a background of what I'm doing... I'm using a Latin Hypercube Montie Carlo simulation package to run some numbers for how avoidance and mit really do relate to each other.  Using this, I can simulate thousands of attacks against your percentages in a few seconds.  With this, I hope to be able to come up with a relation between the importance of avoidance and mit that we can all relate to and live with.  Granted, this will only be valid for fights that are your level, no arrow, non-heroic. Here's a link to see what I've done so far in case you think this might be a witch hunt.  I am just trying to understand the numbers and what they mean for each of us. <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=20073" target=_blank> Link B Here</a> <div></div><p>Message Edited by Thanous on <span class=date_text>09-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:01 PM</span>

[Nemi]

<P>Any test you do will be fundamentally flawed. Why? Quite simply because the combat result is dependant on many more factors that just the Avoidance % and Mitigation % score on your persona.</P> <P>For instance, you have absolutely no idea how con colour affects the %'s. </P> <P>Nor do you know what combat arts sub-classes use during combat, be it stuns, stifles etc. </P> <P>Short use, long reuse buffs also affect combat since it generally only lasts 1min but would skew the infinate time test.</P> <P>DPS output also affects combat, as well as chance to hit, mob being fought.</P> <P>Quality of combat art effects things.</P> <P>So, comparing 2 numbers whilst informative does not allow you to accurately model any relationship between the subclasses.</P>

[Thanous]

<div></div>Nemi, All of those are very valid, and I accept those arguements.  I state that this is only for melee defense, auto attack NPC damage.  No casting, no resists other then defense stats.  Now, is that practical?  No, it is not.  If you choose not to provide information based upon that, it is cool with me. However, the most noise lately has been coming off those two numbers.  I'm not trying to make arguements on who is better then who, as we all know it becomes a complicated arguement very quickly.  I just want to understand how those two simple numbers do affect each class. Because of that, my test is not flawed.  It is flawed if you try to apply it to a scope greater then which it is applicable though. FYI, Pasted your reply into the top of the thread I linked to as a warning/disclaimer, as well as my reply.  It is a very important point to make. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Thanous on <span class=date_text>09-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:15 PM</span>

[bonesbro]

Going from memory, I think I have about 28% mitigation and 60% avoidance.  I can temporarily buff myself up a bit higher, but not much.

[Tilane]

<DIV>37,1% mitigation , 63.3 avoidance at lvl 52 in defensive stance winding dragon </DIV> <DIV>30.3% mitigation , 50.1 avoidance at lvl 52 in offensive stance Halcyon Blessing</DIV>

[Thanous]

Ok, while in <b><u>Defensive Stance</u></b> Mean Taken    23.12888505        Percentile    Taken 0.05    0 5    0 10    0 15    0 20    0 25    0 30    0 35    0 40    0 45    0 50    0 55    0 60    0 65    46.63220522 70    54.25937634 75    58.38868408 80    62.17776565 85    65.316515 90    69.23257212 95    73.63554119 99.5    83.18967335 Damage that hits... Mean Taken    62.89990818        Percentile    Taken 0.05    29.32171215 5    47.37274058 10    50.80441736 15    53.12081843 20    54.95127548 25    56.53286714 30    57.94324425 35    59.26205833 40    60.50571827 45    61.70885624 50    62.89583527 55    64.0816962 60    65.29013687 65    66.52995627 70    67.84623961 75    69.26298641 80    70.83448811 85    72.66334822 90    74.9895428 95    78.41513086 99.5    87.18468944 Little bit of commentary...looks a lot like a standardly buffed Guardian on the mean value.  When you get hit, it hurts a lot worse but don't get hit nearly as often (as expected). In <b><u>Offensive Stance</u></b> Mean Taken    34.85223538        Percentile    Taken 0.05    0 5    0 10    0 15    0 20    0 25    0 30    0 35    0 40    0 45    0 50    0 55    56.280638 60    60.78668982 65    64.24228737 70    67.05916916 75    69.81637359 80    72.53623009 85    75.20418157 90    78.65435184 95    83.22503083 99.5    94.74686901 Damage actually taken... Mean Taken    69.70445808        Percentile    Taken 0.05    33.05405545 5    52.5005645 10    56.30072068 15    58.86169178 20    60.89553659 25    62.64691209 30    64.20823497 35    65.65882442 40    67.04931432 45    68.38537603 50    69.69464853 55    71.01148387 60    72.34412292 65    73.72593974 70    75.17177968 75    76.75018973 80    78.49495801 85    80.5269632 90    83.07673296 95    86.88722891 99.5    96.29501088 Again, I've seen Guardians with simular means.  The median behavior however is different for both classes though.  It would scare me to try and tank a long fight with your offensive stance, I'll say that much! <div></div>

[x0rtrun]

Trust me, fights don't last long while in offensive stance. Someone hits the floor pretty quickly. <div></div>

[Thanous]

See, this is why I'm trying to do this.  Honestly, I do play a guardian, but I'm not going to complain about other classes because I don't play those classes.  I'm trying to use these numbers to educate myself and others after the revamp.  Any more data from you all would be very much appriciated. <div></div>

[woo]

<DIV>67.1% avoidance, 34.2% mitigation</DIV> <DIV>42 monk</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>btw you CAN tell how much con color affects avoidance.</DIV> <DIV>heres how you test it:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>when your about 90%-99% ding'd, write down your avoidance #s (make sure all your skills are maxed)</DIV> <DIV>right after you ding, your avoidance skills will still be that of 1 level behind.  so when you check your stats, your avoidance will be lower because it is against a higher level mob.  usually its like 2% lower.  thats the difference between LVLx.9% and LVLy.0 though.  so im pretty sure each mob level difference is about 3-4% avoidance difference.</DIV>

[woo]

<DIV>double post</DIV><p>Message Edited by woode on <span class=date_text>09-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:06 AM</span>

[Thanous]

Thanks for the tip. As for your results... I have no idea your level or buffs, but here ya go... Mean Taken    32.91209796        Percentile    Taken 0.05    0 5    0 10    0 15    0 20    0 25    0 30    0 35    0 40    0 45    0 50    0 55    53.26068562 60    57.80198458 65    60.84377266 70    63.59370198 75    65.97880268 80    68.45034917 85    71.05904508 90    74.08740942 95    78.27716315 99.5    88.67061701 Damage taken... Mean Taken    65.80274707        Percentile    Taken 0.05    33.12390464 5    49.5510664 10    53.14715832 15    55.56991873 20    57.48316611 25    59.13998454 30    60.61857147 35    61.99263905 40    63.29702833 45    64.55487133 50    65.78996899 55    67.03945619 60    68.29809626 65    69.59543148 70    70.97565875 75    72.45286124 80    74.10031684 85    76.02572076 90    78.43947172 95    82.01472777 99.5    91.22370545 <div></div>

[bonesbro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thanous wrote:<BR>See, this is why I'm trying to do this.  Honestly, I do play a guardian, but I'm not going to complain about other classes because I don't play those classes.  I'm trying to use these numbers to educate myself and others after the revamp.  Any more data from you all would be very much appriciated.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>A good goal.  I would also consider including the standard deviation - avoidance tanking is a bit more risky than mitigation tanking because of damage spikes.  Miss a couple of blocks and you took four hits in a row with 30% mitigation instead of 50%, which gives healers a frowny face and your xp bar a reddish tinge.

[Thanous]

Thanks for the feedback, I can do that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[zabor]

i have no clue what all those numbers mean <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Thanous]

This is done using a random number generator.  I have it set so that a normal (bell) distribution with a average of 100, a minimum of about 50, and a max of about 150 will give me inputs as damage.  I then take that damage, and again using the random number generator, throw out or keep that trial's damage depending on if it is avoided or not (avoided at the %'age rate provided by players).  After that, if the damage makes it thru being avoided, I mitigate it by the percentage provided by players (if raw mitigation and level are provided, the percentage= mitigation/(level*100)). Now, I do this at least 5000 times.  Basicly, I simulate the same creature, a creature your level, sucessfuly swinging at you 100 times for random amounts of damage, then process how much damage you actually take.  The outcome is a curve of how likely a value is, as well as means, standard deviations, and such. What I've been pasting in is the percentiles and the damage at that percentile.  What you'll notice is on the first set of percentiles, you see that no damage is done at any percentile that is below the avoidance percentage.  After that, it is a matter of mitigation against the damage that was done on any swing. The second chart is just simply if you avoided no swings.  If everyone hit, what would the curve look like.  It is a raw measure of mitigation.  Where the second chart can pertain to avoidance is looking at the differenece between the first mean value and the second mean value.  That difference is all provided by avoidance.  Does that help at all? <div></div>

[Zarvax]

<P>63.4% avoidance, 37% mitigation in tank stance at level 54</P> <P>52.2% avoidance, 32.2% mitigation in offensive stance at level 54</P> <p>Message Edited by Zarvax on <span class=date_text>10-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:14 AM</span>

[Thanous]

<span><blockquote><hr>Zarvax wrote: <p>63.4% avoidance, 37% mitigation in tank stance at level 54</p> <p>52.2% avoidance, 32.2% mitigation in offensive stance at level 54</p> <p>Message Edited by Zarvax on <span class="date_text">10-02-2005</span> <span class="time_text">11:14 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote></span><u><b><span>63.4% avoidance, 37% mitigation in tank stance at level 54 </span></b></u><span>Mean Taken    23.08524424        Percentile    Taken 0.05    0 5    0 10    0 15    0 20    0 25    0 30    0 35    0 40    0 45    0 50    0 55    0 60    0 65    47.14497775 70    54.58478029 75    58.6055409 80    61.93948323 85    65.09301278 90    68.39755458 95    73.63936774 99.5    83.90258991</span><u><b><span> </span></b></u><span>Damage Taken Mean Taken    63.00018491        Percentile    Taken 0.05    32.86104371 5    47.45295853 10    50.87908991 15    53.20262507 20    55.03103997 25    56.62478243 30    58.04286899 35    59.33918939 40    60.60511662 45    61.8075844 50    62.9981196 55    64.18107959 60    65.38833404 65    66.64103014 70    67.94792448 75    69.37033594 80    70.95116817 85    72.77965909 90    75.0967428 95    78.4757952 99.5    87.19898695 </span><b><u><span>52.2% avoidance, 32.2% mitigation in offensive stance at level 54</span></u></b><span> Mean Taken    32.43794716        Percentile    Taken 0.05    0 5    0 10    0 15    0 20    0 25    0 30    0 35    0 40    0 45    0 50    0 55    51.64810612 60    57.52810665 65    61.27569272 70    64.55560054 75    67.56829509 80    70.10370873 85    72.81075436 90    76.11082281 95    80.90550205 99.5    91.63839871 Damage Taken Mean Taken    67.80419345        Percentile    Taken 0.05    36.27860788 5    51.04479942 10    54.75394121 15    57.25736157 20    59.23279466 25    60.92695826 30    62.46507521 35    63.87601109 40    65.2137904 45    66.52098695 50    67.78643767 55    69.07669459 60    70.37205991 65    71.71048579 70    73.12730206 75    74.64610906 80    76.35741881 85    78.33673309 90    80.83102842 95    84.51222584 99.5    94.03274965 </span><u><b><span></span></b></u><div></div>

[x0rtrun]

Lvl 46 offensive: 28% mit and 53.5% avoid balanced: 30.6% mit and 58.4% avoid defensive: 33.8% mit and 64.6% avoid <div></div>