Hmm. Brawlers/Monks/Bruisers are getting higher HP in exchange for Lower Power..

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Just read that on the Test Server notes. Brawlers are recieving a slightly higher base HP but are getting a slightly lower base power pool than Warriors and Crusaders.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well I think this is a good thing, but I end up running out of power fast enough as it is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(is it me or are monks *SUPPOSE* to burn power in order to tank? I mean I just cannot balance myself to take my time when fighting. I always just chain all my attacks as soon as they refresh. I see no point not to.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do hope this goes live though.</DIV>

[Nefari]

<div></div>I eliminate any CA that only does dmg.  Several of our CA's have a very poor dmg-mana ratio.  Unless the group is seriously hurting for DPS, and excepting Flying Dragon, if it doesn't interrupt, stun, or stifle, it stays in the bag while I'm tanking. That being said, of course it will all change after the 13th <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Nefalu Bald Monk of Halcyon Affinity <div></div><p>Message Edited by Nefarien on <span class=date_text>09-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:59 PM</span>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nefarien wrote:<BR> <BR>Unless the group is seriously hurting for DPS, and excepting Flying Dragon, if it doesn't interrupt, stun, or stifle, it stays in the bag while I'm tanking. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Bingo.  Your job is to hold aggro, not spam CAs and do damage.<BR>

[Reposa]

<span><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Nefarien wrote: <div></div>Unless the group is seriously hurting for DPS, and excepting Flying Dragon, if it doesn't interrupt, stun, or stifle, it stays in the bag while I'm tanking. <hr> </blockquote>Bingo.  Your job is to hold aggro, not spam CAs and do damage. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Problem.. We can't hold agro.  As of a few days ago, while spamming CA's and taunts, with Dragon Advance on, while on Beta (all adeptI on a buffed up level 55 Monk), I was constantly losing agro to everyone else except healers in my group.  Maybe that's their problem.. but if my job is to hold agro, then its someone elses job to spam their skills and do damage.  There appears to be no balance between the two.. at least for Monks.. Also, I can't find the post Moorgard made about how fighters are going to change.. but I remember it saying that Brawlers will hold agro by doing damage.. and since our damage isn't there.. I don't know what else to say. Anyway, I know a lot of stuff is changing daily on Beta, so I'm not going to knock anything until I've tested with Led on Live.. so I hope the agro issues get fixed. Well.. might as well get back on topic and address the HP/Power thing... lol sorry..  The HP increase and power loss won't be overly noticable.  I do like the fact that we will have higher base HP though.. given the fact that the damage done to Brawlers comes in large spikes, as apposed to a Crusader or Warrior, who take a lot less damage more often, making it easier for healers to fill a heavy tanks HP.</span><div></div>

[Jezekie]

<span><blockquote><hr>Reposado wrote:<span> Maybe that's their problem.. but if my job is to hold agro, then its someone elses job to spam their skills and do damage.  There appears to be no balance between the two.. at least for Monks.. </span><div></div><hr></blockquote>People need to learn to play better. I forsee one of the biggest issues post-revamp will be with Scouts, Mages and Fighters over aggroing unitil they learn to pace them selfs and average out the use of their various Spells/Arts. After all, it takes two to tango.</span><div></div>

[Kota]

i agree with jez.  i always get a kick out of ppl that atk a mob before the tank has even finished the pull, or positioned the mob.  i think some ppl see stealing aggro as a sign of "uberness".  "i'm so bad-azz, so and so can't keep aggro off of me".  eventually they'll learn, that all they are doing is creating problems.  anyway, /cheer hp. <div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nefarien wrote:<BR> <BR>Unless the group is seriously hurting for DPS, and excepting Flying Dragon, if it doesn't interrupt, stun, or stifle, it stays in the bag while I'm tanking. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Bingo.  Your job is to hold aggro, not spam CAs and do damage.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Gee, I could have sworn that our job as tanks is to agro... BY DOING DAMAGE...</DIV>

[Skha]

<span><blockquote><hr>Jezekiell wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Reposado wrote:<span> Maybe that's their problem.. but if my job is to hold agro, then its someone elses job to spam their skills and do damage.  There appears to be no balance between the two.. at least for Monks.. </span><div></div><hr></blockquote>People need to learn to play better. I forsee one of the biggest issues post-revamp will be with Scouts, Mages and Fighters over aggroing unitil they learn to pace them selfs and average out the use of their various Spells/Arts. After all, it takes two to tango.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>I can't agree with this, primary role of fighters is to stay alive and hold agro. You can tell others to hold back all you want but they only thing that will happen is that they will hate you and they will want someone who holds agro better to tank, so you'll earn the reputation of a sucky tank. Tank who can't hold agro is limiting the potential of 15 or so other people on raids so in the end such a tank will never be the first option.</span><div></div>

[ganjookie]

<span><blockquote><hr>Skharr wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Jezekiell wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Reposado wrote:<span> Maybe that's their problem.. but if my job is to hold agro, then its someone elses job to spam their skills and do damage.  There appears to be no balance between the two.. at least for Monks.. </span><div></div><hr></blockquote>People need to learn to play better. I forsee one of the biggest issues post-revamp will be with Scouts, Mages and Fighters over aggroing unitil they learn to pace them selfs and average out the use of their various Spells/Arts. After all, it takes two to tango.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><font color="#ffff99">I can't agree with this, primary role of fighters is to stay alive and hold agro. You can tell others to hold back all you want but they only thing that will happen is that they will hate you and they will want someone who holds agro better to tank, so you'll earn the reputation of a sucky tank. Tank who can't hold agro is limiting the potential of 15 or so other people on raids so in the end such a tank will never be the first option.</font></span><div></div><hr></blockquote>I am doubt you will gain a bad rep for that.  People can see what the otehrs are doing to gain aggro, and the fault will fall back upon them.  You WILL have a couple of people, (probably the over zealous aggroers friends) who will look down on you, but then again its just pixel over the internet right. </span><div></div>

[Durlinn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Skharr wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jezekiell wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Reposado wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR>Maybe that's their problem.. but if my job is to hold agro, then its someone elses job to spam their skills and do damage.  There appears to be no balance between the two.. at least for Monks.. <BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>People need to learn to play better. I forsee one of the biggest issues post-revamp will be with Scouts, Mages and Fighters over aggroing unitil they learn to pace them selfs and average out the use of their various Spells/Arts.<BR><BR>After all, it takes two to tango.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I can't agree with this, primary role of fighters is to stay alive and hold agro. You can tell others to hold back all you want but they only thing that will happen is that they will hate you and they will want someone who holds agro better to tank, so you'll earn the reputation of a sucky tank. Tank who can't hold agro is limiting the potential of 15 or so other people on raids so in the end such a tank will never be the first option.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry Skharr, you couldnt be more wrong. Aggro control is the responsibilty of the entire group. Yes, the tank better be putting his taunts to good use, but those damage dealers arent given hate reducers for no reason. And if you dont know the good versus bad times to cast, you should reroll a melee. I cant count how many times a noob mage in my group blasts the mob before it even makes it to the group after pulled. Aggro control is never an issue with a group of experienced players. Jez was right on the mark. Except, maybe, it takes 2-6 to tango. ;r) <BR>

[Skha]

<div></div>Noone likes tanks that can't hold agro and you can't avoid being compared to other tanks which might or most likely will be better at at. So if all tanks are basicly equal at staying alive why, pick the one with sucky taunts? <div></div><p>Message Edited by Skharr on <span class=date_text>09-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:53 AM</span>

[Bladewind]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Durlinn wrote:</P> <P>Sorry Skharr, you couldnt be more wrong. Aggro control is the responsibilty of the entire group. Yes, the tank better be putting his taunts to good use, but those damage dealers arent given hate reducers for no reason. And if you dont know the good versus bad times to cast, you should reroll a melee. I cant count how many times a noob mage in my group blasts the mob before it even makes it to the group after pulled. Aggro control is never an issue with a group of experienced players. Jez was right on the mark. Except, maybe, it takes 2-6 to tango. ;r) <BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I have 'BERZERKER' looping in my head thnaks to your sig <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Bladewind]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Skharr wrote:<BR> Noone likes tanks that can't hold agro and you can't avoid being compared to other tanks which might or most likely will be better at at. So if all tanks are basicly equal at staying alive why, pick the one with sucky taunts?<BR> <P>Message Edited by Skharr on <SPAN class=date_text>09-02-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:53 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I think he was talking more about inexperienced players nuking on pulls, not using their hate reducers, etc...  The 'sucky taunt' argument is tired.  I've held aggro fine as MT from fighter 3 to monk 50.  Regardless of if you are a guardian with master taunts or a monk with app 1 skills, certain actions taken by your groupmates can gaurantee difficulty with aggro control.  Experienced players know and avoid these situations rather than blundeirng into them and then playing the blame game.

[Gaige]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV>Gee, I could have sworn that our job as tanks is to agro... BY DOING DAMAGE... <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>You, can do it your way.  But I did exactly 5 CAs when I tanked Zalak.  Silent Fist, Charging Tiger, AE taunt, Single Taunt, Quiet Purity.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the "sucky taunt" rants, I totally agree that ours are FINE.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've tanked tons of stuff and some of my new guildies in FoH when we are doing Nek 2.0 or when I did Zalak were OMG YOU TANK GREAT.  One of our warlocks was like "wow I can nuke way harder with you tanking than one of our backup guardians".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It has to do with knowing how to play as a tank.  Sure I've lost aggro a few times, but generally I never do.  I do what is necessary to stay on top of the hate list.<BR></DIV><p>Message Edited by Gaige on <span class=date_text>09-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:46 PM</span>

[Skha]

<span><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div> <div></div><div> </div> <div>I've tanked tons of stuff and some of my new guildies in FoH when we are doing Nek 2.0 or when I did Zalak were OMG YOU TANK GREAT.  One of our warlocks was like "wow I can nuke way harder with you tanking than one of our backup guardians".</div> <div> </div> <p>Message Edited by Gaige on <span class="date_text">09-02-2005</span> <span class="time_text">12:46 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>That's because you take 4 times as much damage as the guardian so the reactives generate massive hate for you. <span>:smileywink:</span></span><div></div>

[Reposa]

<span><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Cusashorn wrote: <div>Gee, I could have sworn that our job as tanks is to agro... BY DOING DAMAGE... <hr> </div></blockquote> <div>You, can do it your way.  But I did exactly 5 CAs when I tanked Zalak.  Silent Fist, Charging Tiger, AE taunt, Single Taunt, Quiet Purity.</div> <div> </div> <div>As for the "sucky taunt" rants, I totally agree that ours are FINE.</div> <div> </div> <div>I've tanked tons of stuff and some of my new guildies in FoH when we are doing Nek 2.0 or when I did Zalak were OMG YOU TANK GREAT.  One of our warlocks was like "wow I can nuke way harder with you tanking than one of our backup guardians".</div> <div> </div> <div>It has to do with knowing how to play as a tank.  Sure I've lost aggro a few times, but generally I never do.  I do what is necessary to stay on top of the hate list.</div><p>Message Edited by Gaige on <span class="date_text">09-02-2005</span> <span class="time_text">12:46 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Yea, on Live reactives give hate to the target, not the Cleric.. As a Monk, your taking a lot more damage than a heavy tank, so reactive heals are popping full every time.  Once DoF hits reactives will give all hate to the Cleric, making it even harder to hold agro.</span><div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Reposado wrote: <P><SPAN>Yea, on Live reactives give hate to the target, not the Cleric.. As a Monk, your taking a lot more damage than a heavy tank, so reactive heals are popping full every time.  Once DoF hits reactives will give all hate to the Cleric, making it even harder to hold agro.</SPAN></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, we've witnessed that first hand ;p<BR>

[Nefari]

<span><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote: <blockquote> <hr><div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <div>Gee, I could have sworn that our job as tanks is to agro... BY DOING DAMAGE...</div><hr></blockquote> The job is to hold aggro, how you choose to do it is up to you. I prefer the way that lets me end the fight with the most mana, so downtime is minimized. Nefalu Bald Monk of Halcyon Affinity</span><div></div>

[joliver]

I certainly dont believe Gaige is representative of your 'typical' monk.  I had trouble tanking until I got QP.  Wisdom of Zephyl didnt generate enough aggro. I guess what I'm saying is that the advice often given on these boards are assuming that you are 50+.  Shoot, HO's kick [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] till level 25 or so! <div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> joliver12 wrote:<BR>I certainly dont believe Gaige is representative of your 'typical' monk.  I had trouble tanking until I got QP.  Wisdom of Zephyl didnt generate enough aggro. <BR>I guess what I'm saying is that the advice often given on these boards are assuming that you are 50+.  Shoot, HO's kick [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] till level 25 or so!<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Not to mention he tends to poignantly disregard the oppinions of the casual player. I choose to remain level 48 out of a promise to help my guildmates (believe me. I'm at 99.97%. I've got about 40 quests waiting to be completed.) I don't have any Fabled or Mythical items. The best I wear is a Pristine imbued augmented tunic. My HP is 4000 exactly. I value my own friends over some Gi of Madness or 29.7 damage weapons.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not a raider. The closest I've ever come to actually raiding anything was Cauldron Hollow for the Ghoulbane quest. I admit I had fun being the highest level there (47) and I did not have a hard time containing agro, except for a couple stray lesser mobs from that dirge in the raid, but he had them under control just fine. I had to work to out-taunt him.) Of course, nothing gave experience since it was all grey.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Point is, I had to really unleash the damage abilities to help gain agro over those strays, because taunting alone was not enough, and it's not fair to assume that everything an Uber-Twinked level 50 does automatically makes it right.</DIV>

[jygygf]

<div></div><a target="_blank" href="../view_profile?user.id=117763"><span>Skharr</span></a> is right. In these games people perfer tanks that can snap agro quick. In EQ1, for example, SKs and Pallies could snap agro much faster than a Warrior (who had to stand there mashing taunt and taking dmg for a while before everyone else could engage). Ive seen groups take well played/equipped Beserkers (a medium tank) over warriors in EQ due to how poor Warriors were at getting agro.See, this is, in part, because of efficiency. Getting agro easily means more quick and efficicnet killing - this means more $ and exp. Also, it means that if another player gets a lucky streak of crits/hits and gets agro, the tank will be able to snap agro back fast. This is also very important.I agree that at times people have to be careful not to overnuke or what not but these types of requirements should not be put on the group all or even most of the time. Other than light tanks hitting their anti-taunts, the tank has to tank and he is primarily responsible for agro control.<div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV>Not to mention he tends to poignantly disregard the oppinions of the casual player. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Now, you can say that all you want.  But you need to consider something.  From 1 to 50 I played in a newbie guild where I was like 20+ levels ahead, and this was way before mentoring.  My entire grind I did in pickup groups.  This was when rares were REALLY rare.</P> <P>I started playing the day of release.  I joined FoH of May 12th, 2005.  So that means I played a little over 6 months as a casual, single grouping, family guild player.  Sure I power grinded to 50.  But I did so with mostly app IV and adept 1 spells.  I had all treasured gear.  I think when I went to FoH I had rare pants, two rare maces, and two rare fistwraps.  Everything else I had was treasured or heritage quest.  I had I believe 1 adept 3 (dragon stance) and 1 master (striking cobra).</P> <P>Yet, in all of these grind groups, in all of these heritage quest groups after I hit 50, I tanked.  I've always been good at holding aggro because I focus on it.  I've always done it the same way.  Singe taunt, AE taunt, group buff.  Stun/stifle (when I got it) and interrupt.</P> <P>In fact when I joined FoH I didn't even have the hex dolls.  I was fairly poor because all I did was help people with quests and do some harvesting.  I was the epitome of a casual player.  In fact I almost quit because server transfers weren't open and I wanted to raid, and I really wanted to be in FoH.</P> <P>So for the past 2 1/2, almost 3 months I've been in FoH and I have become a bit more hardcore and I have a lot more raid experience and better gear.  Especially my spells.</P> <P>If *you* want to say that my past 2 1/2 months in a raiding guild has totally wiped out and erased my 6 months of semi-casual gameplay, that's your perrogative.  But I think you are just stereotyping me because I'm a raider <EM>now.</EM></P> <P>But again, that's up to you.<BR></P>

[Nefari]

<span><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote: <div>Point is, I had to really unleash the damage abilities to help gain agro over those strays, because taunting alone was not enough, and it's not fair to assume that everything an Uber-Twinked level 50 does automatically makes it right.</div><hr></blockquote> ::shrug::  My taunts are Adept 1, I never bothered to upgrade them, and now just been too lazy to get a guildmate to make me ad3's.  As long as the people in my group are not over-nuking fools, I hold aggro just fine without using dmg-only attacks.  Dunno what to say, our experiences have just been different I guess. Nefalu Bald Monk of Halcyon Affinity </span><div></div>

[Jobeson]

I think by disregarding them he means your idea that monks should be the best tanks in the games bc you will it to be. I am a great tank btw at holding the hate on live.  But guess what I do it with stuns and dps and stifles for the majority of my hate.  They are removing our stuns dps and stifles.  How will we keep the hate?  I have master 1 taunts they are worthless.  Stuns + stifles + dps = monk tank.  not our taunts when they remove our stuns and dps and BARLY increase our taunts we will simply suck.  We will be guardians without taunts a worthless class. <div></div>

[Gaige]

<DIV>We still have stuns and stifles.</DIV>

[Nefari]

Correct me if I'm wrong Gaige, but IIRC from what I have read, the only stun we are losing is the one at the end of Lunging Mongoose?  And realistically, that wasn't much help while tanking....Mongoose hardly ever lands full on a ^^ mob while tanking. Nefalu Bald Monk of Halcyon Affinity <div></div>

[Reposa]

I always thought Mongoose was one of our best weapons.. Stun with Charging Tiger, Flank with Mongooose/Stun, Stun With Icy Talon, and pop a Silent Fist.. any combination of those abilities helped out a monk so much when tanking.. even on raid mobs without Mongoose.. but now we're pretty much meat shields without the shield <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Jobeson]

We are becoming a small percent chance to stun unless I dont understand the 30% chance to do this effect.  That the links you posted said.  I hope to god I am wrong here but we are losing one stun and the other 2 are getting nerfed and so is our stifle.  Please correct me bc I hope Im wrong gaige I will be much happier if we keep our 100% chance to stun for 3 seconds on the other 2 attacks. <div></div>

[Danan]

Stuns now show a small icon in the maintained window, this makes it alot easier to see when you can flank your target for other attacks without making your entire group having re-position.

[stfields]

<P>I remember discussing the issue of "hate is not only the MT's responsibility, but something everyone in the raid has to be mindful of" with a fellow raider months ago.  </P> <P>Each person has their own stance on this and it depends what their goals are.  My goals are to see all the content there is to see, beat the zones, then focus on gearing up for harder stuff later on.  </P> <P>When I first started raiding, it always seemed that the MT had poor control over the mob.  This was probably due to everyone's inexperience with raiding.  And we were all told to "hold back, hold back, hold back" on using combat arts and the like.  I had no problem with this myself if we were there for the first time.  Slow and steady wins the race, right?  </P> <P>But after we beat a certain instanced zone... the circumstances are different.  People might yell at the assassin that pulls hate and winds up getting half the raid wiped.  I would too.  But, if we are told to "hold back" on using certain combat arts... or turn off auto-attack, etc etc to help facilitate the tank keeping aggro, something is wrong.</P> <P>Why are we fighting this mob?  We beat the zone... we didn't come back just to see if the mob still existed.  We are here to get upgraded gear, master spells or adept IIIs.  Why do we want better gear?  To do more damage and heal more efficiently.  But if we are doing more damage with our new Master I Combat Art does that mean we should be turning off auto-attack to compensate?   If we got a new weapon, does that mean we no longer use certain combat arts in fear of getting hate? Is it really as simple as "the MT can only keep hate if each individual's DPS is less than X?"  </P> <P>I am grateful that even though monks are currently paper tanks, we can hold our own without raid tank buffs for a while so the MT can get hate back.  But, my point is that the first time in a DoF raid zone, maybe the monk will tank... and maybe he'll do a great job, but maybe they hold hate poorly and the scouts and nukers need to hold off on their DPS a little.  But, the next time in there, players will want whatever tank can hold hate the best and stay alive.  Because if DPS is not allowed to go all out, then why do we even bother to repeat raid a zone?</P>

[Nemi]

<P>It happened like that in Eq1.</P> <P>Warriors were the best tanks for soaking up damage with their huge HPs, in the end they were never used to tank mobs because they couldn't hold hate. Paladins and Sks took over the role of tank because they could lock aggro and never lose it. This made it infinitely easier for the group/raid and no risk ph4t exp.</P> <P>Warriors were consigned to the bench for about 9 months before SoE gave them a snap aggro skill and +aggro weapons.</P>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> stfields wrote:<BR> <P>Because if DPS is not allowed to go all out, then why do we even bother to repeat raid a zone?<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The *only* reason any of us have ever been going all out on raid zones is because reactive hate is broken.  No fighter has head over heels better taunts than the others. </P> <P>In DoF and beyond you will see aggro being a much bigger deal for everyone to deal with.<BR></P>

[JojoTheDog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nefarien wrote:<BR> <BR>Unless the group is seriously hurting for DPS, and excepting Flying Dragon, if it doesn't interrupt, stun, or stifle, it stays in the bag while I'm tanking. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Bingo.  Your job is to hold aggro, not spam CAs and do damage.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Damage is aggro.</P> <P> </P>

[Nemi]

<P>Damage is aggro yep, but state changes (stun,stifle,blur etc) and taunts provide far more aggro than DPS. When tanking, use stuns/stifles and taunts to hold aggro. Your power is better preserved than trying to tank and DPS at the same time.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Nemi on <span class=date_text>09-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:53 PM</span>

[joliver]

Heh, all I was trying to say that any advice given should also be prefaced with what level this advice is applicable towards. For instance, most monks dont bother with HOs except when getting some nice group HOs.  However, HOs are still a significant damage dealer in the low 20's. I'm a firm believer that tanking should really be a group effort and that aggro shouldnt be perma-locked.  That rewards smart play, imho. <div></div>

[Lathani]

<DIV>After silently watching and experiencing the changes in beta, I have to say that in my opinion monks have definately taken a step backward in overall desirability for MOST players.  (Gaige and a remnant of monks aside).  I don't see anything that really makes monks an equal choice to some other classes from purely a tank role, and with damage undergoing such a large decrease, I can't recommend the changes made to the monk class as being for the better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whining doesn't do any good, so I'm glad some are liking the changes, but I definately don't.  I have switched over to playing my Paladin. (The changes are nice for them, one of the better designed classes in my opinion).  I also have a wizard of level 25 I'm leveling up as a damage based class.  Just felt I'd express my opinions.  I realize some are liking the change to Monk, but it seems to be a minority and only those who really want to struggle as a main tank would be advised to go Monk ( unless some substantial changes are made).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please don't flame me.  I'm not flaming.  I'm expressing my opinion and how I feel about the changes now that I've had a chance to experience them.</DIV>

[Rohlstu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lathaniel wrote:<BR> <DIV>... have to say that in my opinion monks have definately taken a step backward ... <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>After today's patch to combat changes...AMEN.  I am sure they are going to change...I mean I hope...and pray...</DIV>

[Trei]

["... <span> I forsee one of the biggest issues post-revamp will be with Scouts, Mages an..."] No worries <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Our evade actually works now. </span><div></div>