Upcoming Combat Changes: Monk Stances

[Nerill]

<DIV> <DIV>I ran a lot of parses using all 3 Monk stances: Winding Dragon ( Defensive ), Spider Stance ( Balanced ) and Halcyon Blessing ( Offensive ). Here are my findings.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>( All fights were done in Lavastorm against Level 48 ^^ " a hardened colossus " using my Level 50 Monk "Banzai"&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Banzai has mostly T5 crafted armor with his tunic being fabled. Weapons are my Prismatic Baton and the Right Hand of Master McGill</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><U><STRONG>Winding Dragon (Adept I)</STRONG> w/ Everburning Fire, Quiet Purity and Control Breathing</U></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(This is our <U>Defensive</U> stance)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>% of battles won: 100%</DIV> <DIV>Ave Health left after fight: 16%</DIV> <DIV>Ave Power left after fight: 12%</DIV> <DIV>Ave DPS: 114 DPS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>Findings: This setup appears to be pretty good. I was very pleased with the results of using Winding Dragon w/ our other buffs. I would prefer to give up about 10% DPS ( to bring our average down to about 100DPS ) for <STRONG>slightly</STRONG> better mitigation with this stance. That way we still get hit as often but it is slightly lessened. This will allow those heals and procs that only work when we are hit to still provide a benefit to us.</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV><EM><U></U></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM><U></U></EM> </DIV> <DIV><U><STRONG>Spider Stance (</STRONG>Adept<STRONG> I)</STRONG> w/ Everburning Fire</U></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(This is our <U>Balanced</U> stance )</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>% of battles won: 85%</DIV> <DIV>Ave Health left after fight: 10%</DIV> <DIV>Ave Power left after fight: 0% ( Ran out of power every time )</DIV> <DIV>Ave DPS: 101 DPS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ff0000>Findings: This stance needs work ! The main problem with this stance is that it uses <STRONG>5 concentration</STRONG> and thus prohibits us from using our other buffs. This would explain our lower DPS and the fact that I always ran out of power. Without Quiet Purity my strength was lower which resulted in a smaller Power pool as well as decreased DPS. Spider Stance is currently <STRONG>a bad stance</STRONG> and not worth using.</FONT> :smileysad:</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><U><STRONG>Halcyon Blessing (App I) </STRONG>w/ Everburning Fire, Quiet Purity and Control Breathing</U></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(This is our <U>Offensive</U> stance )</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>% of battles won: 10% ( Doh ! ) :smileysurprised:</DIV> <DIV>Ave Health left after fight: 0% w/ the exception being a win with 3% health left</DIV> <DIV>Ave Power left after fight: Does it really matter when you are dead ? :smileytongue:</DIV> <DIV>Ave DPS: 125 DPS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00><EM>Findings: This stance is pretty much on the money ! You are definately not a good tank when in this stance ... AS IT SHOULD BE. You are giving up your ability to tank well for increased DPS. My only suggestion is a <STRONG>10 - 15 % increase </STRONG>in DPS when in this stance to bring our DPS up to the 140 DPS range. Other than that .... this stance and setup does what it should. ( Leave you very vulnerable for an increased DPS output ).</EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></EM> </DIV> <DIV>I hope that these findings will <STRONG>help</STRONG> the DEVs fine tune our stances and hopefylly put to rest many concerns of the Monk community.</DIV></DIV>

[Cwi]

Thank you for taking the time to parse and post your findings. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Could you perform a second set of parsings, this time using someone else to tank so that you can attack from behind the mob the entire time? I think its important to know the amount of dps we will do behind the mobs in the various stances. Thanks again. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Grabaan]

Excellent insight into how things are right now. I too would be interested in the ideas Brice mentioned. Thanks for spending your time on this, I look forward to further information on the subject, and even more so on the changes going live so I can "feel" them myself. <div></div>

[Eina]

<P>Hmm u did these tests on test/beta server?</P> <P>A 50 monk beating on a 48 ^^ mob and win alot using some def stances? hmm now seems we are already abit overpowered bcos as I knew, heard, we should not able to solo ^^ mobs especially it is only 2 lvls difference ,after revamp ,so to speak.</P> <P>I am not trying to get nerf, I am just wondering/curious ..or u mean u are lvl 60?</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Cwi]

I could be mistaken but I believe that part of the combat revamp is a change in the con system. I believe that in the combat revamp a ^^ isn't necesarrily a heroic (aka group) mob. <div></div>

[Swordmage]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cwiyk wrote:<BR>I could be mistaken but I believe that part of the combat revamp is a change in the con system. I believe that in the combat revamp a ^^ isn't necesarrily a heroic (aka group) mob.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>All the ^^ mobs I have seen on test have been heroic.</P> <P>There is a lot of power difference between the level 50 monk in handcrafted armor and app 2s that is supposed to have trouble with an even con solo mob and a well equipped level 50 monk with adept 1s and 3s. It seems that ^^ greens and blues may still be good targets for the demi-gods of the game.</P>

[Kelypto]

What about solo WITHOUT a stance?  I'm only a 31 monk, but I feel like I do better solo without any stance at all on.  Just self haste, toughness, and Karmic focus.  I'd be interested to know those numbers with no stance.

[bonesbro]

You will always want to be in some sort of stance after the combat changes. <div></div>

[Tstorm]

<span><blockquote><hr>Nerill wrote:<div> <div>I ran a lot of parses using all 3 Monk stances: Winding Dragon ( Defensive ), Spider Stance ( Balanced ) and Halcyon Blessing ( Offensive ). Here are my findings.</div> </div><hr></blockquote>Nicely done!  I've been going blind trying to figure out what stances are viable at my level (with 7 pages of combat abilities in the knowledge book this is difficult enough!) but then sorting through the combinations of defensive, offensive, and balanced versions is pretty mind numbing. I've stuck to using my tried and true Spider Stance on beta and it seems I may need to rethink that!  I do agree Spider Stance is limiting because it uses 5 concentration so hopefully one way or another it will get another balance pass from the Devs.  I hope the Devs are looking at all these types of monk gameplay (offensive, defensive, and balanced) and continuing to tweak because I know some monks are feeling like they're being shoehorned into a particular role that is much different than their current one on Live servers.  If SOE can work out the kinks in these stances, monks can favor a different playstyle as they wish. </span><div></div>

[Eina]

<P>Today I logon my beta monk (havent in a while), I found many new stuffs, havent test any, not much time. I saw one called whisper something, that seems will replace dragon stance (our current offensive one), is that the "winding dragon" u mention above?</P> <P>I dont have that Halcyon blessing, is that one above 48? bcos my monk is 48 only</P> <P>Have some other new spells, some that make u increase hate on every hit.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Eina on <span class=date_text>08-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:14 AM</span>

[Cwi]

<div></div><p><font color="#ffffff" size="2">Arrows in the target window indicate the challenge of an opponent:</font></p><ul><li><font color="#ffffff" size="2">3 down arrows = very weak opponent </font></li><li><font color="#ffffff" size="2">2 down arrows = weak opponent </font></li><li><font color="#ffffff" size="2">1 down arrow = below average opponent </font></li><li><font color="#ffffff" size="2">no arrow = average opponent </font></li><li><font color="#ffffff" size="2">1 up arrow = above average opponent </font></li><li><font color="#ffffff" size="2">2 up arrows = strong opponent </font></li><li><font color="#ffffff" size="2">3 up arrows = heroic opponent </font></li><li><font color="#ffffff" size="2">3 up arrows plus X2, X3, or X4 = epic opponent intended for 2, 3, or 4 groups in a raid</font></li></ul><ul><li><font size="2"><font color="#ffffff"><b>Solo creature with two up arrows</b> - A solo character in handcrafted gear and Apprentice III spells would likely lose to this foe, although forming a small group would make the fight much easier. It would be a close fight for a character in treasured gear with Adept I spells, and a moderate challenge for a solo character in legendary gear with Adept III spells.</font></font></li></ul>These are excerpts from <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=3941#M3941">a post MG made explaining the updated consider system</a>. So a single ^^ is not a technically a heroic mob. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[WhiteLig]

Well i was content with the balanced stances till I saw your findings.  Now though, it seems to me that they just dont make any sense at all.  Either the benefits need to be upped or the conc cost should be decreased.  I just hope that if they do fix it they dont balance it out by making def stance plus str/wis buff somehow less effective... <div></div>