combat revamp, monks as tank, taunt issue

[Perfidiou]

<DIV>I dunno if it's been up or not, but if we're supposed to be able to tank stuff well after the combat revamp, then our lack in dps and our lack in taunts will cause us to lose aggro.</DIV> <DIV>solo mobs are fine, but when things starts to hit the fan and there is many different encounter groups, then we can't really do anything.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I say give us a aoe taunt, a real one. or atleast reduce the recast timer on our group taunt.</DIV>

[Alaile]

<P>I agree!  I have asked the question about agro issues to those that are in beta.  I did not get an answer.</P> <P>That makes me wonder if it was not answered on purpose, because we can't hold agro without our damage, or maybe my question was just overlooked.  </P> <P>Maybe we will get an answer here <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Hamervelder]

<DIV>Ugh... I didn't make a monk to be a tank.  If I'd wanted a tank, I'd have made a guardian.  I like my high avoidance, low mitigation, and high dps.  </DIV>

[bonesbro]

Taunts aren't done yet.  They aren't even really started yet. <div></div>

[NamaeZero]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Perfidious1 wrote:<BR> <DIV>I dunno if it's been up or not, but if we're supposed to be able to tank stuff well after the combat revamp, then our lack in dps and our lack in taunts will cause us to lose aggro.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>They haven't removed anything as yet in the field of taunts. In fact, they've changed Dragon Stance to Proc 400ish aggro 15% of the time when you hit. Sounds like a whole bunch more aggro to me.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Perfidious1 wrote: <DIV>solo mobs are fine, but when things starts to hit the fan and there is many different encounter groups, then we can't really do anything.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I say give us a aoe taunt, a real one. or atleast reduce the recast timer on our group taunt.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>True, an AoE taunt would me nice, especially if it effected only engaged encounters. I kinda think it would make it too easy to make fighter 'bots though.</DIV>

[zabor]

<blockquote><hr>Hamervelder wrote:<DIV>Ugh... I didn't make a monk to be a tank.  If I'd wanted a tank, I'd have made a guardian.  I like my high avoidance, low mitigation, and high dps.  </DIV><hr></blockquote>haha poor guy <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> better reroll a scout

[Ner]

<DIV>I thinck monks should not be tanks but for some reson everyone has it in there head that caz they come from fighter class tehre a tank WRONG, they come from fighter class caz they are fighters ahh duhh if i really wanted to be a tank i would have been guardian. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE U REALLY NEED TO CHANGE MONKS TO DPS IN MY OPTION U HAVE SO MENY MONKS LEAVER BECUASE THEY ARE BECOMEING TANKS MORE AND MORE EVERY PACTH WHICH I THINCK I WRONG!!! we need to go back to DPS</DIV>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Neroc wrote:<BR> <DIV>I thinck monks should not be tanks but for some reson everyone has it in there head that caz they come from fighter class tehre a tank WRONG, they come from fighter class caz they are fighters ahh duhh if i really wanted to be a tank i would have been guardian. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE U REALLY NEED TO CHANGE MONKS TO DPS IN MY OPTION U HAVE SO MENY MONKS LEAVER BECUASE THEY ARE BECOMEING TANKS MORE AND MORE EVERY PACTH WHICH I THINCK I WRONG!!! we need to go back to DPS</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ha Ha.</P> <P>Anyway, we still have a lot of arts being revamped, taunts among them.  I'll post pics of the new ones when they are available.<BR></P>

[Cwi]

<p>I feel that Brawlers' intended role in Eq2 <u>was</u> adequately explained before release. However, at release and up until today Brawler’s have not been performing that intended role due to game mechanics. I’m really sorry to everyone that grew accustomed to the role that Brawlers have been filling since release. And I can understand how those people must be feeling betrayed and outraged right now.</p> <p><!-- [if !supportEmptyParas] --></p> <span>That doesn’t change the fact that the combat revamp is coming and, if its done right, it will put Brawlers in the role the developers always intended them to fill. Unfortunately, we (myself included) will have to either adapt or find something new.</span><div></div>

[wil]

something that has been bothering me about the upcoming revamp and monks being buffed/nerfed (however you want to look at it) in regards to their tanking ability/dps... what, if anything, is being done about our HPs? compared to any fighter/crusader in roughly equivalent gear, i am on the bad side of an approximately 1000hp difference. am i the only one that thinks this is a serious disadvantage to brawlers in our new (intended) role? <div></div>

[Secret-P]

<P>Monks are tanks, not dps. I think sony were pretty clear about that from the start.  I tank all the time, i tanked from level 1 - level 50 all the time for groups, and now that we are breaking into raid content, i have tanked some of the easier raid mobs with no aggro issues and no guardian buffs on. </P> <P>Stop whining that we losing dps, we will still have dps, more than the other tanks. If you were gonna whine about dps, go [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] the berzerkers out coz atm, they are far higher raid dps than monks. </P> <P>Some of our tanking power does come from dps. However, if i am main taning something that is gonna be a long fight, i amnt doing much dps. I am taunting, stifling, and buffing. And thats what worries me the most. A huge amount of my aggro comes from spamming buffs ... and that will be taken away. Sure they say they gonna increase threat on our taunts, and they adding 15 % chances to increase threat on likes of dragon stance (which is nice ). I am more worried on losing the buffing threat than losing dps threat.</P>

[Dfoley3]

<P>OMG SECRET! </P> <P>Raijen here, (Fujin lvl 70 monk on tarew marr ED)</P> <P> </P> <P>Anyways, just my little chime in, if it wasnt obvious monks were ment to tank then i take it you never saw the taunts we got every 12 levels, both single and group.  And im sure you never noticed the + defense stances we got.  Im 99% sure youve never seen parses of raid encounter dps.  A sawsh totaly un-fabled, without an fbss, and just adept3s and prismatic, will out dps a fully adept 3 monk with 8 fabled pieces of armor and over 6 fabled weapons.   (feebs i hate u).  Dont get me wrong, i parse 200 dps on any raid, but a swash with considerbly less quality weapons will do more dps and easier. </P> <P>I mean if none of those things ever registered that we arent dps im not sure what it would take to convince you short of geting a brick with the work tank on it and throwing it a your forhead.  </P>

[Secret-P]

<DIV>Huggles fujin =) ltns hehe</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(thread ninj)</DIV>

[Hamervelder]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> zaboron wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hamervelder wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ugh... I didn't make a monk to be a tank.  If I'd wanted a tank, I'd have made a guardian.  I like my high avoidance, low mitigation, and high dps.  </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>haha poor guy <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> better reroll a scout<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It's looking more and more that way, isn't it?  I don't know who to blame - the nerds at Sony, or the nerds who whined about their rangers not being uber at everything.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P>

[Hamervelder]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dfoley323 wrote:<BR> <P>OMG SECRET! </P> <P>Raijen here, (Fujin lvl 70 monk on tarew marr ED)</P> <P> </P> <P>Anyways, just my little chime in, if it wasnt obvious monks were ment to tank then i take it you never saw the taunts we got every 12 levels, both single and group.  And im sure you never noticed the + defense stances we got.  Im 99% sure youve never seen parses of raid encounter dps.  A sawsh totaly un-fabled, without an fbss, and just adept3s and prismatic, will out dps a fully adept 3 monk with 8 fabled pieces of armor and over 6 fabled weapons.   (feebs i hate u).  Dont get me wrong, i parse 200 dps on any raid, but a swash with considerbly less quality weapons will do more dps and easier. </P> <P>I mean if none of those things ever registered that we arent dps im not sure what it would take to convince you short of geting a brick with the work tank on it and throwing it a your forhead.  </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>There's no denying that scouts already do more dps than we do.  But SOE has seen fit to limit our avoidance, lower our dps, AND we're still going to have less mitigation than scouts.  That's what aggravates me.  I played a monk because they're so radically different than other fighters.  Now, it seems that they're going to get shafted just like the rest of the fighters.  And as far as raids are concerned, I could care less.  I really don't care who does more damage in a fight - we're all on the same team.  But I <EM>do</EM> care about being able to hold my own solo.  The changes so far make it look like that's not going to be happening, or at least not as well.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Perfidiou]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Anyway, we still have a lot of arts being revamped, taunts among them.  I'll post pics of the new ones when they are available.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>could you do that man? I would really appreciate that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Secret>>> the post wasn't really about the dps nerf, it was about our taunts. The dps helps us to hold aggro, but that's another story.</DIV> <DIV>The thing I'm talking about is that we have TWO taunts. one solo and one group. our group taunt has a 30 sec recast timer. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let's paint up a scenario here... If you're tanking a group of mobs and you use your group taunt to get them all on you. then your single taunt to make sure that the mob you're all attacking stays on you. Then another group comes walking into the camp.</DIV> <DIV>Your group taunt is down for another 20 seconds... there are 4 mobs that just added to the fight. You use your single taunt to get one of them on you, the other 3 will charge the healer or sumshiet. The healer dies and you all wipe...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's the reason as to why I feel that we need more/better taunts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Solo mobs ain't an issue, it's in group situations like this where we simply won't cut it.</DIV>

[Secret-P]

Perf - the actual point in my post was about losing all our buffs for aggro. If i was tanking and a second grp pathed in while my 20 sec taunt was down, atm i would have group buffed the second they aggrod thus pulling them onto me and buying time for aoet to refresh. So my post, since these use conc etc now, was really my worries on that aspect.

[Lebr]

<P>I dont want more taunts thats a guardian (They told us we were tanks that  needed to do damage to help us hold aggro) If theyre going to add more taunts just changed our class name to guardian.  It seems to me that SoE is making everything vanilla, all i want is what i was told before i bought this game. We were suppose to be tanks thats true but a different flavor.  SoE needs to try atleast to stand by what they used as a selling point atleast for me it was a selling point.</P> <P> </P> <P>Brawlers  specialize in physical combat styles that bring them face to face with the enemy.  Favoring light armor and hand to hand combat tactics, <FONT color=#ffff00>brawlers have </FONT><FONT color=#ffff00>honed their bodies into potent weapons. </FONT><FONT color=#ff6600>(Sounds like a dps tank to me)</FONT></P> <P>Monks are disciplined combatants who specialize in martial arts. They hone their bodies to be nimble to avoid enemy blows, and to deliver clean <FONT color=#ffff00>effient counter attacks.</FONT></P> <P>So i believe it is our riposte skill that needs to be raised and add procs for hate,  nothing should [Removed for Content] off a  mob more than not being able to land attacks and having most of their attacks turned back on them.  Please SoE  think about it dont turn us into mind numbing button mashing taunting machines. </P> <P> </P> <P>I want to be a monk  dont turn me into a guardian.  Any way just my thoughts on this subject.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600></FONT> </P> <p>Message Edited by Lebru1 on <span class=date_text>08-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:29 PM</span>

[bonesbro]

Yeah, the first thing I thought when I saw the QP change was "crap, no more group buff taunt".  I'm especially worried about our lack of group/AE taunt after seeing the big increases in AE DPS for mages.  Combine that with the lack of reactive heal agro and, under the current unfinished system, there are going to be a lot of surprised mages on the first day of the revamp.  You won't be able to swing a dead gnome without tripping over a warlock corpse. <div></div>

[PureFe]

<DIV>Well... Unless they give monk a serious defensive boost there is no way a monk will even come close to tanking as well as a guardian .. Guardians outtank monks hands down.</DIV>

[Jobeson]

<div></div>This is very true as it is A majority of my hate comes from the huge ammount of stuns and stifles I do.  When you nerf all our stuns and stifles, the way we tank now, it will cause a huge gap in argo.  I have my master taunts already and they do help a lot but stunning a mob for 9 seconds and doing 3-4 taunts With an occasional heal for saving the target aswell as added hate. Monk are UBER at pulling argo off of a target at this time I honestly believe we are one of the best at it.  After this revamp when we are doing a knockback, completly usless on raids for our stun so that spell can be deleted unless simply for positioning a mob.  And all our stuns / interupts are only a small chance to actualy go off (the numbers I saw were less than 1/3 chance to actualy stun or stifle) We are going to need guardian style taunts to actualy keep the hate or to be a raid tank seeing as that seems to be the goal of soe and since the group buffs will not = hate we are gona be [Removed for Content].  You cant have a dps tank tanking without dps and without taunts I know soe knows this but honestly what do they plan on doing?  Are we going to be guardians in leather? <div></div><p>Message Edited by Jobeson on <span class=date_text>08-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:01 PM</span>

[Cwi]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p><!-- [if !supportEmptyParas] -->If all that was changing was the Monk class then it indeed would take a “serious defensive boost” for Monks to tank as well as Guardians. But they’re doing way more than changing only Monks. <!-- [endif] --></p><p>I’m not on Test but just read through all the various information about changes being made to all classes. Many Agility buffs are being removed or nerfed. The heavier a fighter’s armor the less likely they will be to avoid attacks. A Defense skill cap is being implemented. A mitigation cap of 80% is being implemented. All fighters are being given a certain type of damage that they mitigate better than others; for Monks that type of damage is mental. <span><!-- [if !supportEmptyParas] -->Root, stun, stifle, fear, and mez spells are now resisted based on the target's resistance to the damage type of that spell. Spells that cause those effects that are based on mental damage will give Monks an increased chance of resisting them. <!-- [endif] --></span></p><span>And all of this is still in testing. Just looking over the information that is out there I really do believe that all fighters will do comparative jobs of tanking against average group mobs. <span> </span>And I believe they’ll do the same against epic mobs, with each type of fighter being best or worse for different mobs. Just today I was told about a Monk tanking Vaz’Gok on Test and doing an excellent job. Without details about their gear or CA quality I can’t say whether or not that will be typical after the revamp, but at least it shows the ability for Monks to tank comparably to Guardians does exist. <span>:smileyhappy:</span> </span><div></div><p> Edit: Oh and to get back to the topic, I agree that I hope they really seriously consider how little taunting power monks currently have against groups. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Cwiyk on <span class=date_text>08-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:50 PM</span>

[LoneSham]

<DIV>I think half the monk community is not concerned about weither we will be able to tank like Guardians at all but rather, why should we be even bothered changing more towards the "Tank".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Heres a quote from a quote of Blackguard posted on VN Board.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"In response to a <FONT color=#c8c1b5>post on the VN Boards</FONT>, Scott "Gallenite" Hartsman explains why we decided to make the combat changes in the first place. I figured many of you may want to see that information, so here it is:<BR><BR><FONT color=#ff0000><B>Gallenite </B></FONT>posted:<BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE><STRONG>Shara</STRONG> posted: <HR> "...any chance you could tell us why the combat system is being changed in the first place? I have yet to see any clear reason for the complete reworking of the system, and I don't recall seeing mass petitions for it to be done - a few people will always complain about anything of course."<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>At its core, it's an issue of diversity, rewardability, and challenge.<BR><BR><SPAN>* Class diversity. </SPAN><BR><BR>Ensure that your final Subclass selection is the emphasis, emphasizing Archetypes less. (One example of this one is "Necromancers don't throw rocks just because they used to be Summoners.") Add new spell lines that truly illustrate subclasses, and alter the spell lines that made classes feel more generic. "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV> <DIV>so if my final subclass selection is the emphasis not the archetype, then why are we leaning towards the tanking concept like rest of the fighter types now? Seriously I am sick of all the "OMGZ I can tank more like a guardian now!!" type of responses. If you really want to tank with the big boys go play a plate class, please let monks be monks.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by LoneShaman on <SPAN class=date_text>08-09-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:01 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by LoneShaman on <span class=date_text>08-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:02 PM</span>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LoneShaman wrote:<BR> <DIV>please let monks be monks. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>What would that be exactly?  DPS?</P> <P>Because that's the role they got nerfed into in EQ1?  Well that nerf has been reversed afaik.</P> <P>Or do you mean let monks be Guild Wars monks, which would be healers?</P> <P>I'm not really sure what you mean.<BR></P>

[LoneSham]

<P>What I mean is what I said, let monks be what monks are now. The role monk plays in a group, the role monks plays in a group with a plate class fighter and the role monks play in a raid. I am sorry that english is not my first language but I didn't know it will be so hard to understand.</P> <P>"<FONT color=#6699ff>What would that be exactly?  DPS?"</FONT></P> <P>Why? If I wanted DPS I would of rolled an assasin/ranger or mage/warlock right? What I do love about monk is the diversity we have in sense of melee combats. If theres a plate class tank sure I can go behind the mob and deal decent damage, if not then I can take the role of been a tank just fine. Maybe we don't matigate damage better then a plate class fighter but my dps is enough to compensate.  As for the raid bosses I will leave that up to the guardians or the berserkers, after all thats not what monks are for for the last 9 months and sure is not what I wanted when I first started my monk.</P> <P>I don't believe when I first started playing Dev team from EQ2 have stated that all Fighter Archetype should be able to tank epics (<FONT color=#cc0033>and by blackguard's post archetype shouldn't even be in consideration, so the we should be able to tank because we are from fighter archetype argument is dead</FONT>), regardless of condition/type. Its only untill recently from the up coming CU that maybe soon monks are moving into that catagory, but personaly I don't know for all your monks who so looking forward to tanking epic raid bosses have been doing for the last 9 months, if you want to be the MT so bad there are other choises.</P> <DIV><FONT color=#6699ff>"<SPAN>Just today I was told about a Monk tanking Vaz’Gok on Test and doing an excellent job. Without details about their gear or CA quality I can’t say whether or not that will be typical after the revamp, but at least it shows the ability for Monks to tank comparably to Guardians does exist."</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6699ff><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN>Since when we need to compare with guardian regards to "tankabilities"? It sure didn't stated in the EQ2 manual and it sure didn't happen for the past 9 months in game. My advise is roll a guardian, then you will be in real level ground compare to another one, but as for me and many others we will like to keep our DPS thank you very much. Honestly I am glad that someone is looking forward to this (ok maybe i am not). Things in mmorpgs changes I have played enough to know that and accept that, but please don't speak it like it is the way it should be, nerf comes and nerf goes, some people like some people don't, the up coming CU if still continue goes to this direction is fine, I guess theres always WoW but this is by no means the RIGHT direction towards some people.</SPAN></DIV>

[Anasyn Silverdagg]

<DIV>I really enjoy my monk the way he is right now. I can solo very easily and also have a nice role in raids that I have been on. I dont think I have a huge role in a raid but have saved a nights worth of xp in groups and raids with my FD or my tanking ability the way it is now. I dont mind if they change us as long as have a purpose in raids, groups, and can solo as well as we do currently. Right now I kinda compare my monk with a ranger from eq. I know they have lots of differences and downfalls but i believe they have a lot of similar traits.  They both do good dps, not the best tank but can in a jam, and both have some unique skills which can come in handy. Has any guild ever tried to use stone stance the same way some guilds used ws back in eq? Most probably wont agree with the comparisons but maybe its just I feel comfortable with my monk now like i used to with my rangers abilities. And the stone stance ws question is something I have been thinking about. I enjoy my Monk now and hopefully nothing will change my mind later on. Cause I dont look forward to switching over to my mystic they complain more about their class then monks. lol</DIV>

[L1m]

<span><blockquote><hr>Dfoley323 wrote:<p>OMG SECRET! </p> <p>Raijen here, (Fujin lvl 70 monk on tarew marr ED)</p> <p>Anyways, just my little chime in, if it wasnt obvious monks were ment to tank then i take it you never saw the taunts we got every 12 levels, both single and group.  And im sure you never noticed the + defense stances we got.  Im 99% sure youve never seen parses of raid encounter dps.  A sawsh totaly un-fabled, without an fbss, and just adept3s and prismatic, will out dps a fully adept 3 monk with 8 fabled pieces of armor and over 6 fabled weapons.   (feebs i hate u).  Dont get me wrong, i parse 200 dps on any raid, but a swash with considerbly less quality weapons will do more dps and easier. </p> <p>I mean if none of those things ever registered that we arent dps im not sure what it would take to convince you short of geting a brick with the work tank on it and throwing it a your forhead.  </p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>just fyi..my monk is level 43 has only one piece of fabled gear and out dps rangers and swasshies which are level 45-46 with ease. Your telling us that we have tank stances, we also have dps stances, as well as feign death which i dont think any ..."real" tank would use, let alone having moves that miss unless your behind the opponent or he has to be stunned or frozen. Dont get me wrong monks can tank but the diversity of the monk being able to fit the dps role well was what interested me in the class the ability to hit high dps when i wanted to and tank better than any other class bar the plate tanks. If i wanted to just be able to fit the role of tank i would have gone platemail tank.</span><div></div>

[Secret-P]

<DIV>But monks will remain the higher dps tank.. so i dont get where this incesant whining over it is coming from.   Our auto attack damage will remain n a higher plane than that of the other tank classes.  And we certainly arent alone in haveing offensive buffs and fluff abilities.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We are real tanks. We were real tanks in eq1 even after the nerf. (especially afte the nice ykesha augs!) If you dont like it, i am sorry for yas, but these whine whine im a dps'er whine whine whine posts are wearing me out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Cwi]

<div></div><p>Blackguard’s post doesn’t say that by the time you reach your sub-class you’ll be filling a completely different role than that of your archtype. In his example he illustrates that necromancers don’t throw rocks just because they used to be summoners. But he doesn’t says they don’t perform the roles of their archtype at all. All sub-classes of an archtype are supposed to fill the primary role of that archtype. The key is that they perform that role through different methods and in some cases they perform other roles a little better or a little worse than their archtype typically does. Blackguard wasn’t saying that Monks are no longer expected to perform the archtype role of Fighters, which is tanking. None of the devs have ever stated that an archtype’s sub-classes are no longer expected to perform their archtype’s role. They have always emphasized that sub-classes exists to give players choices in how to perform their archtype’s role.</p><p>The reason I speak like this is the way things should be is because this is the way the devs have explained the archtype system since pre-launch, and they have continued to stand by this explaination. Its true that since launch Monks have not been performing their archtype role to the same degree that other sub-classes have, such as Guardians. I can’t explain to you why the Devs took this long to return the system to their original plan, only they can. I’m just trying to show that everyone that believes their Monk’s role is being changed without warning and without reason hasn’t done their research.</p><p>I feel that Brawlers' intended role in Eq2 <u>was</u> adequately explained before release. However, at release and up until today Brawler’s have not been performing that intended role due to game mechanics. I’m really sorry to everyone that grew accustomed to the role that Brawlers have been filling since release. And I can understand how those people must be feeling betrayed and outraged right now.</p><p><!-- [if !supportEmptyParas] -->That doesn’t change the fact that the combat revamp is coming and, if its done right, it will put Brawlers in the role the developers always intended them to fill. Unfortunately, we (myself included) will have to either adapt or find something new.</p><div></div>

[Perfidiou]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Secret-Pak wrote:<BR> Perf - the actual point in my post was about losing all our buffs for aggro. If i was tanking and a second grp pathed in while my 20 sec taunt was down, atm i would have group buffed the second they aggrod thus pulling them onto me and buying time for aoet to refresh. So my post, since these use conc etc now, was really my worries on that aspect.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>ok cool beans :smileyvery-happy:

[Perfidiou]

<DIV>ok this is my viewpoint on monks and why I went monk myself. Also which situations I find myself in now both grouping and raiding.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I went monk basicly because I DON'T want to be your average meat shield type of heavy plate tank. I wanted to be a good but DIFFERENT tank. I want to avoid hits with tricksy moves and use the opponents own strength against him. kinda judo style...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but as of right now I find myself tanking in groups, doing a decent job, but when the mobs are casters I kinda get [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] [Removed for Content]. I can't avoid magical attacks (can't resist them nearly as good as I can avoiding melee attacks) in a good way. So in those situations it takes alot out of the healer. </DIV> <DIV>Also if the mob gets in 2 critical hits in a row I might go down (as of right now I kinda blame wards for that, but that's not the point).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>in conclusion, I see myself as a decent melee tank, hell I can solo blue^^ giants in perma and emerge victorious with 80% health. but as I said, once a caster comes at me, I kinda suck as a tank. Yes I can stun and stifle and I have all those skills as master1's. But the mob will still get off a nuke every now and then, and when he does, I get hurt... badly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for raids, monks ain't a dps class. Say what you want, but we get out dps'ed but swashy's, assassins, wizzy's, warlocks, illusionists, coercers, necro's, conjurers, rangers, brigands and even bruisers (which too are supposed to be tanks, not dps so I prolly shouldn't be counting them as dps either <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In raids I stifle and stuns the mob(s), and I do it well.</DIV> <DIV>Sucks to only really have one duty in a raid, a task that I welcome tho 'cause of the fact that monks shouldn't be the best tank for every raid mob but shouldn't be our only one. I want to be the best class choice as MT for some mobs, but sadly I have to settle with our secondary duty since we simply can't tank raid mobs... no chance in hell ('cept for Gaige, but he's über so that's a different story <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so as my final words... I kinda like being invited to groups for dps purposes etc, but that's ain't what we were supposed to do from the beginning. I'd much rather see us become the avoidance tanks we once were meant to be. And hopefully when the combat revamp hit's us, we will :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ps. dunno if my post made any sense, it's 6:22am, I just finished raiding and have to go to school in a bit (pushing 50 hours atm) and I'm swedish so pardon my grammar etc.... .Ds</DIV>