DPS tanks - no problem.

[Owa]

<DIV>Check out <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=7330" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=7330</A>.  Seems both 'tankers' and 'DPSers' may be happy come September...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unless it's a joke....</DIV><p>Message Edited by annaspider on <span class=date_text>08-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:59 PM</span>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> annaspider wrote:<BR> <DIV>Check out <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=7330" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=7330</A>.  Seems both 'tankers' and 'DPSers' may be happy come September...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unless it's a joke.... <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm trying to get clarification but I haven't been around much and it is a weekend.</P> <P>But I doubt its what people are hyping it to be, although I could be wrong.</P> <P>If they do this it will warrant every subclass in this game to get an alternate subclass that performs a different role.</P> <P>I think if anything its simply being able to live in FP and use monk skills, or live in Qeynos and use bruiser skills.</P> <P>But, not sure why they'd do that.<BR></P>

[Owa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>But I doubt its what people are hyping it to be, although I could be wrong.</P> <P>If they do this it will warrant every subclass in this game to get an alternate subclass that performs a different role.</P> <P>I think if anything its simply being able to live in FP and use monk skills, or live in Qeynos and use bruiser skills.</P> <P>But, not sure why they'd do that.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I dunno if any other subclass in the game is as divided as Monks about what they want their role to be - look at our post count and think of how much of it has been over tanking vs DPS.</P> <P>Anyway,  if it <EM>is </EM>true I think it's a genius way of pleasing everyone. If it's not, I think it's a really effective method of [Removed for Content] me off! I can't decide whether to play my mighty 50 monk knowing he'll be tankified in September - or level my weedy bruiser only to find I could have just done the Scrapper quest. AGH! Some input from DEVS please!<BR></P>

[Jezekie]

All that text bid says to me is that it allows for Monks in Freeport and Bruisers in Qeynos, instead of forcing Monks to be Qeynos aligned only, and Bruisers to be Freeport aligned only. If the statement is true I'm sure they'll allow Assassins in Qeynos and Rangers in Freeport too and so on. There is nothing at all that would indicate that it's completely new classes or specific direction focused branches, nothing indicating a pure DPS focused Brawler, or a pure tank based Brawler. I don't get it where you got that silly idea from out of that small text bid.

[Owa]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jezekiell wrote:<BR>All that text bid says to me is that it allows for Monks in Freeport and Bruisers in Qeynos, instead of forcing Monks to be Qeynos aligned only, and Bruisers to be Freeport aligned only. If the statement is true I'm sure they'll allow Assassins in Qeynos and Rangers in Freeport too and so on.<BR><BR>There is nothing at all that would indicate that it's completely new classes or specific direction focused branches, nothing indicating a pure DPS focused Brawler, or a pure tank based Brawler. I don't get it where you got that silly idea from out of that small text bid.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Good point - it doesn't specifically state that anyone would be able to do anything other than change their home cities. However, the fact that the majority of people are inferring these 'silly' ideas from that bit of text goes to show that allowing the Brawler subclass to be given a choice of either focussing on DPS or Tankage  would be a pretty popular move, with plenty of  subscriber support.<BR><BR>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> annaspider wrote: <P>I dunno if any other subclass in the game is as divided as Monks about what they want their role to be - look at our post count and think of how much of it has been over tanking vs DPS.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Must not read the Pally, Zerker or SK boards much...<BR>

[Owa]

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> annaspider wrote: <P>I dunno if any other subclass in the game is as divided as Monks about what they want their role to be - look at our post count and think of how much of it has been over tanking vs DPS.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Must not read the Pally, Zerker or SK boards much...<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ok, you rumbled me - I don't actually read their boards much at all. But I<EM> can</EM> count and I <EM>can</EM> see that the monk boards have the largest postage...</P> <P>And the most posted-about subject? </P> <P><BR>DPS vs Tanking.</P>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> annaspider wrote:<BR> <P>Ok, you rumbled me - I don't actually read their boards much at all. But I<EM> can</EM> count and I <EM>can</EM> see that the monk boards have the largest postage...</P> <P>And the most posted-about subject?</P> <P>DPS vs Tanking.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well, that fact doesn't change the point that you can read the zerker forums on about any given day and see threads like "what do we have to give up to get the DPS we want" in their forums.</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=12495" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=12495</A></P> <P>There are TONS of zerkers who want to be DPS period.  They don't care about anything else.  Hell I guild with three of them.  If they were to give us "dps subclasses" the outcry from them at least for the same would be huge.</P> <P>And I wouldn't blame them.</P> <P>Which is exactly why I doubt this is what you guys think it is, and more align with what Jez and I assume.</P> <P>But its all guesses till a red-named guy posts, so I guess we'll wait and see.</P> <P>As for us having more posts than them, and the majority of the threads being DPS vs tanking: we have a rather outspoken community.  /shrug<BR></P> <p>Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on <span class=date_text>08-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:15 AM</span>

[Cwi]

<u>If its true</u>, you won't be changing home cities either. Bruisers will be given the option to become evil monks that live in FP, and Monks will be given the option to become good bruisers that live in Qeynos. - Disciple (evil monk): Players in Freeport gain the option to be a Disciple. Current bruisers are given a chance to do a quest to convert to Disciples. - Scrapper (good bruiser): Players in Qeynos gain the option to be a Scrapper. Current monks are given a chance to do a quest to convert to Scrappers. Personally, I think the UbiSoft store is using outdated information, since this is the only place these quests are mentioned. The devs haven't mentioned it, the official release information doesn't mention it and the DoF website doesn't mention it. Its possible they wanted to make it a surprise, but I just don't think so. <div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cwiyk wrote:<BR><U>If its true</U>, you won't be changing home cities either. Bruisers will be given the option to become evil monks that live in FP, and Monks will be given the option to become good bruisers that live in Qeynos. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, you wouldn't be changing your home city, but its the ability to be a Qeynos citizen with bruiser skills, which is basically the same thing.<BR>

[Owa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> annaspider wrote:<BR> <P>Ok, you rumbled me - I don't actually read their boards much at all. But I<EM> can</EM> count and I <EM>can</EM> see that the monk boards have the largest postage...</P> <P>And the most posted-about subject?</P> <P>DPS vs Tanking.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well, that fact doesn't change the point that you can read the zerker forums on about any given day and see threads like "what do we have to give up to get the DPS we want" in their forums.</P> <P>There are TONS of zerkers who want to be DPS period.  They don't care about anything else.  Hell I guild with three of them.  If they were to give us "dps subclasses" the outcry from them at least for the same would be huge.</P> <P>And I wouldn't blame them.</P> <P>Which is exactly why I doubt this is what you guys think it is, and more align with what Jez and I assume.</P> <P>But its all guesses till a red-named guy posts, so I guess we'll wait and see.</P> <P>As for us having more posts than them, and the majority of the threads being DPS vs tanking: we have a rather outspoken community.  /shrug<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I know ALL about Berserker DPS anxiety. That's why I started a Monk. Now I'm starting to get Monk DPS anxiety so I'm starting a Bruiser. But wait...what if there IS a Scrapper class and they do better DPS? Argh! When will this hellish circle of torture ever end?</P> <P><EM>(And DON'T say 'when you roll a Scout!')</EM></P> <P> </P>

[KeenaMoonphy]

<P>Whaaaa? Why would SoE split a subclass? This makes no sense.  I tend to agree with Jez and Gaige on this issue. I do not think this is a DPS monk/brawler option here. I think it's just a city change..but if that is true, why cant we just quest to join FP and the bruisers to Qeynos. And if that is the case, why arent Mystics/Defilers or any other good/evil aligned subclass being offered the same options?</P> <P>We definately need more input. SoE, mind throwing us a bone?</P>

[Cwi]

<div></div>Before release the devs had originally told us that both Monks and Bruisers would be able to live in Qeynos and Freeport. Then a while before release they changed that, and said Monks would be Qeynos only and Bruisers would be Freeport only. They cited some lore about Lucan seeing monks as a threat to his control of the city because monks valued order. So, don't think of these proposed classes as two new subclasses, think of them as now allowing Monks and Bruisers to exist in both cities, just with different names depending upon where they live. But I stil think this is outdated information that UbiSoft either forgot or wasn't to told to remove from their ad. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div><p>Message Edited by Cwiyk on <span class=date_text>08-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:50 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cwiyk wrote:<BR> Before release the devs had originally told us that both Monks and Bruisers would be able to live in Qeynos and Freeport. Then a while before release they changed that, and said Monks would be Qeynos only and Bruisers would be Freeport only. They cited some lore about Lucan seeing monks as a threat to his control of the city because monks valued order.<BR><BR>So, don't think of these proposed classes as two new subclasses, think of them as now allowing Monks and Bruisers to exist in both cities, just with different names depending upon where they live.<BR><BR>But I stil think this is outdated information that UbiSoft either forgot or wasn't to told to remove from their ad. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <P>Message Edited by Cwiyk on <SPAN class=date_text>08-07-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:50 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Umm.. I've been hanging around these boards long before Beta came out. Moorgard and the other developers never said that Brawlers would be playable in both cities. He questioned if monks would start in Freeport or not because thats how they did in EQlive, but then Moorgard released the lore that stated that the Ashen Order willingly moved out of Freeport so they didn't have to put up with the Overlord's rule, and that a new order of brawlers formed instead.</DIV>

[Cwi]

Hmm, I was pretty sure they -had- said Monks and Bruisers would be available in both cities. However, I could be wrong. I could just be remembering that everyone had the impression they would be available. I remember there was a site that listed everything Moorgard ever posted. I can't remember what that site was though, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Mala-Shea]

<DIV>Well, I for one am all for the sub-class split. SOE made this problem themselves. I rolled a monk because they had the ability to do some tanking and the means to dish out gobs of dmg. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know whats coming, "Oh but Slappy, if you wanted DPS why didn't you make a scout?" To that I say....[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. The problem is, most of us never picked a monk to be a main tank, but just wanted to do good dps with monk/bruiser fighting style. Some of us didn't want to sneak up on a mob and stab it in the back, or twiddle our fingers and say "A LA PEANUT BUTTER SANDWICHES" and nuke something, but instead charge head on and meet the mob swinging and kicking like mad and overwhelming it with sheer physical force. Now they realize that they overdid it with the DPS on monks/bruisers, so they absolutely [Removed for Content] our DPS, and just relegate our class to standing in front of a mob and making faces at it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And we will NEVER do it as good as a guardian or any plate wearer for that matter. Nor should we. We wear loin clothes and such. Does it look like we should be absorbing dmg from Darathar? The idea of our class as tanks is [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] in the first place.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I, for one, would welcome the choice to choose between a more diversified sub-class option. I think it would make all of us happy and settle this debate once and for all. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Diversification FTW!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Slappmasterjoe</DIV> <DIV>50 Monk</DIV> <DIV>Grobb </DIV>

[Owa]

<P>Forget it kids - we're gonna be tanks and that's that!</P> <P>Moorguard said:</P> <P><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>*sigh*</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>That information is based on some very old ideas that haven't been in the cards for a long time now.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Early in the development of the expansion, one of the feature ideas being discussed was adding new variants of Monks and Bruisers to fit into the lore of the Ashen Order and their self-imposed exile in the Desert of Ro. Without going too much into the storyline, it was a way to add two sort-of-new classes without throwing off the balance of the game.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Why did we kill the idea? Because the classes weren't really new, just versions of something we already had. It would be a substantial amount of work to implement them without a lot of actual value to the players. We wanted to focus on better balancing the classes we had without being forced to add any new ones. Plus, offering that kind of path to only two subclasses without anything similar to all the others would no doubt have been seen as very unfair.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>In short, Disciples and Scrappers (I hated that name anyway) never even got off the drawing board, and are definitely not a feature of Desert of Flames. Ubi probably got their hands on an early feature list and never took that item off. Sorry for the confusion.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>===========================<BR>Steve Danuser, a.k.a. Moorgard<BR>Game Designer, EverQuest </FONT></P> <DIV>Seems like they had a golden opportunity to make everyone happy at once - who would have thought SoE would pass on that (irony)? Oh well...best get on with that Bruiser then <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You know, one day, there'll be a game where fighters can actually fight. Hope to see some of you there....</DIV>

[KeenaMoonphy]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> annaspider wrote:<BR> <P>Forget it kids - we're gonna be tanks and that's that!</P> <P>Moorguard said:</P> <P><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>*sigh*</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>That information is based on some very old ideas that haven't been in the cards for a long time now.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Early in the development of the expansion, one of the feature ideas being discussed was adding new variants of Monks and Bruisers to fit into the lore of the Ashen Order and their self-imposed exile in the Desert of Ro. Without going too much into the storyline, it was a way to add two sort-of-new classes without throwing off the balance of the game.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Why did we kill the idea? Because the classes weren't really new, just versions of something we already had. It would be a substantial amount of work to implement them without a lot of actual value to the players. We wanted to focus on better balancing the classes we had without being forced to add any new ones. Plus, offering that kind of path to only two subclasses without anything similar to all the others would no doubt have been seen as very unfair.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>In short, Disciples and Scrappers (I hated that name anyway) never even got off the drawing board, and are definitely not a feature of Desert of Flames. Ubi probably got their hands on an early feature list and never took that item off. Sorry for the confusion.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>===========================<BR>Steve Danuser, a.k.a. Moorgard<BR>Game Designer, EverQuest </FONT></P> <DIV>Seems like they had a golden opportunity to make everyone happy at once - who would have thought SoE would pass on that (irony)? Oh well...best get on with that Bruiser then <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You know, one day, there'll be a game where fighters can actually fight. Hope to see some of you there....</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well, that's that then.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I must say, Im relieved.</DIV>

[Lareal]

Hell yes Slappmasterjoe!!!! Although I feel we can and should be able to tank Group x1 or group x2 mobs. But we should NOT be able to absorb dmg like a Plate class. It just would not be fair for us to tank as well as a guard in all situations. If we could,and retained our DPS, no one would play a Guard. I've said this before and I'll annoy ya'll with my viewpoint again:     SOE can make SITUATIONAL tanking a reality!!! Situation 1) Mob has very high melee dmg, fast attacks      - Use a Guardian Situation 2) Mob has low dmg attacks, but every successful hit has a 10-20% chance to proc an irresistable high dmg AE to the entire Raid at Heal range + 10. Not a timed AE, an AE that only goes off on successful hits. Much smarter to use a tank who gets hits less often in this case isn't it? A guardian getting hit more often would wipe the raid, a high avoidance tank(monk or Bruiser) would allow the healers to keep up with the group heals.     This would take some tweaking and a little imagination on SOE's part, but it's better than nerfing classes any day. That should satisfy the "I wanna be a raid tank" crowd, and wouldn't require nerfing our dps for the "I wanna DPS" crowd.     There were zones in EQ1 where different class pulled better, sometimes monks, sometimes druid/ranger, sometimes bards, etc. No reason we can't do that with Tanking.         They could also use Training options to allow folks to make a choice between better tanking/better DPS/Better utitility(Stifling).      I'm not happy with what I've seen on changes to our stifling ability on test. That is something that we do better than other classes, to include chanters. Chanters draw far too much aggro stifling(with all their buffs added in), and tend to drop pretty fast when they draw the mobs attention. Also just from personal experiences I don't think their Stifle is as effective as ours, mainly due to resists. By staying behind the mob I can 90% of the time land my stifle. Lareal <div></div>

[Owa]

<DIV> <P><FONT size=2>Very disappointed today. An opportunity for SoE to do something smart was squandered...</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=2>Moorguard said:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000 size=2>sigh...</FONT><FONT color=#ff0000 size=2>It would be a substantial amount of work to implement them without a lot of actual value to the players</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>I keep thinking about these words in particular and each time they seem more and more irritating.<EM> A lot of work. No actual value to players</EM>. What does that tell you about how they view us?  Clearly they take no notice of the very strong feelings regarding the push towards Tanks-R-Us. There's a sizeable amount of subscribers for whom a choice between DPS and Tanking is pretty f***ing valuable, actually. Count the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] posts. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>As to the fact that addressing this is kinda sorta a bit too much trouble to bother with, well that's good to know.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>You know what?  I give up. I'm tired of this bullsh*t. I finally realised that these imbeciles don't have a clue what they're doing or where they're going and I'm sick of them redesigning this game over and over and <EM>over</EM> again. This is the third time I've changed class trying to find a DPS fighter, and the nth time I've had to say goodbye to friends and guilds as they become disenchanted and stop playing. Anyway, I've had enough now. You win. All Fighters  Are Tanks  All Fighters  Are Tanks  All Fighters  Are Tanks  Four Legs Good Two Legs Bad etc etc...  F*cking gob[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]es. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>And while I'm at it I may as well say that I'm sick of the way the graphics are so insanely demanding that only Bill Gates can turn up the settings, whilst games like Splinter Cell or Half Life look far. far better and run as smooth as you like.  I'm sick of the fact that one of the fundamental aspects of RPGs - creating and customising your character  - is nigh impossible, and everyone plods about looking the same with the same equipment. I'm sick of the fact that you can't give your gear to your friends or your guildies because it's all attuned and helping people out and creating a communal feeling comes a poor second to the needs of the 'economy'. I'm sick of the fact that you can't heal, buff or rez anyone unless you're grouped with them, and literally have to watch them die before you can help them. I'm sick of the selfish elitist uber people who increasingly dominate the population as the nice people leave for pastures less f*cked. And don't mention that MMORPGs always change - we know that - but I think we're way past the evolving stage now, don't you? and well into the 'what the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] happened?' stage.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>And the most sickening aspect of this whole ill-conceived mess? The fact that they released it a year before it was ready - merely to compete with the cartoontastic WoW.  Well you did compete, gentlemen, and you didn't do so great. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2> You can have my stuff the very instant something other than WoW is released. Except it's all attuned.</FONT></P></DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> annaspider wrote:<BR> <P>Forget it kids - we're gonna be tanks and that's that!</P> <P>Moorguard said:</P> <P><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>*sigh*</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>That information is based on some very old ideas that haven't been in the cards for a long time now.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Early in the development of the expansion, one of the feature ideas being discussed was adding new variants of Monks and Bruisers to fit into the lore of the Ashen Order and their self-imposed exile in the Desert of Ro. Without going too much into the storyline, it was a way to add two sort-of-new classes without throwing off the balance of the game.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Why did we kill the idea? Because the classes weren't really new, just versions of something we already had. It would be a substantial amount of work to implement them without a lot of actual value to the players. We wanted to focus on better balancing the classes we had without being forced to add any new ones. Plus, offering that kind of path to only two subclasses without anything similar to all the others would no doubt have been seen as very unfair.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>In short, Disciples and Scrappers (I hated that name anyway) never even got off the drawing board, and are definitely not a feature of Desert of Flames. Ubi probably got their hands on an early feature list and never took that item off. Sorry for the confusion.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>===========================<BR>Steve Danuser, a.k.a. Moorgard<BR>Game Designer, EverQuest </FONT></P> <DIV>Seems like they had a golden opportunity to make everyone happy at once - who would have thought SoE would pass on that (irony)? Oh well...best get on with that Bruiser then <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You know, one day, there'll be a game where fighters can actually fight. Hope to see some of you there....</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Slap a PWNED on that, because thats what just happened to Ubi-Soft.</DIV>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> annaspider wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P><FONT size=2>Very disappointed today. An opportunity for SoE to do something smart was squandered...</FONT><FONT size=2>Moorguard said:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000 size=2>sigh...</FONT><FONT color=#ff0000 size=2>It would be a substantial amount of work to implement them without a lot of actual value to the players</FONT></P> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well, I suppose I understand your rant, but he also said that the classes weren't really different.  So I can see his point about little value to the players.  It'd be like putting a class with Paladin skills in FP and calling it Fallen Knight or something.</P> <P>Same class, new name.<BR></P>

[Owa]

<P> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> annaspider wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P><FONT size=2>Very disappointed today. An opportunity for SoE to do something smart was squandered...</FONT><FONT size=2>Moorguard said:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000 size=2>sigh...</FONT><FONT color=#ff0000 size=2>It would be a substantial amount of work to implement them without a lot of actual value to the players</FONT></P> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well, I suppose I understand your rant, but he also said that the classes weren't really different.  So I can see his point about little value to the players.  It'd be like putting a class with Paladin skills in FP and calling it Fallen Knight or something.</P> <P>Same class, new name.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ok - so I might have been a <EM>little</EM> bit overemotional - but I feel sooo much better now I've got it off my chest. Just seems that making one Brawler subclass DPS orientated and the other tanking orientated would have been a really smart move. They should try smart moves - they may come to like them.</P> <P>Anyway, looking on the bright side, having  a level 50 Bruiser AND Monk will be pretty cool. Plus it's nice to be getting XP again...</P> <P> </P> <P>PS.  I've noticed all my posts on the Bruiser boards are 5 star winners! I never get that form you [Removed for Content]  cos you're threatened by my rugged sensuality.<BR><BR></P> <p>Message Edited by annaspider on <span class=date_text>08-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:41 PM</span>

[MadLordOfMilk]

<span><blockquote><hr>annaspider wrote:<div></div><p>Just seems that making one Brawler subclass DPS orientated and the other tanking orientated would have been a really smart move.</p><hr></blockquote>Y'know, techncially, Bruiser would be the "more towards DPS" and Monk would be the "more towards tanking" - I haven't checked up on the Bruiser changes, but it's quite possible that SOE is just trying to make these two move a little more to the extremes <span>:smileyhappy:</span> I'm gonna look up what I can on the bruisers right now, actually.</span><div></div>

[Doug]

Bruisers took a dps nerf as well.

[Turb]

Yep, looking at the numbers, it's around 50% down on CA damage, more in some cases <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Though the power consumption is down too, so damage/power ratio is similar, just way lower dps...Same for you guys?

[Lebr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> annaspider wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P><FONT size=2>Very disappointed today. An opportunity for SoE to do something smart was squandered...</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=2>Moorguard said:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000 size=2>sigh...</FONT><FONT color=#ff0000 size=2>It would be a substantial amount of work to implement them without a lot of actual value to the players</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>I keep thinking about these words in particular and each time they seem more and more irritating.<EM> A lot of work. No actual value to players</EM>. What does that tell you about how they view us?  Clearly they take no notice of the very strong feelings regarding the push towards Tanks-R-Us. There's a sizeable amount of subscribers for whom a choice between DPS and Tanking is pretty f***ing valuable, actually. Count the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] posts. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>As to the fact that addressing this is kinda sorta a bit too much trouble to bother with, well that's good to know.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>You know what?  I give up. I'm tired of this bullsh*t. I finally realised that these imbeciles don't have a clue what they're doing or where they're going and I'm sick of them redesigning this game over and over and <EM>over</EM> again. This is the third time I've changed class trying to find a DPS fighter, and the nth time I've had to say goodbye to friends and guilds as they become disenchanted and stop playing. Anyway, I've had enough now. You win. All Fighters  Are Tanks  All Fighters  Are Tanks  All Fighters  Are Tanks  Four Legs Good Two Legs Bad etc etc...  F*cking gob[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]es. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>And while I'm at it I may as well say that I'm sick of the way the graphics are so insanely demanding that only Bill Gates can turn up the settings, whilst games like Splinter Cell or Half Life look far. far better and run as smooth as you like.  I'm sick of the fact that one of the fundamental aspects of RPGs - creating and customising your character  - is nigh impossible, and everyone plods about looking the same with the same equipment. I'm sick of the fact that you can't give your gear to your friends or your guildies because it's all attuned and helping people out and creating a communal feeling comes a poor second to the needs of the 'economy'. I'm sick of the fact that you can't heal, buff or rez anyone unless you're grouped with them, and literally have to watch them die before you can help them. I'm sick of the selfish elitist uber people who increasingly dominate the population as the nice people leave for pastures less f*cked. And don't mention that MMORPGs always change - we know that - but I think we're way past the evolving stage now, don't you? and well into the 'what the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] happened?' stage.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>And the most sickening aspect of this whole ill-conceived mess? The fact that they released it a year before it was ready - merely to compete with the cartoontastic WoW.  Well you did compete, gentlemen, and you didn't do so great. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2> You can have my stuff the very instant something other than WoW is released. Except it's all attuned.</FONT></P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I would say i share most of your opinions about SoE (The Get More For Less Company)</P> <P>All i wanted was to play a monk (hand to hand combat) You know honed body yada yada. What we got instead is druid armor graphics for the most part and most the fighting moves stay the same. /yawn</P> <P>Is this really the best they can do? I see better armor graphics for monks in Eq1 thats just sad. Hell the fighting graphics were even better.  You would twirl those fighting batons and so on in Eq1 flying kicked looked  like a flying kick. I just cant believe this is the best you can do. Oh well SoE  par for the course. You guys at SoE make me miss Verant.</P>