Anyone else aggrovated...

[Krozl]

<DIV>at the fact that when facing an Epic Mob 3 of our attacks (at 38 anyway) have no effect because they have a stun incorporated into them? I could not even "cast" them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am sure i am preaching to the chior as many are well past 38 and have already dealt with this irritation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, I noticed that some Epic Mobs are either resistant to or immune to some damage types, ie. resistant or immune to piercingslashing etc. PLEASE tell me none are resistantimmune to crushing. That would effectivly nullify a Monk!</DIV>

[Ai064]

<P>I'll throw my first official post on the forums as a polite answer before the wolves get at you.  That question might elicit some negative responses on the boards.   :smileyhappy:</P> <P>The idea of epic mobs being immune to our stun attacks has been discussed.  Most of us keep Rapid Swings in an adept3 handy for epic mobs, etc. As to the dmg type immunities, monks can use piercing, slashing, or crushing based weapons.  Again, most monks keep one set of crushing and an extra set of either slashing or piercing so they are covered.</P> <P> </P> <P>Hope that helps!</P> <P> </P> <P>Aang</P> <P>50 monk, <A O D></P> <P>Innothule</P>

[Bildorm]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ai064 wrote: <P>The idea of epic mobs being immune to our stun attacks has been discussed.  Most of us keep Rapid Swings in an adept3 handy for epic mobs, etc. As to the dmg type immunities, monks can use piercing, slashing, or crushing based weapons.  Again, most monks keep one set of crushing and an extra set of either slashing or piercing so they are covered.</P> <P><A target=_blank><BR></A></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Not to get off topic here... I am level 38 now, and I have have started to see other skills that I can not use on epic mobs. So my question is what other skills do you keep up to adept 3 (IE: like Rapid Swings) for those epic fights?</DIV>

[Krozl]

<P>Perhaps I wasn't clear.</P> <P>Because there is a stun incorporated into the skill it can not be used against epic mobs.( Can Not Be Cast ) that is just stupid. It is not that hard to allow the damage of the attack to happen and have the Mob ignore the stunning effect.</P> <P>Secondly, Many patches ago they took away our ability to increase our piercing and slashing skills. We only use crushing now. Granted I may be confussed on how they changed the skill but if I use a piercing weapon, i still get the You crush so and so for X damage messages, not You pierce... But then it's been a while since i have bottered with anythng other than my fighting batons so maybe I am mistaken.</P> <P>My main concern was the fact that when facing Epic level Mobs I am not allowed to utilize my full damage potential because they have linked the stun to the damage. (Druids in EQLive had the same problem with their Epic Weapons back in the day because the DoT was linked to the Snare effect and if a Mob was immune to changes in speed then the DoT would fail as well automatically, they were able to seperate the effects so that they were independant) I don't see why they can't do that for our skills as well.</P> <P>Just don't like being hog tied for no real good reason. Not asking to be able ot stun Epic mobs, just asking to be able to actually fight them with something other than auto-attack.</P>

[MadBarman]

I also still keep rapid swings ready for epic mobs. Winter's talon also deosnt work on epics but the upgrade at 44 does. I'm not sure what other skill you mean that doesnt work on epics. With the different types of damage, if i use a cestii or csetus (slashing and piercing) it does do that kind of damage but works off your crushing skill and you will not be able to increase the others. <div></div>

[ArivenGemini]

<span><blockquote><hr>Krozlan wrote:<div></div> <p>Perhaps I wasn't clear.</p> <p>Because there is a stun incorporated into the skill it can not be used against epic mobs.( Can Not Be Cast ) that is just stupid. It is not that hard to allow the damage of the attack to happen and have the Mob ignore the stunning effect.</p> <p>Secondly, Many patches ago they took away our ability to increase our piercing and slashing skills. We only use crushing now. Granted I may be confussed on how they changed the skill but if I use a piercing weapon, i still get the You crush so and so for X damage messages, not You pierce... But then it's been a while since i have bottered with anythng other than my fighting batons so maybe I am mistaken.</p> <p>My main concern was the fact that when facing Epic level Mobs I am not allowed to utilize my full damage potential because they have linked the stun to the damage. (Druids in EQLive had the same problem with their Epic Weapons back in the day because the DoT was linked to the Snare effect and if a Mob was immune to changes in speed then the DoT would fail as well automatically, they were able to seperate the effects so that they were independant) I don't see why they can't do that for our skills as well.</p> <p>Just don't like being hog tied for no real good reason. Not asking to be able ot stun Epic mobs, just asking to be able to actually fight them with something other than auto-attack.</p><hr></blockquote>I do believe they have stated in the big mysterious combat changes coming down the pipe that they are going to seperate the effect and damage so that you can do damage but the immune portion just wont hit... just like what you are asking for. </span><div></div>

[Jenj]

<DIV>To my knowledge, the only art(s) that do not work on epic mobs are from the Rapid Swings Line (excluding Rapid Swings). Winter's Talon and Charging Tiger still do damage while their stun effects are ignored. Although to your point, some epic mobs are immune to crush, heat, and lightning based attacks. Especially the mobs immune to crush, the monk is fairly gimped b/c 3 of our damage arts are useless (Winter's Talon, Flying Dragon, and Charging Tiger).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Jenjer</DIV>

[stfields]

<DIV> <HR> Especially the mobs immune to crush, the monk is fairly gimped b/c 3 of our damage arts are useless (Winter's Talon, Flying Dragon, and Charging Tiger). <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Waking Dragon is crush as well, to the best of my knowledge.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For Krozlan, yes we do slash and pierce damage.  I'd guess its a coding issue.  If you are saying "You crush" when you have a slasher on, I'd bet that its because it checks against our only melee skill, which was made "crush" after that patch a few months back.  But, in your damage log, it does say "for 100 points of piercing damage" or "slashing damage."  So, you are doing slash/pierce damage when you equip the appropriate weapon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, I still think that they should allow the damage from our CA to land and just make the mob 100% stun immune.  Like in the case of Lunging Mongoose, make the first 5? hits land and then make the last hit miss (since that is the stun most likely).  Or even better, just let all hits land and just don't let the stun land.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do feel kind of robbed when Lunging Mongoose can do significantly more damage than Rapid Swings but doesn't land at all.  </DIV>

[bonesbro]

Aye, as others have mentioned here, we can get both piercing and slashing weapons.  You don't need to skill up your pierce and slash skills - they'll use your Crushing skills to determine if they hit, but the mob will take slashing/piercing damage. For slashing damage, a weaponsmith can make you a leather cestii.  For piercing damage, a weaponsmith can make a spiked leather cestus.  Because they use leather instead of metal, the rare weapons are <i>much</i> cheaper than they are for most other classes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Ond]

"Also, I noticed that some Epic Mobs are either resistant to or immune to some damage types, ie. resistant or immune to piercingslashing etc. PLEASE tell me none are resistantimmune to crushing." King Drayek (instanced mob in PF) is crush immune. <div></div>

[Krozl]

Guess i'll have to have my Weaponsmith make me a full set of imbued rods, cesti and cestus. Just in case <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Dandeli]

<DIV>1)My spellings gonna make me look like Im on crack but I'm sounding it out:<BR>Oxillyus in meeting of the minds (Big [Removed for Content] eyeball in feerott instance) is crush immune. <BR><BR>2) I wasnt aware that any of our skills were crush based, like the um uh .... assassins are pierce (They got skrewed kinda)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) I cant remember a direct line from dev, and dont feel like digging, but I believe in combat update... Lunging mongoose will work, just the stun wont. (As with other non epic skills from other classes, will land the damage if there is, just the stuns/stifles wont)<BR>All other attacks used at 50 land, except lunging mongoose atm.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>+++</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4) Dont waste money on rods, to hit many of the mobs you'll need legendary ($$$ebons), and your more then likely to get a crushing replacement very soon into raiding. If you read the boards, many of the monks have multiple sets of fabled crushing weapons. (I have 2x 2hers, and 3dw's myself, all crushing). Then again if your not raiding, you wont need any weapons that your not already carrying =p</DIV><p>Message Edited by Dandelize on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:42 AM</span>

[Shach]

<P>i carry around 3 slash weapons and 3 crush just incase i forget to take them outta the bank or we're just hittin alot of targets on raid nights</P> <P>slash: plasmatic cestiis and some augmented cestiis (and wyrmsteel for those lil meanie dragon types)<BR>crush: prismatic baton, sixta's and ironfist knuckles (incase one of the other two break)</P><p>Message Edited by Shachor on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:42 AM</span>

[Krozl]

We are just starting ot seriously put our raid hats on, I am 1 of 2 monks so I'll get plenty of upgrades from drops hopefully

[Jenj]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> stfields wrote: <DIV>Waking Dragon is crush as well, to the best of my knowledge.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Nah, I believe this one is weapon based.<BR>

[Krozl]

BTW- I don't waste a copper on weapons or armor. They are freely given within my guild as the need arises and the supplies are available.

[Gaige]

Pretty sure after spell revamp you can use things such as mongoose on epic target, sans stun.

[stfields]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jenjer wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> stfields wrote: <DIV>Waking Dragon is crush as well, to the best of my knowledge.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Nah, I believe this one is weapon based.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I'm pretty sure either Spitting Cobra or Waking Dragon cannot land on crush immune mobs (like Drayek).  I'll have to check next time I fight him.</P> <P> </P> <P></P> <HR> 2) I wasnt aware that any of our skills were crush based, like the um uh .... assassins are pierce (They got skrewed kinda) <HR> <P>Icy Talon, Flying Dragon, Charging Tiger and either Spitting Cobra or Waking Dragon are all crushed based.  Diving Phoenix is heat and Biting Mantis is magic.  The others are based on your weapon. </P>

[Jenj]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>stfields wrote:<blockquote><hr>Jenjer wrote:<blockquote><hr>stfields wrote:<div>Waking Dragon is crush as well, to the best of my knowledge.<hr></div></blockquote>Nah, I believe this one is weapon based.<hr></blockquote><p>I'm pretty sure either Spitting Cobra or Waking Dragon cannot land on crush immune mobs (like Drayek).  I'll have to check next time I fight him.</p><hr>2) I wasnt aware that any of our skills were crush based, like the um uh .... assassins are pierce (They got skrewed kinda)<hr><p>Icy Talon, Flying Dragon, Charging Tiger and either Spitting Cobra or Waking Dragon are all crushed based.  Diving Phoenix is heat and Biting Mantis is magic.  The others are based on your weapon. </p><hr></blockquote>Striking (not spitting) Cobra and Waking Dragong are melee (e.g. weapon) based and definately work on crush immune mobs along with Diving Phoenix, Biting Mantis, Silent Fist, Rapid Swings, and Freezing Palm.</span> <ul> <li><!-- [if !supportLists] --><span><span><span></span></span></span><b><span>Crush Arts:</span></b><span> Icy Talon, Charging Tiger, Flying Dragon (although DOT is heat based)</span></li> <li><!-- [if !supportLists] --><span><span><span></span></span></span><b><span>Weapon type specific arts<a target="_blank" href="#_ftn1"><span class="MsoFootnoteReference"><span><!-- [if !supportFootnotes] --><span class="MsoFootnoteReference"><b><span></span></b></span></span></span></a>:</span></b><span> Rapid Swings, Silent Fist, Freezing Palm, Striking Cobra, Waking Dragon (DOT is heat based)</span></li> <li><!-- [if !supportLists] --><span><span><span></span></span></span><b><span>Magic Damage: </span></b><span>Biting Mantis</span></li> <li><!-- [if !supportLists] --><span><span><span></span></span></span><b><span>Heat Damage:</span></b><span> Diving Phoenix</span></li> <li><!-- [if !supportLists] --><span><span><span></span></span></span><b><span>Lightning Damage: </span></b><span>Storming Hydra</span></li> </ul> <span>-Jenjer</span><div></div>

[bonesbro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jenjer wrote:<BR> <SPAN><BR>Striking (not spitting) Cobra and Waking Dragong are melee (e.g. weapon) based and definately work on crush immune mobs along with Diving Phoenix, Biting Mantis, Silent Fist, Rapid Swings, and Freezing Palm.<BR><BR></SPAN> <UL> <LI><!-- [if !supportLists] --><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><B><SPAN>Crush Arts:</SPAN></B><SPAN> Icy Talon, Charging Tiger, Flying Dragon (although DOT is heat based)</SPAN></LI> <LI><!-- [if !supportLists] --><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><B><SPAN>Weapon type specific arts<A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/post?board.id=6&message.reply_to_id=19135#_ftn1" target=_blank><SPAN class=MsoFootnoteReference><SPAN><!-- [if !supportFootnotes] --><SPAN class=MsoFootnoteReference><B><SPAN></SPAN></B></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></A>:</SPAN></B><SPAN> Rapid Swings, Silent Fist, Freezing Palm, Striking Cobra, Waking Dragon (DOT is heat based)</SPAN></LI> <LI><!-- [if !supportLists] --><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><B><SPAN>Magic Damage: </SPAN></B><SPAN>Biting Mantis</SPAN></LI> <LI><!-- [if !supportLists] --><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><B><SPAN>Heat Damage:</SPAN></B><SPAN> Diving Phoenix</SPAN></LI> <LI><!-- [if !supportLists] --><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><B><SPAN>Lightning Damage: </SPAN></B><SPAN>Storming Hydra</SPAN></LI></UL><SPAN><BR>-Jenjer<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Great concise list.  Mind if I FAQ it?<BR>

[Jenj]

<SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> bonesbro wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jenjer wrote:<BR> <SPAN><BR>Striking (not spitting) Cobra and Waking Dragong are melee (e.g. weapon) based and definately work on crush immune mobs along with Diving Phoenix, Biting Mantis, Silent Fist, Rapid Swings, and Freezing Palm.<BR><BR></SPAN> <UL> <LI><!-- [if !supportLists] --><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><B><SPAN>Crush Arts:</SPAN></B><SPAN> Icy Talon, Charging Tiger, Flying Dragon (although DOT is heat based)</SPAN></LI> <LI><!-- [if !supportLists] --><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><B><SPAN>Weapon type specific arts<A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/post?board.id=6&message.reply_to_id=19135#_ftn1" target=_blank><SPAN class=MsoFootnoteReference><SPAN><!-- [if !supportFootnotes] --><SPAN class=MsoFootnoteReference><B><SPAN></SPAN></B></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></A>:</SPAN></B><SPAN> Rapid Swings, Silent Fist, Freezing Palm, Striking Cobra, Waking Dragon (DOT is heat based)</SPAN></LI> <LI><!-- [if !supportLists] --><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><B><SPAN>Magic Damage: </SPAN></B><SPAN>Biting Mantis</SPAN></LI> <LI><!-- [if !supportLists] --><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><B><SPAN>Heat Damage:</SPAN></B><SPAN> Diving Phoenix</SPAN></LI> <LI><!-- [if !supportLists] --><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><B><SPAN>Lightning Damage: </SPAN></B><SPAN>Storming Hydra</SPAN></LI></UL><SPAN><BR>-Jenjer<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Great concise list.  Mind if I FAQ it?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Of course not!</SPAN><p>Message Edited by Jenjer on <span class=date_text>07-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:39 PM</span>

[sglant]

You can use mine..  <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN><BR></SPAN> <UL> <LI><!-- [if !supportLists] --><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><EM><FONT face=Garamond><FONT size=4><B><SPAN>Crush Arts:</SPAN></B><SPAN> Icy Talon, Charging Tiger, Flying Dragon (although DOT is heat based)</SPAN></FONT></FONT></EM></LI> <LI><!-- [if !supportLists] --><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><B><SPAN><EM><FONT face=Garamond size=4>Weapon type specific arts</FONT></EM><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/post?board.id=6&message.reply_to_id=19135#_ftn1" target=_blank><SPAN class=MsoFootnoteReference><SPAN><!-- [if !supportFootnotes] --><SPAN class=MsoFootnoteReference><B><SPAN></SPAN></B></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></A><EM><FONT face=Garamond size=4>:</FONT></EM></SPAN></B><SPAN><EM><FONT face=Garamond size=4> Rapid Swings, Silent Fist, Freezing Palm, Striking Cobra, Waking Dragon (DOT is heat based)</FONT></EM></SPAN></LI> <LI><!-- [if !supportLists] --><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><EM><FONT face=Garamond><FONT size=4><B><SPAN>Magic Damage: </SPAN></B><SPAN>Biting Mantis</SPAN></FONT></FONT></EM></LI> <LI><!-- [if !supportLists] --><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><EM><FONT face=Garamond><FONT size=4><B><SPAN>Heat Damage:</SPAN></B><SPAN> Diving Phoenix</SPAN></FONT></FONT></EM></LI> <LI><!-- [if !supportLists] --><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><EM><FONT face=Garamond><FONT size=4><B><SPAN>Lightning Damage: </SPAN></B><SPAN>Storming Hydra</SPAN></FONT></FONT></EM></LI></UL><SPAN></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN> </P> <P>heheh<BR></P></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[bonesbro]

Sorry, font's too large <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Jenj]

Sorry, it wasnt clear.... I dont mind at all. :smileyhappy: <p>Message Edited by Jenjer on <span class=date_text>07-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:39 PM</span>

[bonesbro]

Yup - I'll get it into the DPS FAQ when I update it again in a few days <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Sotaudi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Krozlan wrote:<BR> <DIV>at the fact that when facing an Epic Mob 3 of our attacks (at 38 anyway) have no effect because they have a stun incorporated into them? I could not even "cast" them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am sure i am preaching to the chior as many are well past 38 and have already dealt with this irritation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, I noticed that some Epic Mobs are either resistant to or immune to some damage types, ie. resistant or immune to piercingslashing etc. PLEASE tell me none are resistantimmune to crushing. That would effectivly nullify a Monk!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Not to diminish the point, but be aware that this is not just a Monk issue.  Most classes, if not all of them, have skills that will not work against epic targets because they have effects to which Epics are immune.  For instance, my Ranger's training upgrade from Quick Strike, Hager's Befuddling Strike, adds a Stifle effect to the skill.  Epics cannot be stifled, so I cannot use HBS against Epics.  My Illusionist, likewise, has skills that cannot affect Epics for similar reasons.  I have not noticed any "Does not Effect Epic Targets" on any of my Fury spells yet (he is only level 26, atm), but I have no reason to expect that there are no Fury spells so affected.  So this is not a Monk specific issue.  Most, if not all, classes have the same issue.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is not to diminish your point.  It should be that an effect is simply resisted if the critter is immune to it, allowing the rest of the effects of the skill to be used.  And from other posts, it does sound as if they are addressing this issue in the combat rebalance.  However, it is a problem faced by all classes right now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do not, however, share the level of concern about damage types.  Every game like this that I have played has within the combat engine the concept of creatures being immune to certain damage types or near immunities to them due to high resists.  Likewise, every game I have played has within it the concept that certain classes cannot use certain damage types, so they end up facing critters that they cannot damage with their favored damage type.  This game is no different.  My Ranger's melee weapons do piercing and slashing damage.  The primary damage from his CAs is piercing and slashing damage, and his debuffs affect piercing and slashing.  So if he faces a critter that is immune to, say, piercing damage, none of his piericing skills or piercing weapons can be used against it.  This is true of all classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But on the other hand, a crushing immune monster would severly [Removed for Content] my Monk, yet, unlike my Ranger, my Monk can equip Crushing, Piercing, or Slashing melee weapons.  So he does have more damage options than my Ranger with regard to melee attacks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This latter issue is frustrating, but it is a normal part of most games, and, at least, the ability to equip weapons from all three melee damage types does mitigate the issue somewhat for Monks.</DIV>