Monk level 40 Training Choices

[Oneira]

I really can't decide on this one.  People seem evenly split between Phin's, the upgrade to Martial Discipline for its increased avoidance and agi, and Lu'Sun's Raging Soul as the best Taunt Monk's can get, and So'Li's upgrade to Striking Cobra. I was leaning toward Phin's because it gives an avoidance and agility boost, but others swear by Lu'Sun's as the #1 taunt. I sure could use some help as most of the posts are a bit dated. Tekira 40 monk Everfrost server <div></div>

[Dasanhgul]

<P>If <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>Lu'Sun's Raging Soul</FONT></STRONG> keeps the same recast timer of 8s, then that will be my choice (even if I'm still a bit away from it). At 10 I went for for <EM>Velan's Taunting Cry</EM> and I just love its recast.</P> <P>Right now I tend to do a lot of tankig for our groups, so that choice was to everyone's gain.... I'll have to see if at 40 i'm still tanking or not.</P> <P> </P>

[Gaige]

This is covered in the FAQ, but I think LuSun's is the best choice.

[Kiori]

<P>I chose Phin's as the uneducated peasents on my server have no faith in Monks tanking( hee only kidding ), on the odd occaison I get the chance to tank,   I have had no problems so far relying on the training taunts I took previously.  Last night being a case in point,  I tanked for a group with 2 wiz and a sas with no problems,   I am in my low 40's and may come to regret this decision at later lvls, but so long as im using my taunts every time they recycle and using a group buff every time it recycles Im doing fine at the moment.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Dasanhgul]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kiori wrote:<BR> <P>I am in my low 40's and may come to regret this decision at later lvls, but so long as im using my taunts every time they recycle and using a group buff every time it recycles Im doing fine at the moment.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>It's been said that we would probably be granted another <EM>/respec</EM>, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Oneira]

Thanks for the replies all, they did help. Now I'd like to share a dissenting opinion with you from my guild's 50 monk.  He made a pretty good argument for choosing Raging Tiger that went like this: A monk's main role is to do damage.  Yes, we can also tank, but that's not our main function for the world out there.  For that reason, taking Su'Lun's taunt at 40 when you get a taunt at 50 (slower timer I know) is a waste of time.  Monks don't need another taunt, he argues, since we get it at 50, monks need more damage. When I asked him if he still uses Raging Tiger at 50, he said Hell Yeah, he can do up to 600 pts of damage with it.  He doesn't understand why ppl are so enthused about Lu'Sun's when monks do in fact get a big taunt at 50 and Raging Tiger is such a great and much needed damage boost. Whether you agree or not, it sure does make one reconsider, no? <div></div>

[Kiori]

<P>Thats a fair comment,  but I like many others see our monks as fighters and would like to be able to tank more with them,  others see there monks as a dps machine,  fair enough,   play the class how you want to,   but with the changes coming monks will become more tank capable( well that is the plan as I know it ),  after all they are a fighter subclass,  whos ultimate job is to act as a meat shield and hold agro.  </P> <P>Monk dps will still be good,  but only relative to other fighters,  if the changes work as expected( and as I hope ),  then we will tank more and groups looking for dps will most likely prefer wiz,  war, ranger or sas.</P> <P>But as I mentioned above,  whats more important is how you see your Monk,  are you a dps machine or a meat shield <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, mentioning dps type monk in this forum upsets some people,  but its your toon,  play it in a fashion which you enjoy best,  after all its a game and we are all here to have fun( and its high likely that a respec will be in order after the changes,  so you can always alter your toon at that time )</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[bonesbro]

I took the taunt.  Adding an extra 300 damage every 30 seconds doesn't impress me.  No one lives or dies if I do another 300 damage.  But on the occasions where I'm called to tank, I know I need to do the absolute best job I can to help dispell the "monks can't tank" rumors.  The taunt value on the level 40 training is almost identical to the level 50 skill, but it can be used every 20 seconds instead of every 30, which is a pretty huge increase. <div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Oneira wrote:<BR>Thanks for the replies all, they did help.<BR><BR>Now I'd like to share a dissenting opinion with you from my guild's 50 monk.  <BR><BR>He made a pretty good argument for choosing Raging Tiger that went like this:<BR><BR>A monk's main role is to do damage.  Yes, we can also tank, but that's not our main function for the world out there.  <BR>For that reason, taking Su'Lun's taunt at 40 when you get a taunt at 50 (slower timer I know) is a waste of time.  Monks don't need another taunt, he argues, since we get it at 50, monks need more damage. <BR><BR>When I asked him if he still uses Raging Tiger at 50, he said Hell Yeah, he can do up to 600 pts of damage with it.  He doesn't understand why ppl are so enthused about Lu'Sun's when monks do in fact get a big taunt at 50 and Raging Tiger is such a great and much needed damage boost.<BR><BR>Whether you agree or not, it sure does make one reconsider, no?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>No, it doesn't make me reconsider, because we are tanks.<p>Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on <span class=date_text>07-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:46 AM</span>

[bonesbro]

Well, I guess one way to look at it is, a tank's job is to hold agro, and doing damage gains agro, so doing an extra 300 damage is the same as using another 300 point taunt.  Of course it doesn't help you hold agro on anything other than your main mob.

[Nefari]

I chose Lu'Sun's when I first hit 40, and still used it over the 50th lvl taunt every time.  That being said, i did a /respec a couple days ago specifically to beat the Pit Champ <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I took So'Li's Spitting Cobra, and it's a very nice upgrade as well.  The addition of 296 Poison damage every 30 seconds was very helpful.  Phin's is ok, but it's not a HUGE agi boost...and (from what I understand, not having had it myself) the other benefits are on par or less than Transcendant Vision.  I also know several Monks who swear by Phin's ::shrug:: Regardless, after the combat revamp I will be /respeccing again and taking Lu'Sun's.  IMO it is by far the best of the bunch. Nefalu 50th Monk Avalorien AB <div></div>

[zabor]

Lu'Sun generates more aggro over time than Agitate Spirit Master 1.

[Oneira]

<span><blockquote><hr>Gage-Mikel wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Oneira wrote:Thanks for the replies all, they did help.Now I'd like to share a dissenting opinion with you from my guild's 50 monk.  He made a pretty good argument for choosing Raging Tiger that went like this:A monk's main role is to do damage.  Yes, we can also tank, but that's not our main function for the world out there.  For that reason, taking Su'Lun's taunt at 40 when you get a taunt at 50 (slower timer I know) is a waste of time.  Monks don't need another taunt, he argues, since we get it at 50, monks need more damage. When I asked him if he still uses Raging Tiger at 50, he said Hell Yeah, he can do up to 600 pts of damage with it.  He doesn't understand why ppl are so enthused about Lu'Sun's when monks do in fact get a big taunt at 50 and Raging Tiger is such a great and much needed damage boost.Whether you agree or not, it sure does make one reconsider, no? <hr> </blockquote>No, it doesn't make me reconsider, because we are tanks.<p>Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on <span class="date_text">07-14-2005</span> <span class="time_text">09:46 AM</span></p> In the end I took Lu'Sun's too, like you.  I'll see how much I tank at 40+ and the nice thing is, if it turns out that I don't do much of it, there's always a respec coming. Thanks for the comments all! </blockquote></span><div></div>

[Criston]

Freezing Palm Master 1 makes Bakindo's = relatively useless.

[Dandeli]

<DIV>I took something spitting fist =p Does way more damage then the ad3 of something fist =p</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone else wanna test there memory against mine, no looking up and cheeating =)(=</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If aggros your problem, we also get another single target taunt in splitpaw that you can just buy.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Dandelize on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:09 AM</span>

[Dfoley3]

Ignore gaige, hes just mad cause his dps is poopy!  In all seiousness, monks are not tanks <b>atm</b>.  We are ment to be, but we arent.  We lack + def buffs, +hp buffs, high ac, and accomidatable avoidance.  Fully raid buffed, sure we can get 100% avoidance, but so can a guardian with 1500 more mitigation, 900 more hp, and a tower shield with a much higher shield block % then our innate round shield. Even with an ancient combine great flail (arguably the best monk tanking weapon in the game), monks are not tanks.  On any given raid, a guardian is the prefered tank and monks are prefered to be dps.  With the changes coming to monks however, we no longer "should" be tanks, but rather will be tanks.  I know Gaige has tanked CL, and i know i tanked my way 1 through 50 in every exp group as well as tanking my share of raid mobs.   It still doesnt change the fact that other classes are far supperior at 1) holding agro, 2) mitigating as well as avoiding, 3)adding usefull self buffs for tanking.  The taunt in my oppinion is the way to go, as with combat changes monks will tank more often.  As is however, dps is our primary role regardless of what ANY monk says.  On raids monks will be on the  top single target dps with assassins and wizards (baring resists) being right there with them.  If you dont push 300-350 dps as a monk, there seriously is something wrong with you.  While the extra 300 dmg / 30 sec isa nice upgrade.  adept 3s dont fall to far behind it.  Where as the lvl 50 taunt at adept 3 will have more hate per cast, the 30 sec recast makes it useless compared to a 20 sec recast taunt with 30 pt less hate generation. IN TOTAL hate per time elapsed. Training taunt 4x520 +3x520x(each minute after 1) = 2080  hate in 1 min, 3640 hate in 2 min Lvl 50 adept3 3x570+2x570x(each minute after 1) = 1710 hate in 1 min, 2850 hate in 2 min In fights lasting 1 min + , the extra hate generation of the training taunt far surpasses the adept 3 taunt at 50.  The only time the level 50 taunt with out doo the training taunt is in fights lasing less then 40 sec, as that is when the training taunt excells past the adept 3. Raijen, 50 monk of Lavastorm <div></div>