A monk tanking CL? Impossible.

[Gaige]

<DIV>So Noah, because he loves me, decided to let me tank CL tonight.  While I know he is no Lord Nagalik or Vision of Vox, he does pose a bit more of a challenge than say Rognog or Drayek.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All in all, good fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A *few* spikes, but nothing too crazy, wasn't really an ideal mt group for me since he just told me to tank at the last minute.  But definately doable w/o any close calls.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No lost aggro at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I used sigmonds (+24 str/sta), rainmaker (+24 agi), Melernil's (212 mitigation), +pwr food, two +12 agi dolls, my ACGF, all 3 imbued rings and I think that's it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My masters are: Flying Dragon, Stone Stance, Striking Cobra, Agitate Spirit, Infuriating Calm.  All my other t5 spells expect Diving Phoenix are adept 3.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My fabled gear at the time of the raid was: bp, pants, weapon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not uber by any means.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just thought I'd share, as it was more to see how I'd fare than anything, with the current combat I certainly wouldn't tank over a guardian as it makes no sense.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But although I did take more healing, it was easy and totally doable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img327.imageshack.us/img327/8158/eq20001955iv.jpg"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img327.imageshack.us/img327/7476/tanking34hh.jpg"></DIV><p>Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on <span class=date_text>07-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:31 PM</span>

[Moski]

<P>Grats Gage,</P> <P>but why in Hell are you using such a wierd MT Setup ?    :smileyhappy:</P>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moskito wrote:<BR> <P>Grats Gage,</P> <P>but why in Hell are you using such a wierd MT Setup ?    :smileyhappy:</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>/shrug.  Just CL.  I'm not really sure.  Like I said, spur of the moment thing.<BR>

[KeenaMoonphy]

<P>Congratulations Gaige.</P> <P> </P> <P>Nice outfit. ><</P>

[-UGG-Andy]

<P>Thats nice,your gear is still way better than mine though,and i suspect most monks.</P> <P>(Just don't know where to start raiding to start getting some gear)</P> <P>Is that the mob that sometimes drops Ice Comet for 11k?:smileysurprised:</P>

[Ond]

Impressive and highly unusual <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Something I wonder about, I see you have roughly 90% avoidance, yet when we (guild) go on raids, it's not rare having the guardian MT at 100%, this with buffs for a templar, warden, defiler, berserker, troubadour and of course the guardian himself. I thought monks would reach that limit a lot easier, or did I miss something? Maybe your MT group setup is different? Why aren't you at 100%? <div></div>

[Grabaan]

Nice work Gage. Slowly but surely we're able to tank more than the expected targets. Nice to see you in on the fun <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Lebr]

I notice that you are slacking on your "outfitter" class whats up with that man ?   Level 10 is the best you could do in all this time?

[Moski]

<span><blockquote><hr>Ondal wrote:Something I wonder about, I see you have roughly 90% avoidance, yet when we (guild) go on raids, it's not rare having the guardian MT at 100%, Why aren't you at 100%? <div></div><hr></blockquote> Becasue we wanted some extra "thrill" thats why i asked why  "the hell they used such a wierd MT Setup"  <span>:smileyhappy:</span></span><div></div>

[Jezekie]

Photoshopped! Boo! hiss! On a more serious note, it'll be interesting to see if we'll (Brawlers) ever be viable raid tanks come the Revamp. <div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ondal wrote:<BR>Impressive and highly unusual <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>Something I wonder about, I see you have roughly 90% avoidance, yet when we (guild) go on raids, it's not rare having the guardian MT at 100%, this with buffs for a templar, warden, defiler, berserker, troubadour and of course the guardian himself. I thought monks would reach that limit a lot easier, or did I miss something? Maybe your MT group setup is different? Why aren't you at 100%?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I can get to 100%, but this wasn't an ideal MT group setup, no conjurer, etc.</P> <P>Its easier for guardians to get 100% avoidance though, because of all their self defensive buffs that add to their avoidance.<BR></P>

[Skyrocket]

<DIV>BAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- I knew this would be on the boards. I should of let you die.  :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Gaige]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Skyrocket wrote:<BR> <DIV>BAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- I knew this would be on the boards. I should of let you die.  :smileyhappy:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>But you <3 me Spaniel <3<BR></DIV>

[blueduckie]

<P>Guardians do not get any self defense buffs Gaige they are all group buffs. Fortified stance is our only self buff really and its defense doesnt stack with our main group defense buff which is much higher. It is only used for mitigation but it loweres our offensive skills greatly. So it is not really any easier for a guardian to hit 100% unless you just dont have a guardian in mt group.</P> <P>Any class can reach 100% avoidance easily trick is warden bard guardian which you normally use in mt groups anyway if you have all 3 there.</P> <P>Is good to see monk tanking raid mobs but dont see why not satisifed with ones you can tank still waiting to see a monk in full fabled attempt drakathor would be a great post to see how it turned out.</P> <p>Message Edited by blueduckie on <span class=date_text>07-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:11 AM</span>

[Gaige]

Noah can get 100% avoidance way easier than I can, sir.

[blueduckie]

<P>How? That is 100% untrue and uninformed statment. Hitting 100% avoidance happens when you hit 290 defense.</P> <P>Guardians have no self defense buffs talking with out masters in skills defense list goes like such.</P> <P>Guardian adds 23 defense to entire group no bonus to self</P> <P>Troubador can add 13 if uses swan song and invig opus only 9 if just swan</P> <P>Warden 10 with duststorm</P> <P>Mystic 2 with eb can be cast outside of group</P> <P>Defiler 4 to single target in group</P> <P>Dirge 8 but does not stack with troub swan</P> <P>So with noah and yourself being non +5 defense races. You will hit it the exact same defense lvls but your avoidance will really be higher. Monk Guardian Warden Troubador in a group for this discussion going max defense. No bonuses that entire group doesnt get every single person in group will have 100 avoidance and if monk defense skill stacks with these others will be way higher but i believe it doesnt stack with guardian call of proetection which guardian stance doesnt stack with either. Anyhoo that is 46 defense to group entire group not a single person can single buff defense. Scroll over your avoidance you can see your exact avoidance number and it will be higher than noahs unless he had like 200 more agi than you "sir" The argument of guardians having more avoidance is just how buffs are set up not the class itself. Guardians are important for the defense set up for any class tho because Guardians raise it the highest but any class can be set up with same buffs.</P> <P>However gaige i challenge you to set up in a group i just presented of warden guardian monk troubador and buff up defense max on all open up noah and your window and will both say 100% also you can even scroll over yours specifically where it breaks it down and it will be around really 150-180% avoidance. I am not just saying this want to actually see it for yourself since you seem to think Guardians some how boost there defense themselves when it is booting everyone.</P> <P>Deretti</P> <p>Message Edited by blueduckie on <span class=date_text>07-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:34 PM</span>

[Nazo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR>Noah can get 100% avoidance way easier than I can, sir. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Nope all our STACKING Defence buffs are group so whatever I get everyone else in the group gets as well...

[Dfoley3]

"optimal" tank group is up to the raid Optimaly, we prefer  Guardian, monk, troub, mystic, warden, templar monk -45 % block buff (its better then any other fighters, even if they are the same percent because we have more avoidance skills to offer so they go off more often) troub - + defense mystic - regular buffs + def warden - dust storm and best single target heals templars - reactives, hp buffs, ac, etc guardian - tank, and + def that being said, there are benifits to having other classes, ie warlocks for PR if mob is a nuker. Anyways gratz to gage :-p and FoH for being the first guild brave enough to "let" a monk tank.  The only time i get to tank raid mobs is when i peel and tuna says he doesnt want to taunt :-p From my experiance in raiding (the downward spiral on lavastorm) besides the new contested mobs, I can tank any instance mob pretty much.  Instanced vox, lord drayek, cl, antonica (pre ele buff), angler (hahah barney could tank that).  Its not out of a monks reach to tank raid mobs guys.  The only catch is you have to want to, ie take the + 5% hp trainings, only wear light armor (no vla).  Max control breathing, using spider stance (can keep it app1), keep toughness, face of the mt, stone stance up and max (stonestance is risky but  if no peeling it makes u tank like a gaurdian on roids) Look me up on eq2players.......Raijen    Lavastorm ....not sure which weapons it will have me using.   I have the ancient combine great flail for tanking (+8 parry, 300-500 of each resist, and a heal proc) and prismatic/vox club for dps. <div></div>

[Tully]

<DIV>suck on my balls gage. haha good to see you doing good, been a while since i logged in</DIV>

[Gaige]

Ha Ha, sup Girth <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[sglant]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tully14 wrote:<BR> <DIV>suck on my balls gage. haha good to see you doing good, been a while since i logged in</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>GIRTH!!!!!!!!!!

[blueduckie]

Could it be old girth and sglanton from torvon?

[Macross_JR]

<P>Like many have already stated Gage, the only self defense buff guardians get gets over written by Call of Protection, which just so happens to be a group buff.</P> <P>Gage, I have read many of your posts, some I think are well thought out, others not so well.  All I ask is that you ask Noah, or any other Guardian on Permafrost what we actually have to self buff ourselve's with, and maybe get to know a few things more about Guardians.  By doing this you will not only get a better perception on how a Guardian works, but also will be able to better inform others to get all Fighters ballanced.</P> <P>Oh, on a side note, I do think it is rediculous that plate wearer's can get to 100% avoidance.  I also wish that buffing defense for Guardians would increase Mitigation rather then avoidance and that buffing deflection(I think that is what you monks use) would increase your avoidance.  The way I see it is plate wearing tanks should never be able to reach 100% avoidance and Brawlers should never be able to reach 100% Mitigation.</P>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Macross_JR wrote:<BR> <P>The way I see it is plate wearing tanks should never be able to reach 100% avoidance and Brawlers should never be able to reach 100% Mitigation.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yup, I agree.<BR></P>

[SmakenDah]

<font color="#ff9900" face="Verdana" size="2">The tower shield adds a load of avoidance, I think that is what Gaige is mistaking for a self buff, but I do agree with what Macross_JR posted. </font><div></div>

[Macross_JR]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SmakenDahed wrote:<BR><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff9900 size=2>The tower shield adds a load of avoidance, I think that is what Gaige is mistaking for a self buff, but I do agree with what Macross_JR posted.<BR><BR></FONT> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Not too sure on the tower shield.  will post numbers tonight when I get home.  For information, I use a Pristine Imbued Cedar Tower Shield.

[blueduckie]

cedar tower adds 6.9 avoidance

[TunaBoo]

If it makes you feel better I can tank CL king naked. <div></div>

[Desulto]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TunaBoo wrote:<BR>If it makes you feel better I can tank CL king naked.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Sweet! That means after the balance monks will be able to as well!  Go us!  Or guardians won't be able to...which makes sense.  I mean, c'mon...a grab and a twist and you're toast.  Gotta at least wear a cup, man.</P> <P>My kitty's breath smells like tuna. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><p>Message Edited by Desultory on <span class=date_text>07-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:46 AM</span>

[Dasanhgul]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TunaBoo wrote:<BR>If it makes you feel better I can tank CL king naked.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>It doesn't... that mental image just ruined my lunch :smileysad:</P> <P> </P>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TunaBoo wrote:<BR>If it makes you feel better I can tank CL king naked.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Congratz.  So can Noah.  I think he did it before you also.  <BR>

[Shizzirri]

<DIV>The funniest part about those pics is the afk next to Noah's name...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll be impressed when you tank Darathar <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[TunaBoo]

yah but noah is a [Removed for Content] elf exploiter <div></div>

[Nazo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Desultory wrote:</P> <P>I mean, c'mon...a grab and a twist and you're toast.  Gotta at least wear a cup, man.</P> <P>Message Edited by Desultory on <SPAN class=date_text>07-21-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>12:46 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>lol lol lol</DIV>

[Perfidiou]

<P>This thread brings me soo much joy.</P> <P>I actually get a tear in my eye when I read it.</P> <P>Make more monks raid MT's :smileyvery-happy:</P>

[Ceist X'Ta]

Personaly I hate tanking. <span>:smileytongue </span><div></div>

[Perfidiou]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ceist X'Tant wrote:<BR>Personaly I hate tanking. <SPAN>:smileytongue<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>then why did you pick a class that's supposed to tank to begin with? :smileytongue:

[Ceist X'Ta]

I didn't say I couldn't do it, just that I would rather not. <span>:smileytongue:</span> <div></div>

[Perfidiou]

<DIV>still my question for you remains the same... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why pick a tank class if you don't like it's basic duty?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileywink:</DIV>

[Ceist X'Ta]

<div></div><p>I never saw the monk as a Primary Tank. I know they can tank well, but that to me is only one part of what a monk "can" do. I've rarely been a group where my role was to Tank, or where I was asked to join a group to be the tank. </p><p>Lately on raids my role to help keep stifles/stuns/interrupts going, add avoidance to the MT, and add DSP. I commonly out DPS most the people in my Guild (with the other monks in the guild right behind me), so I’m used for DPS rather than Tanking. The only tanking that I normally am asked to do is take agro off Healer/Casters or grab adds if needed. Which pretty much just means I get agro and then let it swing at me until the MA can pick up the loose mob. I guess it has a lot to do with the way our guild uses its monks.Again, I'm not saying that monks can't or shouldn't tank, just that I would rather not. I guess I'm just stubborn and am used to a different play style.But will all that said, if the group needs a tank, I'll Tank. <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />AS for why I picked a monk.. because I like being versatile. I can Tank if needed, as well excelling as a DPS class. Add in the simple things like FD and such, it’s just all around fun class. That and after playing a monk in EQ1 for years, it just felt right. <span></span></p><div></div>

[Lebr]

<P>The simple fact that you (Tunaboo) think youve  done somthing special tanking without gear, makes me laugh. Come back tell us after the revamp how special you are. Even better post on your class board unless you come here because deep down you wish you were a monk? </P> <P> </P> <P>Im sure you think you have done somthing great, in your mind. </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[bonesbro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lebru1 wrote:<BR> <P>The simple fact that you (Tunaboo) think youve  done somthing special tanking without gear, makes me laugh. Come back tell us after the revamp how special you are. Even better post on your class board unless you come here because deep down you wish you were a monk?</P> <P>Im sure you think you have done somthing great, in your mind.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Now, no need to be rude - it's best to just ignore that kind of comment.  Was it a borderline troll?  Sure.  But this is a game with a ton of different classes, and input from other classes is often very useful in helping us play more effectively, and he's of course welcome to post here constructively.

[Kutark]

<P>Hehe, i didn't know FoH xferred to EQ2, but i bet that 24 player cap per raid is drivin you guys nuts, ya zergin bastids <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</P>

[Cuz]

<P>Ah yeah well my dad can beat up your dad!</P> <P>Don't know who that's meant to be targeted at... I just wanted to be the first to say it.</P>

[Perfidiou]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ceist X'Tant wrote:<BR> <P>I never saw the monk as a Primary Tank. I know they can tank well, but that to me is only one part of what a monk "can" do. I've rarely been a group where my role was to Tank, or where I was asked to join a group to be the tank. </P> <P> </P> <P>Lately on raids my role to help keep stifles/stuns/interrupts going, add avoidance to the MT, and add DSP. I commonly out DPS most the people in my Guild (with the other monks in the guild right behind me), so I’m used for DPS rather than Tanking. The only tanking that I normally am asked to do is take agro off Healer/Casters or grab adds if needed. Which pretty much just means I get agro and then let it swing at me until the MA can pick up the loose mob. I guess it has a lot to do with the way our guild uses its monks.<BR><BR>Again, I'm not saying that monks can't or shouldn't tank, just that I would rather not. I guess I'm just stubborn and am used to a different play style.<BR><BR>But will all that said, if the group needs a tank, I'll Tank. <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>AS for why I picked a monk.. because I like being versatile. I can Tank if needed, as well excelling as a DPS class. Add in the simple things like FD and such, it’s just all around fun class. That and after playing a monk in EQ1 for years, it just felt right. <SPAN></SPAN></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Face it, monks were never intended to be, never was and are never gonna be a dps class.</DIV> <DIV>Saying that we are a dps class is like saying that swashy's are tanks imo.</DIV> <DIV>half the game does better dps thatn we do. Even now before the combat changes.</DIV> <DIV>we do the most dps of the tanks, yes, but a dps class? c'mon, you know better than that.</DIV>

[Ceist X'Ta]

I'm tell you man.. two of the 4 monks in my guild out Damage every other class we have, and the other 2 are in the top 10 on every raid. All the Warlocks, Wizards, Assassins, Rangers.. everyone Me and one other monk come out either the highest DPS and Damage delt or in the top 5 on just about every raid we do. No matter how everyone feels about "what a monk should be doing", the numbers are showing us "what a monk can be doing". As far as what I know, How to play my character, wether I'm tank or doing damage. Oh and what you said about a Swashy tank.. We have buffed out scouts before and used them for pench tanks. THey do pretty good. <div></div>

[Lebr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> bonesbro wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lebru1 wrote:<BR> <P>The simple fact that you (Tunaboo) think youve  done somthing special tanking without gear, makes me laugh. Come back tell us after the revamp how special you are. Even better post on your class board unless you come here because deep down you wish you were a monk?</P> <P>Im sure you think you have done somthing great, in your mind.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Now, no need to be rude - it's best to just ignore that kind of comment.  Was it a borderline troll?  Sure.  But this is a game with a ton of different classes, and input from other classes is often very useful in helping us play more effectively, and he's of course welcome to post here constructively.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Well yeh sure if he has somthing inteligent or just good info,  we have enough junk posts without his lame input. Then again i might be asking to much. /shrug</DIV>

[Linkdead_Phoen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Perfidious1 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>Face it, monks were never intended to be, never was and are never gonna be a dps class.</DIV> <DIV>Saying that we are a dps class is like saying that swashy's are tanks imo.</DIV> <DIV>half the game does better dps thatn we do. Even now before the combat changes.</DIV> <DIV>we do the most dps of the tanks, yes, but a dps class? c'mon, you know better than that.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I dont' think he's calling a monk a DPS class.  He's basically saying that he enjoys the fact that at the moment monks are pretty much right smack between plate tanks and scouts which makes them able to do each role to an efficient lvl.</P> <P>I know I'm gonna get flamed for saying this here :smileytongue: but I've never thought monks should be able to main tank any raid targets above maybe a group x2 or a weaker group x3.  Heck, I don't even think my class should be able to do that.  I usually just leave it up to the guardians to take the big stuff while I tank all the normal mobs.  The ability to tank raid mobs so well is what has always set guardians/warriors apart in the EQ universe.</P> <P>I might even go as far out of the way as to say that the majority of the people here that want monks to pretty much remain the same are from EQ or EQOA.  They've gotten used to being an offtank DPS hybrid and have developed their playstyles accordingly.  People who played SOE's previous two games most likely picked their class because they figured it would work just like it had in the last two games.  I can't see myself happy if paladins turn into casters so I really can't see how a lot of people are happy that monks are losing their versatility and basically becoming guardians with light armor.  </P>

[blueduckie]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lebru1 wrote:<BR> <P>The simple fact that you (Tunaboo) think youve  done somthing special tanking without gear, makes me laugh. Come back tell us after the revamp how special you are. Even better post on your class board unless you come here because deep down you wish you were a monk?</P> <P> </P> <P>Im sure you think you have done somthing great, in your mind.<BR></P> <HR> <P>Hmm any guardian after revamp wishing they were a monk obviously didnt pick a guardian for what pretty mcuh everyone else did. People played guardian to be MT's and combat revamp isnt going to be hurting that. Mitigation will be king from change and guardian mitigation is going to be pretty considerably higher than monks. Doesnt mean monks wont have alot to offer in tanking. You are getting 1 of the current most useless resists on your stance. Mental / Divine must be the easiest resist to raise unless i mis read your stance. Your avoidance buffing up with deflect etc will be nice but our parry / shield block will put our avoidance at a decent base and our hp / mitigation will be icing on the cake for any mob not needing a different class for resist stance. I honestly feel bruisers getting a much better deal with poison resist on stance. Zerkers Guardian and Bruisers getting best resist stances from my personal experience and opinion of mobs ive done. Doesnt mean it will stay that way. Just think your comment about wishing you were a monk is a unrealistic cheap shot. I hope you all are happier with your class tho and can tank the ways you are wanting and have enough dps those enjoying to dps have some fun. I just see these changes seperating the need for fighters even more though with dps decrease. Not expecting to see guilds taking along as many fighters they used to be able to. Everyone will want predators and sorcerors even more so now. Also tons of classes getting stuns now that will work on epics so your stifle etc wont be as unique. Think chanters will possibly be albe to perma stifle mobs now. I know coercers already can.</P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Lebr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> blueduckie wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lebru1 wrote:<BR> <P>The simple fact that you (Tunaboo) think youve  done somthing special tanking without gear, makes me laugh. Come back tell us after the revamp how special you are. Even better post on your class board unless you come here because deep down you wish you were a monk?</P> <P> </P> <P>Im sure you think you have done somthing great, in your mind.<BR></P> <HR> <P>Hmm any guardian after revamp wishing they were a monk obviously didnt pick a guardian for what pretty mcuh everyone else did. People played guardian to be MT's and combat revamp isnt going to be hurting that. Mitigation will be king from change and guardian mitigation is going to be pretty considerably higher than monks. Doesnt mean monks wont have alot to offer in tanking. You are getting 1 of the current most useless resists on your stance. Mental / Divine must be the easiest resist to raise unless i mis read your stance. Your avoidance buffing up with deflect etc will be nice but our parry / shield block will put our avoidance at a decent base and our hp / mitigation will be icing on the cake for any mob not needing a different class for resist stance. I honestly feel bruisers getting a much better deal with poison resist on stance. Zerkers Guardian and Bruisers getting best resist stances from my personal experience and opinion of mobs ive done. Doesnt mean it will stay that way. Just think your comment about wishing you were a monk is a unrealistic cheap shot. I hope you all are happier with your class tho and can tank the ways you are wanting and have enough dps those enjoying to dps have some fun. I just see these changes seperating the need for fighters even more though with dps decrease. Not expecting to see guilds taking along as many fighters they used to be able to. Everyone will want predators and sorcerors even more so now. Also tons of classes getting stuns now that will work on epics so your stifle etc wont be as unique. Think chanters will possibly be albe to perma stifle mobs now. I know coercers already can.</P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>So you missed the part about posting after the revamp?  I never said jack about what any class will or wont be like.  Because noone knows what its gonna be like until its live. So your point was to defend Tunaboo,  make yourself feel better ? And i was being sarcastic about him wanting to be a monk, since he was posting BS  on our board. You following along or do i need to type slower?</P> <P>I really could careless what happens in the combat change it will all be changing again and again. All you can do is play your character with whatever SoE gives you at that time, or quit move onto  somthing new.</P>

[Ceist X'Ta]

<span><blockquote><hr>Linkdead_Phoenix wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Perfidious1 wrote: <div>Face it, monks were never intended to be, never was and are never gonna be a dps class.</div> <div>Saying that we are a dps class is like saying that swashy's are tanks imo.</div> <div>half the game does better dps thatn we do. Even now before the combat changes.</div> <div>we do the most dps of the tanks, yes, but a dps class? c'mon, you know better than that.</div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>I dont' think he's calling a monk a DPS class.  He's basically saying that he enjoys the fact that at the moment monks are pretty much right smack between plate tanks and scouts which makes them able to do each role to an efficient lvl.</p> <p>I know I'm gonna get flamed for saying this here :smileytongue: but I've never thought monks should be able to main tank any raid targets above maybe a group x2 or a weaker group x3.  Heck, I don't even think my class should be able to do that.  I usually just leave it up to the guardians to take the big stuff while I tank all the normal mobs.  The ability to tank raid mobs so well is what has always set guardians/warriors apart in the EQ universe.</p> <p>I might even go as far out of the way as to say that the majority of the people here that want monks to pretty much remain the same are from EQ or EQOA.  They've gotten used to being an offtank DPS hybrid and have developed their playstyles accordingly.  People who played SOE's previous two games most likely picked their class because they figured it would work just like it had in the last two games.  I can't see myself happy if paladins turn into casters so I really can't see how a lot of people are happy that monks are losing their versatility and basically becoming guardians with light armor.  </p><hr></blockquote>  You took the words right out of my mouth. </span><div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Ceist X'Tant wrote: <P><SPAN>He's basically saying that he enjoys the fact that at the moment monks are pretty much right smack between plate tanks and scouts which makes them able to do each role to an efficient lvl.</SPAN></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Who wouldn't?</P> <P>I mean right now we can tank almost anything <EM>and</EM> out DPS almost every class in the game.  That's overpowered, so of course people enjoy it, lol.</P> <P>That'd be like if a Paladin could heal better than a templar and tank as good as they do.<BR></P>

[Linkdead_Phoen]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Ceist X'Tant wrote: <P><SPAN>He's basically saying that he enjoys the fact that at the moment monks are pretty much right smack between plate tanks and scouts which makes them able to do each role to an efficient lvl.</SPAN></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Who wouldn't?</P> <P>I mean right now we can tank almost anything <EM>and</EM> out DPS almost every class in the game.  That's overpowered, so of course people enjoy it, lol.</P> <P>That'd be like if a Paladin could heal better than a templar and tank as good as they do.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Actually I said that :smileywink:.  Notice I said effecient lvl.  Most casually geared monks (at least I've never come across one) can't tank as much as the raider monks can nor can they out DPS almost everything.  I'm sure there are many out there like yourself who have managed to get to the point you are at due to giving yourself the right skills and armor giving you the abilities to do these things.  Really what I was trying to say was he enjoys being able to fullfil both roles to a certain point although not really being a master at either.  You've gotta stop using yourself as a comparison to all monks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gage, you're the monk expert here so I could be wrong.  If I am wrong than I honestly believe that SOE should have nerfed both their DPS and tanking ability to fit in line more with the common perception of a monk being a tank/scout hybrid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my 2cp anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And as for the paladin thing, you'd really be suprised how so many people over at our forums consider healing like a templar balance :smileyvery-happy:.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Linkdead_Phoenix on <span class=date_text>08-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:42 PM</span>

[Shizzirri]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lebru1 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> blueduckie wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lebru1 wrote:<BR> <P>The simple fact that you (Tunaboo) think youve  done somthing special tanking without gear, makes me laugh. Come back tell us after the revamp how special you are. Even better post on your class board unless you come here because deep down you wish you were a monk?</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>In regards to this statement let me just say that being able to tank King Zalak or any other named epic encounter naked is and should not be a personal accomplishment of the tank as any tank could technically do that.  You should be giving credit to the <STRONG><EM>HEALERS </EM></STRONG>dumb enough to heal your inflated ego'ed [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].  After all your nothing without them right.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>Im sure you think you have done somthing great, in your mind.<BR></P> <HR> <P>Hmm any guardian after revamp wishing they were a monk obviously didnt pick a guardian for what pretty mcuh everyone else did. People played guardian to be MT's and combat revamp isnt going to be hurting that. Mitigation will be king from change and guardian mitigation is going to be pretty considerably higher than monks. Doesnt mean monks wont have alot to offer in tanking. You are getting 1 of the current most useless resists on your stance. Mental / Divine must be the easiest resist to raise unless i mis read your stance. Your avoidance buffing up with deflect etc will be nice but our parry / shield block will put our avoidance at a decent base and our hp / mitigation will be icing on the cake for any mob not needing a different class for resist stance. I honestly feel bruisers getting a much better deal with poison resist on stance. Zerkers Guardian and Bruisers getting best resist stances from my personal experience and opinion of mobs ive done. Doesnt mean it will stay that way. Just think your comment about wishing you were a monk is a unrealistic cheap shot. I hope you all are happier with your class tho and can tank the ways you are wanting and have enough dps those enjoying to dps have some fun. I just see these changes seperating the need for fighters even more though with dps decrease. Not expecting to see guilds taking along as many fighters they used to be able to. Everyone will want predators and sorcerors even more so now. Also tons of classes getting stuns now that will work on epics so your stifle etc wont be as unique. Think chanters will possibly be albe to perma stifle mobs now. I know coercers already can.</P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>So you missed the part about posting after the revamp?  I never said jack about what any class will or wont be like.  Because noone knows what its gonna be like until its live. So your point was to defend Tunaboo,  make yourself feel better ? And i was being sarcastic about him wanting to be a monk, since he was posting BS  on our board. You following along or do i need to type slower?</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Trust me there are very few guardians in this game who agree or find tunaboo's statements to be intelligent and personally we thank him for the recent additions to our guild because without his rantings would still be on the lavastorm server.</FONT></P> <P>I really could careless what happens in the combat change it will all be changing again and again. All you can do is play your character with whatever SoE gives you at that time, or quit move onto  somthing new.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>So with that in mind anyone have any suggestions for strategys for tanking the arena champion as a level 30 monk or is that just a giant waste of time?</P> <P>Or even better I should read Tuna's 2000 posts and find a way to tank it naked!!!<BR></P>