a monk's woe

[Casseopei]

<DIV> <DIV>so here i am, monk level 49 and pondering about alot of thing since level 45.. up to level 45 i absolutly loved my monk; there was no doubt in my mind that this was the best class for me, best class to play. now i still love her, but there is some things that i just don't understand, that just doesn't make sense. I don't want to rant, so  maybe some other monks could give me insight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>monk - bruiser difference in tanking ability:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>to my understanding, monk are supposed to be the defensive one of brawler class while bruiser are mostly the offensive part... this was at least true for me til i hit level 45. i duo-group alot with a bruiser of the same level as me, and overall i have better equipment than him.. about 200 more hp, more mitig, more avoidance. Yet lately, i have to let him tank-offtank, because he can sustain the brunt of the fight MUCH more better than me. his explanations is my buffs on him  + his riposte skill ( think its retaliation?) allow him to deflect more than what i could with all my best defenses buff ( including control breathing and heck even toughness and face of the mountain ) all my skills are minimum adept1, and when i tank i use 2hb.  Even trying my best of best ( and i used to tank and solo alot before 45 so im not new to this role) it is still more efficient to let him be main tank in a group and let the lower level plate tank be the offtank on add <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> so much for investing in defense :/</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>level 48  Heal skill:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i'm the first one on my server to have the adept 3 of this spell... and it was a waste of money and waste of gem. I have no problem with the 5 minutes recast on it, but SERIOUSLY! this spell need to be changed...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> * level 30 class skill  Lu'Sun's Healing Touch - adept 2 value : ( stats at lvl 4<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-  heal target for 28% of max health</DIV> <DIV>- dispels 81 level of poison and disease ( wich i think i saw it work only once in my life)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>* level 48 Heal skill - adept 3 ( stats at lvl 4<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- heal target for 29% of max health</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the skill doesnt scale up with level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>on a side note, does anyone know how the heal calculation is done? i noticed that if i have all basic class represented in group ( priest-fighter-scout-mage) my heals will do MUCH MUCH more than when i solo or duo or even just be in a group with 2 class represented.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>now, bruiser lvl 48 heal skill : ignore agony - adept 3 </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- heals self for 40% of max health </DIV> <DIV>- recast 90sec</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the skill scale up with level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>we are already penalized for being able to heal others with a 5 min recast ( wich i can understand) but why does my heal lvl 48 do so little compared to my lvl 30 one?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>this is not about being the best of best of all class, nor to be the best tank and best dps melee etc ... its about following the same progression i had all the way to level 45. i sincerely think that monk should have the retaliation skill while bruiser have the spider stance skill.. what good does the haste portion of the skill do me when in fact everburning fire doesn't stack with it? and if i rmember well ( don't quote me on this) retaliation has 10% chance of riposting attack .. wich is alot when you DW </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>please, if i fail to see some things, fail to understand my class, enlight me, because right now, im pondering alot on the current state of my monk <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Alimouki Fleur-de-Lys</DIV> <DIV>Serenity's Tears</DIV> <DIV>Toxxulia Server</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT: i did saw the other post with all the bugs listed there, but didn't want to repeat here what was already mentionned. those are the 2 main grip i have that wasnt listed.</DIV></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Casseopei on <span class=date_text>06-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:11 PM</span>

[Morrolan V]

<P><FONT face=Garamond size=3>Hey Casseopei,</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Garamond size=3>I would bet that the majority of the difference you are seeing is due to Transcendent Vision.  38% additional avoidance for the MT is a big deal.  If you check your logs, I exect you will see a lot of "An Icegill lurker tries to slash Bluto, but you block" in there.  I was grouped with another monk recently and when he put TV on me, there was a noticeable drop in hit frequency.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Garamond size=3>You could try the bruiser/monk duo with and without TV and see if there's as much of a difference.</FONT></P> <p>Message Edited by Morrolan V on <span class=date_text>06-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:07 PM</span>

[zabor]

Well, bruiser has the same thing, shrug off. Did he cast shrug off on you when you were tanking?

[Casseopei]

<DIV>if we are duo'ing, we buff each other. if he's main tank in group, im buffing him ( he barely get touch this way) and if hes offtank, he get no buff as i will be buffing the main one... yet, he will be more efficient healing-wise offtanking than me doing the job. we really have the same weapons, same armor ( or i have better) so there is something else in play here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i didnt run any *test* nor logs, but we've been grouping alot in permafrost, and i can tell the difference in him barely loosing hp and me being chewed and spit off. the healer never go oop with him tanking-offtanking.. cant say the same with me.</DIV>

[NamaeZero]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Casseopei wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> * level 30 class skill  Lu'Sun's Healing Touch - adept 2 value : ( stats at lvl 4<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-  heal target for 28% of max health</DIV> <DIV>- dispels 81 level of poison and disease ( wich i think i saw it work only once in my life)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>The poison and disease removal only work on *beneficial effects* of that type.. for example, if a Defiler or Shaman ward you, you can remove that ward.. so it's pretty broken right now. It doesn't work on harmful effects like almost all other cure spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for how Mend style skills work.. they heal a straight percentage of your *maximum* Health. You notice that Mend heals for more in groups because other members, especially healers, will buff your max Health. If you have a 1000 health, and Mend (25%) on yourself, you'll see 250 points of healing. If a Templar buffs you up to 1500 maximum health, and you use Mend, the healing result becomes more like 375. That's the difference.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And I agree with you... while we should suffer a slight penalty for being able to heal others with Mend... we need 3 things: (a) decent range with Mend! It's useless to have a heal that works on others if you can't use it on others in a combat situations! (b) a shorter recast time with each upgrade. There's no way you can use Mend-heals more than once in any serious fight. 2 to 4 minutes is more reasonable. (c) Higher percentages on Bruiser AND Monk heals. Since it's a one shot ability, it would help if it gave you a more noticeable boost when it worked. Paladins can heal themselves for many times their HP totals, and have more flexibility in their healing.. so I don't think we'd be stepping on any toes to request this.</DIV>

[bonesbro]

I really want a longer range on Mend.  An emergency targetted heal has less utility if you have to run around the mob and hug the MT.  If he takes a sudden beating he's often dead before I cover the ten feet to mend him. And nothing worse than forgetting to switch off AA and being one-shotted by a riposte while running over in front of the mob <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[HL12]

<P>Find a tree, kneel down.. and meditate on it all.. once the combat changes go in we will all have to re-evaluate our class anyhow.</P> <P> </P> <P>But Seriously, for now.. If your bruiser friend hasnt hit 46 yet then chances may be he is using Overtaking blows which is a lvl 32 spell probably grey at this point and its not adding the same buff bonus as your TV, Phins might add.  if he is 46 then Im not sure the percent on shrug off is but I do know that for phins its like 40% and TV adept 1 is like 38% for the person you cast on that is a hugh difference in [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] taken when your buffs are helping him not take dmg.</P> <P>Also take into account you might be having bad nights.  As well as sometimes depending on your healer you may or may not have a good night.. When Im grouped with a warden or a temp which has proccing heals I hardly take dmg.. The warden due to agi buffs and the temp is because with dw proccing heals you practically heal yourself. </P> <P>Also it could be about your personal play style. Some times when I tank I make sure Im positioning mobs so I deflect/parry/block/riposte as much as I can other days where ever the mob stops I take it and go from there.  This is a HUGH difference since getting hit from behind is only hit or miss. Or even pull style, I know that when I pull I usually follow up with sometype of stun,stilfe,interrupt as to limit the amount of inital dmg I take from a mob and to try and even out my dmg somewhat vs when Im not MT, I drop my spells according to delay so that I can get better timing on my high delay spells. This can change the dynamic of how much dmg is being taken by the main tank, you might want to look at your pull tactics alittle closer.</P> <P>Also take into account Mob types.  You may be pulling mobs which are casters vs mobs which are melee fighters.  Take RV for instance, Some NBs are casters and some NBs come with Lamia,  I use to take way more dmg by pulling mobs that had Lamia attached or just by pulling lamia themself due to the caster factor.  You both may be pulling the same area of mobs but the make up might be alittle different.</P> <P>I still have my doubts that resist work anyway and how they are tied into mitigation if at all.</P> <P> </P> <P>However it stacks up, dont be too discouraged.  Because today is to today, and tomorrow is another day.</P>

[kildarn]

<DIV><----is the bruiser mentioned above.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I thought I would tack on a few things from my side to hopefully help the conversation.  I am lvl 49 atm so yes, shrug off is factored in.  I have played with both using it, and not using it on Cass.  The problem is that shrug off got beat to death with the nerf bat like nothing ever before.  It's also very heavily bugged.  The effects of it were reduced while the description was not, it doesn't show when the skill wears off, and the benefits of the skill do not show in the persona windows.  Neverless, I tried using it and noticed no difference in the abuse Cass was taking or any other tank I have casted it on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Technique may be one thing to it.  Although I must admit when Cass has tanked with me in the group I would say she is deffinately one of the better that I have seen.  Good timing, agro management, group control and positioning.  She has the skills and knowledge to do it very well.  It could be, as mentioned above, a combat skill thing.  When tanking I do use my combat skills in a particular order to maximize stunned and stiffled time.  When in a dps role I use combat skills in a fashion to maximize my dps.  Maybe it is in fact, me who is messing up things by not arranging my stuns and stiffles in a dps role?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lastly, your guys self heal is IMO waaaay broken.  I think you should have the same percentage as bruisers, with the longer duration being the penalty for the ability to cast it on others.  I would be up in arms about that.  Just don't get my heal put on the nerf board in the process  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>