Collecting FAQ information for "How do I Tank?"

[bonesbro]

<P>Here's my current answer for the question "How do I tank?"  Please respond with corrections, updates, and pictures of puppies.<BR><BR>Monks have to work a bit harder to be a good tank than some of the other fighters.  Avoidance is our primary defense, and you have to work carefully to position yourself so that you can avoid attacks from all your opponents.  When avoidance fails, we have to rely on our lower mitigation, so keeping your gear topnotch is crucial.  We lack some of the taunting ability of warriors and crusaders, so holding agro takes more work.  Finally, you'll have to work against the preconceived notion of many players that a Monk cannot tank, so just doing an ok job isn't good enough.<BR><BR><B>Choosing your equipment to tank</B>:<BR>Focus on armor with high mitigation (as measured by armor class) agility, and stamina.  Try not to let any of your gear turn blue and fall behind unless it is very high quality (legendary or fabled).  Handcrafted armor just isn't good enough, and if you're planning on tanking regularly then most treasured armor won't cut it either.  Make getting some legendary crafted armor a priority, starting with the tunic, legs, shoulders/bracers in that order.  Good jewelry is also important, though handcrafted will suffice here until you can find something better.  In general, it's better to sell rare gems than make jewelry out of them - you'll be able to buy a few pieces of new armor which will provide you a much greater benefit to your tanking abilities.<BR><BR>A two-handed weapon is generally recommended for use while tanking to minimize the number of ripostes you take, though you will usually suffer a str/agi penalty.  My opinion is that it's worth it, though I haven't seen any detailed parses comparing tanking damage taken with 2h vs. DW, though I don't think it's going to be a big difference.</P> <P>It won't matter much until endgame, but once you hit your 40s start keeping an eye out for armor and jewelry with good resistances.  Thulzite armor has good resists, but it's new and sometimes rather pricey.  There are some great cold resist pieces dropping in Everfrost these days - keep an eye out for the Tundra Walker's and Heavy Wool Threaded armor.  Some of the epic raids, like Vox and Articae, require huge amount of cold resist.  Remember that most pieces of armor for an equipment slot will always have the same stats - sleeves are always cold/poison, bracers always have +str and +int, etc.  Before you throw away some junky loot, doublecheck to see if it has a nonstandard set of resistances that make it worth keeping around for special occasions.<BR><BR><B>Tanking: Pulling the mobs</B>: <BR>There are two good ways to actually agro your pull to bring it back to your group: do something to it, or creep close enough to 'agro pull' it (described later).<BR><BR>In most circumstances it's safe to use one of your skills to agro the mob and pull it back to the group.  Running up and hitting it is probably the worst option.  You did a tiny bit of damage, and now it's going to hit you the whole time you're running back to the group.  Instead, here are a few better ways to pull:</P> <UL> <LI>A taunt.  You're going to want as much agro as possible when you make it back to the group, so why not lead off with a taunt?  Most taunts have a decently long range, so if you're pulling back a short distance you should be able to pull with a taunt and make it back to the group before they catch you.  This is the preferred pull strategy when you are not using agro pulls. [does taunt lock an encounter?]</LI> <LI>For long range pulls, the quickest way is to use either Focused Strike or throw a ranged weapon at them.  You get some additional running room but you will have much less control over the encounter's agro, so use this only when you can't get close enough to taunt.</LI> <LI>A hex doll.  This has more range than anything else we can do [it is longer than a ranged weapon, right?] and it lets your group benefit from some sort of debuff.  It has a very slow 8 second cast time so while it's casting a pull can wander away, get taken by another group, or get blown up by the bored wizard in your group.  I generally only use this as a last resort.</LI></UL> <P>About the 'agro pull': some mobs have social agro, like in EQ1, and will bring nearby encounters if you agro them.  However, if you creep close enough that they turn and attack you they'll leave their buddies behind.  Once they're safely away from their friends you can take action.  This behavior is the exception, not the rule, but it's important to recognize what's happening on your first few pulls so you can compensate.  Let the group know there's a higher risk for adds, and use safe agro pulls rather than pulling them with damage, taunts, or a hex doll.  Because pulling with agro doesn't lock an encounter, it lets you get back to the group at full speed - though I've had a named encounter stolen from me once or twice because of this.<BR><BR><STRONG>While you're running back:<BR></STRONG>Get agro.  Get as much as possible.  If the mob is chasing closely you can use your other taunts; getting off an AE taunt before the encounter makes it to the group is very important.  Not only does it help ensure that the mobs will say stuck to you, but the sooner you use it the greater the chance it'll be back up for use again during the fight.  Your group buff (the Call of Arms / Wisdom of Zephyl line) adds a lot of agro.  Use it while running back to the group.  If you've pulled with a taunt and used your AE taunt and your group buff you're going to have a much easier time holding agro throughout the fight.  Now is also a good time to hit Martial Focus.<BR><BR>Finally, try to position the mobs so they face away from the group.  Barrage is a dangerous AE melee attack that many mobs have, but it only hits players in front of the mob.  The strategy I favor, if I have room, is to pull off to one side of the group and to run past them, sort of in a flattened question mark shape.  Not only will this face the mobs away from the group but it will tend to bunch multiple mobs up together so it's easier to keep them all in your frontal arc (and thus, so you can deflect attacks from all of them).<BR><BR><B>Tanking: Ok, I've pulled em, now what?</B><BR>You should be starting the fight with a good chunk of agro, so now it's time to focus on staying alive.  First, try to get as many mobs in possible to be directly in front of you.  Generally, if you can't see the mob in first person mode then you can't deflect it.  Because most of our defense comes from deflection, any mob that's to your sides or behind you is really going to do a lot of damage.  If your strafe around the mobs in a circle you can usually get most of them in front of you, but if you pulled four or more mobs it's almost impossible to get them all in front of you.  Don't worry about it too much - I've been grouped with tanks that spent so long trying to get all the mobs in the perfect position that the group could have killed half of them before he settled down enough to allow us to start doing real damage.  Be smarter than them.</P> <P>If you're fighting in an area where you're going to be getting a lot of adds, you might want to ask your group to create an /assist macro instead of just attacking through you.  If your group is just attacking whatever you have targetted, then when you switch targets to taunt an add, someone in your group might land a huge damage spell and steal agro on a brand new mob.  Or, worse, if someone in your group is mezzing, when you switch to taunt a mezzed add, someone else will attack right through you and break that mez.  Now it's eating the enchanter.  Great.</P> <P>An /assist macro will keep the group focused on the original target, so you're free to target adds and taunt them.  Ask your group to create a social that does "/assist yourname" and to use it at the start of the fight.  You should create a social that says "Everyone kill %t!!"  EQ2 will automatically replace the %t with the name of whatever you have targetted.  Then your group hits their /assist macro and you're now free to change targets during the fight to taunt.</P> <P>Personally, I find that using /assist is more work than its worth in most places, but I'll admit that I've had a fair share of group wipeouts that could have been avoided if the group was using /assist instead of just attacking through the MT.</P> <P><STRONG>Holding Agro:</STRONG><BR>Your job as a tank is to minimze the damage your group takes while allowing the rest of your group to maximize their damage.  You maximize your group's DPS when you allow <STRONG>everyone</STRONG> to do maximum damage, and you don't do that by playing whack-a-mole with your combat arts.  That elf in the bathrobe?  He's going to be nuking less if you can't hold agro.  That slows down the whole group.  You maximize your group's DPS by allowing the high DPS classes like sorcerors to do their maximum damage without drawing agro.  Here are some tips:</P> <UL> <LI>Use your taunts when they're up.  Remember Velan's Taunting Cry, that level 10 training taunt?  It's awesome.  It's the best taunt we get.  Spam it.</LI> <LI>Your group buff (Call of Arms/Wisdom of Zephyl/Quiet Purity) adds a HUGE amount of agro.  It's especially awesome if your group has multiple encounters on you at once, because it will build agro on every mob, not just the ones in the encounter you have targetted.</LI> <LI>Completing a HO adds a bit of agro.  If your group isn't doing many HOs, start doing your solo chain.  It'll add a bit of damage and some nice HO agro.</LI> <LI>In a long fight, you're going to run out of power.  If things look like they're gonna take a while, don't use some of your combat arts so you can save that power for taunts.  Some of your CAs have pretty bad damage/power ratios.  Grappling Bear, Shoulder Charge, and Flying Kick are especially inefficient.</LI></UL> <P><STRONG>Other Tips:</STRONG></P> <UL> <LI>Keep your opponent useless.  If you took Lu'Sun's Stifle at 20, use it constantly.  Your biggest threats are special attacks and spells, and stifle is both a guaranteed interrupt and 4.9 seconds where it's impossible for your target to use either.  A second or so after the stifle drops, land a stun.  A second after it wears off, drop another stun.  Stifle them again when it's back up.  By alternating stifle and stuns as often as possible you will massively decrease the DPS of your target.</LI> <LI>Watch for adds.  If your group has a mezzer, ask them if they prefer you to taunt adds or leave them to be mezzed.  Even if they want to mez them, pay close attention as an add gets near.  If the enchanter is resisted they might not be able to mez it before it crushes them like a bug.  Remember that it can be dangerous to target a mezzed add to taunt them, because anyone in the group attacking through you will break the mez.  It's best to use your group buff to gain agro on mezzed adds.  It won't break mez, and it will probably get them to hate you more than the mezzer.</LI> <LI>Face of the Mountain adds a lot of mitigation, but it takes a lot of power and is a pain to cancel if you lose agro or need to get an add.  Use it carefully.</LI> <LI>Stone Stance is pretty tough to use.  Not only does it stun you, but against crushing damage it really isn't that good.  Against a slashing or piercing mob, however, you're almost invulnerable.  This is really more of an offtank skill than a skill to use while playing main tank.  If the MT is getting hammered or dies, try this:  use Rescue to grab agro, then use Stone Stance.  If you can, fire off your group buff right after the Rescue to grab a bit more agro.  If you're lucky, the mob will be glued to you for 10-20 seconds and you won't take much damage.  That gives the MT time to get rezzed and get ready to fight again.  And if it doesn't work and you get obliterated, hey, the other tank did too.</LI></UL><BR> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by bonesbro on <SPAN class=date_text>06-23-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:59 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by bonesbro on <span class=date_text>06-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:00 PM</span>

[woo]

<DIV>this is something i feel 90% of tanks i have grouped with (and then shortly after disbanded) should read.  sooo many cant hold aggro, cant pull, cant position mobs, nothin.. :smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>addition to the pulling tactics.. heres how i pull the typical named mob + buddies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ranged attack on named</DIV> <DIV>HO trigger</DIV> <DIV>agi debuff on named (pouncing tiger)</DIV> <DIV>lvl 10 training taunt (+221 agro to encounter, +221+221 to target which is ~440 to the named mob..)</DIV> <DIV>karmic focus (the short self buff.. depending on what lvl you are)</DIV> <DIV>face of mountain (the +AC buff depending on what lvl you are)</DIV> <DIV>stun attack (rushing bear)</DIV> <DIV>dmg debuff (grappling bear)</DIV> <DIV>AE attack (if safe to do so)</DIV> <DIV>switch to the "minions" of the named mob,</DIV> <DIV>->unload on mob with dmg, taunts, debuffs</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and i saw some mention about adds and face of mountain..  like to add:</DIV> <DIV>explain to the group about your tactics, knowledge is always the most powerfull weapon.  tell them if they get an add to run close to you.  always taunt adds IMMEDIATELY even if there is a chanter (it wont break mezz)</DIV>

[bonesbro]

It can be risky to taunt adds if you're both MT and MA, because it is extremely likely that someone in the group will have attack on or land a spell while you have the mob targetted to taunt. <div></div>

[woo]

<P>that is why you also tell your group to assist you, not target you.</P> <P> </P> <P>have a macro for /assist Anex (or whatever tanks name is).  that way you can switch targets now n then for taunts or whatever and the group will stay on the 1 target.</P>

[Gaige]

<P>Do not ever forget how useful our offense buffs like quiet purity and wisdom of zephyl are on the pull for generating hate.</P> <P>Also, when tanking, your job is to hold aggro, not do damage.  Conserve power for taunt/buff rotations, and stuns/stifles; do not try to outdamage the scouts/mages in your group.</P> <P>There are more, but Bones has done a very good job already, as always.</P> <P>The main thing is just be confident and lead the group, you'll learn eventually.  The rest of us did <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Fleaba]

<P>With the Jewelry I would like to point out that looking for good AC and good stats is on the top of the list, but I usually shop for jewelry by the Def. vs. Blah blah stats. With how much of a butt kicking I get from magic, etc. Having high Def. vs. various things is a must for me. The rares I harvest are never sold and usually put to good use via my own addepts, a daily group member's addepts, or rare jewelry just for the Ubber Def. Vs. stats. </P> <P>I guess I'm not in a hurry to own a horse or a fancy apartment, therefore I don't sell the rares.</P> <P>P.S. Nothing better then getting in a fight to see "Resisted" over your own head on a regular basis. :smileywink:</P>

[bonesbro]

<DIV>Thanks for the feedback so far.  I'll emphasize the taunts vs. dps balance, though conserving power for taunts is generally more of an issue on an epic mob instead of for a regular xp group.  Likewise with resistances, and I think I need another sentence or two extolling the virtues of using our group buffs for agro gain.  I'll also bring up the use of an /assist macro, though I don't personally like using one <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To butcher a quote: "Tanking isn't about killing the mob.  It's about getting the mob to die trying to kill you."</DIV>

[Xita]

<P>maybe because we often find ourselves in role of ST, we should add a line somewhere in between pulling and holidng aggro like:</P> <P> </P> <P>After the heavy plate class becomes a squishy spot on the named's shoe.... Shout, taunt, buff, slap until you get aggro, this will use lots of your power, so reserve additional power for holding aggro through the balance of the fight.</P> <P>Also maybe want to mention tossing shouts occasionally while ST so it is easier to get and hold aggro should main tank go down or should the wizzy draw aggro.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>-Lithe Starsoul<BR>33 Monk, Ethereal Valkyries<BR>Butcherblock</P>

[SGrim]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>woode wrote:<p>that is why you also tell your group to assist you, not target you.</p> <p>have a macro for /assist Anex (or whatever tanks name is).  that way you can switch targets now n then for taunts or whatever and the group will stay on the 1 target.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote> Yet, if you're MT, chances are your healers are going to have you targetted no matter how you tell them to assist and they'll probably also have autoattack on because there's really no drawback to doing so since they don't regen any differently with it on or off.  And if you're not taking a lot of damage, they'll be smiting too. This is why it's my preference to seperate MT and MA functions.  There's not reason one of the DPS classes in the group/raid can't be the MA.  Unfortunately, most tanks seem to be control freaks and don't like this and/or it's too complicated for your average lemming to understand.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by SGrim on <span class=date_text>05-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:58 PM</span>

[woo]

<P>main assist is great for raids and static groups, however your average pickup group consists of the average SOE players..  and the average SOE player isnt all that smart about the game.</P> <P> </P> <P>im lucky if the group can figure out which class heals and which class tanks, i usually dont push my luck on having them figure out how to assist a guy other than the tank.</P>

[SGrim]

Trust me, I hear ya. <div></div>

[bonesbro]

I am going to post this, I swear!

[Vorham]

<P>I agree that brawlers can't just stand there and expect to "tank"... ya gotta be pro-active.</P> <P>My main is lvl 41 bruiser, been tankin stuff 5+ levels over me  and double-up arrow since early 30's.</P> <P>For Bruiser:  Keep defensive stances up... Get aggro on inc... group taunt, solo taunt, cast group buffs as needed/able.</P> <P>Pop the mob with Eye Gouge (debuff its ability to hit you by 4 levels).. it's blocked probably 30% of the time from the front, hit from the back if you can.  If it lands, great.. mob just got a lot easier for the next 30sec or so... if mob was yellow or white it probably can't hit you now.</P> <P>If mob blocked it, ugh.  You gonna get hit a little, so...  Fire off Battle Fury/toughness... and if mob *WAY* over you, like lvl 49^^ and you're lvl 41 =)  ... then probably use Bruising Spirit+Heavy Scarring.. this will stun you, spam Slurred Insult to keep mob [Removed for Content] at you.</P> <P>Use your interrupts like Throat punch, Hammerfist, Grapple.. etc.. hell, even Intimidade/Jeer if you need.  Space them out to inflict maximum interruption to the mob... interrupts mean less damage incoming to you.</P> <P>Don't forget mend if you need it.</P> <P>By this time, if everything has been going alright your Eye Gouge is close to back up and your buffs are recycling... so basically rinse and repeat all of the above.  Haven't died while tanking yet, except when tons of mobs added and swarmed.</P> <P>Keep taunting during the fight, don't slack on this or mob might turn on healer/casters.</P> <P>That's how it goes for a Bruiser, would imagine the principles for a monk are the same.</P> <P> </P>

[bonesbro]

I've finally updated this FAQ.  Please consider this a final draft!  I'll be incorporating any feedback and posting the final FAQ to a new thread this weekend.