Tanking Etiquette

[TheFat]

<DIV>I had something happen the other night and I'd like some feedback as to whether or not you think things were handled correctly. I was in a group the other night and we had 2 tanks, myself (38 zerk) and a 40 monk. Before we headed out to hunt some named mobs I asked the monk if he would like to be MT or if he would prefer I take the position. The monk actually seemed to get a little ticked. He just said "Well, I will if you just absolutely don't wanna do your job but I wouldn't make much of a tank". That kinda' caught me off guard and I told him that no I'd be happy to tank I just thought that since he was 2 levels higher than me he might make a better tank considering we were going up against yellow double ups. </DIV> <DIV>I certainly didn't mean to offend the guy and the main reason I offered was because I'd read so many posts on this forum about how monks were getting sick of not even being considered when the job of MT came up. Should I have put the question to him in another manner or, when only separated by 2 levels, should I even ask? In my mind, we're all tanks and as long as we know what we're doing and have decent gear, the biggest factor in determing MT is level. Any thoughts?</DIV>

[Owa]

I think you acted perfectly. It sounds that you just picked a bit of a cowardy-custard to ask.

[bonesbro]

<DIV>You did fine.  Some Monks have grown so accustomed to playing the DPS role that they are surprised by any other possibilities.</DIV>

[Gaige]

<P>Yeah, in fact I appluad you for how you handled it.  You just have to realize that the forum posters are a minority when compared to all the monks out there playing; and a fairly large amount of them were probably monks in EQ1 or a similiar game were they weren't tanks.</P> <P>Its hard getting used to new things, and some guys are just set in their ways.</P> <P>Kudos to you though, for at least giving him the option.</P>

[FamilyManFir]

You did fine. Looks like you just got an over-sensitive player.As a 31 Berserker I paired up for a short time with a 33 Monk. I asked if he wanted to tank. He didn't get [Removed for Content], but he did say something like, "LOL, no you tank, my taunts suck."Now, when I was playing a Monk I wouldn't have said that. Granted, a Monk has to work overtime to keep aggro off of a Berserker (I swear, Zerks are <i>Kings</i> of Aggro even when they don't want to be!) but it's not impossible.Some Monks believe that they are, or should be, a DPS class. I don't think so (and SOE's Archetype system backs me up), but that's just MHO. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Nefari]

I often tank for guild groups....we have a particular Zerker who likes to annoy me by intentionally pulling aggro off me. (All in fun, not in a situation where it would actually threaten us). He's usually using an EBBC, if that fails...he whips out the PGT and aggro is his inside 15-20 seconds.  PGT, even at 50th lvl, is the ultimate aggro producer.  GRRRR <div></div>

[Dovifat]

Blame ignorance. Too many people don't even know the archetype system exists, much less what it's about. <div></div>

[woo]

<DIV>you handled it fine.. very few think that way.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>many are ignorant and think monks to be DPS only, personally iv only played a dps or off-tank roll maybe 3 times total in 38 levels</DIV>

[Raahl]

<DIV>I agree with everyone, you didn't do anything wrong.  I often offer the tanking position to a higher level fighter type. </DIV>

[Ulkesh-Blackburr]

<DIV>You acted courteously.  The guy had no reason to get upset about it.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pls, no one was being cowardly, he just didn't want to tank.  Personally, I do the same thing(except the rude part) depending on the level of the mob.  From my experience, my monk cannot efficiently or effectively tank a mob that is higher level.  Bottom line is all the avoidance doesnt do crap for him when they are higher level, imo.  Either they can't touch you, or you get owned :p  Mitigation seems to scale better than avoidance.  Just imo :p </DIV>

[Peachasa]

<span><blockquote><hr>Ulkesh-Blackburrow wrote:<div>You acted courteously.  The guy had no reason to get upset about it.  </div> <div> </div> <div>Pls, no one was being cowardly, he just didn't want to tank.  Personally, I do the same thing(except the rude part) depending on the level of the mob.  From my experience, my monk cannot efficiently or effectively tank a mob that is higher level.  Bottom line is all the avoidance doesnt do crap for him when they are higher level, imo.  Either they can't touch you, or you get owned :p  Mitigation seems to scale better than avoidance.  Just imo :p </div><hr></blockquote></span>The mobs were yellow to someone 2 levels under him which means they were even or blue to him. Which means avoidence woulda been effective.  I agree with you on the avoidence not scaling as well as mitigation. Anything even or under though a monk can tank with ease, and I am not saying that monks can not tank yellow/orange/red cons just that evens or lower hardly ever hit a monk. <div></div>

[woo]

<P>id love to know what the avoidance is like of those who say that as a monk they 'cant tank higher con mobs'..  at 36 w/ 81.2% avoidance self buffed i have no prob tanking as high as red con group mobs w/ only 1 healer.</P> <P> </P> <P>yesterday  i met a guy who said he read these forums (hes a 40 monk) and he told me that he couldnt tank well.. i examined his stats and noticed he had 100 more hp than me, and every other stat was lower..  he had 9% less avoidance even and he was a tier above me.. but he thought he had great gear and avoidance.  i have a fealing that people saying they cant tank are like this guy.. they think 75% avoidance is good enough and that not tanking is good enough.</P>

[SGrim]

You handled the situation correctly. The monk was just a jerk. However, monk tanking is fairly situational and there are many cases where a 2 level higher monk will not tank as well.  Monks are avoidance tanks and avoidance is far too reliant on the random number generator as opposed to mitigation which is consistently applied. If you're in a group fighting something that hits very hard and you have only 1 healer, a monk may not be the best tank because 2-3 bad rolls in a row on avoidance and the monk is face down in the dirt faster than a single healer can keep up.  A mitigation tank, on the other hand, will take those 2-3 hits in stride because they only take 40% or less of the damage from them while the monk will have taken 70% of each hit.  If your healer is a shaman, it mitigates this affect a lot because wards are effectively mitigation. In the right situations, monks make the very best tanks in my opinion.  But each class in the archetype has their shining moment and the most important thing is the ability to know when you're in your element and when it's best to step aside and let someone else who's element it is tank. <div></div>

[Cyngii]

Kudos to tanks that actually take the time to ponder the question of who would be best suited to tank a specific mob.  I've ran into groups where fighters would fight over who would be MT which is just humorous.  The only times i've been asked to tank in groups with a Berserker/Guardian of similar level have been when a) were in a dungeon that i was more familiar with the area b) they got tired of pulling or c) they ran out of ammo.  Personally I have no problem with that, and think that a plate tank + martial discipline is a pretty dang good combo (especially when fighting mobs 5+ higher level).  Another thing i've ran across is there are a lot of [Removed for Content] equipped tanks out there.  Not saying that I've got great gear, but when your MT isn't even carrying a ranged weapon cause they never got around to buying one, or you've got 300 more unbuffed HP than a monk a level higher than you, it makes you wonder. 

[XunSarak]

<P>Asking was the polite thing to do. As a 45 Monk, I very seldom get asked to tank. I usually tank for guild and friends but really have no preference either way. Just change skills and buffs to suit job. Who tanks is based more on group composition and mob. But even in cases where I am definately a better choice, being MA insetad of MT still has the same result, dead mob. And that is the point, isn't it?</P> <P>From SGrim's answer, wish we were on the same server. Respect <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Xita]

<P>Awesome job asking. Normally when in group with a high mitigation tank, i like to let them tank and use my martial dicipline to buff them up a little. However, time and time again I have been able to prove that monks are perfectly capable tanks for most situations. </P> <P>For monks that think they aren't good tanks, this is understandable. I make 2 small changed between DPS mode and Tank mode. I also always let my group know which mode I am in. The difference is between using an offensive art or defensive art and tranqulity on my main healer. the other difference is in weapons. I use dual wield when doing DPS and a large slow staff when tanking. </P> <P>Sometimes everything goes wrong and i am forced to tank in my DPS mode. when that happens my HP drop like a rock until i can make all the switches (change arts/ swap weapons.) If a person has built their monk for DPS from day one. I can understand why they feel they can't tank effectively.</P> <P> </P>

[mellowknees72]

<DIV>You definitely did the right thing in asking the monk if he wanted to tank. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I suppose that some folks just may not know how much their characters can do.  I've always made it my mission, in every game I've played, to find out what all my various abilities can do, and to test them out to make sure they do what I expect.  Sometimes you have to be creative with how/in what order you use different abilities to get the best results, and some folks may not be willing to do that (or might not think of it).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My guild is a very small group of friends.  We have 2 monks who regularly tank (myself and a human monk friend o' mine).  We also have an awesome paladin who is a few levels higher than us monks.  When he's in the group, he pretty much always tanks (and does a great job).  When we mentor down and we're at the same level, he always asks if one of us monks would like to tank, which we usually will do.  I have not noticed much difference between paladin and monk tanking.  Both of us can hold aggro, both of us have good damage outputs...in other words, in my opinion, either makes a great tank.  I guess it comes down to the person behind the character and what they're willing to do. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>