Combat changes part duex!!!!

[SageMarrow]

<DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Moorgard</FONT> Wrote:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know people are anxious for the healing changes, but we aren't rushing anything. These changes are significant, and will take time. It won't be LU#8, and we're not imposing a deadline. All I can say is that they are in progress right now. <P>The healing balance pass will be part of an overall spell/art revamp that is in the works. We want to address all these things at once rather than some now and some later. The changes will be big for all classes. We aren't just balancing within archetypes, but rather across all subclasses.</P> <DIV>I just made a post in the Test update notes section that details the next revision of the combat changes, which will be going up on the Test server tonight. These adjustments should address many of the issues players reported in the first pass. The changes include:</DIV> <UL> <LI>Fighting blue con and lower encounters should feel more like combat on the live servers.</LI> <LI>Fighting yellow and higher cons should be as challenging or a bit more so than with the first version of combat changes.</LI> <LI>Armor quality (Handcrafted, Fabled, Legendary, etc.) is more meaningful than it was before.</LI> <LI>The Parry skill can once again be buffed.</LI> <LI>Buff caps now scale more appropriately as the character increases in level.</LI> <LI>Agility buffs now have a more meaningful effect.</LI> <LI>Strength buffs now have a more significant impact on damage output.</LI> <LI>Kite shields now block with the same effectiveness as tower shields.</LI></UL> <P>Once again, please fight the encounters you would normally fight and let us know what you think of the changes.</P> <P>Let me stress again that these changes will remain on Test only for the foreseeable future. <STRONG>They won't be going live as part of Live Update #8.</STRONG></P> <P></P> <HR> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Just posting it here, as an FYI... seems like we are in for some pretty big changes...</FONT></P></DIV>

[Gaige]

<P>Wonder what this means:</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> Moorgard wrote: <P></P> <P>I know people are anxious for the healing changes, but we aren't rushing anything. These changes are significant, and will take time. It won't be LU#8, and we're not imposing a deadline. All I can say is that they are in progress right now.</P> <P>The healing balance pass will be part of an overall spell/art revamp that is in the works. We want to address all these things at once rather than some now and some later<FONT color=#ffff00>. The changes will be big for all classes. We aren't just balancing within archetypes, but rather across all subclasses. </FONT> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P>

[zabor]

Agility buffs now have a more meaningful effect.Yeah, this really looks good.<p>Message Edited by zaboron on <span class=date_text>04-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:18 AM</span>

[SageMarrow]

<P>thats a good question... it could mean a number of things.</P> <DIV>it could mean that they are trying to balance them into roles with a core principle behind them...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>basically meaning that each class has a purpose inside a purpose so to speak. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so while a monk is highly dps capable, he is also viable tank in the absence there of. Which is actually what we have now= but to a more defined extent across all classes in that fashion.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Heck i dont know. But i would not be surprised to see a class get a complete overhaul out of this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(edit: zeboron, the players from the test server said it wasnt much, only like 1% or so...nothing to be of note. Its just MORE than it was previously. not significantly though- just have to wait and see)</DIV><p>Message Edited by SageMarrow on <span class=date_text>04-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:20 AM</span>

[ArivenGemini]

<span><blockquote><hr>SageMarrow wrote:<div></div> <div><font color="#ff0000">Moorgard</font> Wrote:</div> <div><ul><li>Kite shields now block with the same effectiveness as tower shields.</li></ul></div><hr></blockquote> So let me get this straight...  Cursaders get: heavy armor kite shields that are now as good as tower shields Wards Heals Adding all this up, they get better defenses than ANY of the fighter classes... so those boosts to agility buffs darn well better even the playing field with my monk... (and my berserker for that matter)...   a balance is good... giving someone extensively more goodies than other sub-classes is only going to cause a spiraling nerf fest.. </span><div></div>

[SageMarrow]

<P> i dont think they are anywhere near done Ariven... I think its just a small drop in the bucket.</P> <P>Basically if you read closely, moorgard basically says that in a round about way = some classes will be getting a total overhaul,. While we know he cant say that aloud. Its apparently whats implied to me.</P> <DIV>spell/art revamp...</DIV>

[woo]

<P>towershilds get better mitigation..</P> <P> </P> <P>and its still in testing</P>

[ArivenGemini]

<span><blockquote><hr>SageMarrow wrote:<p> i dont think they are anywhere near done Ariven... I think its just a small drop in the bucket.</p> <p>Basically if you read closely, moorgard basically says that in a round about way = some classes will be getting a total overhaul,. While we know he cant say that aloud. Its apparently whats implied to me.</p> <div>spell/art revamp...</div><hr></blockquote>Trust me, I know they are not done... but it is still something that needs to be addressed and paid attention to.. </span><div></div>

[Dfoley3]

<DIV>Few more notes from test server</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Light armor now has even less mitigation, while heavy and medium have more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Was about a 11% reduction for the pristine rare t2, 3, and 4s</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Medium was a 15% inc, and heavy was a 10 % inc</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as for the comment on crusaders vs guardians with the sheilds</DIV> <DIV>1) its the avoidance value that is now equal (it was 19% vs 20%)</DIV> <DIV>2) tower shields still retain a higher sheild rating</DIV> <DIV>3) tower shields have 15% more ac</DIV> <DIV>4) if your gonna list all the tuff crusdaers get "heals wards, etc" you might wanna list all the stuff guardians get</DIV> <DIV>ie,  +parry buffs, the best +defense buffs,  2 direct taunts, and 2 ae dmg skills that add taunt, better shields (via ac and shield factor), dual weild, and the ability to use any weapon..... so i think the 1% inc for crusaders was fair....it was infact, just a 1% inc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Back to the armor....this has me seriously worried, on test, greens and blues are now easier, but the decreased mitigation hurts.  Also yeah agi does more now, but thats just cause we are down even further on mitigation.  I dont mind heavy tanks mitigationg more, but we are getting dangerously close to the same situation as before, where monks dodge a ton more, but at the expense that 1 good hit can blow us up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some of the combat changes ahve already been pushed live.  Mobs hit more often now with melee, and less often and less hard with CA.  which for me translated to my 47 monk now has a hard time soloing green group mobs...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i encourage yall to spend a day or two on test, make a new toon, play it 1 day a week, the extra feed back from those on test really helps.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[SageMarrow]

<DIV>dam that sucks [Removed for Content]!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They nerfed LA again for more mit?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/cry, im a puller from 500 years in the past....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>or maybe im overreacting.... i sure hope so</DIV>

[Tully]

<DIV>This would be fine if they increased the effectiveness of deflection.</DIV>

[ChaosDivine]

Ok, so a few months back they nerfed AGI and Str, now they are gonna slightly un-nerf them?, I wish they would explain these things a bit more before they throw them at us , Gage, I guess you decided not to go to the test server after all? Do we have any regular monks that post here who play on test?

[SageMarrow]

none that are above level 23 or so...

[stfields]

<DIV> <HR> <LI>Agility buffs now have a more meaningful effect. <LI>Kite shields now block with the same effectiveness as tower shields. <HR> </LI></DIV> <P>This "could" be their version of balancing tanks.  Give monks/bruisers back their ability to tank very well with agility.  Bring SK/Pally up near Guardian levels with similar shield blocking ability...  </P> <P>I think that Guardian buffs still do better for defense+, which in my mind is probably one of the best things to bring up.  </P> <P>And... if strength actually effects damage output, that will make fighter/scout classes have to be more picky about what gear they pick.  No longer can scouts just go agi for power.  </P> <P>I am cautiously optimistic.  If they do it right, this can be very very good.  </P>

[Kylins]

<P>My opinion on the matter is... If it aint broke, don't fix it... The whole combat change seems unnessessary, for the first time since I can remember, the tanks are balanced with the exception of zerker dps, but I won't go into that.</P> <P>I can just feel that this whole thing will go live, and somehow brawler tanking will be horribly broken, and we will have to endure it for a month before any significant patch will be made to fix it lol.. </P> <P> </P>

[Crunion]

<P>I see agil buffs has more meaningful effect, but I didn't notice if they have removed the avoidance cap that was suppose to be coming.</P> <P>Currently at lvl 50 I can almost get upto 198 agil which is around 79% avoidance. If they keep the avoid cap in the game I hope we it based on subclass and gives the monk 90% cap and the others 50% or less to balance us out. My guild recently killed Darathar and I know there would be no hope in hell that a monk could tank that mob and the same goes with all the 50+ epic group mobs out there. But gives us green ^^ mobs or green group heroic mobs and we do fine.</P> <P>Which brings we to a revelation I had the otherday.... My ability to tank isn't based on my armor nor my level, its based on A STAT and that stat isn't my main stat as a monk (which is str), its based on my agil.  :smileysurprised:</P> <P>So while sony is sitting around thinking how to fix classes and balance us they need to look at that fact. I found a robe that I like to run around in and still haven't attuned it, but i still get 77% avoidance while wearing it.</P> <P>And HPs I hope someone somewhere take a look at why we get the lowest HPs.</P> <P> </P> <P>No real point to this post i'm just confused over this whole monks are a tank, no we are not think.</P>

[diamondma]

<DIV>ok guys cry less be more happy. we are THE ONLY class that i know of that can tank well and do some sick dps. the only raid mobs that are out of reach right now are the 50+ ones. since i hit 50 i have not gotten under 160 dps on any mob that i tried on. my current high on a yellow^^ mob is 360dps the only classes i have seen come close to that are wizards that completely drain their power bars and warlocks, and imo that aint bad. all in all the changes sound good to me. </DIV>

[Chanliang]

One thing that that is making me curious is that high str vs. agi affecting damage taken/dealt. I wonder how significant this will be when it goes to live some day. <div></div>

[FamilyManFir]

Crunion, in response to one of your concerns, they're not capping Avoidance per se, they're capping how far Avoidance skills and stats can be buffed. So, just for sake of argument, maybe there's a +25 cap on Defense, a +25 cap on Deflecton, and a +25% cap on Agi effects. Guardians, who start with a lower Avoidance, say an average of 30%, would be able to buff only so far, say to 50%. Monks, who start with a higher Avoidance (mainly due to Deflection, which is better than shields), say an average of 45%, would also be able to buff only so far, say to 65%. The difference between the two subclasses is maintained by capping the <i>buffs</i>, not by capping Avoidance overall.<i>All numbers are pretend only</i>, I have no idea what the real numbers are on Test right now, nor what they may become before this goes live.

[Skha]

<blockquote><hr>Dfoley323 wrote:<DIV>Few more notes from test server</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Light armor now has even less mitigation, while heavy and medium have more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Was about a 11% reduction for the pristine rare t2, 3, and 4s</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Medium was a 15% inc, and heavy was a 10 % inc</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as for the comment on crusaders vs guardians with the sheilds</DIV> <DIV>1) its the avoidance value that is now equal (it was 19% vs 20%)</DIV> <DIV>2) tower shields still retain a higher sheild rating</DIV> <DIV>3) tower shields have 15% more ac</DIV> <DIV>4) if your gonna list all the tuff crusdaers get "heals wards, etc" you might wanna list all the stuff guardians get</DIV> <DIV>ie,  +parry buffs, the best +defense buffs,  2 direct taunts, and 2 ae dmg skills that add taunt, better shields (via ac and shield factor), dual weild, and the ability to use any weapon..... so i think the 1% inc for crusaders was fair....it was infact, just a 1% inc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Back to the armor....this has me seriously worried, on test, greens and blues are now easier, but the decreased mitigation hurts.  Also yeah agi does more now, but thats just cause we are down even further on mitigation.  I dont mind heavy tanks mitigationg more, but we are getting dangerously close to the same situation as before, where monks dodge a ton more, but at the expense that 1 good hit can blow us up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some of the combat changes ahve already been pushed live.  Mobs hit more often now with melee, and less often and less hard with CA.  which for me translated to my 47 monk now has a hard time soloing green group mobs...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i encourage yall to spend a day or two on test, make a new toon, play it 1 day a week, the extra feed back from those on test really helps.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>If they lower LA mitigation its gonna be very serious hit especially against +++ mobs which can already 2-shot us with ease if the MT group isnt really good.

[Sa'meria]

<P>This sounds interesting too for our rare and dropped armor.</P> <HR> <LI>Armor quality (Handcrafted, Fabled, Legendary, etc.) is more meaningful than it was before.</LI> <UL></UL> <DIV> <HR> </DIV>

[ShashLigai]

<P>I hope that all the classes won't be too balanced, its the imbalances between chars that require groups and raids and cooperation among guild members, etc that make this game more than just a DC. </P>