I quit today cause the game is just not fun anymore for me.

[NeVeRLi]

I quit because the game was just not for me. I had a few moments in the game that were fun. Just look around on the forums or search for my nick to see some of the problems I think this game has. IMHO EQ2 was rushed out to meet WoW and it shows in every aspect of the game. The classes are not balanced and the game is not tailored for most classes to enjoy the game. I did not enjoy spending hours looking for group and I did not like any of the big guilds on the server the game lacks good solo content and does not reward you. The fact that game has earned the nick name Evercamp is not even funny and the Dev's need to get a clue as to what is fun and reward the casual player as well as the hardcore player. I was hardcore and camped [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] all day sometimes grey stuff. I made it to lvl 47 with no guild support and earned all my stuff and did my best to experience the game and see what it had to offer. I did almost 500 quests and I completed 8 heritage quests. Even thou crafting was boring and no fun and I hated the economy of the game I still crafted to lvl 37 provisioner to experience it and see what it had to offer. I feel the games economy is ruined and crafting is boring and no fun. I dont know if they can ever fix it... Like I said, I was a level 47 Monk and level 37 Provisioner and have played the game since Dec 15th. I have been pretty vocal on the forums on what I felt was wrong with the game. The most fun for me was actually the levels 13- 25 the game content for those levels seems alot better IMHO and there was always people around. As I leveled up higher thou I found the game lacking in content and the zones empty and would spend hours looking for groups or would catch a group with one the high level guilds like Genesis or Legion of Sorrow and grind with them or do a raid. And Raiding is boring and no fun IMHO and hell to give you a perfect example of how flawed the games combat is (defense skill/avoidance) When 2-3 people can beat a epic monster but it takes them 2hrs to do it that IMHO is not fun and is boring. A lucky <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=136109110" target=_blank>Dinpor</a> got my stuff, which was three rhodium, 3 luminous extracts and 3 superb pelts and some other high end stuff along with 5p. Good luck fellow Monks and I will be playing Dungeon & Dragons Online. I plan on beta testing it and playing it when it comes out this fall. The dev's for DDO see the mistakes EQ2 and WoW made and being that D&D is the grand daddy of rpg's I have high hopes for DDO. <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=136109110" target=_blank></a><div></div>

[SageMarrow]

<P>great post neverlift, while im positive the one stars and flames are sure to come. i was thinking about a few things last night.</P> <P>I was wondering on a realistic level of how could they expan upon this game within the current set up. And i came to a quiet solution...</P> <P>They cant.</P> <P>They cant create one thing in the current scheme because someone will start a war about it. If they introduce anything new into the game at his point outside of content, be it armor, weapons, class specific mounts, new mounts period.</P> <P>Anything that they do will be met with opposition. Simply because the game is too generic in its approach. Everything that the devs have implemented to make thier lives easier has become a nightmare. Class balance, races not having any impact on class...</P> <P>How do you give class or race specific armor without someone screaming to high heavens that thier class/races sucks? Which isnt the bigger deal, but in the case of EQ2, it is. When you make yourselves out to be a people pleaser but then double back and do whats **right for the longterm**. You sell yourself short.</P> <P>I could go on for days and days about all the shortcomings and totally **NOT** thought out parts of this game that have caused total uproots of the in game mechanics. There is no reason at all for a total economic shift and another total economic shift, followed by a combat uproot (agility nerf), and yet an even larger overhaul that will change the way 24 entire classes play??? </P> <P>That screams alot of bad things about this game, whether the fans think so or not.  They will spend the entire first year of production fixing what they broke, and passify the diehards by add ins and content add ons... But as neverlift already said, post 30 when everyone gets done playing thier alts and such, you will find TOTALLY empty zones. I have been in RE for hours at time LFG, and at level 35, there was 1 person in the zone...me.</P> <P>There are tons of quest that i havent completed and probably wont because i cant ever find a group to complete them...Haddens earing, Everfrost access...and more to the list. I dont have any RL friends that i know when and how they play, i dont have a great guild with players that are always on...so guess what i have to do? Kill turtles on the coast of EL until someone desides to stumble into a zone where im playing.</P> <P>Between the class balancing and the gaming environment, SOE seems to be trying to corner the market on casual gamers. This game does not permit anything for hardcore gamers at all. Raids...okay - but they can be completed in 2 days. Classes are being balanced around jobs, and not classes. I wonder why SOE thinks people play these games? To group? To tradeskill? No of course not, its to play a fantasy online game, have fun, and be successful while doing so, after all we do pay to play. </P> <P>So explain something to me, You build a game around PvE, lay claim to 24 classes, dont add anything special to the game that hasnt been done before (and better i might add), and then turn to balance the classes around jobs, that are REQUIRED to do when grouping, which is the only way to advance your character????</P> <P>Talk about force feeding fun. People dont play a monk because they want to be a night in shining armor, just like they dont play an assassin cause they dont want to be an assassin, they want to be a monk. in a PvE game, there should be no such thing as overpowered or a trade off. Who cares what another class gets or doesnt get, its should be about 1 thing, who does what **loosely**. </P> <P>At this point a subclass wont even work because the minute you give players a choice they will break the archetype system. And personally i dont see the fun in being a level 200 bruiser...wow.. we just scaled the game vertically as far as we could go with the same spell lines and crap as before. And as eventful as AA's might be, its old and doesnt really provide anything in a game of this nature. ITS PVE with bad scalability and it was poorly thought out past **get the game out to compete with WOW**.</P> <P>I agree neverlift, i dont know if they can fix it either, i dont think <STRONG><EM>they</EM></STRONG> know for that matter. Especially if they plan to expand the game with things like Families and "strategic combat"= which isnt happening... EQ2 is the laughing stock of MMO's. Other games go out of thier way to make fun of this game... Because they see what the fan boys dont, the money making scheme. The implementation of something like /pizza is insulting to even the most hardcore of gamers when we have so many other in game problems, not to mention real life ones to boot.</P> <P>so hey neverlift... Happy trails and keep your name, im sure that i will see you in DDO beta late this summer!!!  </P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by SageMarrow on <span class=date_text>04-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:28 AM</span>

[Sysiphus7]

<DIV>I always hate to see a Monk leave... Best wishes...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://home.dc.rr.com/rhadaway/NeverLift.gif"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sys</DIV><p>Message Edited by Sysiphus7 on <span class=date_text>04-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:21 AM</span>

[Velor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> NeVeRLiFt wrote:<BR>I quit because the game was just not for me. I had a few moments in the game that were fun. Just look around on the forums or search for my nick to see some of the problems I think this game has.<BR>IMHO EQ2 was rushed out to meet WoW and it shows in every aspect of the game.<BR>The classes are not balanced and the game is not tailored for most classes to enjoy the game. I did not enjoy spending hours looking for group and I did not like any of the big guilds on the server the game lacks good solo content and does not reward you. The fact that game has earned the nick name Evercamp is not even funny and the Dev's need to get a clue as to what is fun and reward the casual player as well as the hardcore player. I was hardcore and camped [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] all day sometimes grey stuff. I made it to lvl 47 with no guild support and earned all my stuff and did my best to experience the game and see what it had to offer. I did almost 500 quests and I completed 8 heritage quests. Even thou crafting was boring and no fun and I hated the economy of the game I still crafted to lvl 37 provisioner to experience it and see what it had to offer. I feel the games economy is ruined and crafting is boring and no fun. I dont know if they can ever fix it...<BR>Like I said, I was a level 47 Monk and level 37 Provisioner and have played the game since Dec 15th. I have been pretty vocal on the forums on what I felt was wrong with the game. The most fun for me was actually the levels 13- 25 the game content for those levels seems alot better IMHO and there was always people around. As I leveled up higher thou I found the game lacking in content and the zones empty and would spend hours looking for groups or would catch a group with one the high level guilds like Genesis or Legion of Sorrow and grind with them or do a raid. And Raiding is boring and no fun IMHO and hell to give you a perfect example of how flawed the games combat is (defense skill/avoidance) When 2-3 people can beat a epic monster but it takes them 2hrs to do it that IMHO is not fun and is boring.<BR><BR>A lucky <A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=136109110" target=_blank>Dinpor</A> got my stuff, which was three rhodium, 3 luminous extracts and 3 superb pelts and some other high end stuff along with 5p.<BR><BR><BR>Good luck fellow Monks and I will be playing Dungeon & Dragons Online. I plan on beta testing it and playing it when it comes out this fall. The dev's for DDO see the mistakes EQ2 and WoW made and being that D&D is the grand daddy of rpg's I have high hopes for DDO.<BR><A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=136109110" target=_blank></A> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Based on the content of your post, I would agree. This game is not for you. At all.</P> <P>As for DDO and WoW and any other MMO you want to toss into the fray, each one will obviously be different and unique. But know this. All of them are guaranteed to have several of the exact same issues you cited above. And guess what? They're also going to have entirely new issues altogether that you never even think about either. That's what happens when you try to design a game for hundreds of thousands of unique individuals. And you'll never please everyone either. The entire MMO genre has been proving that for at least 8 years running now.</P> <P>I could disect every issue you mentioned and tell you why it is what it is but I won't. Besides, what do you really care anyway, right? You've already left. </P> <P>GL. I hope you find what you're looking for.</P><p>Message Edited by Velorek on <span class=date_text>04-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:32 PM</span>

[Gaige]

<DIV>Sorry to see you go, Never <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Nemi]

<span><blockquote><hr>SageMarrow wrote:<div></div><p>.... in a PvE game, there should be no such thing as overpowered....</p> <div></div><p>Message Edited by SageMarrow on <span class="date_text">04-03-2005</span> <span class="time_text">10:28 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Sage, do you even understand the concept of a MMORPG? Its about cooperation, its about social interaction, its about combining forces to overcome obstacles. What you seem to be suggesting is a single player game. Your  statement above holds true for 1 player games, not MMORPGS. As this game is about cooperation and teamwork, the greatest problem is 1 class being OVERPOWERED. Because you negate the need for other classes and you end up with no diversity and a very unhappy segment of your player base. Remind you of anything? Oh yes, Guardians - Highest HPs, Highest Mitigatoin, can Max avoidance, and best taunts. Why have 5 other subclasses. Your logic is flawed and your arguments weak. I won't be surprised to see you posting a similar thread to Neverlifts. </span><div></div>

[Ili]

<P>I totally feel for you, and I'm pretty close to being there myself.</P> <P>Without totally flaming the game, because I do think that it was revolutionary in several aspects, unfortunatley, there isn't really individuality. I think for myself, I played EQ1 when it was still done by Verant, before SoE bought the complete rights. (Quit shortly after SoL was released) The Archetype system, while a good idea for some, doesn't work for people that like to be a little different.</P> <P>I'm not gonna go yet, just because I want to see whan ends up happening with the balance issues, and what's going to come of the first expansion, but... Getting close. I hope you find a good game for you... Vanguard has caught my eye currently.</P> <P>Anyways, good luck to you.</P> <P>-Ilina</P>

[OgApostrap]

<DIV>I think ddo will be a good game.. It is made by the same people who made my favorite game.. Asheron's Call.. Sadly.. if you are wanting balance.. you probably wont get it in a game made by them.. I played for 4 adn a half years.. adn by the time they had added like 2 years of content they had to completely redo some stuff tog et any word of balance.. The games now rampant with cheaters and un-illegal ways to be unkillable.. To fix it they jsut screw it up more.. hopefully they have a different team working on ddo when it goes live.. or else it too might be screwed..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(They actually removed the ability to do almsot anything but fight in pvp, you cant run portal, recall, you can barely even kill yourself now..)</DIV> <DIV>( The top aprt mgith not be so bad if mages couldn't nuke for a few hundred and wear armor a melee can, if they wanted balance then melees shouldn't do 10 dmg while a mage can point adn click for 300+ ;o)(Max hp is around 500) ;o</DIV>

[Wiou]

To be brutally honest, if you're honestly quitting with no regrets, you wouldn't post about it. <div></div>

[Velor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ilina wrote:<BR> <P>Vanguard has caught my eye currently.</P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The more and more I follow up on that game, the more and more excited I become. Sigil was created by many of the people behind the original EverQuest as well as the Kunark and Velious expansions (my favorites). Brad McQuaid, Jeff Butler, Keith Parkinson, Steve Burke, Lawrence Poe, and several others were all there when EQ1 launched. Their main objective with Vanguard it appears is to try to recapture that old EQ1 magic. It won't be for everyone but I'm personally looking forward to it.</P> <P>Reading the FAQ at the Vanguard website got me way pumped up for this game.</P> <P>Anyway, sorry for the thread-jack. </P>

[NeVeRLi]

Thanks guys I did not expect these kinds of posts. The only thing I can say is yes I have some regret as EQ2 was my first. But the way I see it now EQ2 needs to mature and with all these changes(patches) they are making its not fair to the users who have already experienced it or I should say level past it.(mentoring was good ideal) I paid $50 for the game and its sitting here and in time I might come back to it. The dev's in this game seem ok and at least post on the forums and communicate with the players. All these class balancing and bug fixes will take time (SoE is having it bite them in the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] for rushing the game out to meet WoW) and the way it stands now the server I was on had empty zones (all zones past TS where empty for the most part) and very bad economy! When I come back they already made it so rares for the first three tiers are twice as easy to find. And with attunement and imbue I wont make mistakes on wasting rares or items I know I wont need. I actually enjoyed the game up to EL and Zek and then it sorta just fell apart from there. I will be sure and get on the most crowded server so as to try to avoid the LFG for hours problem and empty zones (Feerrott, Everfrost and Lavastorm were always empty) I would almost always see the same handful of people LFG or the small groups from certain guilds grinding. I assume the economy will always be bad in games like this as greed and #1 come first and the way the game does not reward the casual player. With the changes to selling and quest/dropped items maybe it will get better.... I know I wont miss it the way it is now and these changes might [Removed for Content] people off. I will miss the contacts I worked so hard to make and the few friends I made. Without there kindness and fairness I would not have had the  equipment I had (T5 rare made armor and weapons and adept III's). So a big thanks to Lovebb the best weapon smith on the server, Mohatma the nice and awesome tailor and Rollman the alchemist and Grondax the lazy woodworker. Thanks guys and keep up the good work. EQ2 has alot going for it. PS: I know my wife is happy that I quit and this was a suprise to her <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[SageMarrow]

neverlift, what server were you on anyway?

[NeVeRLi]

<div></div>I was on Highkeep and my name was Kalidor. EDIT: Alot people ask me where I got my name, if you look at Arnold's characters name in the movie "Red Sonya" you will see it was Kaildor and I always used it. My last name Acoma came from the book series Raymond E Fiest wrote, "Daughter of the Empire". http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0089893/ http://www.harpercollins.com.au/title.cfm?ISBN=0586074813&Author=0000196 <div></div><p>Message Edited by NeVeRLiFt on <span class=date_text>04-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:10 PM</span>

[SageMarrow]

<P>ok that sounds about right and seems to be the reason we endure the same problem... Im Ravensage. Highkeep is very bad about that.</P> <P>and explains the fact that we had similar experiences.</P>

[Azr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nemi wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SageMarrow wrote:<BR> <P>.... in a PvE game, there should be no such thing as overpowered....</P><BR> <P>Message Edited by SageMarrow on <SPAN class=date_text>04-03-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:28 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Sage, do you even understand the concept of a MMORPG?<BR><BR>Its about cooperation, its about social interaction, its about combining forces to overcome obstacles. What you seem to be suggesting is a single player game. Your  statement above holds true for 1 player games, not MMORPGS.<BR><BR>As this game is about cooperation and teamwork, the greatest problem is 1 class being OVERPOWERED. Because you negate the need for other classes and you end up with no diversity and a very unhappy segment of your player base.<BR><BR>Remind you of anything? Oh yes, Guardians - Highest HPs, Highest Mitigatoin, can Max avoidance, and best taunts. Why have 5 other subclasses.<BR><BR>Your logic is flawed and your arguments weak. I won't be surprised to see you posting a similar thread to Neverlifts.<BR><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Nemi, everything you say is important about MMOs is but to me they are all tertiarry. I think the most important primary aspect of an MMO world is freedom of choice and unfortunatly that is one of the bigest things lacking in EQ2. From lvl 40 to 50 I can basically count on 1 hand the soloable areas in game. The most important choices in this game are made for you in almost all respects. I never fealt so hand held in an mmo before. Sure I have the choice to solo 1 of a few soloable mobs or I can group and actually gain experience. This game is  like a 1 tunnel maze that all classes run through with little or no chance to get lost and the same piece of cheese waiting for everyone at the end of it. Do I still play, sure I do, but the lack luster increases dailly. Let's hope the expanssions fill the grand canyon size gaps in this game.

[ForceUs]

<font color="#ffcc33">My top two criticisms of EQ2 are as follows.</font><font color="#ffcc33"> </font><font color="#ffcc33"> </font><font color="#ffcc33">1. <b><font color="#ff0000">It's too easy.</font></b> I could smear banana on my keyboard and throw a chimp in the chair, and he'd eventually pound out level 50. Corpse recoveries, level loss upon death, social agro among mobs, the inability to distinguish which mobs were agro-linked--all of these things added up to a more challenging gameplay experience in EQ1. In EQ2, death has little impact on my game, and there is no requirement for finesse play at all--the EQ1 holy trinity of tank/healer/CC has simply been replaced by the holy trinity of tank/healer/DPS. As a consequence, the game is simply about brutishly beating monsters down, and the penalty for death is too light (and they've made it even lighter since release by reducing XP debt).</font><font color="#ffcc33"> </font><font color="#ffcc33"> </font><font color="#ffcc33">2. <b><font color="#ff0000">Access quests. </font></b>In EQ1 a level 5 guy could (and often did) accidentally wander into a high-level zone. When I first zoned into West Commonlands and saw red, red giants and griffons I almost wet myself, and the run from Qeynos to Freeport was harrowing and exhilarating, especially when trying to manuever through the Gorge of King Xorbb or Highhold Pass. Trying to hunt giant spiders in West Commonlands while dodging griffons--now THAT was tense. This experience is profoundly absent in EQ2, and that's a shame. Access quests for high-level raid zones or heritage quests I support. Access quests for general game content I do not. The whole game is just too darn linear. I feel funneled like a rat in a maze.</font><font color="#ffcc33"> </font><font color="#ffcc33"> </font><font color="#ffcc33">I feel you, Never. Sorry to see you go.</font> <div></div>

[Ai]

<DIV> <P>I totally understand and agree with you. I quit about a month ago. The game just didn't live up to all the hype. And (I know I'll get flamed for this...) the characters really don't look all that great. I want long hair dammit! And better sexier stuff to wear like a fantasy game should have. And I do believe Thol nailed it when he said ..<FONT color=#ffff00>"</FONT><FONT color=#ffcc33>I feel funneled like a rat in a maze"<BR></FONT></P> <P>Obviously I am still paying for my account or I wouldn't be able to access this board. I'm still paying because I'm optimistic about the game getting better at some point and I like to check into the monk board every now and then to see what changes have been made. I really would like to come back some day and enjoy it. For now you can find me playing a game I won't mention. Although, they have no monks.. /sigh.</P> <P>Good luck Never and I agree with you about the D & D game. I have high hopes for it as well! (It was how I got started playing years ago....I'm old! Hehe) And Vanguard looks awesome, but I can't wait 2 years for a new game, I have to find something in the meantime. No doubt, you will find me there when it's released though. Cheers! :smileywink:</P></DIV><p>Message Edited by Aija on <span class=date_text>04-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:16 AM</span>

[ethan]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>"<font color="#ffcc33">1. <b><font color="#ff0000">It's too easy.</font></b> I could smear banana on my keyboard and throw a chimp in the chair, and he'd eventually pound out level 50. Corpse recoveries, level loss upon death, social agro among mobs, the inability to distinguish which mobs were agro-linked--all of these things added up to a more challenging gameplay experience in EQ1. In EQ2, death has little impact on my game, and there is no requirement for finesse play at all--the EQ1 holy trinity of tank/healer/CC has simply been replaced by the holy trinity of tank/healer/DPS. As a consequence, the game is simply about brutishly beating monsters down, and the penalty for death is too light (and they've made it even lighter since release by reducing XP debt).</font><font color="#ffcc33"></font><font color="#ffcc33"></font><font color="#ffcc33">2. <b><font color="#ff0000">Access quests. </font></b>In EQ1 a level 5 guy could (and often did) accidentally wander into a high-level zone. When I first zoned into West Commonlands and saw red, red giants and griffons I almost wet myself, and the run from Qeynos to Freeport was harrowing and exhilarating, especially when trying to manuever through the Gorge of King Xorbb or Highhold Pass. Trying to hunt giant spiders in West Commonlands while dodging griffons--now THAT was tense. This experience is profoundly absent in EQ2, and that's a shame. Access quests for high-level raid zones or heritage quests I support. Access quests for general game content I do not. The whole game is just too darn linear. I feel funneled like a rat in a maze.</font><font color="#ffcc33"></font><font color="#ffcc33"></font><font color="#ffcc33">I feel you, Never. Sorry to see you go.</font><div>Thol ThunderhandDwarf MonkGuk"I had to agree on this post.I was the 2nd Bruiser on Toxx to reach lvl 40 and I just had no desire to play my character anymore due to "Lack of Excitement".For those who still enjoy EQ2, I wish I can have that feeling. I still remembered when the day on EQ1, I got on the boat from BB to FP, I accidently got off to early to sister island but i got my [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] handed lol, also once i got to Commonland, Drybone toast me w/ his fire ball send me back to bind spot since i forgot to bind myself.  Remember your Trainer? c'mon everyone got to do this once, you went back for train and accidently press "A" , you should know the rest of the story.That was fun dayRIPGingka Toxxula</div><div></div><p>Message Edited by ethan76 on <span class="date_text">04-04-2005</span> <span class="time_text">07:27 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by ethan76 on <span class=date_text>04-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:28 PM</span>

[Wiou]

Want to be challenged? Go play a console game, or something different than a MMORPG. Dont say you dont like a MMORPG because its too easy. If you look around you, <b>every MMORPG is easy.</b> MMORPG's nature is to be 'easy' MMORPG's are games that reward you for investing time (and many other things, too) <div></div>

[NeVeRLi]

<div></div>EQ2 just needs time to mature and get the kinks ironed out. I will keep checking the forums and watching how it goes.  I just dont feel like paying to play this game right now the way it is. 6 months to a year or 2 from now who knows... I might give it a try again. Thanks for all the postive posts. After the 17th I wont beable to post anymore here but I'm active at RPG Codex and Vaults forums as well as many others. <div></div><p>Message Edited by NeVeRLiFt on <span class=date_text>04-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:56 AM</span>

[Nemi]

<blockquote><hr>Nemi, everything you say is important about MMOs is but to me they are all tertiarry. I think the most important primary aspect of an MMO world is freedom of choice and unfortunatly that is one of the bigest things lacking in EQ2. From lvl 40 to 50 I can basically count on 1 hand the soloable areas in game. The most important choices in this game are made for you in almost all respects. I never fealt so hand held in an mmo before. Sure I have the choice to solo 1 of a few soloable mobs or I can group and actually gain experience. This game is  like a 1 tunnel maze that all classes run through with little or no chance to get lost and the same piece of cheese waiting for everyone at the end of it. Do I still play, sure I do, but the lack luster increases dailly. Let's hope the expanssions fill the grand canyon size gaps in this game. <hr></blockquote>You also have to remember that if you are 40+ your at the top end of the levelling curve. The average level in this game is still around the level30-35 mark.Off the top of my head, from a Qeynos standpoint:Level 1 - 10:The CavesThe PeatbogForest ruinsThe Down BelowLevel 10-20:Vermins SyneCrypt of DecayAntonicaStormholdSome instanced zones in AntonicaLevel 20-30StormholdCondemned CatacombsCrypt of DecayThundering SteppesRuins of VarsoonLevel 30-40Ruins of VarsoonZekRivervaleD'Morte Burial ChambersLevel 40-50PermafrostFeerottCazic ThuleLavastormI don't see how you can call this being a '1 tunnel maze'. I don't believe I've played a game less than six months from release with so much content. Also, the upcomming patches are changing a lot for the solo player.The above does not even include the raid targets available from 20-50.Some people rush through the game and then have a cheek to complain about no content.

[Nemi]

<blockquote><hr>ForceUser wrote:<font color="#ffcc33">My top two criticisms of EQ2 are as follows.</font><font color="#ffcc33"> </font><font color="#ffcc33"> </font><font color="#ffcc33">1. <b><font color="#ff0000">It's too easy.</font></b> I could smear banana on my keyboard and throw a chimp in the chair, and he'd eventually pound out level 50. Corpse recoveries, level loss upon death, social agro among mobs, the inability to distinguish which mobs were agro-linked--all of these things added up to a more challenging gameplay experience in EQ1. In EQ2, death has little impact on my game, and there is no requirement for finesse play at all--the EQ1 holy trinity of tank/healer/CC has simply been replaced by the holy trinity of tank/healer/DPS. As a consequence, the game is simply about brutishly beating monsters down, and the penalty for death is too light (and they've made it even lighter since release by reducing XP debt).</font><font color="#ffcc33"> </font><font color="#ffcc33"> </font><font color="#ffcc33">2. <b><font color="#ff0000">Access quests. </font></b>In EQ1 a level 5 guy could (and often did) accidentally wander into a high-level zone. When I first zoned into West Commonlands and saw red, red giants and griffons I almost wet myself, and the run from Qeynos to Freeport was harrowing and exhilarating, especially when trying to manuever through the Gorge of King Xorbb or Highhold Pass. Trying to hunt giant spiders in West Commonlands while dodging griffons--now THAT was tense. This experience is profoundly absent in EQ2, and that's a shame. Access quests for high-level raid zones or heritage quests I support. Access quests for general game content I do not. The whole game is just too darn linear. I feel funneled like a rat in a maze.</font><font color="#ffcc33"> </font><font color="#ffcc33"> </font><font color="#ffcc33">I feel you, Never. Sorry to see you go.</font> <div></div><hr></blockquote>I suppose I just fit into the market they are aiming at.Just about everything you mentioned above is what I HATED about EQ1.The boat rides. OMG, FUN? You sat on a dock waiting for near 25min for a boat...lucky if you didnt LD and drown, LD and be sent back or yes, get to the other side and wait 30mins for some snooty mage to bind your [Removed for Content]. God forbid you actually died and had to do it all over again.Having ridiculously overpowered mobs in a n00b zone was madness and only existed due to the lack of real estate at launch. You get a group together, pulling giant kodiaks and wham! Hill giant wipes out party. Cue long naked run back to get corpse, rebuff, med and start making up the hour you just lost to a crappy death.You have a dose of 'rose tinted specs' there. During the evolution of EQ, they removed half of the features you mention above. Boats? Nah Translocates / Portals / PoK books.Horrid exp/time loss on deaths? Nah, resses begin at level 12Why is it more finesse to use Tank+Healer+CC and not Tank+Healer+DPS? Surely the latter is harder, CC makes encounters trivial, between that and FD pulling, its why they introduced the encounter system.You seem to like timesinks in boat rides, exp loss on deaths, level loss but you don't support a timesink on an access quest? Strange..

[SageMarrow]

<P>Nemi, you hit the nail on the head perfectly, they catored this game for players like you... thats the bottom line because you think this game is great and stand up for it and its principle at all cost.</P> <P>one thing i can gaurantee you is that everyone who shout outted neverlift and gave thier input on this post will probably dwindle out by May. What you see here isnt debates or counter arguements about the same old crap. Its a general concensus from players who expected more and got little or nothing but the same things they had for either 6 years or got somewhere else.</P> <P>Then there are the Gage's and Nemis who think this is the best thing since sliced bread. Hey, to each his own.</P> <P>But when someone said rat tunnel maze, they were alluding to the requirements for play, and the lack of diversification and individuality.</P> <P>If at level 45 you dont have the FBSS, you are considered [Removed for Content] off the top. You dont have anything that makes your class unique, not armor, not ability, not skills, not mounts, not even jobs. 24 classes are corraled into 4 jobs. 2 of which are required for grouping. I would rather be a primary puller than a guardian in light armor. Its just not right.</P> <P>Nothing about this is really that unique nemi, its the same stuff with prettier graphics. IMO, in a strictly PvE directed game, there should be 1 focus, the ENVIRONMENT. making things as fantasy based and fantastic as humanly possible.</P> <P>The content approach is just a filter for players. Nothing more nothing less. The zones with the quest and loot worth doing is where the players will be. Not very complicated, so i ask you, dont splice points of views here or check on peoples rants. We came here to wish a friend well, and that we hope to hear from him somewhere around MMO land. </P> <P>Not start a debate about it.</P> <P>Message Edited by SageMarrow on <SPAN class=date_text>04-05-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:30 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by SageMarrow on <span class=date_text>04-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:37 AM</span>

[Nemi]

I'm sorry Sage, but I don't think its EQ2 thats to blame its the players.Tell me what game out there offers more or better than EQ2?WoW? Simplistic one player game that moves you along the EXACT same path as everyone else by tagging quests along.EQ2 is 5 months old (well for UK). People rant at EQ2 and say EQ1 is better? Does anyone actually remember EQ1 at release?Armour was Patchwork > Banded > Bronze > Rubicite that was it. Oracle Robe for casters or the one from LGuk (Shiny Metallic Robe?). You had nearly every class fighting to get Rubicite. At one point you zoned into CT and you could walk around as a level 1 noob from the zone to the pyramid because everything was camped! People created Ogre n00bs to convert FS weapons to cash for players for Gawds sake!I think players have a touch of the heroin junkie in them, looking for that hit that will take them back to their very first rush.

[SageMarrow]

<P>thats exactly correct, but **I** personally didnt look at this game as a **new** game. It was Everquest 2 after all. Not some other game with a simialr principle.</P> <P>I didnt expect PvP, or anything like that. I expected the most vast and diverse fantasy based online game for years to come.</P> <P>i expected classes to be balanced by ability and style, not jobs. The archetype system is great, and if it were dont properly would have been revolutionary.  </P> <P>Might you ask what *right* wouldve been, it wouldve been basically split by traditional approach for defensive classes and the not so traditional approach for offensive classes. While the job function remained the same. For example:</P> <P>A fury and warden.</P> <P>Warden has a regen heal for 500 pts per tick out right. Where as a Fury has a 1000 damage nuke that grants a 100pt Regen per tick.  (kill speed vs consistency)</P> <P>A monk and a bruiser.</P> <P>Monk is invulnerable to riposte damage and can boost his personal defensive skill. A bruiser can dish out incredible riposte damage and can boost his personal offensive skill. (killspeed vs consistency)</P> <P>A guardian and berserker.</P> <P>A guardian is the traditional approach with high defense and mitigation. A berserker is the offensive non traditional approach with really high dps capability WHILE tanking, but not otherwise. so he can kill mobs at the same rate that a guardian can survive. (kill speed vs consistency)</P> <P>That TO ME, would be the way to achieve balance, uniqueness and diversity within the archetype system. But naturally SOE took the easy way out instead of spending the time needed to balance each and every skill against the other for the desired roles in game. So an offensive class would be able to do the same job just as well as a defensive class that withstood the damage for the sake of team work moreso.</P> <P>At which point it would have been cut and dry and everyone knows thier place in game as either a tank or otherwise and thier wouldnt have been so much overlap that SOE is curing with nerfs and such.</P> <P>Its things like this that negate the fact that the game is considered NEW nemi, you dont call spiderman the movie part 2 when it just starts from the beginning.</P> <P>Thats what SOE has done here. Started from scratch and didnt take anything with them that actually made the first game GREAT and just weeded out the problems and exploits.</P> <P>I love the encounter system, no more Kill stealing, i love the no kiting(almost) function of combat time, i love the influx of finances, could be twinked but doesnt need to be excessive either. i love attunement, it just makes sense!</P> <P>Those are the new things that make eq2 better than eq1, but its apparent that they did not study one lick of Eq1's evolution as a game and went the please all route in an attempt to make a quick buck and fix problems the quick way Along the way.</P> <P>but the game is still missing a few things that made eq1 great, Differnt mounts, class/look specific armor, ya know? </P> <P>Really simple stuff that made the game great as it faded into the sunset for me. I cant emphasize how badly i want my bruiser to have class specific armors as well as all the other classes in game. How badly i want to see classes able to customize thier looks at a certain level that embodies thier class.</P> <P>A fury with lightning bolt eyes...</P> <P>a monk with defined muscle tone...</P> <P>a paladin in shining armor....</P> <P>a shadowknight with a flowing ominous cape...</P> <DIV>While all these things seem cosmetic, tied in properly into the game they could make everquest trump games like city of heroes and WoW without a second thought. But soe seems to be going the simple and easy route of content over classes hoping that since they add a bunch of zones and spread the already thin population out even more, that its going to carry the game. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but outside of my personal wants and desires, fact still remains that when you call a game a sequel then it should be just that. A continuation of the old game in essence with the problems ironed out to perfection. And this game failed to deliver on that promise that is supposedly gauranteed with a sequel...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>especially one of this magnitude.</DIV><p>Message Edited by SageMarrow on <span class=date_text>04-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:42 AM</span>

[Nemi]

OK your thoughts on Archetype aside because we disagree =PI totally agree with armors and mounts being crap. But again, look at EQ1 when it was released. There was absolutely no diversity there. You had leather, mail, banded and bronze. Rubicite was mail but red in color.Even in WoW the graphical textures for armour and weapons are crap, hell the models are crap. The only saving grace is the colour palette and graphical style.EQ2 shipped with TONS of content at release but I do think they dropped the ball on the graphical diversity and colour palette. However, given that the game is 5months old I hold out lots of hope that with the forthcoming patches, that will be resolved.Was EQ2 rushed? Perhaps slightly, but it was fully functional and playable from release with working class and subclasses and tradeskills with over a 1000 quests. Thats a lot.I enjoy the game and I also have the belief that EQ2 will seemlessly fit with expansions to come. No more dreaded Velious / Shadows of Luclin / Planes of Power expansions that make every zone and item before it obsolete.

[Gaige]

<P>Sage: I said it before and I'll say it again; expectations suck.  When you have high expectations you are bound to be let down.  Just read your last post.  You don't like EQ2 because it isn't what *you* expected it to be, not because it isn't what they said it was.</P> <P>I've read many interviews with SoE staff (including Smed) where it was stated they wished they would've never called this game EQ2, because its so different.</P> <P>Its only a sequel in the sense of setting (Norrath) and some of the creatures lore.  The mechanics of the game are supposed to be (and for the most part are) totally different.</P> <P>Also, as I've said 100x, you can NOT please everyone.  No MMO out there is for everyone.  If they made the changes you want, I'd leave.  If they don't change it, you'll leave.</P> <P>The point is I *LOVE* this game.  Of the four MMOs I'm subscribed to right now, I play EQ2 99.9% of the time.  I love it.  When I played it in beta I knew it was going to be great.</P> <P>Obviously you do not agree, and neither does Never (for different reasons); and while that sucks its going to be true for any MMO.  The genre has a few inherent flaws, and balance is almost always crazy.</P> <P>I'm sure D&D online will be good, but some people won't enjoy it.  I'm sure Vanguard will be good, but a lot of people won't enjoy it either.  EQ1 was great, and tons of people didn't enjoy it.</P> <P>I just don't understand why people stay if they are so unhappy with how the game works.  /shrug</P>

[SageMarrow]

<DIV> <P>I just don't understand why people stay if they are so unhappy with how the game works.  /shrug</P> <P>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___</P> <P>A.) Hoping for the best....expecting the worst...still hoping for the best.</P> <P>B.) Waiting for City of Villains </P> <P>C.) Waiting for beta on DDO</P> <P>D.) WoW makes my eyes bleed</P> <P>E.) Did i say hoping for the best?</P> <P>F.) Moving colleges in august and need something to do in the mean time. After spring break Business has been slow lately.</P> <P>LOL, but yeah... thats about right </P> <P>EDIT: highly respectable and informational post gage. you should stick to that style = formal opinion without starting choas!!!. thanks</P></DIV><p>Message Edited by SageMarrow on <span class=date_text>04-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:07 AM</span>

[Ili]

<DIV>/shrug</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After playing EQ1 I just feel like honestly, the game is lacking. I wasn't excited about the game just because it was named 'EQ2'. I'm smart enough not to get the two confused. I was looking for that MMORPG magic.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm just wondering how many people who 'love this game' so much can look down the road and say they're in it for the long haul? I was a total fangirl at one point, arguing to everyone about how great the game was, how awesome the classes are, how much diversity there was, ect, and then I realzed that it really. Isn't. True. At. All.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People were arguing content because of the sheer amount of zones? Heh. Right. See, Content to me is something that you have access to right away, and don't have to kill yourself to finish. I've never been to Cauldron Hollow. In fact, I still have the access quest in my journal right now. Why? Because I'm in a very small guild who never does anything together, and no pickup groups were ever doing the quest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Someone mentioned something about armor in EQ. That I found rather funny... Yeah, there was a very limited selection of armor for awhile in EQ. I didn't start playing that until about five months after launch. But there was a set of quested armor (And holy *cow* it was hard to quest that stuff for each class), in addition to the plane gear at 50. What do we have now that's class defining? ...Nothing. Nothing at all. Bruisers and Monks still look like [Removed for Content] Furies/Wardens. I even see scouts wearing Enchanted Thicket now, so I can't even be unique in *that* right.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just like someone else mentioned, I'm waiting. EQ2 is a young game. Very young. I enjoy most quests, I enjoy most zones, just now, the dislikes of the game are outweighing the idea of me leveling another nine times. I do seriously hope things change though. I was such a believer in this game, I overhauled my computer and bought a killer monitor for it. And no. I didn't do it because it was named 'EQ2', either.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Ilina</DIV> <DIV>The Cosmetic Monkie!</DIV>

[Azr]

<P>First off, at level 50 the game is getting old exponentially faster then it was prior to lvl 50. I can't imagine why anyone would try to reinvent the wheel but oh well, SoE has. People ask what MMO offers more and I have to say when it comes to class diversity I can think of no MMO in history that has offered as little in this area as EQ2. The game has 4 classes period and if you think defferently then grats SoE on conning you into thinking so. In this game you are either DPS, tank, healer or utility class. And while chanters and bards could have been truly needed and diverse classes, they simply are not. </P> <P>Where are the class specific quests? At lvl 50 every class pretty much looks and acts exactly like everyone else of the same class. The game need AA points or something to allow our characters to grow some minute level of originality. We need class specific quests. We need less static zones. Kunark - Velios EQ was so uncomparably superior to where EQ2 is now. And comparing this game now to where EQ1 was when it came out is inane. They had 6 years to perfect that game and that knowledge should have yielded a game which at it's worst should have been better then EQ1 at its best. I am telling you as an end game character and as loyal a fan as DoE could have, this game is falling more and more short by the day and finding reasons to stay are getting more and more dificult. I have hopes that the expanssion will correct the short falls.</P>

[SageMarrow]

<DIV> <FONT color=#cc0000 size=5>And comparing this game now to where EQ1 was when it came out is insane. They had 6 years to perfect that game and that knowledge should have yielded a game which at it's worst should have been better then EQ1 at its best.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000 size=5></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33 size=3>^^^^ cant believe i didnt get to that statement first.... my point exactly</FONT></DIV>

[kerra]

You had some good things to share NeverLift take care and best of luck in all you do. <p>Message Edited by kerra on <span class=date_text>04-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:41 AM</span>

[bonesbro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SageMarrow wrote:<BR> <P>Might you ask what *right* wouldve been, it wouldve been basically split by traditional approach for defensive classes and the not so traditional approach for offensive classes. While the job function remained the same. For example:</P> <P>A fury and warden.</P> <P>Warden has a regen heal for 500 pts per tick out right. Where as a Fury has a 1000 damage nuke that grants a 100pt Regen per tick.  (kill speed vs consistency)</P> <P>A monk and a bruiser.</P> <P>Monk is invulnerable to riposte damage and can boost his personal defensive skill. A bruiser can dish out incredible riposte damage and can boost his personal offensive skill. (killspeed vs consistency)</P> <P>A guardian and berserker.</P> <P>A guardian is the traditional approach with high defense and mitigation. A berserker is the offensive non traditional approach with really high dps capability WHILE tanking, but not otherwise. so he can kill mobs at the same rate that a guardian can survive. (kill speed vs consistency)</P> <P>That TO ME, would be the way to achieve balance, uniqueness and diversity within the archetype system. But naturally SOE took the easy way out instead of spending the time needed to balance each and every skill against the other for the desired roles in game. So an offensive class would be able to do the same job just as well as a defensive class that withstood the damage for the sake of team work moreso.</P> <P>Message Edited by SageMarrow on <SPAN class=date_text>04-05-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:42 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Here's the problem with that form of balance: The warden heals five times better than the fury, and that thousand damage is insignificant compared to group damage output.  So the warden always gets the healer slot.  The berserker can kill faster than the guardian, but the berserker will never get the tank job.  Why?  His extra damage output is irrelevant when factored in with the rest of the group's damage output.  If he tanks 25% worse than a guardian, then to have the same damage taken over a while fight he'll have to enough damage that it raises the DPS of the GROUP by 25% - so he's doing double the guardian's damage.  But that makes a berserker massively better in solo/duo.  It seems like a good concept but the balance is missing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I realize I'm quibbling over concepts you invented just to frame your expectations, but if you think that balance is that easy you really need to think about it some more.  I think things are pretty [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] balanced right now for everything other than epic fights, and I don't have the experience doing epic mobs to comment intelligently on that.</DIV>

[Nemi]

<blockquote><hr>SageMarrow wrote:<DIV> <FONT color=#cc0000 size=5>And comparing this game now to where EQ1 was when it came out is insane. They had 6 years to perfect that game and that knowledge should have yielded a game which at it's worst should have been better then EQ1 at its best.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000 size=5></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33 size=3>^^^^ cant believe i didnt get to that statement first.... my point exactly</FONT></DIV><hr></blockquote>Ah so your problem is that EQ2 isn't perfect, because 6 years have passed?Excuse me, point me to a MMORPG that is?And for the person that stated that no MMORPG offered less that EQ2. Um, hello? WoW? Cookie cutter anyone? Fact is, you can't knock EQ2 because there isnt a game on the market that can beat it. You can whine and moan that the game isn't perfect and that you *expected* more, but bottom line is: EQ2 is not EQ1 and is not the sequel to EQ1. I'm sorry you all thought that when you bought the game.And please, if the worst you can put against it is that there isnt variety in the armour textures then I think SoE have done very well.

[Azr]

Nemi, I never said perfect. I don't expect perfection. This game just isn't really that good is the problem. And a game as bad as SWG had uncomparably more diversity out of the box. And this isn't about whining, it is about having standards. If you make something to replace something else, you improve on it or mimic it with better graphics. That's not only good business sense, it's common sense. You don't start over. SoE set a standard with EQ1. There new product while I agree has some strong points, does not meet that standard. If you are content with this game, I am not only happy for you, I envy you in some respects. I have been taught by SoE in particular to expect more. More then four classes. More then the same look. More then having to group in order to level at a resonable pace. Now I spend most of my time trying to acclimate to less.

[Gaige]

<P>SWG has better character customization and no content.  No raids, no reason to group, amazingly unbalanced PvP and the biggest timesink and grind of any game, Jedi Knight.  Besides, SWG is the *KING* of Flavor of the Month classes/templates.  OMG combat medic, omg doctor/*insert class here*, omg creature handler, omg jedi.  Its always something.  Oh yeah, OMG RIFLEMAN!</P> <P>So I'll glady take this trade off.</P> <P>Besides, this isn't ment to replace EQ1, its ment for the people who didn't like EQ1.</P> <P>So that SoE can capture both the hardcore and the casual audience.</P> <p>Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on <span class=date_text>04-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:18 PM</span>

[SageMarrow]

<P>well guys its not so much of a debate as i said before...</P> <P>its moreso just an agreement that hey, we can all say:</P> <P>Sage says, " Then for that matter why did they call it EQ2???"</P> <P>Gage says, " Yeah that was pretty dumb of them, i feel your pain bro"</P> <P>__________________________________________________ _______- thats it.. simple discussion for the most part.</P>

[SageMarrow]

<P>but as for the class balancing, im just saying that there should have been more time spent in finding roles for each class instead of each archetype to keep things simple for themselves.</P> <P>As well as ways to balance them within the archetype system without making them the same with different spell names which seems to be the end result at the four extremes of this situation.</P> <P>Those being pure tanks - pure healers - pure mages - pure scouts.</P> <P>Its apparent that not much time was spent in class balancing BEFORE release. And in a situation where you have 24 classes that is everything next to a requirement. The scheme we have now, basically makes 4 classes that cant do their job in all situations with 2 being easily solved, give a bard more</P> <P>dps = give a enchanter more dps = give a conjurer a higher level pet... viola, balanced for thier roles.</P> <DIV>But wardens are a bit intangible at present, as well as brawlers being balanced next to mitigation. Two gaps that dont seem to be closable fully...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But to basically sum up the approach i expected with the archetype system..... From a FAQ of an upcoming MMO that i will leave nameless, find it on your own. :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000><U>In the context of the game, what is a class and a role?</U></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>Classes will be based on traditional High Fantasy classes that we've all seen in various MMOGs, MUDs, paper & pencil games, and novels.<BR><BR>They are also a way to group like skills and abilities.<BR><BR>Roles are more high level and deal with our approach to making sure that each class has a role to play in casual, group, and raid situations. In the past, issues dealing with hybrids vs. specialists, especially in the elder game, have been problematic. Our approach with <I><STRIKE><FONT color=#000000>Vanguard</FONT></STRIKE></I> will be to better define core roles and to make sure we have different, interesting classes, but that they'll be important in most all scenarios, regardless of level, setting, or casual/group/raid areas.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cc0000><U>Will there be traditional High Fantasy classes?</U></FONT></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>Absolutely. We are also committed to expanding class selection to include several new and exciting character types.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#cc0000><U>7.4.1 How will you deal with the hybrid vs. specialist issues?</U></FONT></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>By defining core roles that each class needs to fit into so we don't run into the hybrid/specialist problems we've seen in other games.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#cc0000><U>7.4.2 Will there be multi-classing?</U></FONT></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>Not in the traditional sense. More on this later.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#cc0000><U>7.4.3 Will one class be able to solo better than another?</U></FONT></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>Maybe, but it will be situational. Again, going back to the system of roles, each class needs to serve a purpose in casual, group, and raid scenarios.</FONT></P> <P>So as you can see, this was the approach that i assumed was being taken, one of roles and classes that would be balanced around those roles and such instead of the scout preist healer tank equation that tends to get old quickly...</P> <P>but hey - thats just me...</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><p>Message Edited by SageMarrow on <span class=date_text>04-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:24 PM</span>

[Ai]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Azrom wrote:<BR> Nemi, I never said perfect. I don't expect perfection. This game just isn't really that good is the problem. And a game as bad as SWG had uncomparably more diversity out of the box. And this isn't about whining, it is about having standards. If you make something to replace something else, you improve on it or mimic it with better graphics. That's not only good business sense, it's common sense. You don't start over. SoE set a standard with EQ1. There new product while I agree has some strong points, does not meet that standard. If you are content with this game, I am not only happy for you, I envy you in some respects. I have been taught by SoE in particular to expect more. More then four classes. More then the same look. More then having to group in order to level at a resonable pace. Now I spend most of my time trying to acclimate to less.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>QFE :smileysad: </P> <P>....And I too, envy the people that are enjoying this game. I wish I could.</P>

[SageMarrow]

<P>everyone here posting about their issues with the game need to read this post in its entirety, i did at least. </P> <P>Now IMO, that is the route to go when giving an overview of your overall goals for a game, truthful, open, and honest with no gimmicks involved. Awesome FAQ to me..</P> <P> </P> <P><A href="http://www.vanguardsoh.com/faq.php?eid=18&faqid=19&ptext=General+MMOG+%28Massively+Multiplayer+Online +Game%29+Philosophy+%28Original+Sigil+Games+FAQ%29" target=_blank>http://www.vanguardsoh.com/faq.php?eid=18&faqid=19&ptext=General+MMOG+%28Massively+Multiplayer+Online +Game%29+Philosophy+%28Original+Sigil+Games+FAQ%29</A></P>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SageMarrow wrote:<BR> <P>everyone here posting about their issues with the game need to read this post in its entirety, i did at least.</P> <P>Now IMO, that is the route to go when giving an overview of your overall goals for a game, truthful, open, and honest with no gimmicks involved. Awesome FAQ to me..</P> <P> </P> <P><A href="http://www.vanguardsoh.com/faq.php?eid=18&faqid=19&ptext=General+MMOG+%28Massively+Multiplayer+Online +Game%29+Philosophy+%28Original+Sigil+Games+FAQ%29" target=_blank>http://www.vanguardsoh.com/faq.php?eid=18&faqid=19&ptext=General+MMOG+%28Massively+Multiplayer+Online +Game%29+Philosophy+%28Original+Sigil+Games+FAQ%29</A><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I for one think Vanguard will be a huge disappointment.</P> <P>The expectations by EQ1 players is UNREAL.</P> <P>There is no way anything they do will be good enough.</P> <P>So many people want to play that game because its what is left over of Verant and they remember fondly how they first felt when they played EQ1.</P> <P>I'll probably play it, but man, I can only imagine how disappointed people will be.<BR></P>

[Velor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SageMarrow wrote:<BR> <P>everyone here posting about their issues with the game need to read this post in its entirety, i did at least. </P> <P>Now IMO, that is the route to go when giving an overview of your overall goals for a game, truthful, open, and honest with no gimmicks involved. Awesome FAQ to me..</P> <P> </P> <P><A href="http://www.vanguardsoh.com/faq.php?eid=18&faqid=19&ptext=General+MMOG+%28Massively+Multiplayer+Online +Game%29+Philosophy+%28Original+Sigil+Games+FAQ%29" target=_blank>http://www.vanguardsoh.com/faq.php?eid=18&faqid=19&ptext=General+MMOG+%28Massively+Multiplayer+Online +Game%29+Philosophy+%28Original+Sigil+Games+FAQ%29</A></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yeah, welcome to yesterday.</P> <P>Even with all of the high hopes that many have for Vanguard, myself included, there is absolutely no gaurantee that they will hit the mark that they intend to hit within the first 6 months of their release. Even with a lengthy beta and testing, there can and probably will still be many balancing issues to be resolved. That's the nature of these games and there's no getting around it.  </P> <P>You really need to realize something when it comes to EQ2 and MMOs in general: you can always continue to define and specialize anything in the game. You can't, however, usually go in reverse. MMOs are never-ending and always demand balancing, which is never ultimately attained. At least not when there are planned expansions. But that's the way Sony chose to go with EQ2. Sigil is taking a different approach with theirs. Sony has a basic, more generic foundation to start with and will start defining from there. They have to. How else can you incorporate new design and content for the next 150 levels and 2+ years. But just because they did this does not mean it's not fun for people. It's just different strokes for different folks.</P> <P>I'm betting on Vanguard being great not because of what I read in their FAQ. That's good reading but at this point in time, that's all it is. No, the primary reason why I think it'll be great is because of the people behind that company. They've proven themselves in the industry and I like what their previous products did to satisfy my need for enjoyment. The rest is all marketing fluff right now until it's released.</P>

[SageMarrow]

<P>well im in business personally, so i dont believe anything that comes out of the mouth of anything financially driven, its all jargon.</P> <P>i wasnt commenting on how great the game will be. Im commenting on how straight forward and openly the devs answered the questions and foresee the potholes that need to be avoided when creating an MMO.</P> <P> Thats what struck me as openly well done as far as the FAQ was done. There was very little BS, very little marketing speak. And the devs for the most part spoke openly and freely about what thier expectations were and the reality of the genre to date, including games such as everquest and its failings and everything on down the line even as deep as graphics and what could and could not be done within that spectrum.</P> <P>As far as balancing is concerned, the devs have made it clear that the classes is their first priority, beta will be longer, and that they are not concerned with graphics engines and such. They used to UNREAL engine and twinked it so that it could benefit an MMO, so they could focus on the game. So personally, i think they will be MUCH closer to balance than any other game to date. Simply because the developers are taking the foundation that was EQ1 and used it as thier base.</P> <P>As opposed to taking a chance on a foundation that may or may not work and bomb...</P> <P>Throughout the post and in several articles ive read the developers constantly use the term *stick to what works* that much is admirable from a business minded POV. Its a failsafe above all else.</P> <P>But like i said, it was about the content and direction of the FAQ, not the game = in that respect i agree, the proof will only be in the pudding...</P>

[Nemi]

Its amazing how before a game is release everyone thinks:'Oh the developers are wonderful, they listed to the player base and seem to really understand what we want' then 2 months after release 'These Devs suck, don't listen to anything we want!'My God, it's ALL MARKETING HYPE! Dev posts before a game is just another aspect of it, to curry favour with gamers and build hype and expectation for the game. EVERY MMORPG to date has done it.Asheron's CallShadowbaneDAOCSWGWoWAOEach and everyone have had issues during Beta and release. Heck, I don't mind you don't like EQ2, it's your prerogative, however I think you are being naive. All MMORPGS have issues and until the game is out, its all hype.

[SomeDudeCRO]

Take care man. I'm taking a break myself, doing RL things and playing a bit of Rome Total War with my gaming time  <span>:smileyhappy:</span> <div></div>

[SageMarrow]

<P>Nemi, do you read past the first sentence of anyones post???</P> <P>i already said that...</P> <P> </P> <P>but anyhow, if you personally take the time to read it you can better understand what i said, and for that matter read my post again too cause you flubbed that all up.</P> <P>He didnt spend hours talking about how his game wil be great, he spent time speaking in a factual way about the genre AS A WHOLE, its failings, and some things that he felt personally that he KNOWS the average player would disagree with.</P> <P>As I said, i dont care who makes the game, or who the devs are, do you think that i had any [Removed for Content] clue as to who scott hartsman was?? NOPE, dont care, dont know him, still dont care. I play games, not games made by certain developers, or games by certain companies. Im not the type that says "ooh squaresoft made this, it must be great!!!* heck even they screw up!!!</P> <P>So as i said, i was entrigued by the way he spoke out against alot the things presently going on in MMO land, both candidly and factually, and without remorse. Even the way he spoke upon his own game, he said bluntly that he knew some players wouldnt like all of his ideas and direction for the game, but hey oh well, theres still no need to panick. </P> <P>So take a moment and read it for yourself.</P>

[Plexar_Vari]

<DIV>A lot of people harp on the game content at higher levels, and that there is no one 35+ ect ect, but if you remember the way EQ1 was.  It is nearly the exact same.  The first year a lot of people spent just looking to find the right character fit for themselves.  I would imagine you still see a lot of that today.  People who will level a character up pretty far, yet not far enough to be considered "high level" going back and doing it again with another class because they just wanted to try something else, or they had the grass is greener syndrome.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know I've been playing maybe a month now, and I have done it.  So I am sure that there are many others like me whomhave started over so many times that we know the Isle of Refuge better than we know our starting apartment.</DIV>

[SageMarrow]

<P>yepp. thats what i see, people having 6 different alts, antonica is ALWAYS flooded. It seems like players that focus on one character constantly grind it out and rush to level 50 and the other half is playing 6 different alts to level 20....</P> <P>There are few people like myself who isnt exactly rushing, but doesnt desire to play an alt either....</P> <P>i think thats the problem with zone populations...</P>

[Nemi]

I've read the Vanguard FAQ Sage and tbh the game just seems to be focused to hard-core powergamers. Best of luck to them, there are plenty of people out there that have the time and want to spend 12+ hrs a day on a game and I'm sure they'll be successful in that.That's not EQ2 and was never EQ2's desire tho and you wrong EQ2 by condemning it for not including hard-core mode in its design.

[SageMarrow]

<P>well nemi - personally ive taken my back seat and started eating my pop corn, because the subclasses are starting to go thier own direction now... bruisers got a defense decrease and an offense increase...</P> <P>So that shoots the brawlers will be balanced as tanks argument to heck.. so i dont know... im just gonna sit back and watch the show... im happy with my class, hardcore or no, as long as i know they are not going to go the route of the square classes im perfectly fine and im also done debating about it...</P> <P>I can get back to playing a game that i enjoy now... =).</P>

[Gaige]

What defense decrease and offense increase are you talking about?

[GangsterFi]

I pretty much quit the game too, infact I am trying to find out if anyone wants to take over my account.  I was the 2nd monk to hit 50 on my server and that was only because during the holidays I went out with my old buddies and partied instead of playing EQ2 all the time.  This game looked very promising to me.  Had an archtype system that was not suppose to make classes obsolete, or make one class preferred over another.  Was not suppose to be a huge time sink and allowed for questers, adventurers and crafters all to level up different ways. Some of it held true, but for the most part this game is just one huge EQ 1 clone.  Nothing is really original about this game, and it requires huge time sinks just like EQ 1.  When I had to camp agony for the heritage quest drop for the screaming mace, which is an item I wouldnt even freaking use on my monk, with a guildmate I wanted to gouge my eyes out.  I camped that *$%#&!ing spawn for 8 hours or so to get it to spawn.  How is that fun?  Standing in one place over and over to camp one stupid creature?  Truth is, real life is just way more fun for me.  EQ2 is just plain out boring.  I am pretty much done and I am sure my guild has probably removed me from their roster, which is funny because I was the leader and one of the founders.  Thats how it goes though.  The game does not reward player skill really in any way, it rewards players that put in the time.  I have a social life, I train in several martial arts, which have suffered from EQ 2.  I gained about 10 lbs from playing EQ 2.  Now that I haven't played in two months or so I am getting back in shape and training regularly.  Going outside regularly.  You can't do that in EQ line of games, you must put in your daily hours of play time otherwise you will fall behind. Yeah I spent hours on end harvesting rares for armor and weapons.  Only to find out that they are really not that much better than dropped items and master chest items pwn them.  So those 40+ hours I spent getting 3 rare pelts was pretty much useless, thanks SOE.  I appreciated that a lot. My monk has all T5 armor/weapons, done a tremendous amount of heritage quests, has 2 master chest items, is probably one of the best monks on the kithicor server, but yet the game is completely boring to me.  I don't want to have to put in my 800 billion hours (thats a hyperbole btw <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) per a day to be able to enjoy all the content of the game. The monks don't even really look like martial artists either, we look like some S&M bondage guy that learned a few kick boxing moves.  I mean if the game is gonna look pretty, it should look pretty.  SOE devs need to take a peek at bioware's jade empire for some kung fu animations and get a clue of what maritial arts monks look like. Now, if the game is for you then thats cool, some people obviously like it.  To each their own.  I'd rather be hanging out with women and having a good time over being stuck behind a keyboard for hours on end to acoomplish tasks in a video game you can't beat. <div></div>

[SageMarrow]

<P>That sucks gangster - hate to see you go bro...kinda missed ya around the boards anyway!!</P> <P>well keep the fountain flowing with the ladies, and good luck with all that you do brother...</P>

[Ili]

<DIV>Yeah. That really sucks that you're done, Gangster. I always enjoyed reading your posts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a side note, Jade Empire looks effing amazing, and I can't stand Xbox, but I might pick one up just for that game. Holy cow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hopefully, they don't delete characters. I think the game will get better soon, I really do. Hopefully I'm not just wishing upon a star.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Ilina</DIV> <DIV>The Cosmetic Monk!</DIV>

[GangsterFi]

Yeah from what I have been reading lots of people are quitting WoW and EQ2 and waiting for the next game to come out.  EQ2 has tons of issues and I don't see SOE fixing it anytime soon, plus they do not reward player skill, they just reward player time sinks which in my mind is lame. DDO (D&D online) looks really promising.  Its more adventure action based, but at the same time its an MMO.  Like when you fire ranged weapons you can into first person mode, and its like a first person shooter.  Meaning you have to aim your shots manually, so it requires player skill.  You don't just click buttons.  Also, you physically dodge attacks by moving your toon out of the way.  Meaning that a monk could tumble and do barrel rolls and such to dodge attacks and its up to you to control it.  Meaning if you suck at controlling your character's movements its your own fault.  Its not totally based off some over complicated and unbalanced mitigation/avoidance system that EQ 2 has.  Its also not a huge time sink, so I can log on for a few hours whenever I want and play it, and not be penalized.  I also won't have to click stupid harvesting nodes for hours on end to get a componet for an item. Like I said this game is just not for me, I thought it was, I thought it was going to live to its hype, but it doesn't.  The archetype system is totally flawed, and all the statements made about how it was designed for those who quit EQ 1 is false.  I am quitting this game for the same exact reasons I quit EQ 1. <div></div>

[SageMarrow]

yeah, there will be no **REQUIRED** classes for grouping in DDO. the dungeons will be built that way instead of x mob hits for 1000hp a hit.. better bring a healer and a tank....

[Ger]

<DIV> <DIV>I've only played my monk like 2 days in the past 3 weeks. I don't know, this game isn't bad, but it doesn't have the charm that EQ1 had for me...and I quit EQ1 after a playing only 2 years or so. To me, the game seems same ole same ole. You level up, but you just get a higher version of the same skill. Equip is just same crap with better stats. Classes are too similar to me, there doesn't seem to be certain defined roles as there were in EQ1. Most of the zones are boring. I can't really say I enjoy any of them except for a few. Last few weeks I was playing, it felt too much like work than fun, which is why I quit EQ1. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*shrug* I may log on in a few days and play again or I may quit. EQ2 is fun, but just lacking in a few things for me right now. Maybe it'll get better.</DIV></DIV>

[perculat]

<P>I left too....   about 2 weeks ago for WoW...   I have always loved PvP,  and WoW is so well balanced in that aspect its crazy.</P> <P> </P> <P>But the biggest reason I dont regret leaving is that I can actually log in for an hour and solo.  Gameplay is very fast,  sometimes I feel like I'm playing gauntlet or something.  </P> <P> </P> <P>EQ1 is the king of group based combat,  WoW is the king of PvP...  EQ2 is still trying to find its bearings...  if they would have left the game alone int he beginning I would have been happy....  but all of the nerfs and changes to items have just made the world feel not very real...  MMO's should be persistent worlds,  not a big linear quest.</P>

[Amanojak]

<P>WoW is the king of PvP?</P> <P>You should check out Shadowbane.</P>

[Grimme]

<P>The complaint posts on this thread have described issues generic to mmorpg's, not anything specifically to do with this game (though they present it as though only this game has them). EQ2 is a good game. Some people will like it, and some won't. Some people will play it first before they realize they don't like it. You can say this about every game ever made, and every game that is going to be made. </P> <P>But if you didn't like a big chunk of it, you wouldn't have posted here about it. It isn't that it completely fails as you claim, it is that you want it to be more than it is. And it is very likely that in every mmorpg you play you will end up feeling this way because they all deliver the same type of experience. They are all mmorpgs. The game is what it is, you either like it or you don't. Maybe you will find a mmorpg you like; or you may never find one.</P> <P>Someone stated they couldn't update the game because it was so generic that people whine about any change. Actually, you will find people in mmorpg forums will whine about any change regardless of the game style. If you change it one way, one group whines. If you change it the other direction, the people who disagree with the first group whine. Some people whine when you give them free stuff. This is in every mmorpg ever made. This is why 99% of forum posts are just noise. It has nothing to do with the game, it has to do with the large number of visions differrent groups of people have for the game. In other words, it is entirely normal and expected.</P> <P>Shadowbane would have been the king of pvp if the servers didnt crash at ever major siege (back when people still played it). Ww2online was better, obviously not fantasy or rpg, but some serious pvp and stable. Mmorpg pvp stinks in general, and it probably always will, because you cannot really balance swords vs spells, and you cannot balance a large number of diverse classes without diluting the whole thing. Pvp is great, I just wouldn't bother doing it in an mmorpg at this point.</P>

[SageMarrow]

<P>Grimme  </P> <P>its apparent that you didnt read past the first few post - let me break it down for you... the game is boring at level 40+, either that or you are not even level 20 yet.</P> <P>Tradeskilling is NOT for everyone - and <U><STRONG>very few</STRONG> </U>do it for the love of tradeskilling - its about the cash - so therefore couldve been left out.</P> <P>Races dont have any effect in this game = they are basically a skin </P> <P>Classes are just fluff around a job = 4 classes 1 race</P> <P>No mounts but expensive horses</P> <P>No sex/race/class specific armor</P> <P>Now according to you every MMO goes through these things - but thats not true. When you break down  the game - you come to the conclusion that SOE chose content/graphics over classes and tradeskilling as thier primary focuses. While not taking into account ANYTHING from EQ1. </P> <P>That is the most backwards strategy that i have ever seen in terms of an MMO. Keep in mind that players seek entertainment in order to escape reality. And in terms of an RPG game - its to customize a character so that they can embody that character in a fantasy environment. A players class and character are thier primary focus, not killing a bunch of static mobs until the end of time in *new* environments...</P> <P>understand what this thread was about before you assume its about a bunch of EQ2 haters. Its not and it was never meant to be - it was about wishing a player well that we knew and respected alongside of making our own realizations about what the game was lacking and how it didnt meet all the hype surrounding it at its core. </P>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SageMarrow wrote:<BR> <P>Tradeskilling is NOT for everyone - and <U><STRONG>very few</STRONG> </U>do it for the love of tradeskilling - its about the cash - so therefore couldve been left out.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Not true at all.  I know tons of people that play just to craft and have numerous high lvl crafters.</P> <P>I crafted almost the entire first year I played SWG (I made doctor buffs) until I got my jedi and started grinding.<BR></P>

[SageMarrow]

<P>well i was purely speaking upon the recent rash of post about the issues regarding being under cut with prices all of a sudden. And the inability of crafters to make money - and the fact that they were suddenly upset about it.</P> <P>In reality - SOE enjoys the fact that we are all running around broke on both ends of the spectrum, it works out perfectly, not in a negative way - but seriously - i dont mind it as much either.</P>

[GangsterFi]

Grim wrote: <i><b> <p>The complaint posts on this thread have described issues generic to mmorpg's, not anything specifically to do with this game (though they present it as though only this game has them). EQ2 is a good game. Some people will like it, and some won't. Some people will play it first before they realize they don't like it. You can say this about every game ever made, and every game that is going to be made. </p> <p>But if you didn't like a big chunk of it, you wouldn't have posted here about it. It isn't that it completely fails as you claim, it is that you want it to be more than it is. And it is very likely that in every mmorpg you play you will end up feeling this way because they all deliver the same type of experience. They are all mmorpgs. The game is what it is, you either like it or you don't. Maybe you will find a mmorpg you like; or you may never find one.</p> <p>Someone stated they couldn't update the game because it was so generic that people whine about any change. Actually, you will find people in mmorpg forums will whine about any change regardless of the game style. If you change it one way, one group whines. If you change it the other direction, the people who disagree with the first group whine. Some people whine when you give them free stuff. This is in every mmorpg ever made. This is why 99% of forum posts are just noise. It has nothing to do with the game, it has to do with the large number of visions differrent groups of people have for the game. In other words, it is entirely normal and expected.</p> <p>Shadowbane would have been the king of pvp if the servers didnt crash at ever major siege (back when people still played it). Ww2online was better, obviously not fantasy or rpg, but some serious pvp and stable. Mmorpg pvp stinks in general, and it probably always will, because you cannot really balance swords vs spells, and you cannot balance a large number of diverse classes without diluting the whole thing. Pvp is great, I just wouldn't bother doing it in an mmorpg at this point.</i></b> </p> <p>Well considering this game was suppose to attract all those players who played eq1 for a few years and then quit.  I quit during SOV in EQ1, which IMO was its peak.  After that expansion the game went to complete crap, of course IMHO. </p> <p>EQ 1 was the following: <ul>A huge time sink A camp fest A grind fest No content driven quests oboslete classes, some classes were just plain not needed (see my previous posts about AOE tactics and EQ 1) Nothing felt epic Recycled content</ul> </p> <p>What EQ 2 was suppose to be, according to its hype and beta msg boards and what the devs told us: <ul>Not a huge time sink, you get rewarded better for your time (debateable, but its still a huge time sink) Content driven (sure it is, but its highly recycled) No obsolete classes via archetype balance (this will probably never ahppen) Require more game play skill (nope its just the same as hitting auto attack and mashing a few buttons, only you have more buttons to mash now) </ul> </p> <p>There are other MMOs on the way out that will beat out EQ2, and it currently only has about 9% of the MMO player popluation playing it, WoW beating out EQ 2 by have about 11.5% (read it in a gaming mag last month).  Finalfantasy actually has the most players playing it over any MMO. </p> <p>What DDO (D&D online) has to offer is an MMO game with a more action adventure sense to it.  Putting archery in first person, whichs means you can;t just back off a click a button, you gotta be a good shot.  Same goes for LOS spells.  Melee charcters can do tumbling and such which means you control avoidance, its not some crappy over complicated mitigation/avoidance system.  Meaning that there are NO required classes, you just have to be good at your class.  Which I find very interesting.  I haven't played the matrix online yet, but I hear you can always respec your character for whatever you want.  Assuming thats from just downloading the data to your brain like they do in the movie.  This is cool because it offers dynamic character game play with out grinding all that exp gain on an alt character. </p> <p>The bottom line is EQ 2 in the end game is boring, and it only requires 2 classes to do any content so far, guardians and clerics.  The rest of the classes are not needed, but can fill in spots, and occasionally be more effecient.  EQ2 IMO will not last long, they will dwindle and dwindle with the new MMO's coming out.  They have DDO, warhammer online, Vanguard, and NWN2 coming out within the next year.  These games are going in new directions, and will attact a lot of gamers like myself who left MMO/time sinks.  So, your general statement of how all MMOs are like this and that you should just except it as part of an MMO is false.  People have already spoken and left this game left and right.  Infact, all of my real life friends how now quit this game, I was pretty much one of the last.  Some of them went to WoW, others are playing CS source. </p> <p>Personally, I won't play a game that rewards someone for spending 8+ hours a day playing over player skill.  I like to have a social life, this game doesn't reward people for player skill, they reward them for spending tons of time on the computer.  So, you are right this game really is not for me. </p> <div></div>

[Nemi]

I'm really looking forward to DDO, something like a cross between CS:S and Morrowind. My biggest worry is that it's Turbine that's coding it and we all know what pile of [Removed for Content] they created. <div></div>

[SageMarrow]

<P>lol, nemi what game would that be?</P> <P>(it is funny that the game im waiting on is being made by some of the worst games ever made...)</P> <P>Atari</P> <P>Turbine</P> <P>Only one with any credibility would have to be Wizards of the Coast...but they dont make video games...</P> <p>Message Edited by SageMarrow on <span class=date_text>04-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:11 PM</span>

[kerra]

<P><SPAN>You know guys I am 20% from 50 I am also a level 49 Jeweler 20% from 50 and I still enjoy the game but, I took my time I did not rush to get to 50 and I did not miss out on lots of content. I think that Gangster and many others like him just for the sake of being the second monk on his sever to hit 50 never really took the time enjoy the game. Gangster, I respect you not for being the second monk to hit 50 but because your posts were helpful, insightful and well written. The fact that you were the second monk to hit 50 on your server means crap, IMO, you are you own worst enemy and you burnt your self out and never stopped to smell the roses. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>I know there are problems and balance issues heck I even said it before <EM><SPAN>"the only thing balanced about this game is that you can pick any race and be able to perform well at any profession"</SPAN></EM> and if you can call that balanced then you should be happy. What I think most people lack in this game is fellowship, when I started EQ2 I knew one other person and that is it, but I went out there and found a group started a guild and they have become very good friends and great adventuring partners. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>I think a key to enjoy this game is not to isolate your self and when you rush to 50 you tend to do just that because 90% of the server is still in its low to high twenties by then. What do you do with your self at that point? Camp some stupid mob for eight freaking hours? No because you will burn yourself out, I have every heritage either completed or in my journal and never got any of them through camping I set a daily routine go to Feerrott /wave named check the rock and if its not there I move on and do other things and enjoy the game. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>This is not the first and is *$%#&! sure not the last MMO that is going to come out but I can guarantee a few things.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>1. There will always be issues.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>2.  If you rush it or fall into that "if I stop fall behind mentality" you will miss out on a lot of things.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>3. If you do not attempt to make friends the game will be less enjoyable. </SPAN></P> <DIV>Edit: My grammer sucks and thats why I never write this much. </DIV><p>Message Edited by kerra on <span class=date_text>04-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:37 AM</span>

[SageMarrow]

<P>well kerra  - some have disheartning experiences for other reasons.</P> <P>My situation and Neverlifts sitauation was moreso because our server population is very thin. Only zones ever highly populated are antonica...and thats it.</P> <P>The broker on freeports side sucks. And most zones you go into to find groups and friends and things of that nature are horribly undercamped. i can log in right now and find 4 people in Runney Eye, all of them 45+ farming crap.</P> <P>While i may be very vocal around the forums, its because i run out of things to do - and im not a tradeskiller - i just cant do it kerra- my mind is works too hard and fast for it to be appealing, i have what you might consider controllable A.D.D.</P> <P>Thats the same reason i dont watch television...</P> <DIV>So once i cant find a group, soloing is the purest form of grinding to me, what else is left for a player like myself to do but sit around LFG for hours or go sit on the qeynos broker for hours looking for more equipment...?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>not much ill tell ya that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Which in turn is why i have such a big issue with the appeal of the zones and the character custimization and diversity...</DIV>

[Amanojak]

<P>Sage,</P> <P>In your situation I would have moved to another server a long time ago.</P> <P>There's no point in carrying on playing once a server starts to die. Come to Butcherblock, there population here is very healthy at all hours.</P>

[SageMarrow]

<P>lol, thanks for the invite Amano,</P> <P>Im level 41.... </P> <P>you couldnt pay me to run back through all that content again lol... but maybe, just maybe - i would do it as a healer...</P> <P>They always have a spot open for a dam healer!!! lol.</P> <P>Anyone reading this - Highkeep Server stinks.</P>