Brawler Tanking idea.

[SageMarrow]

<DIV>Just a suggestion, give me a good idea, bad idea suggestion.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>instead of taking the system and uprooting it for all that its worth i suggest this idea:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>it will help with multiple group aggro control.</DIV> <DIV>it would balance the lack of tankability.</DIV> <DIV>it would be a much more simple solution.</DIV> <DIV>it would also accomodate the largest number of players.</DIV> <DIV>it would promote the lore and feeling of the class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There should be a 1/2 decrease in our refresh timers on our combat arts to achieve a higher level of dps for outside tanking situations, leave power cost as they are, and allow for a counterattack every time a Miss block or parry occures in addition to the riposte.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These counterattacks can be on par with riposte damage. So as to give the feeling of a real martial artist fighting style presented by counter attacks and multiple person fights against one person, giving the appearance of fighting many opponents at once. Which would also balance the ability to tank multiple mob encounters as well as single opponent encounters by balancing out the Timefighting/damage taken ratio.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While this wouldnt allow the ability to tank raids in essence, it would still give a concurrent spot as damage dealer, buffstacking, and potential utility with the shortened refresh timers. and also provide a truly individualized form of tanking, </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As well as in the same situation, it would also make brawler types the primary tank in non raid situations where speed is optimal in experience based groups due to the lack of raid tanking ability.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So basically this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>5 mobs,</DIV> <DIV> miss/counter attack 200, </DIV> <DIV>block/counter attack 135</DIV> <DIV>parry/counter attack 215</DIV> <DIV>damage taken, 600</DIV> <DIV>block/ counter attack 125</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and so forth for the duration of the fight along side the single target dps that can be done without and power can be saved for the taunts we do have that are underpowered in comparison, so that multiple mobs take damage over the course of the fight and provides a way to actually hold aggro in multiple mob encounters without having to spam group buffs that suck up mana. Personally, i also believe that no other class would have a problem with this because of thier other abilities and its a great trade off in every respect considering a paladins heals, warriors defense, and hopefully they will fix shadow knights...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>just a thought.. tell me what you think.</DIV><p>Message Edited by SageMarrow on <span class=date_text>03-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:19 PM</span>

[Gaige]

...

[SageMarrow]

<DIV>mr raid tank rears his ugly head, lol, well good luck on darather loser!!!!:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[Wiou]

Huh!?<div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SageMarrow wrote:<BR> <DIV>mr raid tank rears his ugly head, lol, well good luck on darather loser!!!!:smileyvery-happy:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Darathar.  You'll get it right eventually.<BR>

[Jezekie]

<span><blockquote><hr>Gage-Mikel wrote:... <div></div><hr></blockquote>I second that. I honestly don't see how this improves out tanking at all, basically what you're asking for is increased DPS on top of our already perfectly fine damage out put. Eh?</span><div></div>

[i3ry]

I'll look forward to this on a patch message soon. <div></div>

[SageMarrow]

<DIV>well technically, im saying instead of buidling our tanking around defense and making us a lightly armored punching bag, build it around our damage output, since the defense route is blown because they are screwed on the avoidance end.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>its as simple as putting a counterattack onto each miss, block, parry or riposte, so we can hold aggro on multiple mobs at once, and make more solid the timefighting/damage taken ratio.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>that makes perfect sense to me... if we arent ever gonna be as good at defense, then we need to be overtly good at dropping mobs so that we decrease our damage INTAKE, by kill speed on a significant level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>despite some peoples efforts, just the ability to say you can, wont be enough to make a brawler MT at a raid. People want something simple and predictable, not a porcelain egg,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Porcelain egg = looks great, its sturdy for the most part, could survive a bump or a bruise, but one wrong slip and its broken and shattered (aka wiped)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so my idea, if you couldnt read it out of all of that,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>cut refresh timers, leave us with the taunts we have, </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>allow us to fight and inflict decent damage on multiple mobs at once whenever a miss block or parry comes in, and call it counterattack..</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>what doesnt make sense about that?  the shorter refresh timers will increase our dps output as well.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>I know every single brawler in here has had spam all thier combat arts to take aggro back because their taunts werent refreshed.</FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>I know we all have seen martial artist movies where bruce lee, jet li, jacky chan, take on 5 guys at once, and hes not all out fighting, he dips dodges, punch, dodge block, punch, avoid duck, kick....</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>So if we are going to be walking around as an inherent risk, then why not decrease that risk by our damage output?? make sense now?</DIV><p>Message Edited by SageMarrow on <span class=date_text>03-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:39 PM</span>

[Jezekie]

<span><blockquote><hr>SageMarrow wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div>well technically, im saying instead of buidling our tanking around defense and making us a lightly armored punching bag, build it around our damage output, since the defense route is blown because they are screwed on the avoidance end.</div> <div> </div> <div>its as simple as putting a counterattack onto each miss, block, parry or riposte, so we can hold aggro on multiple mobs at once, and make more solid the timefighting/damage taken ratio.</div> <div> </div> <hr></blockquote>Eh? You make no sense. In what alternate univers would making us deal more damage make us a better tank? Translation of all your gibberish is that you want the brawler class to be a DPS class and not a tank class because putting a counterattack to pur parry, block and ripostes attacks doesn't fix the issues with the current tank system.</span><div></div>

[SageMarrow]

<P>how will that make us tank better?</P> <P>BY KILLING MOBS FASTER!!!!!!!!!!!!! what cant you comprehend>???? can you even read? or are you a tank in real life too? a dumb punching bag perhaps?</P> <P>simple equation - add a counterattack to miss parry block.  = KILL MOBS FASTER!!!!</P> <P>nevermind - dont know why i even tried to come up with something new and unique when talking to SOB's that want the game to be square as heck so you can tank like a class that you are nothing like...</P> <P>tank ur raids, have at it.  </P> <P>(Edited for profanity)</P><p>Message Edited by SageMarrow on <span class=date_text>03-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:23 PM</span>

[SageMarrow]

<P>multiple mobs fighting = multiple misses blocks and parries.</P> <P>damage done to mobs that you are not directly engaged with in group fights = aggro increase</P> <P>damge done to mobs that you are not directly engaged with in group fights = less hp on mob when actually tab over to the mob for the kill.</P> <P>we will never be the optimal tank in a raid situation, and no matter what you think, and outside of your personal guild and friendly experiences, a monk will NEVER be the preffered tank.</P> <P>so if i **make no sense***, tell that to everyone else that doesnt have guilds that play together on that level, and to everyone who doesnt have a bunch of friends willing to let them tank when a guardian is around and they are forced to dps.  Get a clue, your head isnt supposed to fit that well into your anus.</P>

[Bi]

<span><blockquote><hr>SageMarrow wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div>well technically, im saying instead of buidling <font color="#ffff33">our</font> tanking around defense and making us a lightly armored punching bag, </div> <div>  </div><hr></blockquote>I thought you were a bruiser. go and annoy other bruisers. You are not a monk. Stay away from the monk boards. OUR does not apply to you, as WE are different from YOU. thanks. not trying to start anything, but it seems as if the bruiser board has had enough of you as well. I can't wait for an ignore feature on this board. I thought: brawler tanking idea - awesome.. then to see it was you posting it.. What an aberation</span><div></div>

[Wiou]

SageMarrow: hey u guys i got this cool ability that is really good and lots of other stuff you thats hard to understand Gage, Me, and friends: What? <cue for sage to explain it a little better, perhaps> SageMarrow: [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] u guys are [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] dont you have a brain or even cabapility to think omigog <edited cant spell the f word> Everyone: ..... me: wait wait I can predict the future SageMarrow: We all kno your [Removed for Content] wiou get outta town no une likes u ur [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] too i so do knot write like that <edited for spelling> <div></div>

[Wiou]

err<div></div>

[SageMarrow]

<P>umm wioum, i actually like your style before just now,</P> <P>and mr bruiser board.. find one bruiser outside of Jez that actually post there in decent frequency to get anything across, there arent alot of bruisers in this game, id bet money on about 1/2 of monks. Those that are bruiser- play the game and play dps roles for the <FONT color=#cc0000>most </FONT>part... not saying all, because i go with some different styles at different times, tank then dps, and back again, and there are several monks that i know personally who feel the exact same way....</P> <P>and the fact that a bruiser did the tanking before the monks is funny anyway, no one is "tired" of me on my board, just everyone that has the time and patience to post on these boards needs an alternate life (including me, )</P> <P>Majority of players dont post here unless they need something, personally i never did until the question was raised about future expansions. but as of recent its been raised to my attention that this game wasnt meant to be anything much more than a new game with an old names licensing.</P> <P>so hey - i may be wrong for wanting anything outside of a casual gaming experience for hobbyist with nothing better to do with thier lives but throw extra gas money into an MMO....</P> <P>my bad.:smileyvery-happy:</P>

[woo]

<P>if more dps = better tanking..</P> <P> </P> <P>shouldnt we let Warlocks tank then??</P>

[Amanojak]

<DIV> <P>I wonder how many people here has played other RPG type games? D&D, Baldur's Gate?, other non SEO morgs?</P> <P>What Sage is basically saying we should have more variety on our choice of class. More distinction amongst classes. Saying things like a warlock should tank does not help.</P> <P>Is it too hard to have a fighter class that can DPS and tank little? heck we have a fighter class that can heal and buff.</P> <P>All other RPG games have fighters that are the 2nd damage dealers after mages. Fighters gain this high DPS and high defense for their lack of ultility spells/arts. Mages gain high damage which offsets their low defense and low HP. Scout types gain all sorts of nice utility spells etc etc. </P> <P>D&D type games has been evolving for over 30years..moved away from just 4 types of class (that alot of people here seems to advocate) to the very complex system we can have today. Sony's system is just too basic. It's designed to be next to impossible to create a [Removed for Content] character. Thats why racial choise do not affect you character at the high levels. Thats why we get so little ability customisation...everything so samey..and why? Its to appeal to the casual gamers..the non power gamers...so any and every Tom [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] & Harry can create a lv50 character over time thats equivalent to Mr. Uber Gage there.</P> <P>I want to see Sony move away from this rigid class and class development system..and it seems Sony is actually doing that now with more upgrade choice included in the patches of late. And one way to move away from this ridgid system is to have tanks that CANNOT tank all equally. A tank that can DPS, a tank that can heal, a tank that just sits there and takes it...wow so many types of tanks....so many choices....scarey huh?</P></DIV>

[woo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amanojakae wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>Is it too hard to have a fighter class that can DPS and tank little? heck we have a fighter class that can heal and buff.</P> <P>All other RPG games have fighters that are the 2nd damage dealers after mages. Fighters gain this high DPS and high defense for their lack of ultility spells/arts. Mages gain high damage which offsets their low defense and low HP. Scout types gain all sorts of nice utility spells etc etc.</P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>dps and tank a little.. um sounds like a BRAWLER.  already in the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>if you want even less tanking, and more DPS.. go w/ a scout, like a swashbuckler--taunts, some avoidance, some mitigation, good dps</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and comparing EQ2 to D&D and other rpg games.. uhh, those are <EM>other</EM> games.</DIV>

[Gaige]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amanojakae wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>I wonder how many people here has played other RPG type games? D&D, Baldur's Gate?, other non SEO morgs?</P> <P>What Sage is basically saying we should have more variety on our choice of class. More distinction amongst classes. Saying things like a warlock should tank does not help.</P> <P>Is it too hard to have a fighter class that can DPS and tank little? heck we have a fighter class that can heal and buff.</P> <P>All other RPG games have fighters that are the 2nd damage dealers after mages. Fighters gain this high DPS and high defense for their lack of ultility spells/arts. Mages gain high damage which offsets their low defense and low HP. Scout types gain all sorts of nice utility spells etc etc.</P> <P>D&D type games has been evolving for over 30years..moved away from just 4 types of class (that alot of people here seems to advocate) to the very complex system we can have today. Sony's system is just too basic. It's designed to be next to impossible to create a [Removed for Content] character. Thats why racial choise do not affect you character at the high levels. Thats why we get so little ability customisation...everything so samey..and why? Its to appeal to the casual gamers..the non power gamers...so any and every Tom [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] & Harry can create a lv50 character over time thats equivalent to Mr. Uber Gage there.</P> <P>I want to see Sony move away from this rigid class and class development system..and it seems Sony is actually doing that now with more upgrade choice included in the patches of late. And one way to move away from this ridgid system is to have tanks that CANNOT tank all equally. A tank that can DPS, a tank that can heal, a tank that just sits there and takes it...wow so many types of tanks....so many choices....scarey huh?<BR></P> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>And a totally watered down, never balanced, crap game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One, consequently, that wasn't designed with an archetype system in mind.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This isn't D&D, this isn't a non-SoE MMO, and this isn't anything besides an MMO based on casual players, within an archetype system, where each class is fundamentally balanced against each other in their archetypes and then the archetypes are balanced against one another.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This makes the game easy to pick up and play, it makes it easy (supposedly) to balance, and it allows for players to get the flavor/style they want w/o being shoehorned into one specific class.<BR></DIV>

[RadricTyc]

<P>I've got an idea for making scouts better damage dealers!</P> <P>We'll start by letting them wear heavy armor, then we'll give them more defense buffs whose timers recharge instantly, and we'll give them deflection too so that they can dual wield instead of wearing a shield.  But if they want to they can wear a tower shield + deflection.</P> <P>:smileywink:</P> <P> </P>

[Wiou]

Sage, you and me share the same beliefs for monk/bruisers from what I can remember. My previous post was a sad attempt at something I failed horribly at. Please forgive me <span>:smileysurprised:</span> I looked back at your posts and realized you actually spelt fairly well and I was thinking of someone or something else and being an idiot <span>:smileywink:</span> <div></div>

[SageMarrow]

<DIV>ok ok - i love you again, not in a [Removed for Content] way- the other kinda love, okay scrap it all together</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>you cool dog, fashizzle....~1~</DIV>

[Wiou]

Lol<div></div>