The Future of Monks...?

[Teler]

<DIV>Hello all,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>at the moment I am trying to make up my mind about changing the class of my main, i.e. starting a new character. Therefor I would like to try a Monk, amongst a Templar and a Paladin. This cute Wood Elf Monk is now level 25 with full AQ.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I would like to see is how you more experienced Monks see the future of your class as I see a danger for it for the time when SOE is done with their first round of balancing all classes. This danger lies in the following:</DIV> <UL> <LI>Monks as Fighters seem to be seen by most and intended by SOE to be a tank class, thus tanking will be their primary job.</LI> <LI>Yet Monks and Bruisers are supposed to be highest DPS of the tank classes, maybe along side of Berserkers. This would imply that they "as payment" will relatively be the worst tanks. Tanking meaning the ability to survive a lot of hits and taunting.</LI> <LI>As Fighters are not intended to be DPS excelling classes, it will assumingly look like Sorcerers, Predators, Summoners and Rogues being the DPS classes one would look for when looking for someone to actually down enemies, i.e. filling the group's DPS spots.</LI> <LI>Also: Players tend to maximize their group's efficiency by selecting the best classes for any given spot if available. This would mean that Monks would be taken as tanks if no Guardians or Crusaders are available and as DPS only if no Mages or Scouts (not counting Bards / Enchanters) are available.</LI></UL> <P>So my questions would be, assuming the above is actually true: Do you more experienced Monks agree with me in those points and what would you try to strive for in order to make up for this danger?</P> <P>Deriving from my experience as Knight in EQ1, people tend to maximize their efficiency for group slots having a tolerance of 10%. Example: a class will be  taken as DPS in a similar frequency to the top DPS class if their DPS is within a 10% range of the top class. Only then they will also take the other benefits into account. This, of course is applicable only if the classes are available, but people tend to switch to the top classes, thus those will be available sufficiently leaving the ones who play the other classes in the dust a bit.</P>

[i3ry]

<DIV>Most of the time I am able to outdamage other fighter classes easilly (except berserkers on large number encounters) and still tank/hold agro just as well as a guardian.  As far as I am able to tell, Brawlers can tank every bit as good as a guardian in most situations but we have to pay a lot more attention to what we are doing, whereas guardians are able to slack a bit more due to their high [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] mitigation.  For example, when I tank I usually have Face of the Mountain up which will root you place.  Before I can cast it though I need to make sure the mobs are all lined up in front of me so that none of them are hitting me in the back or sides (places I can't deflect from).  From what I understand raid content is screwed up at 50+ and the mobs own us way too quickly (which hopefully will be fixed sooner or later) but so far at level 43 I have no problems finding groups, tanking, or dpsing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As long as you pay attention to what's going on you should have no problems with any role a group puts you in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh yeah, one last thing.  If you're ever in a group and they say, "Ok, now all we need is a tank," its your job to go pull something immediately and tank it just to remind them you aren't a scout.</DIV>

[Teler]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> i3ry2k wrote:<BR> <DIV>...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh yeah, one last thing.  If you're ever in a group and they say, "Ok, now all we need is a tank," its your job to go pull something immediately and tank it just to remind them you aren't a scout.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Thank you for the reply, and that is exactly what I did, they looked for a tank, I pulled a mob and made them forget their needs due to battle hehe. Guess I have potential as Monk then <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Oidan]

<P>I think generally the larger part of the top % of people now realise the tanking potential of the Brawler class. In reference to grp dependencies, I kind of agree with you. I also played a knight class in eq1 and was in a big raiding guild. I have heard the "We need a tank" thing before and I just smile. You will run into people who have the old mindset but just nicely tell them we need dps, we already have a tank. If they dont agree then leave the grp, their loss.</P> <P>In eq1 being an older game, you had a lot more people at the higher levels to choose from to have the best rounded out grp for max Exp per hour. Right now in eq2 we dont really have that (atleast on my server). For the most part as long as you have the core basics....a healer and a tank, most pickup grp's just pick whatever else is avail. This is not all of the time granted but for the most part, people dont want to wait forever to get started and peoples roles/class I believe are a lil more diverse than eq1. If you have mult tank classes they can substitute for dps. </P> <P>I know people like to throw out they (plate wearers) dont do great dps. I have found that other classes do just fine and the not so perfect grp make up of obscure classes can do quite well once you adapt.</P> <DIV>**Edit**</DIV> <DIV>Also I am curious as to why you started over and are no longer playing your ranger?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Oidan on <span class=date_text>03-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:28 AM</span>

[IrulanDunedanc]

<DIV>Going by her sig, I'm guessing 'cause she hit 50 and wanted to try something else.</DIV>

[SageMarrow]

<P>In regards to the OP.  The higher level monks that post in these forums on this issue say that there is no disparity and that brawlers are tanks  - rain sleet or snow without any side barring of dps in groups, and if necessarry - they would give up the dps in order to tank better and be on par with a guardian type as soe *promised*. </P> <P> </P> <P>(edit - and i will add a personal experience from last night, where as we had an inquis and templar in group and i was the MT for about 4 hours, in runneye and we wiped once on the brewmiester because he hit me with a few really hard hits or something like that, so we went back to try him again and by the end of the fight, both healers were OOP and i had to be revived once before the fight ended. this is at level 36.</P> <P>now about an hour later, they called in a guildie and he was a ratonga berserker. With the templars types healing, we ran the same route and ended up right back at the brewmeister again, the fight was a beutiful succeess= the MT's HP never went below green once, we all had power left, and we proceeded throughout the rest of the dungeon and i was in essence "tanked under that table" as some have said. no one doubted my ability in the group, i didnt have any problems holding aggro -- or taking it for that matter when i wanted too (lol) - the thing more so was just the innate ability of the class)</P> <P>i know about the wards thing, but going through runneye - there are alot of caster mobs = that tend to rip through me. and wards dont help much against....)</P> <P>just a personal experience... thats all</P> <p>Message Edited by SageMarrow on <span class=date_text>03-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:51 PM</span>

[Wiou]

<div></div>Little off topic, but I like your sig <a target="_blank" href="../view_profile?user.id=88874"><span>Teleria</span></a><span> :smileysurprised:</span><div></div>

[Teler]

<P>Thank you Liou Kang, and thanks to all others for the information.</P> <P>As for why I am thinking about switching? Because I hate to play the ever broken pity classes in SOE games, because I don't like to be trashed by grey ^ ^ mobs while other classes next to me solo blue ^ ^ or even green ^ ^ nameds, because SOE's vision of Scouts is flawed and also unfair, especially in the aspect of costs.</P> <P>And because SOE rather lies to us than to fix our issues: Touching a broken skill 4 times, posting it to be fixed in patchmessages 2 times and having it still broken... no thanks!</P> <P>Sorry if this came over like a rant now...</P>

[SageMarrow]

hell naw= speak the truth, so that the [Removed for Content] holy trinities dont arise out of the ashes of 500 years past...also known as eq1