New Change to AC

[TBHt]

Just looking through the Test Server patch notes for 3/18 (http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=32) and wanted to bring my fellow monk's attention to an issue that will most certainly affect us, should it go live: <strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Avoidance and Mitigation ***</font></strong> <div> </div> <div>- Instead of displaying a single value to express your character's defensive capabilities, your Persona window now separates AC into Avoidance and Mitigation.- Avoidance represents your chance to avoid physical attacks. Mousing over the Avoidance value on your Persona window will show your overall chance to avoid attacks, and will indicate the value of your various avoidance-based skills and your shield if you have one equipped.- Mitigation indicates how well your armor will absorb incoming physical damage. Mousing over the Mitigation value on your Persona window will show your overall absorption percentage against attacks at your level. Examining a piece of armor will show its relative mitigation value based on level, quality, and type of armor.- Shields now display a Shield Factor to represent their relative usefulness.- Both Mitigation and Avoidance percentages are based on defending yourself against an average opponent of your level. You will tend to mitigate and avoid better against weaker opponents and worse against stronger ones. I was all for the AC change that represented avoidance in the regular AC number, but I'm not sure this is a good thing or a bad thing for us. On one hand it will tell us how exactly our mitigation stacks up with plate tanks and with an exact avoidance number we might impress the other classes enough to gain enough respect to be MT a lot more. Hoever, on the other hand, it just kind of serperates us from the rest of the fighter archetype. Who knows, people may ignore the avoidance number. I guess more information is always better though. </div> <div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TBHtjd wrote:<BR>Just looking through the Test Server patch notes for 3/18 (http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=32) and wanted to bring my fellow monk's attention to an issue that will most certainly affect us, should it go live:<BR><BR><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Avoidance and Mitigation ***</FONT></STRONG> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Instead of displaying a single value to express your character's defensive capabilities, your Persona window now separates AC into Avoidance and Mitigation.<BR>- Avoidance represents your chance to avoid physical attacks. Mousing over the Avoidance value on your Persona window will show your overall chance to avoid attacks, and will indicate the value of your various avoidance-based skills and your shield if you have one equipped.<BR>- Mitigation indicates how well your armor will absorb incoming physical damage. Mousing over the Mitigation value on your Persona window will show your overall absorption percentage against attacks at your level. Examining a piece of armor will show its relative mitigation value based on level, quality, and type of armor.<BR>- Shields now display a Shield Factor to represent their relative usefulness.<BR>- Both Mitigation and Avoidance percentages are based on defending yourself against an average opponent of your level. You will tend to mitigate and avoid better against weaker opponents and worse against stronger ones.<BR><BR>I was all for the AC change that represented avoidance in the regular AC number, but I'm not sure this is a good thing or a bad thing for us. On one hand it will tell us how exactly our mitigation stacks up with plate tanks and with an exact avoidance number we might impress the other classes enough to gain enough respect to be MT a lot more. Hoever, on the other hand, it just kind of serperates us from the rest of the fighter archetype. Who knows, people may ignore the avoidance number. I guess more information is always better though.<BR></DIV><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It goes live on Monday with live update #6 (its 6 right?) I assume and with the new adventure pack.</P> <P>I welcome the change because it will allow us to see where we stand when compared to plate tanks (especially the tower guys).</P> <P>Now we'll see just how far behind we are in mitigation and how far ahead we are in avoidance (are we even ahead)?</P> <P>Hopefully if its not leveraged the way it should be for both classes, this will bring around some changes.</P> <P>If all else fails we can find out just how much agility affects avoidance.<BR></P>

[NeVeRLi]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>Very interesting! I am looking forward to this and will post the facts for mine and my friends info. He is lvl 44 guardian and I am lvl 44 monk. As stated in other posts I can solo ^^ that are 4 levels below me and he can solo ^^ that are 2 level below him. I already have him beat in AC unless he uses his tower shield which he does not, he uses a very nice master drop two hand  weapon. His defense skill is around 10-15 more than mine. He is buffing his 21-24 points(not sure he took the racial trait yet) and I'm buffing mine 12, (adept 1 sweeping crane and racial trait) this was at lvl 43 for both us. I will post more information after this goes live and I scribe my Spider stance adept 1. <div></div><p>Message Edited by NeVeRLiFt on <span class=date_text>03-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:14 AM</span>

[Wiou]

wanted it to go live firiday so would have weekend to check it out <div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wiou wrote:<BR>wanted it to go live firiday so would have weekend to check it out<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Updates are almost always on Monday.  I guess they have more devs there on Mondays or something.  *shrug*</DIV>

[Bos]

<span><blockquote><hr>Gage-Mikel wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Wiou wrote:wanted it to go live firiday so would have weekend to check it out <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <div>Updates are almost always on Monday.  I guess they have more devs there on Mondays or something.  *shrug*</div><hr></blockquote>I believe it's so that if there are major problems with the patch they won't have to be working the weekend to fix it.</span><div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>This is most certainly a good thing, because it will let us accurately test how monks stand against the other tank classes at high levels. I've heard reports of guardians tanking level 50-58+ Epic raid mobs with nothing on but thier weapons and they still barely got scratched at all.</DIV>

[NeVeRLi]

Its because guardians can buff their defense skill so high. <div></div>

[Wiou]

Yeah, good observation BossJ. <div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>To the point where they actually avoid nearly every hit from a level 55+ Epic x4 raid mob?</DIV>

[bonesbro]

Yup.  Raise your Defense skill high enough, and the mob is effectively grey to you. <div></div>

[Ri]

<DIV>Just thought I'd chime in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have a L21 bruiser on test.  My current mitigation is 354, but I'm only wearing 5 pieces of armor (2 grey and 3 AQ pieces) and no jewelry.  Says I'll absorb 16.8% damage from a L21 mob.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Avoidance is interesting. . .It says I have a 61.4% chance to avoid an attack.  (Base: 27.9%,  Block: 0.0%,  Parry: 23.1%,  Deflection: 30.5%)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Current Agility is 37.  With no armor, it's 33.  With nothing on my avoidance is 60.7% (Base: 27.4%, Block: 0.0%, Parry: 22.7%, Deflection: 30.0%)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Intelligence does not increase parry % (equiped a +int piece of armor, no incease).  However, agility does (same test).  Stats above are with no buffs.  Brawlers Stance app3 (although this is an -old- pre-app4 app3), increases base stats by 1.1%. (+4 to defense and +3 to deflection).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Chatted briefly with a L37 gaurdian.  However, not a good comparrison at all since he was in a group with buffs and everything.  He did only have an avoidence of 65.4%, which is only slightly better than mine.  (43.7% base, 13.8% shield, 28.6% parry).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guess we'll know more tomorrow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: Just talked with a 41 bruiser.  She's got 73.6% avoidence, 38.7% base, 30.2% parry and 38.4% deflection.  With bouncer (?) buff on.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Rish on <SPAN class=date_text>03-20-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:17 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Rish on <span class=date_text>03-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:20 PM</span>

[Wiou]

Well we'll all have our stats when it comes live. Just by looking at those though they seem to be off... <div></div>

[OgApostrap]

<DIV>It depends on gear... I want to see what one of the [Removed for Content] out 50 monks vs a jsut as well equiped 50 guardain is.. those numbers seem off.. the guardain was 4 levels lwoer.. but had more abse evasion.. hopefully that monk was naked.. ;p</DIV>

[SageMarrow]

<P>something tells me its just a tad bit blown, and these numbers will hurt more than they help if it *SAYS* we have the avoidance that we are supposed to but it doesnt reflect as such...</P> <P>but another thing before i go there... all MITIGATION/AVOIDANCE numbers will be relative to a mob of EQUAL level. so that IMO is where avoidance will fail and does as of now in most cases.</P> <P>and for that matter we can all vouch that for the most part if we fight a solo white con mob at almost any level we usually dont take much damage and in some cases can almost go afk.</P> <P>so in actuallity it may end up being a problem with the scaling. against a white con we may have 73% avoidance but how does that scale as the mobs level increases? (73% > +1 level= 63% > +1 level= 53%) and so forth? thats my assumption based on how it feels in game, whether the numbers match up or not with the ac/mitigation.</P> <P>so even at level 50 we have x amount of avoidance to a white con mob, it scales downward as the mobs scale upward, right? that would mean a 50 Monk fighting a 54+++ loses 40% avoidance before the fight even starts and extra factors like epic status and named and groupx4 are even thrown into the mix statistically.(which is where the agility issue comes into play)</P> <P>heh, who knows - just a hunch   </P> <p>Message Edited by SageMarrow on <span class=date_text>03-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:16 AM</span>

[TBHt]

Ok so the change is live. Can some people post their numbers? Mine (at level 40) goes as follows: -1416 Mitigation (35.4% damage reduction) -74.8% avoidance (39% base, 0% block, 31.3% parry, 40% deflection). Also, I'd like to hear your observations. My first concerns are: -0% block? - Block is based on deflection skill, right? Did SoE just screw up and put in block and deflection or should we get a percentage from both? -What is the "base" based on? <div></div>

[Taeda]

At 50 mine is 75.8%, and i have 1500 or so midigation i cant remember the exact number. I talk to a guardian and he told me he could buff himself over 75% avoidance and had double the amount of AC i had. Monk on par with guardians in tanking ability...oviously not.

[Yrield]

<span><blockquote><hr>TBHtjd wrote:Ok so the change is live. Can some people post their numbers? Mine (at level 40) goes as follows: -1416 Mitigation (35.4% damage reduction) -74.8% avoidance (39% base, 0% block, 31.3% parry, 40% deflection). Also, I'd like to hear your observations. My first concerns are: -0% block? - Block is based on deflection skill, right? Did SoE just screw up and put in block and deflection or should we get a percentage from both? -What is the "base" based on? <div></div><hr></blockquote> Block is your shielding ability, monk dont use shield they dont have block skill, shielded tank have 0% of deflection Base is based on your base defence if you ask me, SoE just screw up the whole thing both migitation and advoidance... you can see some lvl40 templar running around with 2200+ mitigation, yeah right</span><div></div>

[Dagrean]

<P>no, Monks SHOULD have the same block % as a person using a comprable round shield of similar level. Obviously it doesn't add up though, since it's not added in, so we can assume it's being added in elsewhere - (like in defelection, which really doesn't makes sense)</P> <P>my monk (34.72)</P> <P>Mitigatation: 1170 - 34.4% mitigated at level 34</P> <P>Avoidance: 73.8% - Base:38.8%  block: 0.0% Parry30.4% Deflection 38.5%</P> <P>I'll post my paladin's stats later (only 28 though)</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Almeric_CoS]

<DIV>No, monks having 0% block is correct, because block is only for shields.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When SOE took away the ability for monks to use shields, they said we would still avoid attacks as if we were wearing a round shield.  That either went into our "base" avoidance that you see now, or they pumped up the effectiveness of Deflection.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Almeric on <span class=date_text>03-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:58 PM</span>

[Crunion]

<DIV>mitigation : 1761 think thats what this one was.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>avoidance 76.1  know this one is accurate.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and about 400 less in most resists. can see how effective i tank, but i get hit by magic alot more now  8(</DIV>

[OgApostrap]

At 29 I have 945 mitigation and 70.1% avoidance.. can get to like 1200 mitigation and like 71% avoidance <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[NeVeRLi]

I would rather SoE give us the small buckler or round shield back. At least that way we know its there and working. As it stands deflection does not work, and there are some very nice master drop shields and heritage  quest shields we could be using. <div></div>

[Kota]

<P>i've given up on trying to understand how it works.  with spider stance adept3 (which by itself gave me .6% avoidance) i have like 75.3% avoidance.  i did some equipping/unequipping and basically saw 10 agility equalling .6% avoidance.  i read somewhere that your avoidance percentage is vs a same lvl mob.  i have been mentoring (love the whole idea of mentoring, great addidtion  /applaud) a friend in TS/ROV.  i parsed less than 40% avoidance.  i dunno if that 75% is vs solo mobs only, but if it is, that's just dumb.  i was the first monk on my server to hit 50, by a large margin, and no one asks me to tank.  and i know why.  did a lil raid tonight, and the MT died.  aggro was rampant and bouncing all over, so i dumped my taunts on it.  to my surprise, the healers picked me up, and i proceeded to tank, for like 10 seconds.  was feeling cool for a sec, then it hit me like 10 times in a row.   i sure didn't dodge 75% of those hits.  you may say, well that's just bad luck.  well i'm not one to lean on luck in a raid situation.  you've heard of ppl who win the lottery, twice.  and you've heard of ppl who buy 1000 tickets and still lose.  too unpredictable for me.  it says 75.3% avoidance, but i just laugh.  next time the MT loses aggro, i'm just gonna FD.  because with stop heart adept 3 it's prolly gonna take about 10 tries before it actually works.</P> <P><A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=119133113" target=_blank>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=119133113</A>  <-- me</P> <P>stats may be skewed as i was mentoring tonight</P>

[SageMarrow]

<P>its to a mob of EQUAL level.. so at level 50 - anything above 50 --- you will lose x amount of avoidance... (thats not taking into account the stat differences presented when named, epic status, ^^^x4's are concerened.)</P> <P>so if at level 50 you hit 75%, match that to a level 54^^^ and see where you stand then.. my bet is that its at around less than 50%.</P> <P>which is in turn is why i agree, its either gonna be a roaring success or a miserable failure. too inconsistent and illustrates how far the deflection will have to go to accomodate the heavy armor lacking presented with brawler types.  </P>

[NeVeRLi]

<div></div>I think its a lie. The only time I dodge 75% of all attacks is when something is 5-6 levels below me and grrrrr every class can do this. Tell me why I can only solo ^^ 4 levels below me and my friends guardian can solo ^^ 2 levels below him? We both lvl 44. I tank the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] in PF and get hit more than he does and take twice the damage! Not saying the guardians dont get hit, but the difference is there and the dev's owe us an answer why we cant avoid like they said we can! Fix our deflection please. <div></div><p>Message Edited by NeVeRLiFt on <span class=date_text>03-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:59 PM</span>

[SageMarrow]

<DIV>try fighting a solo mob.. with no ^^'s, that might show it a bit better, but keep in mind that avoidance is still random.... it may or may not work.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>with mitigation, there is no "bad set of rolls" its mitigate damage, mitigate damage, mitigate damage. </DIV><p>Message Edited by SageMarrow on <span class=date_text>03-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:36 AM</span>

[NeVeRLi]

As for soloing regular monsters why do that? They dont offer any experience and my guardian friend can solo ^^ two levels below him. Hell I'm not asking to solo ^^ that are higher levels than me like warlocks can do! I have seen the fright skeletons hit me more that the polar bears in EF! The [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] bears are lvl 49 and the skeletons are lvl 44. <div></div>

[SageMarrow]

<P>oh i MEANT strictly for testing purposes. because thats how the mobs are made in relation to players.</P> <P>1 PC - 1 solo mob of equal level.</P> <P>thats why soe always stresses that group mobs are meant for groups. its about the scaling of skill. you arent supposed to be able to fight a group mob without a group at all. while we know that with level scaling it can be done. </P>

[NeVeRLi]

It does not make sense as the monsters are conned wrong IMHO for solo con's. The level 48-49 glacial bears are easier to kill than the level 44 fright skeletons. EL was the first place I really saw how messed up the con system was and I'm seeing it some more in LS and EF. The skeletons in EF seem to be the masters of parry :p this inturn makes them harder to kill. <div></div>

[SageMarrow]

<P>well i would like to say that all the mobs are not of equal skill and ability...but i dont know that for sure.</P> <P>but thats how they ***say**** we are balanced. i only know what they tell me from now on.. lol</P>

[i3ry]

<DIV> <DIV>Why are people so obsessed with soloing on a <STRONG>massively multiplayer</STRONG> game?  If you want to go kill all kinds of things by yourself with no effort go play Diablo III--- Err, I mean World of Warcraft.</DIV></DIV>

[SageMarrow]

<P> well that doesnt take into account all the husband wife duos, all the busy people players, and the fact that although we wish it were so, there arent always enough people online to form groups. ive been in EL at times when only 12 people were between EL and runney eye combined.  </P> <P>So the game within itself forces you to solo at times, either solo, or dont play.  some are gonna be sitting in tradeskill instances, some are gona be sitting in houses afk selling. </P> <P>its actually kinda neccessary until we hit the **World of Warcraft** numbers of players in game at any given time and functional groups arent so hard to come by and the small duos and trios and soloers, can have thier corner of the world and allow the game to expand as it was intended to on the grouped play level.</P> <DIV>My opinion..</DIV>

[JuJut]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> i3ry2k wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV>Why are people so obsessed with soloing on a <STRONG>massively multiplayer</STRONG> game?  If you want to go kill all kinds of things by yourself with no effort go play Diablo III--- Err, I mean World of Warcraft.</DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks for your input. I'll give it all the consideration it deserves.<BR>

[Crunion]

<DIV>well this patch sure has me messed up with tanking  8(..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>choo - lvl 45   mitigation 1616  avoidance  76.2%  4 pieces of old rare tier 5 armor   2 cedar batons old version.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>mob - lvl 45 stag (white con) hard fight hits me alot but can kill. around 20-30% health left.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>mob - lvl 41 ancient frostfin ^^ (green con) fairly easy fight can kill 90% of the time and still have 80%+ hp left... 1061 quick strike (think thats what it was)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>mob - lv ?? headhunter  (grey con)  can't touch this mob. kills me too fast with magic.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>mob - lvl 36 Dvith N'Zur ^^ (grey con) can't touch this mob. kills me too fast with magic  1500+ arrow strike.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not sure if I am the only one noticing this, but its not good</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>