Pallys latest UberTank?

[Owa]

<DIV>Oi!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm in Zek right now (31 monk, best equipment for my level, attuned, stats raised etc) and I thought I was soloing the single orcs (30-31) pretty well. Then I see a <STRONG>27 </STRONG>Pally with just AQ gear and Starfall slaying the same mobs better than me. Hardly getting hit, dealing out some pretty respectable DPS and healing himself if and when he did get clobbered  - all with almost no downtime. What's that about? And why does he avoid hits better than me? :womanmad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ps. This my 2nd level 31 Tank so I know how to play the game reasonably well by now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>pps My STR is 95 AGI is 94</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The pally's is 81 and 59</DIV><p>Message Edited by annaspider on <span class=date_text>02-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:59 AM</span>

[Styk]

ok pallies have wards and can heal themselves...also that starfall is a heavy hitter....

[OgApostrap]

<DIV>Was just doing an instanced zone with a group.. level 28 pally as mt.(26 berseker did tanka  bit though) Vs the named of the zone, the healer ran out of power and the pally was able to stay alive with his own heals and such the fight while named was at 40% and the 4 or 5 friends (no arrows in any direction <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />), he came out of the fight still in orange and like 30% power.. named and his friends were I think 26 or 27.. he used starfall shield combo..</DIV>

[Bur]

I duno, I keep ending up with paladins who can't hold agro to save their lives.

[SomeDudeCRO]

They have better aggro management abilities than we do. If they cant hold aggro, its the player or the group not the class <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[buggz620]

Group with a pally alot he dont seem any diff then he was before.Dont really care who is the so called Uber Tank is as long as my own class is funtional and I can fill the role that i was ment too.

[TormEQ2]

<DIV>Funny, I tend to let the monk I group with reguarly tank so I can focus on Wards/healing <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Ah well, the grass is always greener <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> annaspider wrote:<BR> <DIV>Oi!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm in Zek right now (31 monk, best equipment for my level, attuned, stats raised etc) and I thought I was soloing the single orcs (30-31) pretty well. Then I see a <STRONG>27 </STRONG>Pally with just AQ gear and Starfall slaying the same mobs better than me. Hardly getting hit, dealing out some pretty respectable DPS and healing himself if and when he did get clobbered  - all with almost no downtime. What's that about? And why does he avoid hits better than me? :womanmad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ps. This my 2nd level 31 Tank so I know how to play the game reasonably well by now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>pps My STR is 95 AGI is 94</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The pally's is 81 and 59</DIV> <P>Message Edited by annaspider on <SPAN class=date_text>02-19-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:59 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Since when do Paladins not get hit?  Since when can Paladins out-dps a Monk?  If he was not getting hit, why did he need to heal himself? Bah!</P> <P>The Starfall is a Tier 3 weapon.  It goes bye-bye after lvl 30.</P>

[Warg]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> annaspider wrote:<BR> <DIV>Oi!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm in Zek right now (31 monk, best equipment for my level, attuned, stats raised etc) and I thought I was soloing the single orcs (30-31) pretty well. Then I see a <STRONG>27 </STRONG>Pally with just AQ gear and Starfall slaying the same mobs better than me. Hardly getting hit, dealing out some pretty respectable DPS and healing himself if and when he did get clobbered  - all with almost no downtime. What's that about? And why does he avoid hits better than me? :womanmad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ps. This my 2nd level 31 Tank so I know how to play the game reasonably well by now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>pps My STR is 95 AGI is 94</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The pally's is 81 and 59</DIV> <P>Message Edited by annaspider on <SPAN class=date_text>02-19-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:59 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>at lvl 27 paladins dps is crap compared to a monk's dps of the same level. we dont even have Oath strike (250dd with dot) which is a lvl 28 spell. as far as healing we're lucky we are healing around the 200s and warding around 150-200.</P> <P>so to say that a lvl 27 paladin is out dps and tanking (which btw paladins are tanks, monks arent meant to be tanks. go do some research on your class) better than a level 31 monk is ridiculous. </P> <P>really you think we are overpowered. go find yourself a lvl 27 paladin and grp with him. and conduct a couple experiements before complaining about something.</P> <P>~nytefire, 38 paladin of blackburrow</P>

[Ja]

<blockquote><hr>Warger wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>annaspider wrote:<BR><DIV>Oi!</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I'm in Zek right now (31 monk, best equipment for my level, attuned, stats raised etc) and I thought I was soloing the single orcs (30-31) pretty well. Then I see a <STRONG>27 </STRONG>Pally with just AQ gear and Starfall slaying the same mobs better than me. Hardly getting hit, dealing out some pretty respectable DPS and healing himself if and when he did get clobbered - all with almost no downtime. What's that about? And why does he avoid hits better than me? :womanmad:</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>ps. This my 2nd level 31 Tank so I know how to play the game reasonably well by now.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>pps My STR is 95 AGI is 94</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>The pally's is 81 and 59</DIV><P>Message Edited by annaspider on <SPAN class=date_text>02-19-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:59 AM</SPAN><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><P>at lvl 27 paladins dps is crap compared to a monk's dps of the same level. we dont even have Oath strike (250dd with dot) which is a lvl 28 spell. as far as healing we're lucky we are healing around the 200s and warding around 150-200.</P><P>so to say that a lvl 27 paladin is out dps and tanking (which btw paladins are tanks, monks arent meant to be tanks. go do some research on your class) better than a level 31 monk is ridiculous. </P><P>really you think we are overpowered. go find yourself a lvl 27 paladin and grp with him. and conduct a couple experiements before complaining about something.</P><P>~nytefire, 38 paladin of blackburrow</P><hr></blockquote>Just a quick point, but Monks ARE supposed to be tanks. Thats why we are part of the fighter tree. If we were not meant to be tanks then would we not have come from the scout (DPS) tree? Anyway, whether monks are meant to be tanks is no longer debatable. It has been said by MG on numerous occasions that we are. If there is still a perception from other classes that we are not tanks, then that is the situation that needs to be examined.

[Roble]

<DIV>This is one of the most uninformed posts ever.  A post on watching someone else, of a different level with totally different gear.  Get a clue, a Paladin is a tank, a monk is a DPS.  Do Paladins rock? Hell yeah they do, but I am a 50 Paladin and I get outdamaged easily by a lower level berzerker.  So there is nothing wrong with our damage or tanking ability.  On my guild raids we have Paladins, Guardians, and Berzerkers tanking and all of them do it just as well as the other.  Tanks are fairly balanced at the moment I believe.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you want to compare a monk to another class, compare them to assassins, or swashbucklers, or some other dual wielding DPS class.  Oh and the starfall is a awesome hard hitting weapon until higher levels.</DIV><p>Message Edited by RobleeS on <span class=date_text>02-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:23 AM</span>

[Ja]

<blockquote><hr>RobleeS wrote:<DIV>This is one of the most uninformed posts ever. A post on watching someone else, of a different level with totally different gear. Get a clue, a Paladin is a tank, a monk is a DPS. Do Paladins rock? Hell yeah they do, but I am a 50 Paladin and I get outdamaged easily by a lower level berzerker. So there is nothing wrong with our damage or tanking ability. On my guild raids we have Paladins, Guardians, and Berzerkers tanking and all of them do it just as well as the other. Tanks are fairly balanced at the moment I believe. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>If you want to compare a monk to another class, compare them to assassins, or swashbucklers, or some other dual wielding DPS class. Oh and the starfall is a awesome hard hitting weapon until higher levels.</DIV><p>Message Edited by RobleeS on <span class=date_text>02-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:23 AM</span><hr></blockquote>I'm going to say it again. Monks ARE Tanks. Thats the bottom line. If they are not, then that is where the problem is. Monks were created in this game to tank the same mobs as other fighters with comparable results. Monks in EQ2 are primarily a Tank class. MG has said this over and over.

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RobleeS wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>This is one of the most uninformed posts ever. </FONT> A post on watching someone else, of a different level with totally different gear.  Get a clue, a <FONT color=#ff0000>Paladin is a tank, a monk is a DPS.</FONT>  Do Paladins rock? Hell yeah they do, but I am a 50 Paladin and I get outdamaged easily by a lower level berzerker.  So there is nothing wrong with our damage or tanking ability.  On my guild raids we have Paladins, Guardians, and Berzerkers tanking and all of them do it just as well as the other.  Tanks are fairly balanced at the moment I believe.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you want to compare a monk to another class, compare them to assassins, or swashbucklers, or some other dual wielding DPS class.  Oh and the starfall is a awesome hard hitting weapon until higher levels.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by RobleeS on <SPAN class=date_text>02-20-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:23 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Speaking of uninformed...</P> <P>I for one am SICK of these threads calling such and such "uber" blah blah.  It doesn't help anything and all it does is start flames, etc.  If a class doesn't have an issue that screws with game balance, then leave them alone.</P> <P>I have a lot of friends that are paladins, and they've tanked in groups and I've tanked in groups, with the same success.</P> <P>What is the point of this post except to cause an arguement, which isn't needed here.<BR></P>

[Seomon]

This seems to be where all the cool kids are posting. I don't feel like being "My class is not teh uberist and blah de blah de blah" so I'll just say... My horse beat up your Kata.

[Owa]

<DIV>Bloody hell! I was just asking a question...I wasn't expecting a kind of Spanish Inquisition....</DIV>

[Seomon]

<blockquote><hr>annaspider wrote:<DIV>Bloody hell! I was just asking a question...I wasn't expecting a kind of Spanish Inquisition....</div><hr></blockquote>Oh, hey dude, we "avoid hits better than you" because we have a Ward. Which isn't really avoiding hits, and I personally think it's a waste of good mana, but eh, some people like them. That might be why it didn't look like he was getting hit. And we're perty decent solo'ers <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But just because we solo perty good doesn't mean we're better tanks.

[Dimgroth]

Wow..Just Wow... first whining to get the horse nerfed then whining to get the damage nerfed, whats next you want them to take healing? Thatd make us a...lump of crap. Were decent but were not overpowered, get a life.

[Owa]

<DIV> <DIV> To the previous poster,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I 'm including a copy of a post I made on the Pally boards in response to my original post here:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I<EM> wasn't going after anything or anyone. I don't care about the horsie thing - never did - and personally I think having a horse is part of being a Paladin and what's the point of a horse that can't run faster than its rider?</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Having said that, I was confused as to how a pally 4 levels lower than me was soloing so much more efficiently, and if you read my post carefully you'll see that my main gripe is that I wasn't avoiding better, which, based on class level and stats, I bloody well should have been.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>ps. I have a 31 zerker and a 31 monk and I know what nerfage is and wouldn't wish it on ANYBODY <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_woman-happy.gif" width=16 border=0></EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>And by the way, there is no need to be rude when posting your responses to other people's opinions.</DIV></DIV>

[Warg]

<DIV>from SoE;</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Fighters use brute strength and sturdy weapons to deal physical damage to their enemies. Always at the forefront of combat, fighters stand toe to toe with opponents while keeping their allies from harm. No matter the rick, fighters never back down from a challenge.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> a. Brawlers specialize in physical combat styles that bring them face to face with the enemy. Favoring light armor and hand to hand battle tactics, brawlers have honed their bodies into potent weapons.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> a2. Monks are disciplined combants who specialize in the martial arts. Their natural agility allows them to avoid their enemy's blows and strike back with clean, efficient counter attacks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> b. Crusaders are armored juggernauts that call upon divine powers to aid them in battle. Capable of dealing impressive physical damage, crusaders can wield a variety of weapons and shields.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> b2. Paladins are crusaders for all things good and right. Wearing heavy armor, these valiant defenders of truth fight for nobility, honor, and virtue</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ok....thats the actual fighter tree from SOE themselves....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the difference between avoid dmg and asborbing damage lies in AC and HPs. at the brawler stage in your tree progression you give up heavy armor for light armor and you give up shields/weapons for preferance with hand to hand combat. which is fine, but crusaders pick up the heavy armor with the ac and picks up shields/weapons.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>monks can tank, i will not agrue that they cant. but what im saying is that there will always be a line of whos 1, 2, 3, 4, and so on....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and paladins are always going to be more successful taking straight up hits (not avoiding hits) from npcs better than a monk. where a monk will deal more damage per second with better weapons/hands that have little to no delay. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and yes you monks are at the bottom of the fighter tree as far as tanking goes. its the same with scouts, mages and priest....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>pretty much its like saying that a Mystic should heal better then a Templar, or that a Dirge do better dmg then an Assassin.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Before starting a post flaming or calling a class uber or better to complain about them. do some actual research. i dont mean go to a stragey guide or something like that. go out and find a similar lvl paladin or SK, or guardian, or zerker....whatever you want and do some Real world experiments. so you can see why he does better or worse or whatever.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~nytefire</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Owa]

<DIV>Like I said... I was posting my opinions and observations. And it is not mandated anywhere - to my knowledge -  that one must conduct extensive testing in order to have <EM>either</EM> observations <EM>or</EM> opinions. I didn't parse data nor did I claim to have done so.</DIV> <DIV>I understand the difference between different fighter types (as I mentioned, I have a 31 Monk AND a 31 Zerker) and was posting what appeared to be an anomaly in soloing ability between two fighters 4 levels apart.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I abhor nerfs and wouldn't wish them on anyone - even those who insist upon misunderstanding what I consider to be coherent posts. Having said that, I would like to think we can all agree that if the subscription fee is the same for all classes then soloing ability should be also. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is, of course, possible that either my observations were incorrect and/or I'm just really bad at playing EQ2. Even if this is the case, however, I see no need for anything other than discussion of what is actually <EM>in </EM>the posts themselves, rather than insulting the posters or presuming to understand what they <EM>meant</EM> to say better than the author themselves.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ps. I might be rubbish at Monking, but you can see how posh I am at writing. Don't push me too far  - or I shall turn my invective upon all who stand in my way! :smileywink:</DIV>

[prisoner]

<blockquote><hr>annaspider wrote:<DIV>Oi!</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I'm in Zek right now (31 monk, best equipment for my level, attuned, stats raised etc) and I thought I was soloing the single orcs (30-31) pretty well. Then I see a <STRONG>27 </STRONG>Pally with just AQ gear and Starfall slaying the same mobs better than me. Hardly getting hit, dealing out some pretty respectable DPS and healing himself if and when he did get clobbered - all with almost no downtime. What's that about? And why does he avoid hits better than me? :womanmad:</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>ps. This my 2nd level 31 Tank so I know how to play the game reasonably well by now.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>pps My STR is 95 AGI is 94</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>The pally's is 81 and 59</DIV><p>Message Edited by annaspider on <span class=date_text>02-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:59 AM</span><hr></blockquote>Those orcs aren't anything hard. I've seen casters in their high 20's soloing them, and scouts, and a plethora of other classes. Not sure what the big deal here is. If the paladin's life is pretty full at that level, I can almost promise you his power is pretty toast, but he/she probably had some pretty bad [FAAR-NERFED!] drink and allowed them to keep on rockin.

[Ren]

Depending on when you observed this, after the patch, heavy armor got a boost to absorbtion. The agility nerf hurt dodgers like yourself. The paladin could have taken a defensive trait. But most importantly, if he has Tier 4 drink, his power regen would allow him to heal himself and go on fighting. All he has to do is survive the fight. Then the downtime between fights would be low because of the T4 or T5 drink. If he's a provisioner and can make his own drinks, I can see that happening. That's what I'm doing but I'm only making T2 drinks but I'm working my way up. Fast power regen and a good pool of solo mobs is fantastic.

[IceVype]

No need to flipout annaspider If a paladin 4 lvls lower then you soloing better then you it pretty clear you are doing something wrong and should take a closer look at your playing style.

[Krarett]

<DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><FONT size=2>Ok. I can tell that some Lv of some classes make a huge different. For Pld, I felt I was powerful suddenly after ding. eg. Lv 12, 22, 26.6, 28, 32... I could solo vs Orange or single group Green ^^ very good at these Lv. because I got some very nice spells. Most of them are ward or heal, or some very good dmg DD-Dot. In between, I felt very weak, sometime I went to solo some blue only... I felt it happens to some/most classes because I had similar feeling to another chars(Coe & Predator). Yes, I play 3 chars, 1 is Fighter, 1 is Scout and other one is Mage.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><FONT size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><FONT size=2>In your case, I also have experienced with a Lv 28 Pld to my Lv 31 Pld. I wore some very good equipment too. I solo some white crabs beside EL beach. He did same thing as me. He fought a bit longer compare to me but he was OK. I guessed he ate best food in his level and I usually dont eat any food if I solo White/Blue mobs. I thought he got some adept III or Master spells which I couldnt know. Actually, I got a shock a that moment. Also, do you know Starfall is our dream weapon @ Lv 2x ? It was 30g when I saw the first sell from broker.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><FONT size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><FONT size=2>IMO, Mnk is a very strong class when I group with. They always can over-aggro when after half of battle. I agree Mnk is not a crazy instant dmg dealer comparing to Wiz or Assassin. But they are best Dot-er. Also, each fighter has their strengh or weak.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><FONT size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><FONT size=2>1) Guardian = Born to be a main tank. Full def mode but med offence. Cant heal/ward.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=519335206-21022005></SPAN><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><FONT size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><FONT size=2>2) Pld = Good to be main/sub tank. Good def but med-low offence. Can heal/ward and make him or main tank's life last longer. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><FONT size=2>(We have 3 heals + 1 ward. Re-cast time are 6sec, 5min, 30min + 12sec. Cant compare to healer they have 4 different timer heals with short re-cast + spec heal.)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><FONT size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><FONT size=2>3) Shd = Good to be main/sub tank. Good def and med offence. Can ward & life trap. Can help himself life longer.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><FONT size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><FONT size=2>4) Zerker = Good to be main/sub tank. Good offence but med-low def. Cant heal/ward but many group buffs.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><FONT size=2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><FONT size=2>5) Brawlers = Good to be sub tank. Give up most of def and best offence fighter. Can heal himself.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><FONT size=2>Bcoz I dont know the different in between good side and evil side mnk, I group them together.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><FONT size=2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><SPAN class=519335206-21022005><FONT size=2>Most of the classes have their con and pos. No point to compare defence ability between Guardian to Monk. Also non-sense to compare offence in the other way.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></DIV>

[Vigilance Solarfla]

<DIV>Anna,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think you recieved the "Spanish Inquisition" mainly due to the title of the post. Though I understand you where just posting a question regarding your observation. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason you recieved such a responce is mainly due to the fact that many paladins are currently sore about the recent changes from the last patch and in particular to the horse changes. As such, they are sensitive to any posts that might lead to future changes to their class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In this light, I think the timing had much to do with this 'Inquisition' than anything else.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anways I find it rediculous for anyone regardless of their opinions to be 1 stared for stating observations or answering questions. Actually I find the whole rating system to be flawed. Ah well I'm ranting by this point.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Vigilance</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Titali]

<DIV>latest? i think its about time you noticed. maybe now ill get some group invites without having to solo the mobs groups are currently killing, bwahaha. btw, my fluff spell is unbalanced ahahah.</DIV>

[Araknar]

<DIV>1 thing i noticed that wasnt mentioned in the original post and which I think is probably the most important factor here is : You never mention what skill lvls you have (adept1-3 masters etc) and you never asked the paladin what his were. Seems likely to me that he probably had all high skills which are for all classes a massive factor on how well they do things.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another thing not mentioned was time. might seem an odd thing to say but I've seen monks take out stuff same lvl as me in half the time I do (I'm lvl 28 paladin using beriks sword of thunder) though the monk may take more dmg killing the same thing he can kill 2 in the amount of time it takes me to kill 1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just thought these factors needed to be mentioned</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Steelle</DIV> <DIV>Kithicor</DIV>

[Owa]

<DIV>Oh...sorry. All Adept 1  with a couple of App4. </DIV>

[Tag]

<DIV>I saw this pic on another site and just had to post it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://www.stylebug.com/wahmbulance.jpg"></DIV>

[Owa]

<DIV>That's very constructive. Thank you. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Clearly people's criticisms of EQ2 upset, irk or otherwise irritate you and if I've caused offense, my apologies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, I have two questions for you: firstly, what purpose - in your opinion -  do these boards serve? And secondly, why read posts at all?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm rather new to this whole MMORPG genre and any intelligent and informed pointers in forum etiquette would be appreciated.</DIV>

[Titali]

<DIV>my monk friend takes on solo mobs just as well as i can, so i am gonna go out on a limb here and say its probably something you are doing wrong. he cannot however, solo group mobs like i can, but i believe solo mobs are whats in discussion here.</DIV>

[RSZ]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> annaspider wrote:<BR> <DIV>That's very constructive. Thank you. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Clearly people's criticisms of EQ2 upset, irk or otherwise irritate you and if I've caused offense, my apologies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, I have two questions for you: firstly, what purpose - in your opinion -  do these boards serve? And secondly, why read posts at all?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm rather new to this whole MMORPG genre and any intelligent and informed pointers in forum etiquette would be appreciated.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>1.  You seem to have something out for the Paladins, I remember seeing you rallying for horse nerf.  You succeeded, now on to further crusade.</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>2.  You seem to revel in using forums for whining, crying, comparing, petitioning.  Seems forums are something you discovered and you love them.  You got plenty of positive reinforcement from (1)</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>3.  I suggest more game play less forum play.  I suggest not 'inspecting' every player you meet.  I suggest not observing every player you meet and not trying to figure out how many levels separates them from their mobs.</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>4.  I would never make a post that argues to [Removed for Content] another class.  Neither would 95% of the players. You're however are the loathsome minority, and sadly, you can't find a pally ability you'd not want to nerf</FONT></DIV>

[RSZ]

<DIV>One more thing, was grouping with a monk named 'Mass Damage' recently and, true to his name, the dude was outdamaging every single person in group, including wizard (postpatch).  He was having a blast and was proud and boastful.  Fun dude all around.  I can tell you your toon in not named 'Mass Damage'  Your toon is called 'Inspect Otherclass' And neither you nor your groups are having fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't know his gear (don't have a habit of inspecting), I don't know his adepts and heck, I don't know if he can tank well or very well.  What I do know is he kicked [FAAR-NERFED!] (parsed).  More power to him and to every monk out there.</DIV>

[Owa]

<DIV> <DIV>Dear Previous Poster,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.  You seem to have something out for the Paladins, I remember seeing you rallying for horse nerf.  You succeeded, now on to further crusade.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Untrue. I never asked for horse nerf. I  never supported a  horse nerf - quite the opposite in fact. If you want you can actually read my posts and see. In fact, I have never asked for any nerfs in any of my posts. Ever. Read them again or have a friend read them to you, - or, if you have none, ask your Mum..</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV>2.  You seem to revel in using forums for whining, crying, comparing, petitioning.  Seems forums are something you discovered and you love them.  You got plenty of positive reinforcement from (1)</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>I have indeed discovered the joys of posting my opinions and commenting respectfully on those of other players. I'm  appalled by  the lack of civility and general level of comprehension though, and due to posts such as yours am now ceasing to be respecful to certain people. This is my first 'nasty' post and I can see how people enjoy it so.</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV>3.  I suggest more game play less forum play.  I suggest not 'inspecting' every player you meet.  I suggest not observing every player you meet and not trying to figure out how many levels separates them from their mobs.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Who are you to decree what players may and may not do? I suggest that it is in fact <EM>you </EM>who seeks to control people's actions and attitudes,  and if that seems unfair,  see if you can get Mum to read your previous sentence back to you. I merely state my views. Sometimes they are right sometimes they are wrong but thus far i have never tried to insult or bad-mouth another poster.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV>4.  I would never make a post that argues to [Removed for Content] another class.  Neither would 95% of the players. You're however are the loathsome minority, and sadly, you can't find a pally ability you'd not want to nerf</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>I shan't bother to reiterate my postion on 'nerfs' as it seems rather pointless given the wilfull misapprehension of almost every Paladin who posted here. However, I will say that your utter distortion of my writings is the truly loathsome element here  - and, on a side note, after having had to visit the Paladin boards to refute all the posts made by cretins such as yourself I can honestly say that your class appears to have the largest preponderance of self-righteous, arrogant and hysterical posters I have yet had the misfortune to come across.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>No more reasoned debate with the likes of you, sir. You may stick your poxy horse up your xxxx and xxxx off while you're doing it. Are we clear?  Excellent!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>'Bye now, and regards to Mum.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Oh, and if and when you manage to grasp written English, still don't bother to reply. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Annaspider xxx</FONT></DIV></DIV>

[RSZ]

<DIV>Well, you're the first to get reported for abuse by me.  You're quite a character.</DIV>

[Owa]

<DIV>Report away, and whilst you're at it, why not add that, unprovoked,  you referred to  me  as 'loathsome' and characterised me  as 'whining, crying, comparing, petitioning' and utterly bent on 'gimping' other classes. Your 'facts' were incorrect and your tone was intentionally insulting. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So don't give it if you can't take it, get your facts straight and better luck next time.</DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV>

[RSZ]

<DIV>Insulting is fine, while <FONT color=#ff0000>"You may stick your poxy horse...."  </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>is way out of bounds.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Grasp the difference.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would also advise you not to use references to anyone's Mom.  It tells me you're somewhere in your teens, those references are common in middle school.  Do not use them publicly as they are extremely inappropriate.</DIV><p>Message Edited by RSZ on <span class=date_text>02-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:13 PM</span>

[Varekai]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> annaspider wrote:<BR> <DIV>Oi!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm in Zek right now (31 monk, best equipment for my level, attuned, stats raised etc) and I thought I was soloing the single orcs (30-31) pretty well. Then I see a <STRONG>27 </STRONG>Pally with just AQ gear and Starfall slaying the same mobs better than me. Hardly getting hit, dealing out some pretty respectable DPS and healing himself if and when he did get clobbered  - all with almost no downtime. What's that about? And why does he avoid hits better than me? :womanmad:</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Annaspider, give me a break.  Calling a nerf on us Paladin's is completely childish.  We've already been beaten with the nerf stick pretty badly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anna, I can't nuke like a wizard..NERF Wizards quick!</DIV> <DIV>Hey, I can't dodge like a scout....NERF Scouts!!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Go play console games with the likes of your other teen brethren, you disgust me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Drazi</DIV> <DIV>Proud Paladin of Kithicor</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Owa]

<DIV>Whereas one would hope that the distinction between <U>Argument</U> and <U>arguments</U> would be more widely understood, it is clear that an exchange of views is possible only between people willing to listen as well as to speak, to comprehend as well  as to espouse. Furthermore, anyone who might mistake my writing for that of a schoolchild is obviously far less familiar with the education system than they should be. Can someone lock this thread please? I'm weary of  dealing with morons. </DIV>

[RSZ]

<DIV>Someone should lock you.  I hope mods will look into completely over-the-top outlandish hatred contained in your posts.</DIV>

[Owa]

<DIV>:womansad:</DIV>

[Dimgroth]

seriously, at least change the title, even if you didnt meant to start yet another crusade against Paladins thats what it sure appears like when you see the post..and now youre lashing out in a very immature mannor and ive reported you as well.

[Owa]

<DIV>Ok kids. You keep reporting. Just have a look at the abuse I had to endure before I finally snapped back.</DIV>

[Ryk]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> annaspider wrote:<BR> <DIV>Oi!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm in Zek right now (31 monk, best equipment for my level, attuned, stats raised etc) and I thought I was soloing the single orcs (30-31) pretty well. Then I see a <STRONG>27 </STRONG>Pally with just AQ gear and Starfall slaying the same mobs better than me. Hardly getting hit, dealing out some pretty respectable DPS and healing himself if and when he did get clobbered  - all with almost no downtime. What's that about? And why does he avoid hits better than me? :womanmad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ps. This my 2nd level 31 Tank so I know how to play the game reasonably well by now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>pps My STR is 95 AGI is 94</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The pally's is 81 and 59</DIV> <P>Message Edited by annaspider on <SPAN class=date_text>02-19-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:59 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>One instance is not enough to base a nerf off of, even if it was spectacular<BR> <p>Message Edited by Rykir on <span class=date_text>02-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:18 PM</span>

[SageMarrow]

<DIV>well look- i had no interest in the horse nerf 0 and im the monkey counterpart the bruiser- and with a full grp - i do tank just fine for the most part- now that doesnt mean that im mr MT- cause im not- but in the absence thereof - im a pretty good replacement cause i do something that most maintanks dont-= i have to survey dungeons- and zones to know what is where when and pop timers cause we bruisers usually play the roll of body guard in a grp - or at least the ones that know how to take back seat do= we have ghetto crowd control as ive seen it put.. so yeah.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>now i will say that soloing is a difficult challenge vs grp mobs or anything grp oriented for that matter - we are basically a scout/fighter hybrid if you wana look at it that way - so those of you that stand on that FIGHTER ARCHETYPE crap like its holy let it go= all classes are not equal and arent meant to be- </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>we were not meant to be MT above or even next to a guardian - that would dull the game beyond comparison if a tank was a tank and a healer was a healer in the same capacity...soe wont say it cause of the whiners who didnt play eq1 and have no concept of what eq is about and continue to voice their opinions without concrete understanding and rather than p.i.s.s. those people or that crowd off and just say hey- you are what you are and if you dont like it CHOOSE ANOTHER CLASS... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but yeah the mitigation of heavy armor is much better and if we get surrounded we take about 2x damage cause our blocks are frontal- and if tanking is that important maybe you should lobby for non positional avoidance- but either way. they want the classes to be interchangeable not quote un qoute different classes with just different spell names... so yeah the mitigation and skills make a difference - but you wont see a scout solo in the same capacity as ANY fighter +</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- so let it go- it is what it is and stop fighting for something that little do you know you really dont want - a guardian w/ light armor and fancy animations aint happening - the classes are built as such to create some level of diversity - and trust me SOE realizes they made a big mistake by not giving more direct descriptions of classes- like soloability = skill= usefulness to a grp etc - im sure they are kicking themselves for it now... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and most of the diehards on the class balance crud are rubbing it in daily -</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Owa]

<DIV>FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT'S HOLY! I WASN'T ASKING FOR A NERF! OMG! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ryk]

<DIV>so what where you asking for?</DIV>

[Owa]

<DIV>I wasn't asking for anything. I merely pointed out what I think most people would admit is an anomaly (27 fighter vs 30+ MOBS as comapared to a 31 fighter  etc etc) and made reference to avoidance classes avoidance not being up to scratch since it was 'balanced'. Surely one of the best ways to make a point about how agility-based classes have been nerfed is to compare with non agility-based classes. This particular instance seemed rermarkable so I remarked upon it. I thought we were allowed to do that. Whilst I'm happy to admit I may be wrong in my views or that the title may have come at a bad time for the equiphiles, I do get peeved when people respond without first reading and comprehending my posts. Or anyone's posts for that matter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway. Can we put this to bed now? I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, but I think there was a hint of overreaction here and all those nasty posts made me sad and say bad things...and what sort of knight in shining armour would do <EM>that </EM>sort of thing to a girl?  :womansad:</DIV>

[Ryk]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> annaspider wrote:<BR> <DIV>I wasn't asking for anything. I merely pointed out what I think most people would admit is an anomaly (27 fighter vs 30+ MOBS as comapared to a 31 fighter  etc etc) and made reference to avoidance classes avoidance not being up to scratch since it was 'balanced'. Surely one of the best ways to make a point about how agility-based classes have been nerfed is to compare with non agility-based classes. This particular instance seemed rermarkable so I remarked upon it. I thought we were allowed to do that. Whilst I'm happy to admit I may be wrong in my views or that the title may have come at a bad time for the equiphiles, I do get peeved when people respond without first reading and comprehending my posts. Or anyone's posts for that matter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway. Can we put this to bed now? I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, but I think there was a hint of overreaction here and all those nasty posts made me sad and say bad things...and what sort of knight in shining armour would do <EM>that </EM>sort of thing to a girl?  :womansad:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Sorry, but being a Bruiser theres nothing holding me back from dishing out all i got:smileywink: (even thought you are a women). Like i said, no matter how remarkable ONE instance is, it is not enough to base a thread on. Glad you realize that the title was off key and maybe you should adjust it to better reflect your meaning, that way people will not be mislead. </DIV>

[SageMarrow]

<DIV>where did my post imply that you were asking for a nerf?- did you even read my post? hmm probably not == most people dont like my post cause they arent fluffy and dramatic enough as to say - you suck -- or whine or complain and spit actual fact = but hey - whatever</DIV>

[Owa]

<DIV>Not your post...Ryker's when he said 'what were you asking for'.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Uccel]

<blockquote><hr>annaspider wrote:<DIV>FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT'S HOLY! I WASN'T ASKING FOR A NERF! OMG! </div><DIV> </div><DIV> </div><DIV> </div><DIV> </div><hr></blockquote>jesus h. r. puffinstuff people, what he just said there is correct, hes just wondering why they were tanking so well, and we got the answer right away! Wards, heals, and starfall is just crazy damage at that level.Now its just become mudslinging and attacks. I dont get it, one person mistook something another person said, and it just became a snowball effect.I dont know any of you guys, i dont watch your posts, and im sure you guys havent been following any of mine, but for heavens sake, was all this necessary?Eff, that ess.Edit: The waaaahmbulance was [Removed for Content] awesome btw =)<p>Message Edited by Uccello on <span class=date_text>02-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:14 AM</span>

[xrippe]

<DIV>Annaspider wrote:</DIV> <DIV>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV>Bloody hell! I was just asking a question...I wasn't expecting a kind of Spanish Inquisition....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our main weapon is suprise!!  Suprise and fear....</DIV> <DIV>Our TWO weapons are suprise and fear and flashy custumes...</DIV> <DIV>Our THREE WAPONS are...</DIV>

[Socko]

<DIV>To start: There is never a bad time for a Ponty Phython reference, and you just beat me to the punch ;p</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To the topic at hand, however: As a few folks have stated, Anna, The title of the thread is what initially is getting alot of my brethren defensive. However, that does not give them license to INITIATE aggressive language against you and your statements. Only those who want to see someone crying for a nerf actually read your first post that way. I would venture to say that it is fairly clear that you are trying to find out what is making such a vast difference in your solo success compared to that Paladin (the answer to which has already been brought up). Please don't judge paladins based on the defensive/aggressive responses of some posters. They aren't bad people or players, just some of the more recent adjustments to the crusader class haven't sat well within the community.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Receun, 28 Paladin, Najena Server</DIV><p>Message Edited by Socko on <span class=date_text>02-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:27 AM</span>

[Owa]

<DIV>I forgive <U>all</U> Paladins as a result of your charming response :womanhappy:</DIV>

[ghosthamm]

<DIV>this is soo sad. Maybe if you spent more timing playing and refining your skills than posting worthless threads you might tank better.  This thread does nothing to help anyone out, the grass is always greener. I have a monk and a paladin and both have plus/minuses and none better or worse than the other, so please post something useful next time instead of your inferiority complex.</DIV>

[Owa]

<DIV>Read all the posts before commenting and your comments might be more pertinent. </DIV> <DIV>Ps. If you have a Monk and a Pally, how come all your posts are about Paladins?</DIV>

[Truly Devo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> annaspider wrote:<BR> <DIV>Bloody hell! I was just asking a question...I wasn't expecting a kind of Spanish Inquisition....</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>"Nobody <EM>ever</EM> expects the Spanish Inquisition!"</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>:smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*Edit* Bah!   Somebody got it up there quicker.   I hit reply as soon as I saw it too.  :smileysad:</DIV><p>Message Edited by Truly Devout on <span class=date_text>02-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:33 AM</span>

[Socko]

<DIV>Very nice, Devout =) A joke is just as funny the second time in six posts as it was the first ;p</DIV>

[ghosthamm]

<DIV>because I play with my paladin mostly, my alt is a monk and I have a guardian.  I dont have time to troll the boards so I try and stick to the class I play the most.  Good to see you have allot of free time though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Why would I want to read through all the crap on a thread that shouldn't have been there in the first place. The message was for you and you alone, I dont care what everyone else thought and didn't care to read thier responses...I'll PM you next time.</DIV>

[Karlen]

>>>at lvl 27 paladins dps is crap compared to a monk's dps of the same level. we dont even have Oath strike (250dd with dot) which is a lvl 28 spell. as far as healing we're lucky we are healing around the 200s and warding around 150-200.<<<A lot depends on whether you upgrade your spells.My level 26 paladin wards for 284 (adept 3) and heals for around 350-360 with blessed aid (adept 3). I just got a new heal that heals for around 450. That doesn't include Lay on Hands which I have never used but I think does a nice heal. Soloing, I almost never use heals because most hits don't get through my ward, and I can usually recast my ward before it runs out.So if you are only healing in the 200s, maybe you need to upgrade your heal spell. I am pretty sure that, even at App III, my ward worked for at least 190.Can't really comment on how my dps compares to a monk since I don't group much and don't know any monks.

[Owa]

<DIV>The reason for reading through the entire thread is to see the progression as the original post is discussed and re-examined and augmented (and I use these terms euphemistically). In this particular case you can see that I responded to various other posters' comments and endeavoured to expand upon my original point precisely to prevent the type of misapphrehension under which you are currently labouring. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[MoonglumHMV]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xripperx wrote:<BR> <DIV>Annaspider wrote:</DIV> <DIV>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV>Bloody hell! I was just asking a question...I wasn't expecting a kind of Spanish Inquisition....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our main weapon is suprise!!  Suprise and fear....</DIV> <DIV>Our TWO weapons are suprise and fear and flashy custumes...</DIV> <DIV>Our THREE WAPONS are...</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>OMG..!!! ROFL..!!!<BR>

[Telnu]

<DIV>I'm just basking in all of the press time we get in the Monk forums.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The attention is flattering, really.  :smileyindifferent:</DIV>