Make monks exempt from agil nerf

[Roh]

The way i see it is monks already had a hard time "tanking" as were are supposed to be able to do. I think making monks exempt from the agil nerf is the answer as monks rely on there agilty to tank. lets face it, our armor is paper and for us to take more hits is just nonsense. we are supposed to be tanks, but anyone that uses a monk as a tank in a group is just plain nuts. our plate wearing brohers do it much better than we do. Since we are supposed to be agility based tanks and we were already having a difficult time tanking as compared to our other brothers, i think that monks or the brwalers classes in general, should be exempt from any agility nerf. Or at least at a lesser nerf than other classes. The whole purpose of this nerf as i understand it was to prevent or stop the way other classes were avoiding damage by having a high agility. other classes get tradeoffs to compensate, ie higher defense thru armor, or higher dps, and thats fine. This should be the tradeoff to being a monk and wearing light ar.

[Junaru]

Well sadly I just thing SOE took the agi nerf a little to far.. I think it needs to be 1/2 of what they did for ALL classes. Scout need to evade/parry just as we do. Without it they can't solo and if they get aggro the die to fast..Plain and simple SOE needs to rethink they nerf and come up with another solition to scouts and their 300+ agi..

[Thyr]

<DIV>I couldn't possibly agree more.  The agility nerf went way too far.  I'm seeing it's effects and my agility isn't even over 100.  It should be removed, rethought, re-coded, and tested (for more then 6 days this time).</DIV>

[Lebr]

<DIV>Im 47 monk was in a group in perma and a 43 zerker could tank better than me. Thats just sad SoE </DIV> <DIV>4 levels diff  and i get out tanked  /boggle</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The onlyway i could tank was with attack off all my buffs up and just spam my tuants Oh thats real fun. Im sure they will fix it i just hope its done soon right now i dont even feel like loggin in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>btw my gear is all yellow or better i can solo whites and yellow but im useless in groups. </DIV>

[bonesbro]

Hmm. I'm not seeing the dramatic differences complained about here. I was grouped last night tanking yellow++ mobs in a group of four (dirge, defiler, conjuror) and was using an average of a ward and a heal per fight. That's worse than before, but not much. We were pretty overpowered as tanks if we had agility buffs. With my limited experience since the patch, it seems like we tank just about as well as the other tanks. A typical fight before, with an agility buff, was about two hits a fight; a typical fight against a group++ mob would put me at about 50% life without any healing. That's wrong, balancewise, though it was a ton of fun. Put a troub and fury in my group and we were in "usually get hit" territory tanking against oranges and reds.Those are group++ mobs, though. Fights with large numbers of group mobs were much tougher. If we were fighting somewhere that had a lot of pulls of four or more mobs, I usually asked the group to get a guardian.

[Junaru]

<blockquote><hr>bonesbro wrote:Hmm. I'm not seeing the dramatic differences complained about here. I was grouped last night tanking yellow++ mobs in a group of four (dirge, defiler, conjuror) and was using an average of a ward and a heal per fight. That's worse than before, but not much. We were pretty overpowered as tanks if we had agility buffs. With my limited experience since the patch, it seems like we tank just about as well as the other tanks. A typical fight before, with an agility buff, was about two hits a fight; a typical fight against a group++ mob would put me at about 50% life without any healing. That's wrong, balancewise, though it was a ton of fun. Put a troub and fury in my group and we were in "usually get hit" territory tanking against oranges and reds.Those are group++ mobs, though. Fights with large numbers of group mobs were much tougher. If we were fighting somewhere that had a lot of pulls of four or more mobs, I usually asked the group to get a guardian.<hr></blockquote>Whay level are you. If you are between 20 and 27 the deflection bug is the reson you can still tanks..

[Lebr]

<DIV>Im saying a 43 zerker could tank better ie less healing = better for a group i can tank but it runs healers LoP who do you think a group rather have?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That group in Perma was a 42 mystic 45 inq 43 zerker 44 brigand and  a 45 chanter</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Me being 4 levels higher than the zerker is what bothers me i should beable to out tank anyone 4 levels lower.</DIV> <DIV>Somthings messed up thats all i know.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Lebru1 on <span class=date_text>02-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:31 AM</span>

[Coter]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that making monks immune to the agi change isn't the solution, if it's even a problem, like I've said in other posts, I've not seen a difference at all. Either way though, if there was a change that has extremely detrimented monks tanking ability, making monks immune to it isn't the answer because then monks would become the prefered tanks bar none, relegating the other tanking classes into a useless state.If, and I do mean IF there is a situation here, I think the answer would be to modify the deflection calculations of monks to put us in line to where we should be, not necessarily where we were.

[Junaru]

<blockquote><hr>Coterei wrote:I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that making monks immune to the agi change isn't the solution, if it's even a problem, like I've said in other posts, I've not seen a difference at all. Either way though, if there was a change that has extremely detrimented monks tanking ability, making monks immune to it isn't the answer because then monks would become the prefered tanks bar none, relegating the other tanking classes into a useless state.If, and I do mean IF there is a situation here, I think the answer would be to modify the deflection calculations of monks to put us in line to where we should be, not necessarily where we were.<hr></blockquote>And like I have said in 5 or 6 threads now (including this one) you don't notice it cause your deflection skill is ALLOT higher then it should be for your level. At L19 I couldn't solo and orange SOLO mob.. At 20 I solo green^^ scarecrows and only get hit 3 times per fight.. WHY? cause my deflection is 139/100 or 141/100 (can't remember the number)..This same crapp happen to the mages.. All the 40+ mages kept saying how broken they were and all the 20 to 37 mages chimed in saying they were fine. Now look all those 20 to 37 mages are 40+ now and crying..If you are between 20 and 27 you can tank fine.. As a matter of fact at level 20 you can out tank ANY class and will have atleast 400AC more then even the best plate class. It's a BUG and should be fixed. When you hit 28 let me know how well you tank and if SOE doesn't fix the problem don't come back here crying to be fixed..

[Thyr]

<DIV>There is a problem.  The problem is that they overdid the agility nerf.  The patch notes specifically say that it was aimed at reducing the impact of huge agility buffs/debuffs.  When my monk with NO agility buffs and 83 agility starts suddenly taking 2X+ the damage that I took the day before the patch, fighting exactly the same way, using the exactly the same arts, and on exactly the same mobs, there is a problem.  I get hit way more often and for way more damage then I ever used to and it's rendered me completely useless as a tank in the early 20's.  When an Avoidance tank can't avoid getting hit, they can't tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Admittedly, maybe making us immune to the agility nerf may not be the best answer.  But a corresponding boost in the effectiveness of our damage avoidance skills (parry/dodge/deflection etc) to offset the fact that our agility is now pointless certainly wouldn't be out of line.  We're a TANK class.  If we can't tank any better then the scouts than what's the point??</DIV>

[bmcd]

<DIV>Junaru, I am 30 and have no problems taking hits tanking or solo.  It is about the same as before this last patch.</DIV>

[Viiroz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Junaru wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> bonesbro wrote:<BR>Hmm. I'm not seeing the dramatic differences complained about here. I was grouped last night tanking yellow++ mobs in a group of four (dirge, defiler, conjuror) and was using an average of a ward and a heal per fight. That's worse than before, but not much. We were pretty overpowered as tanks if we had agility buffs. With my limited experience since the patch, it seems like we tank just about as well as the other tanks. A typical fight before, with an agility buff, was about two hits a fight; a typical fight against a group++ mob would put me at about 50% life without any healing. That's wrong, balancewise, though it was a ton of fun. Put a troub and fury in my group and we were in "usually get hit" territory tanking against oranges and reds.<BR><BR>Those are group++ mobs, though. Fights with large numbers of group mobs were much tougher. If we were fighting somewhere that had a lot of pulls of four or more mobs, I usually asked the group to get a guardian.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Whay level are you. If you are between 20 and 27 the deflection bug is the reson you can still tanks..<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>The deflection bug was fixed some time ago friend.  Just FYI</FONT></DIV>

[Junaru]

<blockquote><hr>bmcdsm wrote:<DIV>Junaru, I am 30 and have no problems taking hits tanking or solo. It is about the same as before this last patch.</DIV><hr></blockquote>You are a rare one then.. since there is a 3 page thread about this very problem in the "Spells, Abilities, and Combat Arts" forum.. And the worst part about this is SOE stated it should only effect people with 150+ agi.. I'm not where near 150 and at level 19 I noticed a huge different on SOLO mobs.. At 20 I can't say much about it since my deflection is way to high for my level and I never get him now..

[Junaru]

<blockquote><hr>Viiroz wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Junaru wrote:<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>bonesbro wrote:<BR>Hmm. I'm not seeing the dramatic differences complained about here. I was grouped last night tanking yellow++ mobs in a group of four (dirge, defiler, conjuror) and was using an average of a ward and a heal per fight. That's worse than before, but not much. We were pretty overpowered as tanks if we had agility buffs. With my limited experience since the patch, it seems like we tank just about as well as the other tanks. A typical fight before, with an agility buff, was about two hits a fight; a typical fight against a group++ mob would put me at about 50% life without any healing. That's wrong, balancewise, though it was a ton of fun. Put a troub and fury in my group and we were in "usually get hit" territory tanking against oranges and reds.<BR><BR>Those are group++ mobs, though. Fights with large numbers of group mobs were much tougher. If we were fighting somewhere that had a lot of pulls of four or more mobs, I usually asked the group to get a guardian.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Whay level are you. If you are between 20 and 27 the deflection bug is the reson you can still tanks..<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV>The deflection bug was fixed some time ago friend. Just FYI</FONT></DIV><hr></blockquote>No it hasn't.. I looked at it lastnight and to prove you wrong I'll screen shot it tonight and post it.. Believe me I went from a 1505AC with 54agi at level 19 to 2400+AC 59agi at level 20.. 900AC+ from one level.. Get for real..

[Viiroz]

<DIV>You are right [FaarNerfed!] I must have been dreaming when I looked.  Could have sworn in the Jan 6th update they did.  I just looked though my level 26 Monk as 139/131 Deflection.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My appologies.</DIV>

[Junaru]

<blockquote><hr>Viiroz wrote:<DIV>You are right [FaarNerfed!] I must have been dreaming when I looked. Could have sworn in the Jan 6th update they did. I just looked though my level 26 Monk as 139/131 Deflection.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>My appologies.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Not a problem.. I only knew cause when my AC when up 900 point I wanted to know why.. Like I said before at level 28 you deflection should be where it was meant to be and you will no longer have an advantage but Monks between 20 and 27 have a higher deflection then they should and these aren't seeing the problems that someone below 20 and above 27 are..

[bonesbro]

<DIV>Junaru: I'm 35.  I definitely noticed that I wasn't tanking as well as I did pre-patch, but I felt that we were significantly overpowered before.  That you think you are tanking poorly is perhaps because you were unaware of how capable everyone else has always been at tanking.</DIV>