dual vs 2HB

[mja1983]

just wondering what peoples reasons are for using either or seems to me 2HB is better as it does more damage so will get more through on mitigating mobs and if haste works as a percent like many people say there longer delay will lead to more effect, also think the animations are cooli guess youd get more stats witht he 2 weapons but such small amounts i dont think make a big diffi read before dual was just about half the damage of a similar 2-hander so i figure its more of a preference from my experience this seems trueanyone know of something im missing?what do most people use?'wondering if having twice as many things with which to parry has any effect on that also, btu i doubt it

[SuperBob2]

<DIV>Dual weilding isnt half the damage as 2hb, unless youre only using 1 wep. If youre dual weilding you should be doing about the same or more damage than with a 2HB, b/c with dual youre hitting twice as much, and you get the stat bonus from both weapons, so I personally think its better to dual weild. Right now I cant dual b/c I just hit 20 and am using the Makato Bo. Just curious, does anyone know some good dual weilds to get at lvl 20?</DIV>

[Nt]

<DIV>I have said it about a million times but once more...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Firwood Fighting Batons</DIV> <DIV>dropped off Rotting Pioneer near the Antonica Gate</DIV> <DIV>Gives +5 agi +3 str, 1.5 delay  4-10 base damage master at 125 hammer skill</DIV>

[SuperBob2]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ntuk wrote:<BR> <DIV>I have said it about a million times but once more...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Firwood Fighting Batons</DIV> <DIV>dropped off Rotting Pioneer near the Antonica Gate</DIV> <DIV>Gives +5 agi +3 str, 1.5 delay  4-10 base damage master at 125 hammer skill</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Heh, sorry about that man. Anyways thanks, those sound really nice. Are the mobs soloable at 20, or should I get a group for this? Well, the parents are out of town, so....I should have plenty of time to try and get these :smileyhappy:

[Cyngii]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SuperBob2k4 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ntuk wrote:<BR> <DIV>I have said it about a million times but once more...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Firwood Fighting Batons</DIV> <DIV>dropped off Rotting Pioneer near the Antonica Gate</DIV> <DIV>Gives +5 agi +3 str, 1.5 delay  4-10 base damage master at 125 hammer skill</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Heh, sorry about that man. Anyways thanks, those sound really nice. Are the mobs soloable at 20, or should I get a group for this? Well, the parents are out of town, so....I should have plenty of time to try and get these :smileyhappy:<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Seeing as this is a Thundering Steppes (i believe) named mob, I would assume he is worthy of a solid group.  If you tried to solo him at 20 you might get one rounded <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Nt]

<DIV>Yeah you would need a full group.  If you are tanking maybe two healers as he also has three other zombies with him.  Saw a 23 paladin fall in two seconds to him.  I had to hold him off, needless to say it was completely terrfying!  He died just about the same time I did! GRRRR well at least I have my batons.</DIV>

[Manu]

Actually check the black market broker in QH for dual wield. It seems some nice ones drop in FP and I got them very cheap (60s each): Ebon Qstaff.Here are the pb/advantages of dual wield compared to 2HB:- Riposte (Player). This is an extra hit. I believe the advantage here goes to 2HB as higher dmg per hit.- Riposte (NPC). Again advantage to 2HB, the less the mob ripostes the better it is. 2HB = less swings.- Proc. If you have something that procs, Dual Wield is much much better.- Stats. Though I believe they try to make 2HB, twice as much stats as 2 * Dual wield, at my level Dual wield yields more stat- Regularity. 2HB is more disparate (as you swing less). DW winsIn total, I believe they balanced both quite well. It's really depending what fighting style animations you prefer <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Hu]

Back to question:I use 2HB cause i believe that the less i hit, the less i get riposted...yeah, i still consider myself being a tank, so i tank in groups <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.Saying that dw deals more dam needs to be proved. You do not hit with your main for 100percent (meaning not every swing does actually hit the target), and your off will be checked as well. I dont have any clue about hard numbers tho. That said, 2 hands being checked on a successfull hit may end up with a worse result, than just one.Anyway, i dont know what does more dam, still i´ll wait till some of those parser dudes come up and show some results <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.Just my 2cp

[KeenaMoonphy]

<DIV>Not to change the subject, but my DW skill is capped at 35. Any ideas on why? How does this cap play into DWing? Im currently level 29. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edited to add level :smileywink:</DIV><p>Message Edited by KeenaMoonphyre on <span class=date_text>12-21-2004</span> <span class=time_text>07:14 AM</span>

[Hu]

Lol, i tried to stop the derail of the topic, now you come up...jk <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kwonryu_DragonFi]

<DIV>Why not get both? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Use 2H against heavy meleemobs that riposte alot and Dual wield against caster mobs you need to interrupt more. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Xanrn]

<DIV>No.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nothing but High End mobs risposte enough to actually warrant using 2handed. lvl 50+ in EQ is what I am talking about. I tanked the Avatar of War in Kael Drakaal no worries with dual wield.</DIV> <DIV>Planar mobs were the only ones really. Yeah so sometime I had to stop attack when they used that automatic risposte every frontal attack art, but becaue I had been using 2 weapons with hate or stun procs was no trouble keeping aggro. I would have had to stop with 2 hander aswell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dual Wield = More Hits = More Aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rispote does NOT = automatic hit. You can block/dodge/parry or it can miss.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its about personnal choice and watching your combat spam.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yeah try and carry 2 1 handers and a 2 hander.</DIV>

[mja1983]

why is dual better against caster, if the weapons are half a 2hb and you got 2 isnt that just the same as a 2hander really i always here people saying this but it seems completly unfounded in my eyesand we aint playing eq1 so what the hell do planar mobs have to do with anything~

[WackyDakky]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mja1983ca wrote:<BR>why is dual better against caster, if the weapons are half a 2hb and you got 2 isnt that just the same as a 2hander really <BR>i always here people saying this but it seems completly unfounded in my eyes<BR><BR>and we aint playing eq1 so what the hell do planar mobs have to do with anything~<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>It's not unfounded.  Play a caster and see how well you cast in melee with a mob beating on you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dual wield weapons are good at interrupting casters, but I wouldn't say they're the best.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I carry a heavy skullsprainer and two dual wield ebon eye maces to use.  2h weapons seem better at fighting things higher level than you (helps get past damage mitigation) and dual wield are great for even or lower cons.  I do a lot more DPS with my heavy skullsprainer than I do with my maces, although the maces give better stats.  I use the maces when I want extra aggro or the agi/str from them.  Normally my weapon of choice is the skullsprainer, though.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While it's an ungodly slow weapon, it was well worth the 25s I paid on the black market for it.  My damage range is around 50-156 at 3.7, which seems slow but when you figure in special attacks it's really not bad.  I average around 120 a hit with highs usually around 148.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My maces on the other hand are 1.8 at 17-45, which seem to average around 22 a hit with a range of 11-38.  Unfortunately even with two great rounds (to reach 3.6, close to the delay of the skullsprainer) that's only around 150 damage.  That's around the same max as the skullsprainer, but with the dual weapons you have to assume that you do around the max damage and hit all 4 times.  The skullsprainer doesn't hit for less than 80 usually, so average damage seems higher too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, just my observations.</DIV>

[Ala]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SuperBob2k4 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ntuk wrote:<BR> <DIV>I have said it about a million times but once more...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Firwood Fighting Batons</DIV> <DIV>dropped off Rotting Pioneer near the Antonica Gate</DIV> <DIV>Gives +5 agi +3 str, 1.5 delay  4-10 base damage master at 125 hammer skill</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Heh, sorry about that man. Anyways thanks, those sound really nice. Are the mobs soloable at 20, or should I get a group for this? Well, the parents are out of town, so....I should have plenty of time to try and get these :smileyhappy:<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Don't be sorry first time I've seen that too.  You can't expect to see every post.  </DIV>

[Ala]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Huca wrote:<BR>Back to question:<BR><BR>I use 2HB cause i believe that the less i hit, the less i get riposted...yeah, i still consider myself being a tank, so i tank in groups <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.<BR><BR>Saying that dw deals more dam needs to be proved. You do not hit with your main for 100percent (meaning not every swing does actually hit the target), and your off will be checked as well. I dont have any clue about hard numbers tho. That said, 2 hands being checked on a successfull hit may end up with a worse result, than just one.<BR><BR>Anyway, i dont know what does more dam, still i´ll wait till some of those parser dudes come up and show some results <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.<BR><BR>Just my 2cp<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>I did some parsing with a Monk 1 level less than me using a duel wield I was using 2H.  His DPS was, on average, at least 5 points more than mine.  </P> <P>Of course, there are other factors ( a lot of them) but I'm looking for better statistical data on this. I'm gonna get some DW and level out all variables to see the differnece.</P>

[Manu]

Keena,DW skill level has no importance. It's just there to mention that you can dual wield. The skill used is crushing if you're using crushing wpns, slash for slash weapons, etc...

[Bouncer Mac]

<DIV>Real quick comment, riposte does not depend on what weapon you are using. You will riposte for the same dmg if you are using fist, 2h, dual wield, 1h</DIV>

[Dooy]

<DIV>Just some notes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To compare a DW setup with a 2hd setup it is pretty easy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1st take the stats on the 2hd, the delay, and the damage in green.  Say the Makoto Bo  which is Delay 1.7 and damage of (I think off hand correct me if I am wrong) 23-53 at lvl 25.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now take the DW set up, average out the delay, because with DW you always swing both weapons at the same time at the average of the 2 weapons speeds.  Now add the green numbers of min/max damage.  Compare to the 2hd.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now the problems with this is mechanics of the game.  To get a more accurate range for you DW set up you should take the lowest min damage instead of both of them.  Because you will miss and get defended on 1 of the hits some times.  But, when riposte, dodge, block and parry come into play, the DW will out perform the 2hb.  Because when the mob successfully stops your 2hb, then that is it.  But when he does it to your DW combo, you still have the chance of landing 1 of your attacks.  So potentially your DW combo will outdamage your 2hb in the long run.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, if the game was up I could check the DW set up I have, just picked it up last night so can not remember the numbers off the top of my head.  They were identical in Dam/delay of the Bo staff, but you ended up getting more stats off them.  And yes, stats do help, every little bit helps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for why use a DW combo, like someone said, every hit has a chance to stun the mob, the more hits = a more stunned caster mob.</DIV>

[Hu]

<DIV>"Dual Wield = More Hits = More Aggro"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This rumor has been proven wrong uncountable times on the "steelwarrior" forum in EQ1, and i´d bet a kingdom that its still wrong in EQ2.</DIV>

[Dagrean]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Huca wrote:<BR> <DIV>"Dual Wield = More Hits = More Aggro"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This rumor has been proven wrong uncountable times on the "steelwarrior" forum in EQ1, and i´d bet a kingdom that its still wrong in EQ2.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Your right. It's :"Dual wield = more Swings = more agrro" in EQ1. Why? For melee weapons, every swing generates thesame amount of aggro regardless of whether it's a hit or miss.. Thats Why no warrior in his right Mind would use a shield and sword setup. they don't swing near enough. the Only reason it works for paladins is because they have spells to fall back on. </P> <P>The situation May be the same For EQ2 or not. Regardless, I would bet that Dual wield weapons tend to generate more aggro, because they tend to produce more hits per second ( 2x more if the average delay is the same) thus making them generate Faster aggro, if not more. The same could be said for the reason dual wield weapons are pbetter for procs, as they would proc more often? (I doubt this too, it tends to be a certain number of procs per unit time, not a chance of proc per swing) </P> <P>So in the end, I would say, use the best weapon you can find, What works for you the best, until we have the data to back one theory or another up, And we have all the rescources to get whatever we want.<BR></P>

[mja1983]

agro from weapons is kinda meaningless as far as i have found, not once have i ever had trouble holding agro with a shander and the taunts we get so i think this dual weild agro crap is kind of a moot point anywaysps sometimes when the ignorant tanks tell me im a dps and i go for that the crapy tank they come up with cant hold agro over me with just using a 2 hander so if the dual agro thing is true might be a negative anywyas;ptanking is to much work and im lazy~

[Manu]

Ohhh i did not know that riposte was independent of the wpn type! Thanks for the info.The point of this thread is just to draw a picture of each style strengths&weaknesses.

[Cora]

<DIV>I always thought DW suxxored, then I got some 1.5 delay batons cause Makato bo went green.. been DWing ever since, got 2 34 DWers ready to use when I ding...</DIV>

[Varg_MM]

Frankly I've only seen two compelling arguments.If you have proc buffs up - use DW. More swings = more proc chances = more dps.If you're tanking heavy reds - use 2hd. Less swings = less chance the RNG will flake out and insta-kill you.In any other situation iit doesn't really matter.

[Hu]

Copied from Moorgard interview:"The way dual wield weapons work in our game is quite different from how the skill functions in EverQuest. Basically a dual-wield weapon does 50% of the damage of a two-handed weapon of the same quality. There is no off-hand delay; dual-wield weapons swing based on the delay of the weapon itself. Neither hand is more likely to hit than the other, nor is there a main-hand bonus.Dual wield weapons allow you to swing more often and therefore proc effects more; however, they also increase the opportunities for an opponent to riposte you. And remember, weapon type does not affect your combat arts in any way."

[asteldian]

<DIV>Hmm, people have done tests and seen 2hers cause procs just as often as DW, in fact people have been claiming that procs occur more with 2her</DIV>

[Select]

<DIV>Ive been a duel weild fanatic since I could use it, but recently I aquired a heirophants crook(2hb). This will be the last 2hb you will need to 50.  I MT with it, I assist with it. If you are a monk Id suggest getting it asap. It procs like a madman and the proc is aoe, so if you MT, you now have aoe taunt and an aoe dmg proc to raise and keep aggro. After aquiring thing I dont think Ill really have any need to use duel weild again, unless I find some duelies that can help me keep aggro just as good, but as of yet I havent found any =)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rauko Dae</DIV> <DIV>43 wood elf monk</DIV> <DIV>Paradox</DIV> <DIV>Faydark </DIV>