Did some quick tests with a round shield.

[Blaze]

Made a few discoveries.1. having a shield equiped in your off hand does not effect your damage at all when using bare fists. So if you like to punch stuff there is no reason not to have one.2. My bare fists do almost as much damage as makotos staff at level 22. Makotos staff did 5-10% more damage max. Pretty insignicficant.3. The shield gave me almost 100 more AC. Quite a boost4. It looks very dorky and unmonk like. Guess there have to be some drawbacks.I havent trying tankin in a group situation with a shield yet, but I will try it today.

[Bouncer Mac]

<DIV>Did you actually check the difference in DPS between the makoto staff and bare fists because I know that bare fist does MORE dmg than makoto staff when not considering delay (hit per hit), I've never did any testing between the two to see which has more dps however. Be sure to check dmg with fist before using a shield and after. If it's the same then this must be a bug. </DIV>

[Zadkiel3]

<blockquote><hr>Bouncer Macha wrote:<DIV>Be sure to check dmg with fist before using a shield and after. If it's the same then this must be a bug. </DIV><hr></blockquote>No bug. The game considers your bare fist to be a 1-handed weapon. Put a dual-wield slashing weapon (such as a cestus) in your off-hand with bare fist in primary, and you will never see a slashing attack made, because if your primary is bare fist, then you are not using secondary.So adding a shield will not affect bare fist damage.Zadkiel

[Gaige]

<DIV>Moorgard has stated 100x to not go bare fisted, weapons are better.</DIV>

[Yinmaren]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR> <DIV>Moorgard has stated 100x to not go bare fisted, weapons are better.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Yes, but he has also stated lots of things that aren't true. I believe for defensive purposes, a fist/shield combo works best. You get the 2handed DPS but with a shield.</DIV>

[Blaze]

Exactly, when you are tanking the fist shield combo cant be beat. (even though it looks pretty uncool) 100 more AC is alot for a monk.And since most of our damage comes from our CAs anyway, little less melee damage is nothing to worry about.

[D`Jani]

<DIV>put aside all this DPS, stats, AC, etc etc etc</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Have you EVER seen a monk with a shield?  its ridiculus....</DIV>

[Bouncer Mac]

<DIV>I guess I wasn't clear in what I was saying. With the fist dmg being comparable to a 2h weapon, it should be reduced when using a shield otherwise you're using a shield while using a 2h weapon at the same time (as stated already). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Monks with shields? It depends what kind of monks you're talkin about. You may need think monks use weapons but take a look at the shaolin monks. Not only do they use blunt weapons, but many types of slashing weapons as well. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://www.kerals.com/kerala/kalari.htm" target=_blank>http://www.kerals.com/kerala/kalari.htm</A> In that link (although in broken english), you can see pictures of martial artists using shields and although they are no monks, their style came from a backround from the shaolin monastery. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Quick note, I don't claim to be an expert or even an amateur in this area. I just simply searched monk and shield on google :smileytongue:. </DIV>

[Jezekie]

<blockquote><hr>Bouncer Macha wrote:<DIV>I guess I wasn't clear in what I was saying. With the fist dmg being comparable to a 2h weapon</DIV><hr></blockquote>It doesn't matter what it's comparable too though, it counts as a one-handed weapon in terms of how it functions.

[Maendark187]

<DIV>Don't overestimate a paltry 100 ac</DIV>

[RadricTyc]

<DIV>For most monks at level 20-23ish 100 AC is a 15% improvement in defense.  I would not call this "paltry".  For higher levels I would refer you to this item with the note that things can only get better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/item.vm?itemId=10476" target=_blank>Round Shield of Malevolence</a></DIV>

[RadricTyc]

<DIV>Oh, and as far as going bare-fisted or not, I would say that if you need the stats from your one-handed weapon (ie. str, agil, resistances, etc.) then definitely wield it, especially if it has agility since you will need that for your damage avoidance.  However if it's the choice between a weapon with no stats or bare-fisted, most likely bare-fisted will give you better damage output.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My feeling is that if you are donning a shield for protection in order to tank, your first goal is not damage, its avoiding damage.  So do what makes sense to maximize damage avoidance first and doing damage second.  Clearly for soloing, you might need to refine that idea and come up with a good compromise, but for tanking for a group, I think I am correct.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cheers.</DIV>

[asteldian]

<DIV>Using a shield just doesnt look good for monk-there should be an option to turn its graphic off like with helmets</DIV>

[Maendark187]

<DIV>I'd like to see some nice parses of armor class.  I bet you'd see the 100ac of any shield well within the margin of error.  Does AC even block special attacks or is that still "bugged"?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Musashi-]

I use a Sheild and Bare fist all the time when I Tank. I like wearing the shield around town because it looks like a Rikshaw(sp) hat! I have been using a shield for around a month and if you want to tank use a shield just like all the other Fighter classes. My AC at level 25 with Quest armour, PC made jewelry and a Pristine Ash Round Shield is around 1017. My attack is 437.

[bonesbro]

That's strange. You get AC from a shield? I was under the impression that shields didn't add AC, but just added a chance to block attacks. That's what the Shield Factor rating is, how often you block. Having a shield gives you a chance to Block an incoming attack completely. Of course we can already block without a shield, but I wonder if they're two different things but use the same text.

[Hecklerko]

<DIV>Yes you get the AC stated on the shield. I for one could care less how dorky it looks, actually imho it doesn't, ever seen folks doing weapons demos with sword and shield, I have been using the fist/shield combo since L16. Only time I switch is if I'm drawing aggro off MT and on occasion when I want to see snazzier graphics with dual combo or Maks Bo. I did all my 20 Armor quests with another monk, he gave me a hard time a ton because I had the fist-shield combo (he was using Maks Bo), and, on more than one occasion, would say "please switch to bo this next mob is tough". Finally I decided to do a test, unscientific possibly but fun to try. We pulled a flat white neutral, used no skills or HOs and certainly no taunt, and began swinging away. Often he'd start getting the aggo in first 10% of battle, I'd starting getting it after that and he didn't catch up until mob was almost dead.  Again, not very scientific but it did solve one problem - he never bugged me again to switch weaps even on ShadowDash <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Jezekie]

Not all shields have an AC modifier, some only have a Shield Factor. Unless this has been changed since beta.The shield factor helps blocking attacks.<blockquote><hr>Patherpanchali wrote:Shields have a chance to block incoming attacks, similar to the deflection skill for brawlers. Brawlers wielding shields get both a deflect and shield block roll. The chance to deflect an incoming attack depend on the level of the attack vs the wielders skill in the appropriate shield line, the class of shield (buckler, round, kite, tower) and the "rarity" (sometimes called "tier") of the shield. Bucklers offer low blocking percentages, round shields somewhat higher, it takes a kite or tower shield to block with significant regularity. You really want a common crafted or better quality shield, the store bought and common complete drops are not as reliable at blocking..<hr></blockquote><blockquote><hr>Patherpanchali wrote:Comparing different shields by their armor value is valid, but the armor class appearing the character profile is simply a conglomerate number for your own reference, it is never used directly in any mechanic.<hr></blockquote><p>Message Edited by Jezekiell on <span class=date_text>12-11-2004</span> <span class=time_text>05:05 PM</span>

[Auhal]

<blockquote><hr>Bouncer Macha wrote:<DIV>I guess I wasn't clear in what I was saying. With the fist dmg being comparable to a 2h weapon, it should be reduced when using a shield otherwise you're using a shield while using a 2h weapon at the same time (as stated already). </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Monks with shields? It depends what kind of monks you're talkin about. You may need think monks use weapons but take a look at the shaolin monks. Not only do they use blunt weapons, but many types of slashing weapons as well. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV><A href="http://www.kerals.com/kerala/kalari.htm" target=_blank>http://www.kerals.com/kerala/kalari.htm</A> In that link (although in broken english), you can see pictures of martial artists using shields and although they are no monks, their style came from a backround from the shaolin monastery. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Quick note, I don't claim to be an expert or even an amateur in this area. I just simply searched monk and shield on google :smileytongue:. </DIV><hr></blockquote>That looks cool! I want to do it!