Who said Monks could do alot of damage???

[Abi]

hi,As it comes to monks ,alot of people tell you "Monks cant tank, but they are Damage Dealers". That can only be a rumor, since if I compare the Monk damage to the "real" DDs they cant tank and not even dish out some damage.I play a 16 Brawler and a 20 Ranger.So i am able to compare those. (Every skill at APP III)At level 16 my Ranger could make the following:-Main Weapons: equal to the monk-Sneak Attack: Around 50dmg-Backshot : 70-120 dmg-Ambush: around 50 dmg-Shadowblade: 70-170 dmg-Bleed: DoT around 50 dmg-Quick Strike: Around 30ish dmgIn a normal fight the predator can make always one of those special attacks.Now the Brawler:-Main Weapons: equal to the predator-Kick: around 35dmg-KickII: around 40dmg-Assault: around (15*number of mobs)-Shoulder Charge: around 30-Powerstrike: around 30 dmg-Wild Swing: around 30ish dmgIn a normal Fight the monk can make always one of those special attacks.So saying "well the monk cant tank but dish out alot of damage" is simply stupid. He cant dish out alot of damage.If a Ranger/Assasin, Rogue/Swashbuckler even Bard/Dirge is compared to a Monk/Brawler, he looses big time!Now you say: Well you compared Brawler vs Pred , well thats right but i cant imagine that there are so much differences at 20+.My Ranger does incredible Damage now at 20, and can do some 230+ Hits, I dont expect a monk to dish out those big numbers.Well just some thoughts about the Monk.bye (Sorry for my bad english <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )

[Yinmaren]

<DIV>The main difference between a scout and a fighter: Defense. What one lacks in defense, they make up for in DPS. Compared to the other fighters, a monk has very nice DPS. At 20, my monk can usually hit four times for 20 before a mob hits me once. Doubled with my defensive abilities and a berserker friend, we can kill yellow grouped mobs and have about 10 seconds downtime before killing another.</DIV>

[io]

My friend you are testing a Brawler,wait till you be a Monk <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[tkemo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ioto wrote:<BR>My friend you are testing a Brawler,wait till you be a Monk <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>I was thinking the same thing, PLUS you are comparing toons that are three levels apart.</P> <P>I have several attacks at level 20 that do in the 80 - 120 range (e.g. Bruising Strike)</P>

[psubull]

<DIV>Eh, the thing is, neither monks nor bruisers were meant to compare to scouts in DPS.  Bruiser do slightly more damage so far (to 30) than monks do, but yes, your observation is correct, the predator does more damage than the brawler </DIV>

[psubull]

<DIV>Eh, the thing is, neither monks nor bruisers were meant to compare to scouts in DPS.  Bruiser do slightly more damage so far (to 30) than monks do, but yes, your observation is correct, the predator does more damage than the brawler  </DIV>

[Kelendryy]

<DIV>Yeah when you get to 20+ as a Monk you really notice the damage increase.  I hit multiple times in a round and several times hit for well over 100+ damage.  </DIV> <DIV>Perhaps its the weapon your using too..dunno.   </DIV>

[V3g3t]

<DIV>Im lvl 20 monk atm, stuck there cos of enormous debt, but the best special i found is rapid swings, you see 4 numbers fly off from first hit, each one about 20-30 dmg, so thats stacks upto aorund 100 dmg. flying kick and thrust kick seem to vary, soemtimes only about 30, other times, maybe on weaker mobs, upto 65.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i think the basic thing that we have good is our auto attack, its fast and with the makoto Bo, each hit does 15-40 dmg, usually around 30, and does that every 1.7 secs, but i wish the specials were better :/</DIV>

[tkemo]

<DIV>At 21 several times I will get rapid swings all in the 40+ range so up to 160 damage potential from what I have seen and I am a gnome.  I would have to imagine others are seeing even better with more strength.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My Brusing Strike is doing 120+, My Thrust Kick has hit for over 100, so thats three skills that can hit for over 100 in a single round if they are all up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have also noticed that I am duel-wielding a weapon that does 7 - 22 every 1.7 however looking at the damage output I will notice a normal hit doing far in excess of 22 sometimes twice this amount.  I dont know if this is a critical hit or what since there is no event surrounding it and it seems to be random.</DIV>

[mba]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=2> <HR> tkemory wrote:<BR></FONT> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I have also noticed that I am duel-wielding a weapon that does 7 - 22 every 1.7 however looking at the damage output I will notice a normal hit doing far in excess of 22 sometimes twice this amount.  I dont know if this is a critical hit or what since there is no event surrounding it and it seems to be random.</FONT></DIV><BR><FONT size=2> <HR> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=2>I have experinenced the same thing many times while being a brawler (stil am <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />). At level 14 i was dual wielding two maces with 5-15 dam. But several times i got hits in for 40+ damage, even on yellow con's. The logical thing would be that they are just crit's, but some confirmation on this issue would be nice.</FONT><BR> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

[LittleStuart]

<P>A couple of things here; <P>First off, looking at just the damage that the specials do is a bit misleading. An attack that does 100-170 points of damage that recycles every thirty seconds isn't as damaging over time as an attack that does 80-140 points of damage that recycles every 15 seconds. <P>Secondly, you are omitting the fact that to use a lot of those abilities the scout needs to move behind the target. While this is often easy it is not always the case. Sometimes doing this will draw an add or sometimes the area behind the mob will be unreachable because it is either a wall or a drop. While the tank can move to move the mob to a better position it takes time and causes some aggravation for the tank. Monk attacks are usable from any angle. This also translates to much better soloing ability for the monk. <P>Third, you are wrong about your scout doing the same base damage before specials. At level 20 have him swing at a mob without specials while a monk does the same and see who does more damage. If it is the scout then there is probably something wrong with the monks weapon selection. He should probably try using either Makoto's Bo, Boiled Leather Fistwraps, or Ashwood Fighting Batons. <P>Fourthly, monk defense is -way- better than scout defense. Many people, monks included, think we can't tank once we start getting into the 20's. That's not true and I tank frequently. Activating Martial Focus and using Brawler's Stance drastically reduces the number of attacks that hit if the mob is yellow or lower. To help offset the heavier damage on attacks that do strike you should have a Ward placed on you by a shaman. An Intervene on by a backup tank will also help to reduce the damage. While it might seem backwards to do it this way you will probably find that your cleric uses less mana overall keeping the group alive. One word of warning on this though is to remember that your deflection skill only works on mobs in your front arc. If you have to turn to taunt a mob that has aggroed on your healer or a caster then you'll need to move so that you don't have your back to the mobs you were previously engaging. <P>Lastly, and perhaps one of the best ways to show you that your damage estimates for a monk are off, is the fact that frequently in groups I will cause so much damage that the mob will turn and aggro on me. I am not using taunt, shout, taunting slap, or anything else to generate hate beyond the damage that I am doing and this isn't the quick turn that you will get at the start of a combat from a scout attack because the tank hasn't had opportunity to build up enough hate. This will be halfway through the fight, after the scout has been backstabbing and building up his own hate and the mob will still turn and go after me rather than the scout.</P>

[Abi]

Quote: was thinking the same thing, PLUS you are comparing toons that are three levels apart.I have several attacks at level 20 that do in the 80 - 120 range (e.g. Bruising Strike)--------------------------------------------------------------------------------No i did compare both at level 16.

[Abi]

Well guys I think you didnt get my point...I dont want to compare Brawlers dmg to Scouts damage. I know that scouts should have higher DPS then fighters otherwise noone would ever chose a Scout to join your group BUT: If the Brawler can not tank very good, as you hear people all over the boards, there must be a balance for it.

[Sant]

<DIV>I have  a 21st lvl monk and a 14th lvl rogue and I can tell you my rogue does far more damage then my monk did at the same level. Dont forget a rogue gets poison as well as hi damage back blows. They also have alot more HOs to use, I can cycle 3 HOs with my scout in the time it takes my monk to do one HO and even that takes using tuant.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I love the monk class  but the truth is its a middle of the road class in this game, that includes damage and tanking. A monk is first or second in damage for the fighter classes, a berzerker might inch us out Im not sure never having played a bezerker but they arnt even close to what a scout can do. As for tanking we dont even compair to crusaders or even bezerkers for that matter. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My point is that a monk may look cool and have a few decent skills but as far as being usefull in a group its really last in line to any other class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Malsar7]

What about all the utility abilities monks get?What about the ability to FD (with a rez feather, stone, what-have you)?What about being able to semi-tank? (Yes we arent the best, but we can tank for a short while if need be. ie. healer gets aggro, we can taunt it off and the MT can taunt off us.)We have the highest DPS of the figher class, but we arnet the best tanks. We make up for it for all the other things we can do.And calling us the last in line is like calling a basketball game over before it even starts. Until everyone really *knows* how to play their class and use all the abilities give in the right way, its not completely clear what class is the best/what class is the worst.Just my 2cp.Malsar Greycloud

[Sant]

<DIV>Well swashbucklers have, mez, taunt, hate increase  buffs, poisons, smuggle(group sneak), slow, snare, a group port, mob knockdowns, serious DPS, and better armor. They dont have as many hit points and they dont have FD. Fding to save a group from having to revive is ok but its not full proof and its no reason to pick a monk for a group. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope im wrong and that monks have something that Im missing becuase I do really want to play my monk, I just dont want to be a pity pick and thats how it feels allot of the time. A monks damage is at least a 1/3 that of a  good swashbucklers and their utility powers arnt as good.</DIV>

[Crunion]

<DIV>brawlers also get rapid swing. this attack alone can deal alot of damage if all 4 attacks hit. i'm pushing 100 damage using this attack, but only have it at APP1 sofar.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I picked up 2 splintering quarterstaffs and loving the animation on these. Plus the DPS on them is nice</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Choo</DIV> <DIV>19 Gnome Brawler</DIV> <DIV>My Kung-choo is strong</DIV>

[GangsterFi]

Well this is what i do at level 30.Ditched all weapons and use fists.Fist do about 45 to 95 damage for regular meleeRapid swings - 4 hits at 45damage each approxBruising strike - 125 dmggrappling bear - 95 dmgbreak through - 95 dmgflying kick - 120 dmgswooping dragon - 160 dmgicy talon - 200 dmgI also have a few others. So yeah, monks can DPS allright. Each of these attacks is on a seperate timer too, so I can use them all back to back. Most of them are on 20 to 30 second timers for reuse.

[tkemo]

<DIV>Thats a little discouraging, I have had Bruising hits near 120 at level 21.</DIV>

[Leopa]

I play a 15 brawler atm and personally I am doing great at tanking, sure a warrior or crusader can do better against orange and red group mobs, but so far tanking monster up to yellow with 2up arrows is fairly trivial. Most brawlers outthere wear almost no armor, and they have poor defensive skills. I have been tanking since I started my brawler and have my defensive skills maxed out, so i evade/block pretty well. Sure sometimes the mob might let out a burst of damage, but with a half decent healer that doesnt wait until u have no life to heal I do fine.Aggro wise brawler have it better than other fighters, I rarely taunt more than once during a fight, and then dmg skills generate enough hate. You say a scout can outdamage a monk and that's probrably true but not by as much as you are claiming, with a few adepts1 a brawlers does fine. Sure the scout might dish out more damage per skill but the timer on those scout skills range from 30sec to 5minutes, when almost all the skill of the brawler come back in 10-20 seconds. If you go all out dmg and do the skills as they pop you shouldnt worry about ur dps.Btw I thought powerstrike didnt do any dmg...

[Oliv]

A scout can outdamage a monk by at least a factor of 2 and probably upwards of 4.