Anyone else think our EoF AAs are broke?

[Drathstar]

To be honest, the enhancements on our AAs aren't terribly bad, they are just enhancing abilites that SUCK to begin with.  The only AAs that are worthwhile are the 25% increased damage on our AEs.  The ultimate in our cyclone line is nice for the 10% taunt resits,  but the extra 5 radius on AEs makes my insolent gibe pull things from out of the room and kill my group more often than saving it does.  The regen buffs are pointless and only add to or soloing ability.  I may regen 200hp a tick in combat but whats the point if I have a healer?  It saves him/her a minimal amount of power.  Our Debilitation line is somewhat useful but it doesn't really add any damage except for our damage taunt and little surviveability.  Yeah we can slow the mobs attacks a little more. We can make the mob a little easier to interrupt.  We can stifle the mob for an extra WHOPPING 1.5s total.  Big deal.  The bulking line is pure garbage along with the perseverence line.  Gut roar is a decent ability though.  Its like a mini Tower of Stone.  It would be way more worthwile to get and use if it was on a 30s timer instead of a 1m one though.Am I the only person who feels that the berserker is just becoming a 2nd rate tank and a 3rd rate dps?  Do any of you other zerkers feel this way?  If not, please enlighten me.Drathstar 70 Zerker - Unrest<div></div>

[Jvaloth]

<DIV>You are correct sir.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Was complaining throughout Beta that our AA's were no sufficient nor acceptable and no one gave a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here we are, 2nd rate tanks,  3rd rate DPS.   Caught in limbo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SoE did a horrible job in their planning when it came to a wide variety of classes AA's and zerkers are a poster child for this reality.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Renzai]

<DIV>To me, it seems like SOE decided to use fillers on our final EoF AA abilities because they couldn't think up anything worth while.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Did they imagine <EM>anyone </EM>getting pumped about being able to auto-berzerk for 10 seconds by clicking a button? Please.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>100% HP regen below 30%....another useless HP regen ability. I guess it could come in handy for soloers that solo things that get them below 30%.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The added range on AoEs is more of a pain than anything. I'd really like to know what the intended result is behind this one....I mean before they added the 10% taunt thing.  Hitting mobs that are an extra 5 range away from me is really going to help with <fill in the blank>. (My answer would be getting aggro from things through walls when I use insolent gibe)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I haven't tried out Gut Roar, can't really comment on it yet.</DIV>

[Kage8]

Ya know i was keeping to myself about our AA's for a bit hoping they would fix them. I think that is a dream now. Our AA's arent total crap, but there about as close to it as you can get.Lower recast on Destruction and Open Wounds. Good25% more damage to our AoE's? Average at best. These AoE's take so long to cast that when i cast them most of the time i have lost agro by the time im done.The rest. Absolute GARBAGE!The dehibilitaion line a god [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] insult.Regen? Keep your regen.Lowering the penelties on our +29 to def 30 sec buff to the point where the attack decrease is gone....Very nice. But you gatta go through some of that crappy regen garbage to get to it.Not one of our last AA skills are any good at all.I have seen alo tof the other trees as i have many many alts. They are all fun and im looking forward to getting AA's with my Fury, Sk, Warden, Ranger, and Nec....And Guardians? Well where we get a whole line dedicated to debuffing, they get a line dedicated to Damage!....30% more damage on almost all there major attacks. And 10% double attack at the end. They have nasty ways of keeping agro, WE keep agro with damage.....Why even be a zerker anymore. If i didnt love my char so much (god knows why i do) id betray him right now.Anyways on a little side note i went on the SK forums to look up AA info on my 47 Sk. I [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] you not theres Sk's there accually complaining about there AA's...[Removed for Content]Just wait till they make the change to Reaver, one of there last AAs...oh baby. cant waitto get AA on my Sk..My Zerker? Well the AA's will come as they come. Dont really care when that is.<div></div>

[Giland]

Just about every class is complaining about their EoF AAs.Lets be honest. They don't suck. They are average. Everyone wanted something that was mindblowing awesome and when they didn't get it, they say they suck. But that just isn't true. If we were given an AA that summoned store bought food of our level, that would suck. Adding the ability to bezerk on command doesn't suck, it is average. It is very situational. Just because something is situational doesn't mean it sucks.It seems the idea with AAs in EoF was to take abilities classes already had and expand them or alter them slightly. To me, it seems they wanted to keep the status quo with the AAs. 5 points into an AA doesn't overpower it, but will basically take it "to the next level". Make an app1 behave like an app2, an app2 like an app3, so on and so fourth until a master1 is like a master2, and a master2 behaves like a mythical master3.  Given the CAs a beserker uses as what they had to start with, I don't think they are all that bad. The AAs modify the CAs a beserker uses from lvl 10 all the way up. They take the unique properties a beserker has, and expands on them. Beserkers are good AoE tanks, so they expanded that. Beserkers have high hp regen, they expanded that.Will they change  someone from being a poor player who can't solo a grey double down to a monster who can solo yellow triple ups? No. Will they make a beserker just a bit better at doing what they already do? yes.<div></div>

[Amon`]

<P>Cyclone makes Insolent Gibe into a 20 meter radius taunt. You pull rooms at a time, pull through walls... the ultimate add grabber. This skill was useful before this but now unless you want to pull the whole zone at once, it sucks. I got cyclone for the 10% taunt resist though.</P> <P>I find myself falling behind in dps now, which is very dissapointing. I have 40% in dps adornments but I still have a hard time placing myself the same as I did before. I am still getting on the raid parse (top <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, but no longer able to top it at times and keep a dominant place on the list... which is how I suppose it should be, but I have always had a reputation for being the berserker with the crazy dps, even since T5 raiding. </P> <P>It just seems like other classes seem to be getting more out of their AA's or something.</P> <P>My berserk is also triggering alot less (when not tanking) than before. If I am just hitting the mobs and not tanking or getting hit, it is going off about roughly 1/2 of the amount it was proc'ing before.</P>

[Giland]

I am not really wanting to extend range of my AoEs either for that exact reason.As for the parse logs. Where you place is very subjective. I would ask, are you doing the same amount of dps as before, or is your dps lower?  Basically, are you placing lower because everyone else is doing more damage? New gear available that is doing + to spells, and EoF AAs that increase damage could be increasing others above you. They have gotten more benefit from new gear/AAs than you have. Skills seem to matter a bit more now too. Are you missing more often? Has your hit to swing ratio dropped?<div></div>

[Nembutal]

<div><blockquote><hr>Giland wrote:I am not really wanting to extend range of my AoEs either for that exact reason.As for the parse logs. Where you place is very subjective. I would ask, are you doing the same amount of dps as before, or is your dps lower?  Basically, are you placing lower because everyone else is doing more damage? New gear available that is doing + to spells, and EoF AAs that increase damage could be increasing others above you. They have gotten more benefit from new gear/AAs than you have. Skills seem to matter a bit more now too. Are you missing more often? Has your hit to swing ratio dropped?<div></div><hr></blockquote>Yeah someone tried to tell me "do the cyclone for the taunt boost.. that would rock"  it seems they fall under the same misunderstanding the devs do... that they don't understand larger AE's usually = DEATH.Perhaps if they could program a virtual wall that didn't let AE leak though it... well that would maybe be nice if you were a good player... but even when I slam my butt into a corner and then hit an AE... I get mobs coming from another room!  AE is a scary thing due to the inability to program a decent wall... or perhaps lack of desire to do so.If I have to increase my AE range to get taunt... I will refuse to do it... plain and simple... its like offering me 300 HPS for the loss of 50 mitigation... but making me PAY for that transfer... um.. no thanks.... I'll stick with the ratio of good stuff I have and buy something without a penalty attatched... thanks anyways.They should make the end ability on that like 12 or 15% resist rate on taunts and remove the AE range boost IMHO... if they did that.. this AA would be the first I went for.They need to allow 5 AAs spent into group bezerk proc rate increase... recycle timer enchanching AA's need a boost... I don't want to dump 5 AA's to make 1 skill recycle 13% faster.... when it will only be usuable 1 MAYBE 2 times during an epic encounter even with the change.  25 secs shaved off a 3 minute skill.. sucks.... 1/6th... 13.8% time decrease.... 25% peeps... if you reduce it 25% it's useful... 14% is butt... I'll increase my stuns instead... I can use them several times on a fight... and they pwn in duels.The GROUP regen you guys are laughing at IMHO is one of our better AA's for exp grouping... and even on some raids depending on the AE you are dealing with and the group composition.  I can understand not going with that one... but it's not the worst we have.The final abilities we have are a big [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] joke... the 15 min regen proc thing is a big [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] joke... and the vision of madness and unyielding will are big [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] jokes... these are skills I might not hit for WEEKS... or that have so little impact some people don't even put them on a hotbar.  Juggernaught is useful to a degree... but I still won't pay to boost something likely to get me killed.Mayhem would have been handy if diminishing returns didn't come with EoF also... I find that by pressing mayhem I don't see a difference in my ability to stay alive... nor does my % mitigation number change much... like 1%... wow... a short term buff I can boost that might make a 1% impact on the way I play... thanks SOE... I'll boost it a little because I feel I have to because it's the only tank skill we can boost at all without a penalty... but it's only out of a sense of responsibility... it pisses me off.</div>

[Kage8]

<div><blockquote><hr>Giland wrote:Just about every class is complaining about their EoF AAs.Lets be honest. They don't suck. They are average. Everyone wanted something that was mindblowing awesome and when they didn't get it, they say they suck. But that just isn't true. If we were given an AA that summoned store bought food of our level, that would suck. Adding the ability to bezerk on command doesn't suck, it is average. It is very situational. Just because something is situational doesn't mean it sucks.It seems the idea with AAs in EoF was to take abilities classes already had and expand them or alter them slightly. To me, it seems they wanted to keep the status quo with the AAs. 5 points into an AA doesn't overpower it, but will basically take it "to the next level". Make an app1 behave like an app2, an app2 like an app3, so on and so fourth until a master1 is like a master2, and a master2 behaves like a mythical master3.  Given the CAs a beserker uses as what they had to start with, I don't think they are all that bad. The AAs modify the CAs a beserker uses from lvl 10 all the way up. They take the unique properties a beserker has, and expands on them. Beserkers are good AoE tanks, so they expanded that. Beserkers have high hp regen, they expanded that.Will they change  someone from being a poor player who can't solo a grey double down to a monster who can solo yellow triple ups? No. Will they make a beserker just a bit better at doing what they already do? yes.<div></div><hr></blockquote>So every1 is comeplaining about there AA's? Thats not correct. IM NOT. I asolutly LOVE my sk AA's i like my Gaurdian AA's i love my Fury and warden AA's...and so on.So please enough with this every one complains about AA's. My Zerker is not my only char and i have seen alot of AA's tree's.Berserk on command? Does it stack with our reg berserk, cause if it does them thats a goodone but from what i have been told and in beta it dont....and its less than our reg ones. Garbage.In combat regen is ok for duo or solo but i dont care what you say 100hp regen every 6 seconds is nothing i need nor do i want it....I just wish they gave us a tree that advances our damage on our reg attack instead of de-buffs....And im sorry and its just my opinion and take if for what you will but our AA's in comparasen with my other Alts AA's are not up to par. Im now on my 22ed AA on my 48 Sk and im lovin them all and cant wait for more. My 68 Fury has about 30 and there rockin. My Guardian only has 7 but hes 23 and i cant wait to get more...And i can go on and on....I dont wanna be over powered just want to look forward to my AA's. and Atm i dont even care one bit about them...Just one Zerkers opinion.</div>

[Gungo]

<P>I know i am digging a hole here, but you ever think maybe that is the intent. Maybe they want bezerker as a second rate tank (2nd best at tanking) and 3rd rate dps (3rd best fighter at dps). And then ask yourself is that really that bad. If SoE really just balanced classes with new abilities and new tiers instead of constantly nerfing classes and changing combat. I am sure alot of people will be happy although there will still be the complaints that "Our abilities suck" or "thier ability is better". <BR><BR>While you may say i have no reason posting here about weak bezerker abilities and your are correct. I am only saying that maybe the reason these abilites are not so powerful is because they did not want them to be. It is something to think about at least. While certain ability may seem like they are useless they do help in areas for bezerkers that may be your weakest such as soloing w increased regen. This may not be what you want to hear and i do not know lockeye's intent with these AA's or if he even had any intent at all, but it seems to be a logical theory.</P><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>12-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:03 PM</span>

[Oldlore]

EoF AAs were a mixed bag to different classes.  My warden hates the AAs, especially with the nerf to cures on test.  My fury loves them.  I hate most of the berskeker ones but really like the necro ones. <div></div>

[zormik]

<P>As a MT i'm really [Removed for Content] about this aa's.  The only reason i'm still the MT is because i know my job and i have the gear/masters to do the job.</P> <P>Take that away and i'd prolly stop playing my zerk on raids and switch to my coercer.  Much more useful then a zerk atm...</P>

[Triste-Lune]

basically the only thing in could see myself go for is :5 pts in all cyclone line extra DPS + end ability.5 pts in violent pledge.5 point in suppressed rage (forcing us to waste 6 [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing point in crap)5 point in unyelding will.and the rest of the point i dont even want to think where to place them the AA are jsut disgusting.Gutroar is absolutely unreliable (woot i blocked the blur vision spell of the mob but the 8K aoe inc 3 sec after still hit me.Berserk : yes at last!!!!! i can actually nerf myself at will SOE finnaly made it happen.Regen below 30% : GET RIDE OF OUR [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ING HP REGEN LINES (not just the AA the whole skill group and single), READ MY LIPS : NO [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ING BERZERKER IN HIS RIGHT MIND FIND THAT WHOLE LINE OF SKILL ANY USE.If my guild hadnt given me the job of maintanking and if i wouldnt be fully mastered, my berserker would be retired already maybe betrayed to guard and yet i have not the desire to do it and farm 25+ master spells.Go get a freaking clue when designing AA.

[Renzai]

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Gungo wrote:</P> <P>I know i am digging a hole here, but you ever think maybe that is the intent. Maybe they want bezerker as a second rate tank (2nd best at tanking) and 3rd rate dps (3rd best fighter at dps). And then ask yourself is that really that bad. If SoE really just balanced classes with new abilities and new tiers instead of constantly nerfing classes and changing combat. I am sure alot of people will be happy although there will still be the complaints that "Our abilities suck" or "thier ability is better".<BR><BR>While you may say i have no reason posting here about weak bezerker abilities and your are correct. I am only saying that maybe the reason these abilites are not so powerful is because they did not want them to be. It is something to think about at least. While certain ability may seem like they are useless they do help in areas for bezerkers that may be your weakest such as soloing w increased regen. This may not be what you want to hear and i do not know lockeye's intent with these AA's or if he even had any intent at all, but it seems to be a logical theory.</P> <P>Message Edited by Gungo on <SPAN class=date_text>12-13-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>02:03 PM</SPAN></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Pretty sure no one has any misconceptions over weither they intended to make it powerful or not. I'm glad that's not the point of this thread.</P>

[Shurinow]

<P>I don't happen to think our AA choices are useless.  The abilities you can improve can make you better, especially if you tank raids.</P> <P>Here is what I'm going to be taking:</P> <P>5 pts Enhance: Violent Pledge                    5 pts Enhance: Mayhem</P> <P>5 pts Enhance: Persistent Battering           3 pts Enhance: Rage</P> <P>5 pts Enhance: Disfigure                            5 pts Enhance: Wall of Ferocity</P> <P>5 pts Enhance: Demolish                           5 pts Enhance: War Cry</P> <P>1 pt  Gut Roar                                             1 pt  Enhance: Ruthless Strike</P> <P>5 pts Enhance: Destruction</P> <P>5 pts Enhance: Open Wounds</P> <P> </P> <P>With this setup, I get faster recast on my two AE attacks and mitigation buff.  More powerful single target taunt and debuffs.  Greater chance for my group and me to go berserk.  Longer duration on my other mitigation buff.  And I get Gut Roar.  I don't see anywhere to complain.</P>

[thisthingsucks]

<div></div><p></p><blockquote><hr>Gungo wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>I know i am digging a hole here, but you ever think maybe that is the intent. Maybe they want bezerker as a second rate tank (2nd best at tanking) and 3rd rate dps (3rd best fighter at dps). And then ask yourself is that really that bad. If SoE really just balanced classes with new abilities and new tiers instead of constantly nerfing classes and changing combat. I am sure alot of people will be happy although there will still be the complaints that "Our abilities suck" or "thier ability is better".While you may say i have no reason posting here about weak bezerker abilities and your are correct. I am only saying that maybe the reason these abilites are not so powerful is because they did not want them to be. It is something to think about at least. While certain ability may seem like they are useless they do help in areas for bezerkers that may be your weakest such as soloing w increased regen. This may not be what you want to hear and i do not know lockeye's intent with these AA's or if he even had any intent at all, but it seems to be a logical theory.</p><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class="date_text">12-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:03 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>   Ok if this is the case, then where do zerkers stand? Every class I’ve played has a nitch; my warden is the uber healer, my mystic is the king of wards and so on. I’m not saying we need to be THE TANK CLASS, or THE DPS CLASS, but you gotta give us something. And maybe there is, I remember reading somewhere that the highest magic hit ever was from a zerker (I’m sure there were other factors) so maybe there is something that I just don’t know how to use.</p><p>   I don’t mind that my zerker was a punk until the late 50's I don’t mind that he was always passed over because there was a monk or a guard also looking for group. But I truly think that if a class is going to be hard to play at lower lvls (and my zerker was) then when you get to 70 there should be something that makes it worth it. I used to think that Open Wounds and VOM were those thing, but since my mit sucks now it takes me forever to solo single even con mobs.</p><p>   Give us a strike that takes half our life and half our power but hits for 20k and has an hour timer on it. Or give us an AA that give us crazy AOE auto attack that ticks off a bit of life every time we hit something and doesn’t stop until the mob is dead or until we are.</p><p>   when i started playing I chose zerker because in my head the zerker was the guy that the people came to when they had no other option (if you will excuse a little RP here as its not really my thing) I imagined a zerker being the dirty half drunk guy in the back who gets tired of the shiny guardian, and the pious monks "talking" about how to kill this thing. When he can take it any more the zerker grumbles something about not wanting to live forever, grabs his Axe, and takes off toward the dragon at a run. i know that probably sounds lame, but in my mind, that’s a zerker.<span></span></p>

[Effie]

<DIV>I got my KOS AAs maxed out leveling up my berserker.</DIV> <DIV>Since that, I really haven't paid much attention to AAs. At one point I was sitting at 7 unspent AAs.</DIV> <DIV>The EOF abilities are very underwhelming.</DIV>

[Trynnus1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thisthingsucks wrote:<BR> <P><BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <P>I know i am digging a hole here, but you ever think maybe that is the intent. Maybe they want bezerker as a second rate tank (2nd best at tanking) and 3rd rate dps (3rd best fighter at dps). And then ask yourself is that really that bad. If SoE really just balanced classes with new abilities and new tiers instead of constantly nerfing classes and changing combat. I am sure alot of people will be happy although there will still be the complaints that "Our abilities suck" or "thier ability is better".<BR><BR>While you may say i have no reason posting here about weak bezerker abilities and your are correct. I am only saying that maybe the reason these abilites are not so powerful is because they did not want them to be. It is something to think about at least. While certain ability may seem like they are useless they do help in areas for bezerkers that may be your weakest such as soloing w increased regen. This may not be what you want to hear and i do not know lockeye's intent with these AA's or if he even had any intent at all, but it seems to be a logical theory.</P> <P>Message Edited by Gungo on <SPAN class=date_text>12-13-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>02:03 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR> <P>   Ok if this is the case, then where do zerkers stand? Every class I’ve played has a nitch; my warden is the uber healer, my mystic is the king of wards and so on. I’m not saying we need to be THE TANK CLASS, or THE DPS CLASS, but you gotta give us something. And maybe there is, I remember reading somewhere that the highest magic hit ever was from a zerker (I’m sure there were other factors) so maybe there is something that I just don’t know how to use.<BR></P> <P>   I don’t mind that my zerker was a punk until the late 50's I don’t mind that he was always passed over because there was a monk or a guard also looking for group. But I truly think that if a class is going to be hard to play at lower lvls (and my zerker was) then when you get to 70 there should be something that makes it worth it. I used to think that Open Wounds and VOM were those thing, but since my mit sucks now it takes me forever to solo single even con mobs.<BR></P> <P>   Give us a strike that takes half our life and half our power but hits for 20k and has an hour timer on it. Or give us an AA that give us crazy AOE auto attack that ticks off a bit of life every time we hit something and doesn’t stop until the mob is dead or until we are.<BR></P> <P>   when i started playing I chose zerker because in my head the zerker was the guy that the people came to when they had no other option (if you will excuse a little RP here as its not really my thing) I imagined a zerker being the dirty half drunk guy in the back who gets tired of the shiny guardian, and the pious monks "talking" about how to kill this thing. When he can take it any more the zerker grumbles something about not wanting to live forever, grabs his Axe, and takes off toward the dragon at a run. i know that probably sounds lame, but in my mind, that’s a zerker.<SPAN></SPAN></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You know what - I agree with that line of thinking. I picked a zerker because I saw the class as the "crazy" tank. The guy that yells " LEROY JENKINS" and runs into the mobs and swings away with a f*ing huge 2 hander and mows stuff down.</P> <P>You know what, time for a "little" change. - Zerkers now wear leather only, only use 2 handers, gain class trait of increased damage (DPS and Haste) and strength as healthe drops beause the mobs have really pi$$ed us off (I know this is when we go berzerk but as more damage is done, the higher the increase). I want a new CA cause RUSH - 15 sec buff that increases run speed by 50% and as soon as we contact a group of mobs knocks then all on there butts for damage and a 8 secs stun so the rest of the group can catch up.</P> <P>I opporate welll in the current "body pull" environment, but you know the most fun I have was in on guild nest runs when I would hit Insolent gibe and pull a whole room. I love that the max number of encounters was removed. Now we can hit as many mobs as are surrounding us. Now, I know there is a time and a place for this.</P> <P>IMO our class AAs are eh, i am placing as i get them but will do a respec when i get all 50. The major issue is I just dont see a progress for our class, gear and AA wise.<BR></P><p>Message Edited by Trynnus1 on <span class=date_text>12-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:22 PM</span>

[Kage8]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Trynnus1 wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> thisthingsucks wrote: <div></div> <p></p> <blockquote> <hr> Gungo wrote: <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <p>I know i am digging a hole here, but you ever think maybe that is the intent. Maybe they want bezerker as a second rate tank (2nd best at tanking) and 3rd rate dps (3rd best fighter at dps). And then ask yourself is that really that bad. If SoE really just balanced classes with new abilities and new tiers instead of constantly nerfing classes and changing combat. I am sure alot of people will be happy although there will still be the complaints that "Our abilities suck" or "thier ability is better".While you may say i have no reason posting here about weak bezerker abilities and your are correct. I am only saying that maybe the reason these abilites are not so powerful is because they did not want them to be. It is something to think about at least. While certain ability may seem like they are useless they do help in areas for bezerkers that may be your weakest such as soloing w increased regen. This may not be what you want to hear and i do not know lockeye's intent with these AA's or if he even had any intent at all, but it seems to be a logical theory.</p> <p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class="date_text">12-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:03 PM</span></p> <hr> </blockquote> <p>   Ok if this is the case, then where do zerkers stand? Every class I’ve played has a nitch; my warden is the uber healer, my mystic is the king of wards and so on. I’m not saying we need to be THE TANK CLASS, or THE DPS CLASS, but you gotta give us something. And maybe there is, I remember reading somewhere that the highest magic hit ever was from a zerker (I’m sure there were other factors) so maybe there is something that I just don’t know how to use.</p> <p>   I don’t mind that my zerker was a punk until the late 50's I don’t mind that he was always passed over because there was a monk or a guard also looking for group. But I truly think that if a class is going to be hard to play at lower lvls (and my zerker was) then when you get to 70 there should be something that makes it worth it. I used to think that Open Wounds and VOM were those thing, but since my mit sucks now it takes me forever to solo single even con mobs.</p> <p>   Give us a strike that takes half our life and half our power but hits for 20k and has an hour timer on it. Or give us an AA that give us crazy AOE auto attack that ticks off a bit of life every time we hit something and doesn’t stop until the mob is dead or until we are.</p> <p>   when i started playing I chose zerker because in my head the zerker was the guy that the people came to when they had no other option (if you will excuse a little RP here as its not really my thing) I imagined a zerker being the dirty half drunk guy in the back who gets tired of the shiny guardian, and the pious monks "talking" about how to kill this thing. When he can take it any more the zerker grumbles something about not wanting to live forever, grabs his Axe, and takes off toward the dragon at a run. i know that probably sounds lame, but in my mind, that’s a zerker.<span></span></p> <hr> </blockquote> <p>You know what - I agree with that line of thinking. I picked a zerker because I saw the class as the "crazy" tank. The guy that yells " LEROY JENKINS" and runs into the mobs and swings away with a f*ing huge 2 hander and mows stuff down.</p> <p>You know what, time for a "little" change. - Zerkers now wear leather only, only use 2 handers, gain class trait of increased damage (DPS and Haste) and strength as healthe drops beause the mobs have really pi$$ed us off (I know this is when we go berzerk but as more damage is done, the higher the increase). I want a new CA cause RUSH - 15 sec buff that increases run speed by 50% and as soon as we contact a group of mobs knocks then all on there butts for damage and a 8 secs stun so the rest of the group can catch up.</p> <p>I opporate welll in the current "body pull" environment, but you know the most fun I have was in on guild nest runs when I would hit Insolent gibe and pull a whole room. I love that the max number of encounters was removed. Now we can hit as many mobs as are surrounding us. Now, I know there is a time and a place for this.</p> <p>IMO our class AAs are eh, i am placing as i get them but will do a respec when i get all 50. The major issue is I just dont see a progress for our class, gear and AA wise.</p><p>Message Edited by Trynnus1 on <span class="date_text">12-15-2006</span> <span class="time_text">12:22 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Could'nt agree more. Very well said.The days of being a maniac (Berserk) are over. All welcome the carefull, slow, boring single pull days.Forget pulling an entire room like you did in SoS or the nest hitting Gib and enjoying the uncontrolled slaughter of 16+ ^'s or double arrows down...../drool....Gone are the days of grping with some new fresh to T7 lvl 62 Templar in SoS and pulling the whole room where thoes 6 grps of 4 in each grp (dont know the room name) and watching him type [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], EVAC EVAC Your &%#$ing crazy?.....All while spaming every heal he has.Welcome into the days of the Mit curve. Where not haveing a mezzer and getting ONE add is a wipe.Gibe, Open wounds? AoE's r good for nothing if you have to have adds mezzed or your grp dies.We are now nothing more than a striped down guardian and we have been tamed! We have been tamed by SoE and we are a shadow of what we once were.Zerkers as we used to know them are dead.RIP Zerker class2004-2006</div><p>Message Edited by Kage848 on <span class=date_text>12-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:49 PM</span>

[Dimgl]

<font color="#00cc99">I'm not even going to bother quoting, but I disagree with all of the people saying it's impossible to pull large pulls anymore, or that you can't play a berserker as a berserker anymore.I still pull 10-20 mobs all the time in the same places you listed, while in O stance, with a single Templar healing me. It still works exactly the same as it used to, I spiked harder sometimes, and my mit buffs don't work as well, but that's another topic altogether. What's different now is that you can't do that in EOF zones. EOF zones are a lot more difficult, and when an EOF mob has a ^^^ it really means it, especially in a zone like Castle Mistmoore.Zerker as a class is in good shape, there are only two problems with it now really. One, our EOF achievements are completely lacking, I do not disagree with that at all. Cyclones is an -excellent- line. I have 5 points in every Cyclones option, but the rest of the trees are absolute crap. I'm doing debilitation for Gut Roar in PVP, but really there is a lot of room for improvement. I tried to get some improvements with the feedback thread on this forum while EOF was in beta and offered a lot of ideas, but in the end we got stuck. It is probably to be expected, Berserkers were nigh overpowered in KOS, and getting a few nerf-by-proxies was likely in order.Two, our mit buffs don't work nearly as well, and aren't nearly as useful, which makes us tremendously weaker than crusaders defensively. This was the biggest nerf to berserkers (and guardians) in all of EOF. How badly all fighters got [Removed for Content] on accuracy was the second biggest nerf we probably felt.The rest of the game manages to function pretty comparably, excluding unfixed raid mobs or normal mobs doing way way too much DPS.</font><div></div>

[Kage8]

<div><blockquote><hr>Dimglow wrote:<font color="#00cc99">I'm not even going to bother quoting, but I disagree with all of the people saying it's impossible to pull large pulls anymore, or that you can't play a berserker as a berserker anymore.I still pull 10-20 mobs all the time in the same places you listed, while in O stance, with a single Templar healing me. It still works exactly the same as it used to, I spiked harder sometimes, and my mit buffs don't work as well, but that's another topic altogether. What's different now is that you can't do that in EOF zones. EOF zones are a lot more difficult, and when an EOF mob has a ^^^ it really means it, especially in a zone like Castle Mistmoore.Zerker as a class is in good shape, there are only two problems with it now really. One, our EOF achievements are completely lacking, I do not disagree with that at all. Cyclones is an -excellent- line. I have 5 points in every Cyclones option, but the rest of the trees are absolute crap. I'm doing debilitation for Gut Roar in PVP, but really there is a lot of room for improvement. I tried to get some improvements with the feedback thread on this forum while EOF was in beta and offered a lot of ideas, but in the end we got stuck. It is probably to be expected, Berserkers were nigh overpowered in KOS, and getting a few nerf-by-proxies was likely in order.Two, our mit buffs don't work nearly as well, and aren't nearly as useful, which makes us tremendously weaker than crusaders defensively. This was the biggest nerf to berserkers (and guardians) in all of EOF. How badly all fighters got [Removed for Content] on accuracy was the second biggest nerf we probably felt.The rest of the game manages to function pretty comparably, excluding unfixed raid mobs or normal mobs doing way way too much DPS.</font><div></div><hr></blockquote>Ok fair enough, you can still do that in the old zones. But i have no intention of going to "Old zones" and im sure alot of others feel the same way. So the Big grp pulling is next to dead, but not all the way.And in the new T7 zones our AoE advantage has been almost completly removed.In CoV and OoB, my only 2 T7 zones i have done so far as i have no drive or hunger to get AA's or upgrade gear, 80-90% of the mobs are ^^^. Ok yes there are some grps in there where OW, Destruction and Gibe are good, but most of the zone is single pulls, mezzed adds, or death.Ok now you may be woundering why i have no drive for AA's or gear? Well AA's speak for themselves. But gear?Well the set gear, only gear i will be getting as i dont raid, is barly an upgrade for me. I did a test and 44 pts of mit, and this is about the mit upgrade i can expect on gear i get in the new T7 zones, was something like .4% mit increase. Id need 3 upgrades to break 1%mit.So I can go into one of these zones and battle tothe end in hopes that I can get something really nice. Something I can call an upgrade. My new toy drops and i win the roll, if there is one, I put it on and for my efforts I get .4%+ to my char. Thanks but no thanks i think ill play my alts or craft.This is of course thanks to the Mit curve.</div>

[Psykil]

<DIV>Ok, I was going to post to devs about possible upgrades or an idea for them to play with. I have been playing a zerker from game release and gone thru the ups and downs, but lets face it, since PvP was intoroduced our class has gone considerably down hill, KoS and EoF is proof that we are over looked or they are just trying to make us less useful.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I heard of EoF class specific AA's when they released beta notes I was excited that I may have something to have goals for and make us class defining, but when I was in beta I realized that once again Sony pulled a juggernaut on us and gave us the stick, forgive me if Im wrong but all our aa's seem PvP geared, Larger AE's, insta zerk, HP regen and Gut Roar (counter). now I could be completely wrong but they just seem tailor fit for PvP and if I played PvP i would be quite happy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now at the same time these AA's could be much worse, but I dare you too look at another AA tree from any class and say they are worse than our's , dont even try to compare to Guardian tree it makes you want to vomit a little in your mouth, its disgusting and a slap in the face. However we were given some things like stated earlier that would make us a small fraction of a bit better than previous, but isnt that the point of having these? I mean dont dillute yourself, you could seriosuly not spend a single point and never notice the difference at all, the only thing that is moderatly useful is GutRoar, and that has its fair share of bugs and doesnt always do what is intended from it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My suggestions to devs w/o making us overpowering and just adding small changes that may actually motivate me to get/work on AA's would be:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Perseverance-</DIV> <DIV>Suppresed Rage-instead of penalty reduction add parry to it as well, if were using this we are trying to avoid being hit, we dont need to hit faster.</DIV> <DIV>Vision of Madness- instead of 8 sec less on recast add % to more health on trigger, 8mins less on recast is not even worth talking about.</DIV> <DIV>Perseverance- Instead of health regen at 30%, maybe have it add % to avoidance if under 30%.. 100 hp regen is just a waste.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cyclone-</DIV> <DIV>Ok this line as is as far as adding damage to ae's is ok the problem is do you want to waste aa's on it, my suggestion would be making the end tier Cyclone worth getting, I think it would be great if you could make this a Group buff for grp that is short duration that gives grp 16secs of Open wounds, 16 secs is not overpowering and would actually make it useful with a 3min or less recast, as is tho the  5% extra range and 10% taunt resist is worthless, esp considering ur adding aggression.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Debilitation-</DIV> <DIV>I think its cool you want to add higher % debuffs and stuns ect. problem is longer stuns and stifles and higher % debuffs do nothing for the raiding zerker.</DIV> <DIV>however I dont think that needs to be changed, I think if you added more dmg to the CA's as well like Violent pledge it would counter the part of none of the debuffs being all that usefull, im not saying add 1000's to the damage but atleast make it feel like im gaining something, the end tier Gut Roar is actually decent so I wouldnt have any modifications to it other than it being less buggy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bulking-</DIV> <DIV>Juggernaut- Ok I feel it was unfair to begin with that this came with negative stats attached to the crit chance boost, this was your chance to justify that, instead of making the duartion longer I would like to see the negatives decreased by 25% per level, increased duration just makes it more common to gain aggro with it, and all zerkers know aggro with juggernaut up = bad.</DIV> <DIV>Berserk- ok this is just funny the way you have it, it is a 10sec long insta zerk that adds Half of what normal zerk proc does, no zerker in their right mind would even think of getting this, I would say if you wanted to keep this as a zerk proc you should make the dps/haste 28% or so that stacks with ur normal proc and have its duration increased to 30sec to a min with a 3 min recast depending on the duration.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok im not even sure a dev will actually read this, or if they did would respond to it. It's just what I think should be or would atleast motivate me to even setting goals to get these aa's, cause as it is right now I log in less and less before raids, there just isnt anything to do or look forward to, and it really sucks hearing how great others aa's are or how great they work for raid ect. I just wanna feel like im getting something that is contributing to my class somehow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>please other zerkers respond with your ideas or tweak mine even, and if a dev comes across this please look into this, I have been posting since beta, and its obviouslly not just me that feels this way.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[mjcool]

<DIV>i have played zerker sins beta and loved it until EoF</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>just to start whit why dos zerker stil being played azz tank ??  the only tank ingame is guardians thy dont need wiss line like zerkers thy buff melee skills so dont need wis to just hit the mobs </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>thy buff hp like hell a good guardians have around 9800 self buffed and i can hit around 8200 solo </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and what do we have hp regen ok thats nice for solo when you have maxed it whit the neww aa line but realy what dos that help in raiding</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>base thy are the only tank class ingame right now and iff SoE cant se that thy realy need to get a new job  can maby help blizzard on there crap game WoW</DIV> <P>Message Edited by mjcool on <SPAN class=date_text>12-17-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:31 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by mjcool on <span class=date_text>12-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:43 PM</span>

[Triste-Lune]

mjcool grammar isnt your friend? :pi really agree with psykil on the AA and the current state of zerker post EOF. There is such a huge discrepancy between the AA that Warrior get, and when comparing the Fabled set it s just laughtable. honnestely 100 to outrage will never come close to a +10 defense ( skill that the guard can already buff by themselve )30 sec to demolish is rediculous, that skill is just wortless in it s current for too much mana needed for a silly stiffle.9% dbl attack is from what i think not stacking with the Stam line (at least guard 10% final AA isnt).Juggernaught was the first /rude the devs adressed us and now the EoF AA are here to give us a final /finger. The fabled set is the salt added on the wound.The debiliating line is a joke in its current form we are not debuffers it s not our job to deal a pathetic debuff. we are not anyclose to any half decent DPS dealer, we are lagging a little more now in tanking abiliti compare to guardians. I dont see us getting any kind of improvements anymore <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.Once again i will say it : FUCQ PVP

[Necodem]

<DIV>EoF AA zerk = craps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mainly all EoF AA for each class get enhancement for skills/spells. So yes not a lot of utility for all class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But for the last abilities granted in EoF AA tree, zerker get really craps abitilies :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-We got a +100 regen hp when we are low hp rofl, regen hp is useless and it only give bonus when you're low hp rofl.</DIV> <DIV>-We get a bonus for our AE + taunt resistance bonus, rofl again.</DIV> <DIV>-We get a 1 time absorb all spell dmg, not that bad...</DIV> <DIV>-We get a +17% dps and haste for 10s all 1min 30 rofl...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So for zerk the only useful thing are the third line ( a least useful for PvP), I'd put all other points in juggernaud, open wound and destruction enhancement...</DIV>

[Jimbo]

<DIV>I am a 2nd MT and from my experience with Gut Roar is its kinda tricky.  I have been testing this with various raid mobs and it works well as long as you time the ae just right.  I dont think it works for dot type aoes and most definately not melee ae.  I usually use this skill when our MT pulls the mob and I'll cast on it before it comes in.  The zone I find most effective is Inner Sanctum because most of their aes are spell based.  My only wish is maybe a longer duration on the spell or be able to buff ourselves with it (instead of mob) and have it knock off to tell us it worked.</DIV>

[Anjin]

<DIV>Not sure what you guys are complaining about.  My main is a monk, but atm I far prefer playing my 62 zerker because the KoS AA's are FAR better and the EoF lines are better.  I'm not saying nerf zerkers - far from it - just saying the nerf bat has not swung in your direction as it has to brawlers.  Brawlers used to be the best fighters DPS and the worst tanks, now we are (depending on AA lines) the 4/5th best dps and because our aggro control sucks, still crappy tanks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Long live the berserker, but realise that the berserker class is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing good atm.</DIV>

[zormik]

<P>ROFL,</P> <P>maybe try to compare zerks with guardians, not with a monk, that's a completely different archclass ...</P> <P>If you haven't been at lvl70 for a long time you have no idea what the possibilities of a zerk were and what they are now.<BR>We got smacked hard this xpack and keep on getting smacked hard.</P> <P>- mitigationcurve<BR>- mitibuffs doing practically nothing because of the curve<BR>- no offensive skill buffs, so we can't hit crap in defensive<BR>- our class defining berserk buff nerfed to the point it can only proc half the time where it used to be on all the time<BR>- eof aa's that don't do jack<BR>- the reason why we were seen as overpowered was the bucklerline, they adressed that problem you can't raidtank anymore with a buckler.<BR>- ...</P><p>Message Edited by zormik on <span class=date_text>12-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:29 AM</span>

[Anjin]

<DIV>Why would you want to raid tank after choosing the buckler line?  It's like saying I want great dps AND be able to be the best tank!!  If you want to raid tank you need to choose the best lines for raid tanking and IMO an amazing DPS line is not one of them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You want everything!  You don't realise how good berserkers still are, you can still raid MT and you can still do great DPS.  As far as mitigation is concerned, monks have the same issue with avoidance - i.e. you need to strive for more avoidance and monks more mitigation - simple.  You mention no offensive skill buffs - you think you have a problem?  Monks main source of aggro is their hate proc chance on aa hit - when we are tanking in def stance we can't even hit to gain hate and we generate around 2/3 of our dps through auto attacks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not sure about you, but our zerkers have no problem raid tanking atm - we're on the same server so you probably know them......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[zormik]

<DIV>Erm i stated the bucklerline was overpowered for MT raids...  Don't know what you're getting at then lol :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am a raid MT too and i still tank, allthough i'm not in a hardcore raid.  I can still do my job but the reason for continueing to work with a zerker MT are diminishing and that's not fair... (a guardian just got more and better tools for it and they got more enhanced in this xpack)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, yes we can tank.  But the difference between a zerker and a guardian is getting bigger and bigger by giving the guardian more offensive and defensive edges and giving the zerk, well not much usefull ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only reason i'm still tanking is because of experience, equipment and being pretty much mastered out helps too...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not gonna argue about monks because that's another discussion that should be held in another forum.  Not this one ...</DIV><p>Message Edited by zormik on <span class=date_text>12-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:05 PM</span>

[Necodem]

<DIV>I don't care if Guardian are better tank than Zerk. </DIV> <DIV>But our EoF is almost useless.... differences between 0 AA EoF zerk and 50 EoF zerk is almost equal to 0, we got nothing to be better tank or better DPS.</DIV>

[Jvaloth]

<DIV>bleh NT. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All the complaining in the world wont fix the AA system.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Did enough of that in beta to present. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm out of breath.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What is, is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE truely is just clueless.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Jvaloth on <span class=date_text>12-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:30 PM</span>

[kenm]

<div></div>Unyielding Will is awesome for soloing named heroics, and certainly has its uses in raids now that it doesn't kill you right after.  Rest of the AAs are pretty much pure garbage.I'm actually noticing Spring-Loaded Gnomish Silts being more useful than all the EoF zerker AAs. <span>:smileyvery-happy:... <span>:smileyindifferent:</span>... <span>:smileysad:</span></span><div></div>