Need help with Zerker AA placement (higher lvl zerkers please help)

[Velt]

<DIV>I am a 39 zerker with 29 aa atm. They are placed in Wis 4 4 8 8. My problem is I dont know where to place the rest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im a Def only zerker  and therefore dont want to go STA line for the buckler , as i will loose alot of protection due to me useing a tower shield(more prot) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>most likely will not raid and just happy to MT for groups.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wuld like input form higher lvl zerkers on where to place the rest of my aa.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gangraff</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>39 Fae Zerker</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mistmoore</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Huna]

<DIV>If you don't like stamina, then I would say either the str for the hate gain, crits, and more power.  Or the Int for the parry increase.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But, for group stuff, the stamina line would be fine in my opinion.</DIV>

[zormik]

<DIV>I MT raids with a buckler.  A buckler is more then good enough for heroic content.  Not using it means not using your zerk to his full capabilities.  A zerk is the offensive tank.  If that means i have to run around with a buckler then i'll happily do that if my dps gets boosted by 30% ...</DIV>

[Conjourer]

<P>To buckler or not to buckler...that is the question....</P> <P> </P> <P>I have asked it many times, and I have thouroughly tested both. I prefer the Stam line because I believe that the Zerk is made to dps. Dps is our main form of hate...we are not guardians. If we don't dps, we don't hold hate....just wait till you are grouping with 70 wizards who catalyst and free hand sorcery...you will have a hard time holding agro, in your groups. You can't Gibe every fight...its situational, and now that the combat has been changed, you almost don't want to gibe more then one group of Heroics anymore...you just take to much damage...even at the highest levels of play...at the very least in a group with say a fury as the only healer...get too many heroic encounters on you at once, and your gonna be reviving...</P> <P>The deal with Tower vs Buckler has been explained many times here, but I will give you the synapsis. Bucklers, on their own, only have about a 5% chance to block, where as a Tower shield has about 15% chance to block (not taking into account differences in quality of shield from treasured to fabled). I have a Vilucidaes Guard which is a level 70 Fabled Tower shield, and I have an Iron Plate of Shielding which is a Legendary Buckler. If I equip my Tower sheild, I gain 19% Block, and as we all know Block is uncontested, frontal avoidance, and with Tower my total avoidance is about 5% higher then it is if I go down Stam line with my Buckler, putting points in as follows 4-4-8-8. 5% total Avoidance is good, don't get my wrong, but what do I loose in exchange? 79% chance to double attack. Double attack is huge...but I will just leave it at that, though I will say its not about showing off on parses, or dpsing for dps sake, its about hate, agro and keeping it through a fight. </P> <P>With the amount of resists I am seeing to Taunt (around the 50% mark at the moment) and with no clear message from SoE as to how to make taunt resisted less, all I can do to gain hate is to max my plus slashing, crushing, piercing skills and dps like a fiend. Can I do that with a Tower Shield? Well you can do dps with a tower, but you can not do as well as a buckler and Sta...no matter what other AA lines you choose. Str is a great line, don't get me wrong, but its lacking a defensive position as the other lines have. The def position on the Str line is a Hate Mod...and it just doesn't make up the difference in my experience. Str Line is for Guardians, just as Towers are...they have a bazillion taunts to hold agro, and let the other classes do the dps, we are Zerkers, we have to dps...</P> <P> </P> <P>Well anyway, thats my 2cps...Towers are great, but if you notice almost everyone that is a proponent of the Non Stamina lines uses a 2 hander or dual weild to dps....and even swtiches out tanking with out a tower until they get to a named or something...in my eyes that defeats the purpose of even having the tower in your bag, when you could just go buckler and tank every thing with the extra block chance, and might I add usually out dps the guy with the 2 hander or dual wield, depending on the quality of your 1hander vs 2 hander/dual wield...</P> <P>There is no group content in the game that can't be tanked with a buckler in hand..Even Mistmoore Castle, Nizara, HoF, Valdoons, Obelisk of Blight....I have tanked it all with my pizza pan strapped to my arm *smirks*..</P> <P>Syrius Silverblade</P> <P>70/69 Zerker</P> <P>Venekor</P>

[Kage8]

I have been playing my Zerker for almost 2 years now. I know how you feel about the Sta line and i feel the same way. Useing a buckler sux and it looks horrible on a Zerker.Now with that said the Sta line is by far the best way to go for any Zerker Tank or dps.....My Zerker looses 300 Protection with the Buckler and that dont = to alot ( I dont know the excact % but my protection gets to 6k so 300 aint ganna make or break me)Now the Parcers dont work atm so i dont know about Post-expansion but b4 the expansion i parced way more with my Cudgle of pain and Sta line that with the 2hrs and other dps lines.Now if you wanna avoid the sta line just cause it looks stupid, and it does, then i would do the following....Str - 4-4-8-8.....Wis 4-4-8-8....thats gives u +22% crit chance, +10% hate increase.....+24% dps and 314 mit.....thats a real good spec....not sure the the numbers are excact but they are close, and put the remaining pts where ever you like.<div></div>

[Velt]

<P>Syrius,</P> <P>Thank you for  your reply. I just want to be a good tank, but I just dont want to be too squishy for the healers. Have your healers err compitent healers had any real problems( group wise) healing you with a buckler Vs. tower ? I just want to get all this info  so I can better help my group. </P> <P>The only reason I brought this up is that alot of the upper lvl tower have about 1200 protection, while im only seeing about 400 on a buckler. Thats a nice chunk of protection going out the door and making me softer and I just didnt want to be a mana sink on the healer(s). I will give it a go and see how it turns out.</P> <P>Gangraff</P> <P>39 Fae Zerker</P> <P>Mistmoore</P>

[Wargurine]

Actually, parsers (at least ACT anyways) where fixed prior to the launch of EoF. You just have to download the updated version.I for one am parsing way lower since the expansion than before, and my parses are fluctuating really badely, kinda like my hp's spike really bad sometimes now too =p<div></div>

[Conjourer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Velt wrote:<BR> <P>Syrius,</P> <P>Thank you for  your reply. I just want to be a good tank, but I just dont want to be too squishy for the healers. Have your healers err compitent healers had any real problems( group wise) healing you with a buckler Vs. tower ? I just want to get all this info  so I can better help my group. </P> <P>The only reason I brought this up is that alot of the upper lvl tower have about 1200 protection, while im only seeing about 400 on a buckler. Thats a nice chunk of protection going out the door and making me softer and I just didnt want to be a mana sink on the healer(s). I will give it a go and see how it turns out.</P> <P>Gangraff</P> <P>39 Fae Zerker</P> <P>Mistmoore</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well if your only looking at the protection value on the shields then yeah, your gonna see a huge difference, but your not getting all the facts. Stam line has a def position, first position is stam added, second position is buckler reversal, third posisiont is double attack and fourth position is the def position of the line. If you place 8 points in the def position of the Sta line you will be gaining an extra 5% chance to block with your Buckler, this helps to bring your avoidance up and brings bucklers up from 5% chance to about a 10 % chance. Additionally you gain a 5% chance to riposte attacks, and a 5% chance to parry attacks from the rear quadrants. Placing 8 points into the def position on the sta tree effectively increases your 360 degree avoidance substantially...this makes up for almost all of the Block chance you give up by not using the Tower. Further more, alot of the time I find that some mobs will be behind me, or on the rear sides when I gibe and go rambo (open wounds + destruction), at least until I can herd them better, and I like having the extra 360 degree avoidance as Block is only frontal.</P> <P>I have never gotten a complaint from healers about being too squishy, and only had one noobie ask me if I had a tower shield for a named, in HoF...With EoF changes I am at 60% mit self buffed, with 45% total avoidance. I can tank every thing, no worries. My stats are not incredible comparatively, there are alot of zerkers with better mit and avoidance...I don't have a ton of raid gear. </P> <P>Gangraff you have to make this decision for yourself, you have all the facts I can give you. It all boils down to how you prefer to play...but also what gear you have at your dispossal plays a big part. If it were me, I would take Sta over any other line in the KoS tree, and this is from extensive experimenting...I have tried it all...I have respeced so many times its 10 pp a shot now...</P> <P> </P> <P>Syrius</P>

[Trynnus1]

<P>I agree with Syrius about Damage being the key</P> <P>I am Str 4-4-8, Sta 4-4-8, Wis 4-4-8 - I spec'd for max DPS before EoF and had no issues tanking in off stance with my 2 hander (except raiding labs as MT or HoF named). After EoF, I did crypt last night with my 2 hander in Def stance because my sword and board just does not cut it in my guild group - I lose aggro to quickly to the wizzy or monk. Our taunts are resisted over 50% of the time now - 3 ADP3 and 2 Master 1 taunts btw - our only other means of aggro control is damage. I am not in fabled gear and had to get some adornments to boost my mit and strength, but crypts (lvl70 instance) was doable with 1 mystic (excellent guild healer).</P> <P>I think most will agree with me that the zerker community is hoping for some changes soon.</P>

[Velt]

<P>Syrius,</P> <P>I really can not thank you enough for the help you have given me. I really do appreciate your explanation (sp) on this topic.</P> <P>Gangraff</P>

[terrified kill]

<div><blockquote><hr>Velt wrote:<div></div> <p>Syrius,</p> <p>Thank you for  your reply. I just want to be a good tank, but I just dont want to be too squishy for the healers. Have your healers err compitent healers had any real problems( group wise) healing you with a buckler Vs. tower ? I just want to get all this info  so I can better help my group. </p> <p>The only reason I brought this up is that alot of the upper lvl tower have about 1200 protection, while im only seeing about 400 on a buckler. Thats a nice chunk of protection going out the door and making me softer and I just didnt want to be a mana sink on the healer(s). I will give it a go and see how it turns out.</p> <p>Gangraff</p> <p>39 Fae Zerker</p> <p>Mistmoore</p><hr></blockquote>sounds like you should have become a guardian</div>

[FightGame]

<DIV>Nothing wrong with a defensive berserker.  We are a tad more offensive than a guard, but doesn't mean we are a real offensive class.  You say he should have been a guard, well maybe you should have been bruiser or a monk? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To the OP, even in legendary equipment you should be able to tank all heroic instances just fine with a buckler and 1 healer.  You'll do about 20-30% more total DPS and this will help alot to hold aggro, even more so if you don't have a class in your group to transfer aggro.  And you kill faster too of course.  You lose about 3% avoidance going from 1300 protection to 400, which isn't gonna break you.  But if you want the most avoidance possible, then after wisdom for mit, I would say intelligence for parry.  You will also pick up alot of haste there.  You could also go agility for the defense, but defense is easier to cap than parry, and there are more items with +defense than +parry.  I would NOT suggest strength for the hate, because if it's hate you want, then you will get more hate from stamina line (buckler tho) because mobs hate 76% double attack more than 10% more hate.  Tested.</DIV>

[HcGlaber]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trynnus1 wrote:<BR> <P>I agree with Syrius about Damage being the key</P> <P>I am Str 4-4-8, Sta 4-4-8, Wis 4-4-8 - I spec'd for max DPS before EoF and had no issues tanking in off stance with my 2 hander (except raiding labs as MT or HoF named). After EoF, I did crypt last night with my 2 hander in Def stance because my sword and board just does not cut it in my guild group - I lose aggro to quickly to the wizzy or monk. Our taunts are resisted over 50% of the time now - 3 ADP3 and 2 Master 1 taunts btw - our only other means of aggro control is damage. I am not in fabled gear and had to get some adornments to boost my mit and strength, but crypts (lvl70 instance) was doable with 1 mystic (excellent guild healer).</P> <P>I think most will agree with me that the zerker community is hoping for some changes soon.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>??</P> <P>Don't you only get the double attack chance with a buckler equiped?</P> <P>Did they change it?</P>

[Syracus]

Hiho Zerker Brother!Here my personal AA build Wis 4 4 8 8 8Str 4 4 8 1Take wis-line endabi !A defense stance without skill penalty is a must have since LU 29.You will need every attack skill you can get to hit as offen as possible to build and hold agro especially if you see yourself in a tanking role.(Beside this a offense stance without penaltys isnt to bad too <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)GronkhLevel 70 Ogre Berserker on Valor

[uux]

<div><blockquote><font color="#666600">Syracus wrote:</font><font color="#666600"></font><font color="#666600">Hiho Zerker Brother!</font><font color="#666600"></font><font color="#666600"></font><font color="#666600">Here my personal AA build </font><font color="#666600"></font><font color="#666600"></font><font color="#666600">Wis 4 4 8 8 8</font><font color="#666600"></font><font color="#666600">Str 4 4 8 1</font><font color="#666600"></font><font color="#666600"></font><font color="#666600">Take wis-line endabi !</font></blockquote>I did the same thing.  Not having penalties on the stances was more important to me, even before EoF.  My current build is as follows:<font face="Courier New" size="3">AGI 4 4 8WIS 4 4 8 4 8INT 4 1The +dps from the WIS line, the +haste from Accelerated Strike (INT; requires use of a sword), and the AoE proc from the AGI line add quite a bit of DPS with a good 2H.  I used to group with a warlock all the time and keeping AoE aggro was something I wanted to improve upon further.</font><blockquote><font color="#666600">A defense stance without skill penalty is a must have since LU 29.</font><font color="#666600"></font><font color="#666600"></font><font color="#666600">You will need every attack skill you can get to hit as offen as possible to build and hold agro especially if you see yourself in a tanking role.</font><font color="#666600"></font><font color="#666600"></font><font color="#666600">(Beside this a offense stance without penaltys isnt to bad too <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</font><font color="#666600"></font><font color="#666600"></font></blockquote>It's not too bad at all!  It makes tanking in the offensive stance even more viable.</div>

[DrRothchild]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Syracus wrote:<BR>Hiho Zerker Brother!<BR><BR>Here my personal AA build <BR><BR>Wis 4 4 8 8 8<BR>Str 4 4 8 1<BR><BR>Take wis-line endabi !<BR><BR>A defense stance without skill penalty is a must have since LU 29.<BR><BR>You will need every attack skill you can get to hit as offen as possible to build and hold agro especially if you see yourself in a tanking role.<BR><BR>(Beside this a offense stance without penaltys isnt to bad too <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)<BR><BR><BR>Gronkh<BR>Level 70 Ogre Berserker on Valor<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>This is the build I'm using as well. If you don't want a buckler, I think this is the way to go IMHO<BR>

[Xita]

<P>just recently respeced back to the buckler and str for holding aggro through dps, was a huge help. one thing also to consider when thinking about loss of defense, (small amounts) the net result is the power your healers uses per second of a fight increases slightly, but also the damage output of you AND ALL DPS classes goes up as well, so the fights are shorter. I did some unscientific parsing and noted that my total group DPS went up by about 15% when i went back to buckler, healers werent running out of power, and the dungeon cleared quicker (more trinkets per hour).</P> <P>Plus it is just kinda cool to do all that damage and soak up all those hits.... <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P>

[Conjourer]

<P>Getting around the penalty of D Stance isn't that tough really, I have DeathTrance ((earring with +6 slash, crush, pierce / drops in HoF, very rare drop)), New BP from Valdoons +1 Slash, Crush, Pierce, New Cloak +5 slash, crush, pierce...puts the penalty of D stance at -5 to those listed abilities...add a warden to the group with their buff and you don't even need the gear, I usually sit at 428 slash crush pierce with my warden healing me, with full penalties of D stance...and the 8 points I don't spend on the Wis Ultimate is better spent, for me, on defense in Sta line, or Mit in Wis Line...but I did test Wis Ultimate, and to me getting rid of the defense pennalty of O stance was way more important then the D stance penalty....Just my oppinion.</P> <P>Since LU 29 our Slash, Crush, Pierce is soooooo important, if you can't find the gear to offset D stance, then it may be essential to go with Wis Ultimate....but 17 points of a penalty isn't the end of the world, I find myself switching out stances alot more then before however, to gain the agro boost during fights....Master 1 O stance for Encounter Agro, because of the proc and added chance to hit, is so huge now though....I can see why people would go the Wis Ultimate route and not look back too often...</P> <P> </P> <P>To the OP, thanks for the kind words, glad I could help ya, I have spent alot of time obsessing over these things, way more then I would like to admit too actually....might as well help someone with the decisions if I can...</P> <P> </P> <P>Syrius</P>

[Conjourer]

<DIV>Oh, wanted to add, I did some parsing the other day during a fight against the final boss of Obelisk, fight lasted an average amount of time for this kind of mob, and I swung 4233 times, and only connected about 3100 times...thats over 1k missess during one fight...with an offensive boost from a Warden putting my slashing skill well over 420...This is insane to me....1000 missed swings...Can't even imagine, or don't want to imagine what the number would of been if I was sitting at 345 slashing skill from no warden buff...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Syrius</DIV>

[Velt]

<P>LOL and everyone says we got nerfed. Last night in RV, Me 41 zerker(non rare gear),45 temp,39 bruiser,40 lock,39 ranger and 40 Wiz  were tearing night bloods up, just pulled a 43^^^ when the ranger caught agro of the 37X2 that roams the area. With those 2 mobs beating on me I had no prob tanking or keeping agro( go go buckler reversal) at end of fight noone had any power and I had about 300hp left. Too [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] close but, I was able to do my job =).</P> <P>Never liked tanking( 63 bruiser main-retired since EoF), but the Fae and the Zerker class have added alot of spice to the game and I'm loving every minute of it. Only thing I dont like is how the higher lvls get duped out of AA. My now 42 zerker has 36AA more then my 63 bruiser and 60 brig combined.</P> <P>But what I'm trying to get at is if I had not went down Sta line I think we would have wiped,because the group was a full dps group and the damage output was pretty amazing. Keeping that agro would have allmost been impossible without it.</P> <P> </P> <P>Gangraff  42/36 </P> <P>Mistmoore's second highest Fae</P> <P>Mistmoore's top Fae zerker =)</P> <P> </P>

[Conjourer]

<P>Yeah Gangraff....welcome to the world of Double Attack my friend!!!</P> <P> </P> <P>Syrius</P>