Beserker EoF AAs

[Bremer]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>Beserker AA Spell information and names are as seen by my lvl 70 Zerker today, numbers are rounded.Everythings costs 1 point per rank if nothing else is said. You have to spend 3 point in an enhancement to unlock the next.To unlock the final abiltiy you have to spend 20 points in the line. Each costs 5 points.<img src="http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/5079/aa1yp5.jpg"> <font color="#ff0000">Debilitation-line</font><font color="#ff0000"> </font><font color="#ff0000"> </font><font color="#ff0000">Enhance Violent Pledge: Increase damange and taunt amount by 3 % per rank (5 ranks)</font><font color="#ff0000"><i> </i> </font><font color="#ff0000"> </font><font color="#ff0000">Enhance Persistent Battering: Increase offensive skill reduction by 10 % per rank (5 ranks) </font><font color="#ff0000"> </font><font color="#ff0000">Enhance Agonizing Press: Increase Duartion by 0.2 seconds per rank (5 ranks) </font><font color="#ff0000"> </font><font color="#ff0000">Enhance Disfigure: Increase attack speed reduction by 1 % (5 ranks)</font><font color="#ff0000"> </font><font color="#ff0000"> </font><font color="#ff0000">Enhance Ruthless Strike: Increases casting skill reduction by 10 % and improves reuse speed by 1 second per rank (5 ranks) </font><font color="#ff0000"> </font><font color="#ff0000">Enhance Demolish: Increase duartion by 0.3 seconds per rank (5 ranks) </font><font color="#ff0000"> </font><font color="#ff0000">Gut Roar: Provides a 100 % chance to Counter the effects of all damage spells 1 time, 15 sec duration (1 rank, 5 points, 60 sec recast)</font> <font color="#33ccff">Perseverance:</font><font color="#33ccff"> </font><font color="#33ccff"> </font><font color="#33ccff">Enhance Mayhem: Improves reuse speed by 3 seconds per rank (5 ranks) </font><font color="#33ccff"> </font><font color="#33ccff">Enhance Combative Rage: Increase regeneartion by 6 % per rank (5 ranks)</font><font color="#33ccff"> </font><font color="#33ccff"> </font><font color="#33ccff">Enhance Blood Craze: Increase regeneration by 10 % per rank (5 ranks) </font><font color="#33ccff"> </font><font color="#33ccff">Enhance Surpressed Rage: Reduce penalties by 20 % per rank (5 ranks)</font><font color="#33ccff"> </font><font color="#33ccff"> </font><font color="#33ccff">Enhance Unyielding will: Don't die if beserk (1 rank, 5 points)</font><font color="#33ccff"> </font><font color="#33ccff"> </font><font color="#33ccff">Enhance Vision of Madness: Improves reuse speed by 100 seconds per rank (5 ranks)</font><font color="#33ccff"> </font><font color="#33ccff"> </font><font color="#33ccff">Perseverance: Increase health regeneration of caster by 100 if under 25 % health (1 rank, 5 points) </font> <font color="#ffff00">Bulking:</font><font color="#ffff00"> </font><font color="#ffff00"> </font><font color="#ffff00">Enhance Engulfing Rage: Increase trigger chance by 1 % per rank (5 ranks) </font><font color="#ffff00"> </font><font color="#ffff00">Enhance War Cry: Increase trigger chance by 1 % per rank (3 ranks, 2 points) </font><font color="#ffff00"> </font><font color="#ffff00">Enhance Weapon Aegis: Improves reuse speed by 2 per rank (5 ranks) </font><font color="#ffff00"> </font><font color="#ffff00">Enhance Juggernaut: Increase duration by 2 seconds per rank  (5 ranks) </font><font color="#ffff00"> </font><font color="#ffff00">Beserk: Go instantly Beserk for 10 seconds (17 haste/dps at lvl 70)  (1 rank, 5 points, 90 sec recast)</font> <font color="#66ff33">Cyclone</font><font color="#66ff33"> </font><font color="#66ff33"> </font><font color="#66ff33">Enhance Bloodbath: Increases damage by 5 % per rank (5 ranks) </font><font color="#66ff33"> </font><font color="#66ff33">Enhance Wall of Ferocity: Increases durationby 3 seconds (5 ranks)</font><font color="#66ff33"> </font><font color="#66ff33"> </font><font color="#66ff33">Enhance Stunning Howl: Increases damage by 5 % (5 ranks)</font><font color="#66ff33"> </font><font color="#66ff33"> </font><font color="#66ff33">Enhance Beserker Onslaught: Increases damagy by 5 % (5 ranks)</font><font color="#66ff33"> </font><font color="#66ff33"> </font><font color="#66ff33">Enhance Destruction: Improves reuse speed by 5 seconds per rank (5 ranks) </font><font color="#66ff33"> </font><font color="#66ff33">Enhance Open Wounds: Improves reuse speed by 5 seconds per rank (5 ranks)</font><font color="#66ff33"> </font><font color="#66ff33"> </font><font color="#66ff33">Cyclones: Increase radius of AE combat arts by 5 (1 rank)</font><font color="#66ff33"><i></i></font><div></div><p>Nachricht bearbeitet von Bremer am <span class=date_text>11-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:49 AM</span>

[KFizzle]

<DIV>Theres so many friggen posts on this stuff... I would like to see this combined with uh ... [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] sorry i am spacing on your name but you'll know who you are by this "The funky green text dude"'s post. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But i have a question, how much do you have to put into the prerequisites of things point wise, how much to the 'ultimate' things cost and whats the prereq's for things. I am not on test or beta or whatever and just kinda curious cause i see stuff here and there that i like but i dont know if i can cherry pick much, or if its like the EoF stuff where i have to get EVERYTHING before it to a certain level to get something. </DIV>

[Dimgl]

<P><FONT color=#00cc99>There's currently three versions of the EOF AAs listed, and these are the most up to date from what I can tell.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#00cc99>I'm really dissapointed in the gigantic nerf that Improved Juggernaut just took. Also notice that Gut Roar is now combat arts only, and doesn't counter spells. A few other abilities got (very much needed) improvements, but overall this is still dissapointing. The really poor talents like Improved Demolish, the regeneration boosters (now we'll have the dubious honor of being able to nearly reach regen cap alone, reducing our benefit from grouping with a class like Fury), and the insultingly bad ultimates in Perseverance and Cyclone still exist.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#00cc99>When there's a V3 (if there is going to be a V3 before EOF is released) I will try to get Conjourer to give me info, and do a final analysis with suggestions, but this V2 leaves almost the exact same problems intact, though it has made significant improvements to many skills, especially Suppressed Rage and the Debilitation Tree.</FONT></P>

[Bremer]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>kfizzle schrieb:<div>But i have a question, how much do you have to put into the prerequisites of things point wise, how much to the 'ultimate' things cost and whats the prereq's for things.</div><hr></blockquote>Just look at the first 5 lines of my post <span>:smileywink:</span>Updated the final abilities, all have now only 1 rank, cost 5 points and require 20 points in the line to be unlocked. Perseverance has benn improved. Also updated the picture, Wall of Ferocity now has the correct icon.</div><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Nachricht bearbeitet von Bremer am <span class=date_text>11-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:53 AM</span>

[KFizzle]

<DIV>LOL Damnit Bremer, that insane image of our AA lines just drew me past your text...i couldnt focus other than thinking "Ok wait....wait...how the....what the......" it's like a road map to Fallujah. Its like there will be two different AA's leading to one and such, like if thats the case do i have to have both of the ones pointing to the one further down the line? Sorry i didnt notice the 3 per thing, i have a habit of not actually reading at times and just looking at pictures ... popup books for teh win.</DIV>

[Hohum]

<DIV>Didn't Juggernaut used to have it's dibilitating effects lessened originally per level?  <BR><BR>Why has it been nerfed.  What would of been beneficial for this skill and make it useable has been removed.  Someone's adamant for it not to be used. I mean, why would you want it to last 10 seconds more than normal?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It has to be the only CA i've used which I end up cancelling as soon as it was casted each time. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bah!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for the info though.  More decisions to decide what to take now. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ho</DIV><p>Message Edited by hohum3 on <span class=date_text>11-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:26 PM</span>

[Bremer]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>kfizzle schrieb:<div>LOL Damnit Bremer, that insane image of our AA lines just drew me past your text...i couldnt focus other than thinking "Ok wait....wait...how the....what the......" it's like a road map to Fallujah. Its like there will be two different AA's leading to one and such, like if thats the case do i have to have both of the ones pointing to the one further down the line? Sorry i didnt notice the 3 per thing, i have a habit of not actually reading at times and just looking at pictures ... popup books for teh win.</div><hr></blockquote>You spend 3 points on an enhancement, then the yellow lines leading to the enhancements under the current one become green and you can spend points on the unlocked enhancements. It's like the KoS achievments, only you can now take different routes through the tree.And Juggernaut, no idea what's going on in the dev's heads. You could half the penalties, which made no sense because only a penalty free Juggernaut could be useful while tanking. So they removed this and now you can increase the duration, so the spell remain crap for every tanking Zerker.</div><p>Nachricht bearbeitet von Bremer am <span class=date_text>11-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:59 PM</span>

[KFizzle]

<DIV>So its still like i only need one thing, just i can get there a little differently now...thats cool at least. So like if i like one thing but need to take one of two different things first and i got the connection thing, i can basically just pick the one of the two i like better. Perfect.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Honestly, the AA's arent all bad like this, i mean sure only some seem to make sense, but thats kinda how the KoS stuff seemed to me. I dont know how too many other classes AA's but it seems people are kinda up in the air about most from those i've talked to in my guild. I have another 70, a Mystic, and the AA's are 'good' but not exactly great in my opinion. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mean it's really hard for me to judge the effectiveness when i know they like reduced a ton of other things and 'rebalanced' things and such. I mean how much/less will Mayhem help me now with the higher cap, but reduced mitigation% due to that, but then the reduced return, and in a raid setup. I mean if they were needing to do the revamp anyway for future progression I guess its good we got the AA's rather than just the 'nerfs' that woulda happened by the revamp. </DIV>

[Bremer]

There's no need trying to find the best way through the lines now. Because the final ablities now cost 20 points the will revamp the trees, add abilities (and hopefully make the crappy worthwhile) and so on. The release is in a far away future, so they have plenty of time to test and balance everything and finish it before the release.<div></div>

[Wargurine]

4 days isn't far in the future hehe, and holy [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], the finally abilities cost 20 points now?<div></div>

[Ryugu]

theres 4 lines, he means that to unlock each lines final ability, you need to spend 20 points in total to unlock that (within that line, its almost the same as the KoS lines, (IE 24 points to unlock the final ability in one line)<div></div>

[Bremer]

Here's the new tree:<img src="http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9934/aamr7.jpg">The same useless abilities like before, the same bugs, nothing improved, no idea why they changed the tree at all. I really hoped they would see what crap the tree is and give us something usefull...<div></div>

[Dimgl]

<DIV><FONT color=#00cc99>This tree is definitely an improvement in so much as it improves the freedom of the player to take many different paths. However if the shape is the only thing that changed it is still a fairly hollow container...</FONT></DIV>

[LygerT]

<DIV>just when i was hoping for something to make up for our lack of abilities in general you guys had to hand me a full can of bring me down. =(</DIV>

[Nembutal]

I am still horribly dissapointed... and I have looked at all the classes AA's at this point and seen some great stuff for many classes (although usually not in thier "strong suit" like healers get nukes... not heals... and tanks get DPS not MIT... and mages get utility.. not nukes.) but Zerkers seem to have faired the worst.<div></div>

[atjtennis]

I agree with Dim about the only good thing is that it is easier to get to a few abilities now without wasting point sin others. But overall not impressed with the tree and the end 4 abilities are just very very sad

[Conjourer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>My build according to the current Tree on Beta now:</P> <P>Mayhem-2</P> <P>Wall of Ferocity-5</P> <P>Berserker Barrage-3</P> <P>Open Wounds-5</P> <P>Destruction-5</P> <P>Violent Pledge-5</P> <P>Persist Bat-3</P> <P>Agonizing Press-3</P> <P>Disfigure - 3</P> <P>Ruthless Strike - 3</P> <P>Demolish - 3</P> <P>Gutroar- 5 (only Ultimate worth having)</P> <P>War Cry-5</P> <P>Thats 50 points spent...gives me dps group utility, longer duration/faster recast on my two mit temps, beter damage and hate on my most used damage spells via Debilitation, decreased recast timers on my rambo, and an ultimate that will counter CA/Spells unleashed on me...</P> <P>I am sure there are other builds that would do something people might like beter, but this is my plan, as it is now...</P> <P>Syrius Silverblade</P> <P>70/50 Zerker</P> <P>Venekor</P> <P><BR> </P><p>Message Edited by Conjourer on <span class=date_text>11-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:42 AM</span>

[Nembutal]

<div></div>I used the tree pretty non-standard like... fliping through 1 section only to branch off into a different section of the tree to grab 1 skill I wanted etc to avoid getting something "[Removed for Content]"... basically I branched off from ruthless strike and went up and to the right to war cry... like Conj did above me.  I didn't copy.. I did mine then looked at his and noticed he did the same thing.  Originally I did the same to jump from combative range to deeper into the cyclone tree at beserker onslaught... but at the end I had 5 points left over and couldn't think of anywhere better to put them than bloodbath ;-pI personally avoid using 3's to advance a chain... my feeling is 3 is a pretty healthy investment and even if the ability is partially "teh sux0rs" that I now have more of a reason to push it... so might as well take it to 5.Anyway... here it is...<p>Mayhem (temp MIT) – 5Combative Rage (group regen) – 5</p><p>Bloodbath (circular AE) - 5Beserker Onslaught (frontal cone AE) – 5Destruction (rampage 1) – 5Open wounds (rampage 2) – 5</p><p>Violent pledge (taunt) – 5Agonizing press (stun) – 5Ruthless Strike (stifle) – 5</p><p>      </p><p>      V</p><p>War Cry (beserk proc) – 5</p>P.S. I 2 box a Fury so that impacted my decision a little bit but I don't think it strayed to much out of the norm so that people would look at it funny.  I just wanted high permanent regen (combative rage - bezerker and carnal mask - fury) and high beserk mode procs (war cry - beserker and agitate - fury) so both my trees were picked with that in mind... then I went after the other stuff.<div></div>

[atjtennis]

This is how I sued my 50 points in BEta and how I plan touse them in live right nowViolent Pledge 5Mayhem 5Engulfing Rage 5War Cry 5Bloodbath 5Unyielding Will 1 (5 points for 1 skill)Wall of Ferocity 5Onslaught 5Destruction 5Open WoundsI'm taking engulfing Rage and War Cry because I'm trying to counter the 'nerf' to goign berserk when not tnaking. It helps a little we'll see once it is liveI never even had Unyielding Will scribed till I saw it was a line in Beta so I never used the skill before and I still almost never use the skill now but I can see as the MT on raids where it can possibly help so we'll see. I also only changed to this once they changed the tree. If I don't see it working out I may pick up Weapon Aegis.

[Nembutal]

<div></div>nm... I see it.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Nembutal on <span class=date_text>11-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:15 PM</span>

[Spite]

<DIV>IMHO its totally broken (I bugged it as a matter of fact) The first ability of the cyclone line doesnt attach to any other cyclone AA's. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is that all about? I really hope its a bug cause if not its just plain old lazy poor design.</DIV>

[Nembutal]

Did you spend 1 point or 3 points?  You need to spend 3 points or sometimes even 5 points to go to the next item on the line.<div></div>

[LokiHellsson]

<P>I don't understand something.  I am reading some posts here that say the Zerker AA's are broken.  </P> <P>But there are AA's in there that increase damage 25% (with 5 ranks).   What's the difference between Ad3 and M1?  How about M1 and M2?  Less than 25% it seems to me.  So, we can take an M1 up to better than M2 and it's broken?  AD3 up to M2 and it's broken?  Ummm...so...what's it look like to you if it's fixed?  It doesn't look broken to me, but maybe I'm missing something.  Please enlighten me.</P> <P> </P>

[Nembutal]

<div></div>Well... part of it would be DPS isn't our job... we are good at it.. but it isn't our job.  I know all classes got like no boost to thier job though... so I am OK with that.Many of us are not MT... You can have excatly 1 MT at a time out of 24 people on a raid.... I die every night because I DPS too hard and generate too much aggro.So... Wow... 25% more dmg on a spell after hours... that means I can hit that key 2x less per fight because I will be laying down taking a dirt nap!  WOOHOO! thank god I earned that exp!A healer getting more DPS (I saw you are an Inq) will not get you killed... it's a nice soloing tool.... bumping up buffs is nice also... but the bezerker tree the whole thing is about adding DPS to a class that really doesn't need any more... if they had included a way to SHED aggro that would have been nice... but we don't have any way to do that... so by adding DPS it means I just don't hit certain Icons anymore... or I stare at Icons that are refreshed that i should not be hitting.I have basically gained 0% DPS on raids... because I am at a level where any more DPS is harmful to my toon.I have gained 0 defensive stuff that isn't short term buffs.I have gained 0 utility.I have gained nothing.Bruisers got an evade AND the ability to position the mob by locking onto them.... umm... ok... thanks for all the dev love.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Nembutal on <span class=date_text>11-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:21 PM</span>

[LokiHellsson]

<DIV>Skoshi,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for the thoughtful reply!  (I mean that, no irony).  My main is a healer, I've got a level 43 Zerker alt and a 68 Bruiser too.  Now and then, I run a friends' level 70 guardian.  (So, I know a little bit, not a lot, but a little bit) about tanking.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>It seems to me, given the current setup, Zerkers are DPS'ers.  (so are Bruisers).  When in the MT role, a big part of how a Zerker (or Bruiser) holds aggro is his DPS.  So, increasing the DPS significantly, increases the Zerker's ability to hold aggro.  I use my short-term buffs, they can (and do) make the difference between victory and defeat against named mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <DIV>How much DPS are you currently generating in raids with your zerker?  More than 2,000?  Raids I've attended have top people parsing 1200-1500 DPS and the tank has no trouble holding the aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In a raid, if you're pulling aggro because of your DPS, that's your MT groups fault, not yours.  As a Zerker (or Bruiser), in a properly functioning raid, there should be very little chance you will pull aggro and if you do, the problem is not yours.  In some situations, where the raid group is working together, we get a DPS monitor who calls out (on TS or Ventrillo) how much DPS we need to do and will instruct us to do more or less.  But those are not the norm.  The norm is an Assassin and Coercer focusing Master'd hate buffs on a Guardian (or Zerker or Paladin).  And, if the MT group is the job right, you won't be able to pull aggro with your current DPS or with 25% increase.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Wargurine]

<div><blockquote><hr>LokiHellsson wrote:<div><div> </div></div> <div>How much DPS are you currently generating in raids with your zerker?  More than 2,000?  Raids I've attended have top people parsing 1200-1500 DPS and the tank has no trouble holding the aggro.</div> <div> </div> <hr></blockquote>The differance between a necro/assassin and a zerker doing that kind of dps is that the necro/assassin has agro dumping tools, they can ditch signifigant amounts of aggro, especially if the assassin is xfering hate to a low dps class and the necro is with a troub. Thats why high dps zerkers rip aggro and why our class NEEDS a way to dump our aggro as the dev's push us more and more into a purely dps role.</div>

[Bremer]

A little math: Beserker Onslaught does about 1k dmg (more or less, somewhre in the middle betwenn 400 and 1400). Adding 25 % damage = 250 every 45 seconds, that's about 5 DPS more per target. OMG, 5 DPS, you will be so damned dead if are in DPS role and cast the enhanced spell.Same with Bloodbath and Stunning Howl, only a little less DPS gain.<div></div>

[infernus006]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>"our class NEEDS a way to dump our aggro as the dev's push us more and more into a purely dps role."Not really sure where you are coming from.  Berserkers do not need any "aggro dumping tools" whatsoever.  In fact, that is the very last thing we need.  IMO, if you are a Zerker that would prefer to gain an aggro dumping ability before anything else then I think there is something seriously wrong with the way you play your toon.  For one thing, any kind of aggro dump or transfer would completely defile the image of our class.  Why would any real Berserker be worried about how much his enemies hate him?  It wouldn't make any sense from an RP standpiont, that is for sure.  Face it, aggro dumping abilities are for scouts and mages, period.  None of the other fighter classes get one either, so why the hell should we?  Not even brawlers get one so why would they give one to a plate tank before a leather one that tends to do even more DPS than we do?  I also find it funny that with very new expansion that comes out there is always someone who is saying that the dev's are trying to push us more into a "purely DPS role" yet even after KoS we are still often being used as MT on endgame raids because we still wear plate armor and have taunts and we are still [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good tanks just like we always have been since the initial launch of the game, and to be honest I do not see that EVER changing.  Think about it, we are into 3 major expansions now and we are STILL plate tanks, the brother class of the Guardian, not a DPS class, despite all the rumors and speculation people like to spread around, so do you really think that is going to change now?  I think not.  Now if you are having really bad problems with stealing aggro from your MT on raids then perhaps you are doing something wrong, or maybe you should have a Guardian or a Pally (or maybe even an SK with the proper AA) try puting their deaggro spell on you and see if that helps.  Otherwise, if you're still not happy and want to play a pure DPS Zerker then go play Vanguard.  Because, to be quite honest, the thought of gaining an aggro dumping ability on my Zerker literally turns my stomach.  If anything I would like an ability to SIPHON hate from a comrade since I prefer to play my class the way it was meant to be played, as a main tank, whenever possible.<span></span><div></div><p>I would also like to say that as far as the EoF AA's currently stand for Berserkers, I think they look pretty decent from both a tanking and DPS/debuffing standpoint, so I am boggled as to why people are whining about them so much.  Perhaps there is still room for some improvement but so far I think they've done a pretty decent job on designing the new trees to suite whichever role you prefer to play in, whether it be in front or behind of the mobs. </p><p>Message Edited by infernus006 on <span class=date_text>11-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:00 PM</span>

[Trynnus1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> infernus006 wrote:<BR> "our class NEEDS a way to dump our aggro as the dev's push us more and more into a purely dps role."<BR><BR>Not really sure where you are coming from.  Berserkers do not need any "aggro dumping tools" whatsoever.  In fact, that is the very last thing we need.  IMO, if you are a Zerker that would prefer to gain an aggro dumping ability before anything else then I think there is something seriously wrong with the way you play your toon.  For one thing, any kind of aggro dump or transfer would completely defile the image of our class.  Why would any real Berserker be worried about how much his enemies hate him?  It wouldn't make any sense from an RP standpiont, that is for sure.  Face it, aggro dumping abilities are for scouts and mages, period.  None of the other fighter classes get one either, so why the hell should we?  Not even brawlers get one so why would they give one to a plate tank before a leather one that tends to do even more DPS than we do?  I also find it funny that with very new expansion that comes out there is always someone who is saying that the dev's are trying to push us more into a "purely DPS role" yet even after KoS we are still often being used as MT on endgame raids because we still wear plate armor and have taunts and we are still [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good tanks just like we always have been since the initial launch of the game, and to be honest I do not see that EVER changing.  Think about it, we are into 3 major expansions now and we are STILL plate tanks, the brother class of the Guardian, not a DPS class, despite all the rumors and speculation people like to spread around, so do you really think that is going to change now?  I think not.  Now if you are having really bad problems with stealing aggro from your MT on raids then perhaps you are doing something wrong, or maybe you should have a Guardian or a Pally (or maybe even an SK with the proper AA) try puting their deaggro spell on you and see if that helps.  Otherwise, if you're still not happy and want to play a pure DPS Zerker then go play Vanguard.  Because, to be quite honest, the thought of gaining an aggro dumping ability on my Zerker literally turns my stomach.  If anything I would like an ability to SIPHON hate from a comrade since I prefer to play my class the way it was meant to be played, as a main tank, whenever possible.<SPAN></SPAN> <P>I would also like to say that as far as the EoF AA's currently stand for Berserkers, I think they look pretty decent from both a tanking and DPS/debuffing standpoint, so I am boggled as to why people are whining about them so much.  Perhaps there is still room for some improvement but so far I think they've done a pretty decent job on designing the new trees to suite whichever role you prefer to play in, whether it be in front or behind of the mobs.<BR></P> <P>Message Edited by infernus006 on <SPAN class=date_text>11-14-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:00 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>First off Paragraphs are your friend. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Secondly - the avoidance tank classes do have an aggro dumping tool - its called FD. When I am in a group with Monk or bruiser friends i ask them to FD if they get aggro from DPSing. Save me from spaming taunts or switching targets.</P> <P>Finally, DPS helps us hold aggro and as a group MT we are gonna need it in this expansion - Wow - mobs in Crypt and Obliesk hit HARD like Nizara now.<BR></P>

[Wargurine]

<div><blockquote><hr>infernus006 wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>"our class NEEDS a way to dump our aggro as the dev's push us more and more into a purely dps role."Not really sure where you are coming from.  Berserkers do not need any "aggro dumping tools" whatsoever.  In fact, that is the very last thing we need.  IMO, if you are a Zerker that would prefer to gain an aggro dumping ability before anything else then I think there is something seriously wrong with the way you play your toon.  For one thing, any kind of aggro dump or transfer would completely defile the image of our class.  Why would any real Berserker be worried about how much his enemies hate him?  It wouldn't make any sense from an RP standpiont, that is for sure.  Face it, aggro dumping abilities are for scouts and mages, period.  None of the other fighter classes get one either, so why the hell should we?  Not even brawlers get one so why would they give one to a plate tank before a leather one that tends to do even more DPS than we do?  I also find it funny that with very new expansion that comes out there is always someone who is saying that the dev's are trying to push us more into a "purely DPS role" yet even after KoS we are still often being used as MT on endgame raids because we still wear plate armor and have taunts and we are still [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good tanks just like we always have been since the initial launch of the game, and to be honest I do not see that EVER changing.  Think about it, we are into 3 major expansions now and we are STILL plate tanks, the brother class of the Guardian, not a DPS class, despite all the rumors and speculation people like to spread around, so do you really think that is going to change now?  I think not.  Now if you are having really bad problems with stealing aggro from your MT on raids then perhaps you are doing something wrong, or maybe you should have a Guardian or a Pally (or maybe even an SK with the proper AA) try puting their deaggro spell on you and see if that helps.  Otherwise, if you're still not happy and want to play a pure DPS Zerker then go play Vanguard.  Because, to be quite honest, the thought of gaining an aggro dumping ability on my Zerker literally turns my stomach.  If anything I would like an ability to SIPHON hate from a comrade since I prefer to play my class the way it was meant to be played, as a main tank, whenever possible.<span></span><div></div><p>I would also like to say that as far as the EoF AA's currently stand for Berserkers, I think they look pretty decent from both a tanking and DPS/debuffing standpoint, so I am boggled as to why people are whining about them so much.  Perhaps there is still room for some improvement but so far I think they've done a pretty decent job on designing the new trees to suite whichever role you prefer to play in, whether it be in front or behind of the mobs. </p><p>Message Edited by infernus006 on <span class="date_text">11-14-2006</span> <span class="time_text">04:00 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Actually, not only do monks/bruisers get FD to dump thier aggro, the new bruiser AA's DO give them de-aggro'ing abilities, and none of our monks/bruisers come even close to my dps in our avg raid.And as to why I see the dev's pushing us into a dps role...my god dude open your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] eyes. "Supposedly" the EoF AA's was not designed to give you increases to your primary role...and yet Guards got a ton of AA to help them with thier tanking. With these new AA, guards really do have a noticable defensive edge againts us, while before now they didn't imo. Sorry, our class already does T1 dps, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] do we need more dps boosts for? /boggle</div>

[Kromus_1]

<P>Just one question,</P> <P>is this <FONT color=#ffff00>Beserk: Go instantly Beserk for 10 seconds (17 haste/dps at lvl 70)</FONT></P> <P>stacking with original berserk ability, i mean 29 (on master 2)+17 = 46?</P> <P>Thx for response.</P>

[infernus006]

<i>"mobs in Crypt and Obliesk hit HARD like Nizara now."</i> LOL hardly, I can easily tank both of those zones with just one healer and no mezzer and don't need a perfect group setup either.  I think they are even easier than Nek3 and Nek3 is pretty darn easy. And I will say it again, any kind of aggro dumping tool, including FD, would go against the grain of our class being an offensive blood-crazed warrior.  When you go Berserk the last thing you should be thinking about is dumping your aggro LOL.  That whole idea is just totally silly IMO.  Plus there's the fact that having such an ability would be just another excuse to keep us out of the MT role and let Guards have all the glory.  Maybe that's what you want, but then if so I don't think you are playing the right class to start with.  But, if you really want some deaggro anyway, you can always go with the Quellios diety get his deaggro proccing robe and some of his blessings and miracles give deaggro too I think.  Also, I know there are some deaggro proccing adornments you can buy for some of your items as well.  There's no need to change the whole class just becuase some people don't know how to control their aggro properly in raids where they're not the MT.<div></div>

[Wargurine]

<div><blockquote><hr>infernus006 wrote:<i></i> And I will say it again, any kind of aggro dumping tool, including FD, would go against the grain of our class being an offensive blood-crazed warrior.  When you go Berserk the last thing you should be thinking about is dumping your aggro LOL.  <div></div><hr></blockquote>Actually it wouldn't, if you want to make it into a lore thing, think of this. What would you rather attack? The wussy wearing cloth and waving his hands around, or the crazy man covered in blood wielding a nasty looking weapon? <blockquote><hr>infernus006 wrote: Plus there's the fact that having such an ability would be just another excuse to keep us out of the MT role and let Guards have all the glory.  Maybe that's what you want, but then if so I don't think you are playing the right class to start with.  But, if you really want some deaggro anyway, you can always go with the Quellios diety get his deaggro proccing robe and some of his blessings and miracles give deaggro too I think.  Also, I know there are some deaggro proccing adornments you can buy for some of your items as well.  There's no need to change the whole class just becuase some people don't know how to control their aggro properly in raids where they're not the MT.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Actually it wouldn't be an excuse to bump us from the MT category. But since most guilds (note I said most not all) prefer to have a guardian over a zerker (I MT about half of our raids when our guard isn't online), it would give us some more utility to offer to the raid because lets face it, we lost a ton more than we gained with eof. And the only thing I could do different to not rip from the MT would be to turn off auto attack. The only time I use CA's is when I am tanking or soloing, and when I am tanking all I hit is the dmg+taunt, outrage, and berate and sometimes weapon aegis. I do 1.2k+ dps vs a single target when not tanking, without CA's on raids. So other than pulsing auto attack, I have no way to keep my aggro down.And as for the adornment thing we could get, your wrong, your so wrong its not even funny. I am a 350 transmuter, and there are only two de-aggro procing adornments, one has a trigger chance from hostile spells, and the other has a trigger chance from heals. Since I dont' have hostile spells OR heals, they would never ever proc.</div>

[Wolfguard6]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wargurine wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV>The differance between a necro/assassin and a zerker doing that kind of dps is that the necro/assassin has agro dumping tools, they can ditch signifigant amounts of aggro, especially if the assassin is xfering hate to a low dps class and <FONT color=#ff0000>the necro is with a troub</FONT>. Thats why high dps zerkers rip aggro and why our class NEEDS a way to dump our aggro as the dev's push us more and more into a purely dps role.<BR></DIV>Added not part of quote---- Necro needs a troub thats not there own dump. Same could be said for a zerker have a troub dump theres. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ummm!!!! And that's a problem how? Keeping aggro is are job if we are main tanking. Please do not call down a nerf to us. We have taken enought with the mitgations changes, but in no way have are DPS called to dump to someone else. SOE's way thinking will have are DPS lowered and not a dump to main tank. So no please do not call for a Dump of hate to some other toon. Just learn and adpat to play change your calling SOE god's to make us have less DPS trust me on this they will do that. People on other class threads are saying we are too high in DPS. If we  Zerker start saying that we need a way to dump are hate because are DPS is to high. There not going to give us a dump they will lower are DPS over all we will lose what is a great role for us it. I for one and I'm sure many other will not want to lose that.  Are we tanks yes do we do a lot of DPS yes. Do we tank well in the MT role yes quite well IMO. Wisdom line in warrior tree nice having no penitally for O stance and D stance. Also make sure you are not running. Taunting Defence line it can amount to alot of aggro pull as well. Forgot I had that on as well one time in Mistmoore Catacombs new area not raid but took aggro off because of that. Once I got stoped running that problem solved and I did not change how I played. Still shows same about of DPS just one thing was pulling aggro. an extra threat gain. I just can see SOE's Line of thinking on this To much DPS fine lower there DPS no dump for them. Then what we have guardain I did not want to play a guardain.

[Telaris]

<P>Nizara with one healer... Not possible.. </P> <P>enough said.... never was and certainly not now....</P> <P> </P>

[Wargurine]

<div><blockquote><hr>Wolfguard6 wrote:<div></div>Ummm!!!! And that's a problem how? Keeping aggro is are job if we are main tanking. Please do not call down a nerf to us. We have taken enought with the mitgations changes, but in no way have are DPS called to dump to someone else. SOE's way thinking will have are DPS lowered and not a dump to main tank. So no please do not call for a Dump of hate to some other toon. Just learn and adpat to play change your calling SOE god's to make us have less DPS trust me on this they will do that. People on other class threads are saying we are too high in DPS. If we  Zerker start saying that we need a way to dump are hate because are DPS is to high. There not going to give us a dump they will lower are DPS over all we will lose what is a great role for us it. I for one and I'm sure many other will not want to lose that.  Are we tanks yes do we do a lot of DPS yes. Do we tank well in the MT role yes quite well IMO. Wisdom line in warrior tree nice having no penitally for O stance and D stance. Also make sure you are not running. Taunting Defence line it can amount to alot of aggro pull as well. Forgot I had that on as well one time in Mistmoore Catacombs new area not raid but took aggro off because of that. Once I got stoped running that problem solved and I did not change how I played. Still shows same about of DPS just one thing was pulling aggro. an extra threat gain. I just can see SOE's Line of thinking on this To much DPS fine lower there DPS no dump for them. Then what we have guardain I did not want to play a guardain.<hr></blockquote>Not entirely certain I understood what you was trying to say here caues I couldn't follow it, but here goes anyways. 1. I didn't ask for a nerf, imo we already got that with EoF2. They won't be nerfing our dps, people have been complaining that our dps is too high since kos, it hasn't happened yet, its not gonna happen.3. Monks and bruisers are supposed to be tank too (or so SOE claims, even if they say one thing and do another), and yet they get AA to drop aggro...and we      always have done more dps than themAnd as for the add to my quote, HA. A necro has a lot of thier own aggro dumping skills, and if you add in a troub to thier grp, they will never ever rip aggro unless they suck and they can still do over 2k dps. And a zerker CAN NOT have a troub dump thiers because a troubs is NON FIGHTER only. The only, note I said only, de-aggro that works on a fighter class is moderate from a guardian, and I can't see a guardian and a zerker being in teh same grp on a raid, thats rather crappy grp make up. None of the grp de-aggro buffs effect fighters because then they would be totally 100% useless because then your tank is getting de-aggro'd just as much as the dps classes are and yeah...thats 100% pointless rofl.</div>

[vanelyan]

<P>I agree with Nembutal about not gaining much as class AA's, Beserkers get owned 9/10x's due to the lack of HP's and mitigation compared to guardians. The extra dps is only good if you have a class say a dirge that has the aa line that will force the mob back to the MT to allow you to unlesh hell again like a beserker should. Our DPS is supposed to be high when compared to other tanks but feel that when a beserker goes beserker (say under 50% health) we should get some sort of stun proc or some overwhelming ability that will keep the mob from one shoting you. As is now it seems we end up on our backs in raids more than a heavy plate class should<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[FightGame]

<P>Please.  Never any aggro dumping tool.  AND Never any FD or evac.  It's NOT a zerker.  If you want these kind of abilities, don't roll a tank, even more so a zerker.  That kind of crap is the exact opposite of what a zerker is, and should be.  They never run from a fight.  They never worry about who's mad at them.  They don't pretend to be dead.  Even when they are in the worst possible scenerio (ie 0.01% health and an entire raid of people behind them, and they are the only tank).</P> <P> </P> <P>Also, the guardian don't get any more mitigation than bersekers.  Or any other plate tank really, except for wisdom line aa, but once you reach 5000 or so mit, an extra 300 from AA line is about 0.1%...hardly worth it.</P><p>Message Edited by FightGame on <span class=date_text>12-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:08 PM</span>

[FightGame]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wolfguard6 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Taunting Defence line it can amount to alot of aggro pull as well. Forgot I had that on as well one time in Mistmoore Catacombs new area not raid but took aggro off because of that. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No it wasn't because of that.  Read the description.  You have to be hit, in order for this to even have a 20% CHANCE to proc.  So, IF you get aggro from too much DPS, and you have this on, then it will be harder for the MT to get it back.  But having this on will not GET you aggro.  Nor will it help you DPS because you're not getting hit, so shut it off if not the MT.

[Wolfguard6]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FightGame wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wolfguard6 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Taunting Defence line it can amount to alot of aggro pull as well. Forgot I had that on as well one time in Mistmoore Catacombs new area not raid but took aggro off because of that. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No it wasn't because of that.  Read the description.  You have to be hit, in order for this to even have a 20% CHANCE to proc.  So, IF you get aggro from too much DPS, and you have this on, then it will be harder for the MT to get it back.  But having this on will not GET you aggro.  Nor will it help you DPS because you're not getting hit, so shut it off if not the MT.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Last I check some mobs AoE. yup that why I was saying got hit it proc. It came my way so I was also stating if not MT shut it off. Duh? Once I droped it he was able to get aggro back. So my statement holds true I did not change my DPS parser showed this. only diffrence was on Taunting Dedence. 20% to proce is pretty good so it could have went off 2 times if I took it once from AoE and then from another hit.

[Gortesh]

<hr size="2" width="100%"><div></div>... if they had included a way to SHED aggro that would have been nice...<hr size="2" width="100%">1. Why don't you consider rerolling the best zerker race of all? GNOME!! We get a aggro reducer, 800 pts of hate i beleive.2. There are ITEMS out there, one of them which is fairly easy to get and hela fun in combat. Tartons Wheel.<img src="http://eq2i.com/images/a/a1/Tartons_Wheel.jpg"><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Tarton%27s_Wheel_%28Quest%29" target=_blank>Here's</a><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Tarton%27s_Wheel_%28Quest%29" target=_blank> how to do the quest</a>