Guardian or Zerker?

[JesseDLew]

I love tanking classes from other games and I've been reading about guardian and zerkers here on the forums for some time. Unfortunetly I still seem to be confused about which one I should play. First I'll list what I "think" I know about the two classes after reading on the forums for a few days.1.) Both Guardians and Berserkers make excellent tanks and both can (and do) tank every event in the game.    a.) Guardians have higher HP and better snap aggro on single targets    b.) Berserkers have higher DPS and better AOE taunts2.) Both Guardians and Berserkers have a rather hard time soloing since they're very group oriented and healer dependant (by hard I just mean... low-ish DPS therefore they take longer to kill things and can't heal themself if they get into trouble)    a.) Guardians never seem to get good DPS but always have great defensive capabilities    b.) Berserkers start having great DPS (for a tank class) at level 40+ afterwhich they not only have great defense but also great DPS and are able to solo-kill much easier/faster/betterCorrect me if I'm wrong guys, so far I've play Berserker to level 10 and I'm still planning on doing a guardian too. I know alot of people might say "Just play them both and see which one you like" This is discomforting to me since I've heard people say that Berserkes don't "get good" until level 40+. Is this true? If so I don't want to try both characters all the way to 40... I'd like to hear opinions on which one is better for solo-killing because although I will be grouping, it sucks if you can't solo-grind for money/items etc...Basically I already know that in regards to tanking both classes do great and are the best the game has to offer. <b><i>So my real question is, why choose a Guardian if Berserkers can tank just as good and do more DPS at the same time?</i></b>And even on more targets at the same time? I'm guessing that I missed something... like guardians do better single target DPS and therefore are better for solo grinding? I don't know... right now I can't even see a reason for having the two classes if Berserkers do better DPS with the same tanking abilities. So please, let me know what you think of Guardian vs. Berserker in regards to solo DPS, high level DPS, group DPS... because it all matters.<div></div>

[Terron]

<blockquote><hr>JesseDLewis wrote:I love tanking classes from other games and I've been reading about guardian and zerkers here on the forums for some time. Unfortunetly I still seem to be confused about which one I should play. First I'll list what I "think" I know about the two classes after reading on the forums for a few days.1.) Both Guardians and Berserkers make excellent tanks and both can (and do) tank every event in the game.    a.) Guardians have higher HP and better snap aggro on single targets    b.) Berserkers have higher DPS and better AOE taunts <font color="#ffcc00">That guardians have more hit points, and berserkers have highed DPS is true.</font><font color="#ffcc00"> </font><font color="#ffcc00">However berserkers do not have better AoE taunts than guardians. Guardian taunts are at least equal and often better than berserker ones. But since DPS generates hate and berserkers have great AoE DPS berserkers can have an edge there. </font><font color="#ffcc00"> </font><font color="#ffcc00">At level 52 guardians get reinforcement - a great skill for taking aggro back once lost and which does work with  their two AoE attacks.</font> 2.) Both Guardians and Berserkers have a rather hard time soloing since they're very group oriented and healer dependant (by hard I just mean... low-ish DPS therefore they take longer to kill things and can't heal themself if they get into trouble)    a.) Guardians never seem to get good DPS but always have great defensive capabilities    b.) Berserkers start having great DPS (for a tank class) at level 40+ afterwhich they not only have great defense but also great DPS and are able to solo-kill much easier/faster/better <font color="#ffcc00">Compared to a guard berserkers get good DPS by level 30 at least. They can kill small groups of weaker mobs as fast as guards kill one due to their AoE abilities. </font><font color="#ffcc00"> </font><font color="#ffcc00">Guards with sufficient achievement points (close to 50) can get decent DPS. Berserkers have the same options. The defensive capabilities of guards and bersekers are dependant primarily on their armour, and there is virtually no difference in the armour available to the two classes. Without aid from other sources the berserkers better dps is likely to earn him better armour earlier. Both classes have good defenisve abilities, berserkers are probably better suited to solo/groups and guards to being a raid MT. So early on I would say berserkers have the better defense. Guards do get more abilities for defending others in a group, which don't work on themselves. One thing that guards buff is skills which has little effect currently, but which is supposed to be changing. Guards also debuff skills, though their debuffing abilites are small compared to scouts. </font>Correct me if I'm wrong guys, so far I've play Berserker to level 10 and I'm still planning on doing a guardian too. I know alot of people might say "Just play them both and see which one you like" This is discomforting to me since I've heard people say that Berserkes don't "get good" until level 40+. Is this true? If so I don't want to try both characters all the way to 40... I'd like to hear opinions on which one is better for solo-killing because although I will be grouping, it sucks if you can't solo-grind for money/items etc... <font color="#ffcc00">A guardian can solo grind, but a berseker will certainly be better at that.</font> Basically I already know that in regards to tanking both classes do great and are the best the game has to offer. <b><i>So my real question is, why choose a Guardian if Berserkers can tank just as good and do more DPS at the same time?</i></b><font color="#ffcc00">Guardians have a small edge in tanking high end mob bosses that do big hits and are hard to hit. If there is a guard and a berserker in the same group/raid with equal equipment the guard is more likely to be chosen to tank (because they can't really do anything else), so if all you want to do is tank a guard might be a better choice. </font> And even on more targets at the same time? I'm guessing that I missed something... like guardians do better single target DPS and therefore are better for solo grinding? I don't know... right now I can't even see a reason for having the two classes if Berserkers do better DPS with the same tanking abilities. So please, let me know what you think of Guardian vs. Berserker in regards to solo DPS, high level DPS, group DPS... because it all matters.<div></div> <font color="#ffcc00">Guardians do worse single target DPS than berserkers, except for mobs that are hard to hit (orange) where their skill buff can help</font>.<font color="#ffcc00"> If you want to do DPS go for a berserker.</font><font color="#ffcc00"> </font> </blockquote><div></div>

[JesseDLew]

Wow thanks alot for the great info!You're sort of reafirming my existing formed opinions though mainly....Berserkers have better DPS at all times, soloing grouping,  AEGuardians are slightly better at tanking so they're more likely to be chosen for raid MT but in every other situation Berserker is "good enough" to be the main tank and they still have better DPS.So my big question still stand... why even bother bing a Guardian if it's harder to solo and they're only slightly better at tanking? It would really come down to whether or not the extra tanking ability makes up for the loss of DPS and vice versa. Right now I'm leaning towards Berserker simply because they get the job done as far as tanking goes and they have better DPS all around.I guess the next expansion might change things though.On a slightly different note, how do Paladins compare to Guardian/Serker DPS and tanking abilites? It seems like they would be better at soloing because they're a hybrid Plate wearer that can heal themelf. The only thing that I see that could [Removed for Content] them is if their DPS is just extremely low or their defense is somehow gimped even though they're wearing plate. I never hear of paladins being Main Tanks for raids just smaller groups and it would seem like this is for a good reason although I don't know what.<div></div>

[Taeolen]

<DIV>I dunno, to me I don't believe that a Guardian is "better" at tanking than a Zerker.  At least not that I have seen myself or read.</DIV>

[JesseDLew]

Thanks.So Guardian is out the window for me. I think it's clear that Zerkers are good enough tanks to pretty much tank anything but also get better DPS. So for me at least, it's a clear choice between those two. Which leads me to my next question, what advantadge would hybrid tanks have over Zerkers? I'm just talking Monks/Paladins becase I need to play on Qeynos.Are monks/paladins more ideal for soloing and small grouping (duo's and trio's)? Paladins seem to visibly have lower melee DPS than Zerkers/Monks so do their heals/buffs make up for it in a solo/duo/trio situation?And are monks not even viable as tanks for groups in an instance? It would suck to be a Monk and have to get a guardian/zerker/paladin every time I wanted to do something that requires a semi-large group although of course I'd never consider tanking in a raid. It seems like maybe monks are relegated to DPSing the scouts do in groups in which case... why pick a monk over a scout? Hehe I'm sorry to be so persistantly annoying but for me they are valid concerns.<div></div>

[Taeolen]

<P>Paladins have a bit mroe survivability than Zerkers, IMO.  Due to Wards, heals, etc.  Yes, that helped out a lot on my Paladin over my Zerker when it came to soloing.  But, that survivability comes at the cost of power.  Out of power a Paladin will have issues as they can't heal, ward, etc.</P> <P>In a group setting though with healers, that kinda makes the Paladin's ability to ward and heal theirselves moot.  My Paladin was fun in small group/Duos (I duo mainly with my GF's chars in this game) and it was nice having the ability to heal up and ward to survive a bit longer while I distracted things while she killed them (she was a Swashbuckler).</P> <P>I didn't care much for the monk I had that was level 40.  Too squishy and didn't do enough damage for my liking.  But, my experience with the Monk is limited to just that.  I'd rather play a Scout class over a Monk, but that's just me.  Monks and bruisers are great, but evades don't always hold up.  Sure, you can go half the fight dodging every attack, but one WILL get through and that one hit is gonna hit you so hard.  Mitigation > Avoidance.  Mitigation always works.</P> <P>All are solid class choices though, IMO.  Paladin and Zerker offer some great versatility and utility considering they are tank classes.  I can easily dual wield or use a 2h weapon and go into DPS mode or I can main tank easily with my Zerker (I usually am always MT'ing because groups will expect a Guardian or Zerker to be a MT so I don't get a chance to use my DWs or 2hs as much as I would like to).  </P> <P>I will have to say that the sheer amount of abuse my Zerker can withstain is amazing.  I've been through some pretty nasty encounters where I'm still not sure how the group lived through it and shrugged off hits like they were nothing.  Can take one hell of a beating and still bite back hard myself.</P> <P>I tried the Guardian and I thought it was plain and boring and nothing but a taunt monkey.  Too one sided and boring.  I think there's a good reason why you see so many Zerkers over Guardians (which kind of sucks, imo.  Zerkers are very popular it seems). I rerolled him into a Zerker and haven't regretted that decision at all.  I just don't see the point of Guardians, honestly.  I've been in a guild group before where a higher level guardian was mentored down to our level and he got killed just as fast (if not faster) to a nasty orange mob as I did.</P> <P>You really should play a class that you'll be happy with.  Trust me on that.  I stuck with classes before that I just didn't like because I didn't want to start over.  Only wound up regretting it as I wound up restarting anyway but was at a higher level and more to lose than if I had done it sooner.</P> <P>If I were you, I would create a Berserker, Guardian, Monk, and a Paladin and try them each out for a few levels to see which one fits better with the kind of playstyle you enjoy.  Also, allow me to guide you to this webpage so you can take a look at each class' spells, abilities, CAs.  It can help with giving you a lot of information.</P> <P><A href="http://www.eq2ref.com/abilities/index.php" target=_blank>http://www.eq2ref.com/abilities/index.php</A></P> <P>Good luck with whatever you decide to play, and remember to have fun!  No matter what a class can or can not do; if you're not having fun playing it then you're wasting your time.</P><p>Message Edited by Taeolen on <span class=date_text>10-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:52 PM</span>

[RaunII]

<DIV>ok, here is my take on the subject...there is NOTHING like pulling the entire floor of green and blue heroics at level 69 in a full group with one healer, hitting insolent gibe, rampage,open wounds and hitting your AOE's, and watching the heroics all drop in minutes...im not even level 70 yet and i have been doing that in the instance runs in Nest of the Great egg....i mean, i would really like to see a gaurdian keep aggro off a warlock,swashbuckler, and fury spamming their AOE's on over 10 heroic encounters  :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i parse on average 500-600 DPS in non raid regular heroics blue to white in instances and xp groups....so i am no DPS machine, but, i can crank out enough damage...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as far as soloing goes...i have solo'd and duo'd my way to 69 with very little grouping prior to 60...soloing with a zerker is only surpassed by brawlers and summoners....and we get bind wounds as our first AA, perfect for soloing, kill a couple mobs and when your health is down instant heal and you can take on two more mobs!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i deleted my lvl 30 gaurdian...my first toon...and havent looked back since...you can solo with a gaurdian, but be prepared to take FOREVER to kill EVERYTHING... </DIV>

[JesseDLew]

<div></div><div></div>Thanks for the replies everyone, it's been very helpful.So far I've played...Paladin to level 10: He was easily able to kill everything in his path and even 3 blues at once, it just took a while to kill them.Shadowknight to 12: This guy was a monster, good single target damage, good AE damage and healed himself enough to kill even 4 blues at once. Sadly I can't play on Freeport <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> all my friends are on QeynosBerserker to 11: He seemed to be the least capable at taking on multiple targets at once. I'm attributing this to the fact that I don't have any good AE spells yet and my gear/spells in general. From the looks of it, zerkers and guardians don't "get good" until higher level. Everything that was my level and lower though went down very easily if I didn't get an add although I admit it was frustrating not being able to heal or escape if I got into trouble (you can always just run away but by the time I realized I was outmatched it was already too late to run)Monk to level 8: All I have to say about monk is "WOW" from level 1 his single target DPS was crazy just from auto attacks, no AE attacks to speak of so far but that wasn't really a problem even when I got adds, I was able to just kill one and move onto the next. I found that I didn't even need to heal while fighting 2 or 3 mobs at once but it was necessary to heal if I was fighting something higher level than I.I didn't even try guardian and don't plan to since I want a class that can tank and DPS when needed. So my first impression from the classes I've tried (excluding SK) is that... Monk seems to be the best soloer especially since he gets Feign Death later on. But when factoring in Grouping later on I'd have to say Berserker looks the most appealing. While I admire the Hybrids Paladin/Monk's ability to solo and take on multiple targets without dying, I'm very attracted to Zerker's Tank-ability in a group setting and the lure of the Hybrids isn't enough to pull me away from them. So really it's just a choice between Guardian and Zerker and I've chosen Zerker. Thanks for everyone's input.I'll likely have to come back later and ask about Zerker specs because even though I've been reading about these so-called "AA's" alot, I still don't know what the heck they are or how to get them! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I assume they are the achievment abilites that show up on the skills screen that require level 20 to get. And when people say 4/4/8 or whatever... I've also heard people say that Zerkers best DPS spec is 1-hander something or other that adds %76 extra dps or swing speed or something. I'm totally confused about where it is you spec this and when. Naturally I'll just level up the class and hope I don't misspec and have to pay extra money to switch back <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Oh and thanks for the ability link <a target="_blank" href="../view_profile?user.id=171197"><span>Taeolen</span></a>, that'll help out alot.<div></div><p>Message Edited by JesseDLewis on <span class=date_text>10-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:17 PM</span>

[Taeolen]

<P>NP, glad I could help.  I am always looking at that site when I'm wanting to check out a new class possibly.</P> <P>The AA line you are referring to, I believe, is the STA line.  Lots of Zerkers go down that line due to the Double Attack abilities, etc in it.</P>

[Ep]

A guard only has a "slight edge" in tanking every 3mins w/ tower of stone. <div></div>

[K'aldar]

<div><blockquote><hr>pjackson wrote:<blockquote><hr>JesseDLewis wrote:I love tanking classes from other games and I've been reading about guardian and zerkers here on the forums for some time. Unfortunetly I still seem to be confused about which one I should play. First I'll list what I "think" I know about the two classes after reading on the forums for a few days.1.) Both Guardians and Berserkers make excellent tanks and both can (and do) tank every event in the game.    a.) Guardians have higher HP and better snap aggro on single targets    b.) Berserkers have higher DPS and better AOE taunts <font color="#ffcc00">That guardians have more hit points, and berserkers have highed DPS is true.</font><font color="#ffcc00"> </font><font color="#ffcc00">However berserkers do not have better AoE taunts than guardians. Guardian taunts are at least equal and often better than berserker ones. But since DPS generates hate and berserkers have great AoE DPS berserkers can have an edge there. </font><font color="#ffcc00"> </font><font color="#ffcc00">At level 52 guardians get reinforcement - a great skill for taking aggro back once lost and which does work with  their two AoE attacks</font> </blockquote><div></div><hr></blockquote>sorry but you're wrong there, berserkers do have better aoe taunts, just because they have an extra one.  out of encounter also.  its their lvl 55 dof special spell.  I've played both  a high lvl guardian and zerker and its by far easier to hold aoe aggro on the zerker.one more thing zerkers can tank almost if not all raid mobs that guardians can.  my guild's 70 zerker tanked all of Halls of Seeing including venekor without going under green or losing aggro except on mem wipes.  Its all about the player behind the toon imo.</div>

[Baynne]

i am just going to throw this out there as an option for you.. dont let starting cities affect your choice.  you can still group with each other, and with harbormasters selling tickets to TS and nek forest, travel to group with each other will cost you 60 silver at most, which is easy to come by.  just figured i would throw that out there.i played a SK to 33 then started to get bored because soloing was a drain on power.  i played a pally to 27 and deleted him for the same reason. my guardians never make it off the newb isle, and i cannot handle the idea of avoiding most attacks but the one that gets thru hurts like hell.  my berserker is 35 and i still enjoy playing him.  granted he has slightly better gear than his predecessors, he is my highest tank lol.  i was fortunate in getting master taunts as well as some master CAs.  i can solo well enough to do most quests.  in a group with a healer i am a force to be reckoned with.  at lvl 35 i am able to safely tank lvl 38^^^ heriocs in offensive stance with a good group.  it is also fun to watch my damage be parsed and be second highest DPS in the group... over the necro but just under the wiz.  when i use bind wound before a pull and get the extra 10% CA damage i was able to even outdamage the wizard.  hurray for AOE <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Ghartan]

One a related note .... if you find yourself near enchanters a lot, Zerks are a complete pain in the [Removed for Content] to group with.When I play my Illusionist, I will routinely avoid groups with a zerk since it is near-impossible to get them to turn off all the skills that break mez (way too much whinning on their part).<span>:smileywink:</span> So when my illusionists gets asked to join a Nek3 or Nizara group ... first question I ask, is the MT a zerk? <span>:smileytongue:</span> Similar problem to a degree with swashies but by level 70, most don't mind turning off Hurricane. <div></div>

[Wargurine]

We only have 1, thats right one, skill that will break mez that we have to turn off, and thats only if you spec down the agi line. Destruction and Open Wounds are triggered AE's. So before you wanna come complain about our class, at least get your facts straight. We have nothing like a swashies hurricance that will break your mezz that we have to "turn off" without speccing down the agi line wich is kinda rare. But on the flip side I hate grping with illus/coercers that like to mez every single little encounter when it doesn't need to be done. Why waste the time killing 4 mobs one by one by one when you can just AE down the whole grp in less time than in takes to kill one of those mobs? As long as you can take the hits, mezzing is just a waste of time.<div></div>

[FightGame]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ghartan wrote:<BR>One a related note .... if you find yourself near enchanters a lot, Zerks are a complete pain in the [Removed for Content] to group with.<BR><BR>When I play my Illusionist, I will routinely avoid groups with a zerk since it is near-impossible to get them to turn off all the skills that break mez (way too much whinning on their part).<SPAN>:smileywink:</SPAN><BR><BR>So when my illusionists gets asked to join a Nek3 or Nizara group ... first question I ask, is the MT a zerk? <SPAN>:smileytongue:</SPAN><BR><BR>Similar problem to a degree with swashies but by level 70, most don't mind turning off Hurricane.<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I can understand your frustration, but we're berserkers.  We go berserk and start killin stuff.  We don't take time to see what mob(s) you are trying mez.  We just kill it.  Occasionally this gets us in trouble, but as long as we have a somewhat decent healer, all is good.</P> <P>One of our buffs, that is an "always on" type, is one that, upon receiving damage, has a 20% chance to deal a little damage and alot more hate and is AE.  20% chance is pretty good, and when we have to spam our regular taunts to hold aggro, these taunts are not always up.  This buff seriously helps us hold aggro.  So you might get a zerker to shut this off, and never do any other AE, but don't expect them to hold aggro nearly as well.  Remember the zerker relies on damage output for aggro control, alot more than a guard.  What I see happening is, the illusionist crying, so the zerker needs to shut off buffs, and never AE.  Soon as you are fighting more than 1 mob, or more than the illusionist can handle, people start dieing.  Replace that illusionist with another AE class and kill.  Nobody wants their group to be slow.  Everyone is out to do something, whether it's xp, get through the dungeon to kill some names, etc.  Why kill a big group one at a time, when you can kill 8 at one time?  Don't get me wrong, the illusionist has a place in this game, and I group with one often.  On trash encounters, where I feel it is safe, we AE.  If the healer should go down, or the encounter starts getting tough, or we're in a really tough zone, or simply don't have the optimal group set-up, then I let them do their job.  Any other time our illusionist, unlike many others, don't whine about broken mezz.  Funny you say the the zerkers whine, but we don't say anything when we AE entire group<STRONG>s</STRONG> down.  You do.  :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>How you gonna come to our boards and call us whiners and not expect us (especially as crazy zerkers) to not be defensive.  Instead of "way too much whinning on their part", you should be honest and say "too much WINNING on their part".  Now play it safe, as an illusionist would, and run back to your own boards, tail between legs... hehe</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by FightGame on <span class=date_text>10-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:13 PM</span>

[Ghartan]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wargurine wrote:<BR>We only have 1, thats right one, skill that will break mez that we have to turn off, and thats only if you spec down the agi line. Destruction and Open Wounds are triggered AE's. <BR><BR>So before you wanna come complain about our class, at least get your facts straight. We have nothing like a swashies hurricance that will break your mezz that we have to "turn off" without speccing down the agi line wich is kinda rare. <BR><BR>But on the flip side I hate grping with illus/coercers that like to mez every single little encounter when it doesn't need to be done. Why waste the time killing 4 mobs one by one by one when you can just AE down the whole grp in less time than in takes to kill one of those mobs? As long as you can take the hits, mezzing is just a waste of time.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It may be an AA line but it must be a POPULAR aa line as it is a problem I encounter a lot so less caffiene my friend :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do my research thank you very much ... group with zerker ... and you have to hope he turns things off ... otherwise you are forked for mezzing.:smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now for most of EQ2, mezzing is not really needed ... but for some zones, it is needed.</DIV>

[Ghartan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FightGame wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>....</P> <P>One of our buffs, that is an "always on" type, is one that, upon receiving damage, has a 20% chance to deal a little damage and alot more hate and is AE.  20% chance is pretty good, and when we have to spam our regular taunts to hold aggro, these taunts are not always up.  This buff seriously helps us hold aggro.  So you might get a zerker to shut this off, and never do any other AE, but don't expect them to hold aggro nearly as well.  Remember the zerker relies on damage output for aggro control, alot more than a guard.  What I see happening is, the illusionist crying, so the zerker needs to shut off buffs, and never AE.  Soon as you are fighting more than 1 mob, or more than the illusionist can handle, people start dieing.  <STRONG>Replace that illusionist with another AE class and kill.</STRONG>  Nobody wants their group to be slow.  Everyone is out to do something, whether it's xp, get through the dungeon to kill some names, etc.  Why kill a big group one at a time, when you can kill 8 at one time?  Don't get me wrong, the illusionist has a place in this game, and I group with one often.  On trash encounters, where I feel it is safe, we AE.  If the healer should go down, or the encounter starts getting tough, or we're in a really tough zone, or simply don't have the optimal group set-up, then I let them do their job.  Any other time our illusionist, unlike many others, don't whine about broken mezz.  Funny you say the the zerkers whine, but we don't say anything when we AE entire group<STRONG>s</STRONG> down.  You do.  :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>How you gonna come to our boards and call us whiners and not expect us (especially as crazy zerkers) to not be defensive.  Instead of "way too much whinning on their part", you should be honest and say "too much WINNING on their part".  Now play it safe, as an illusionist would, and run back to your own boards, tail between legs... hehe</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by FightGame on <SPAN class=date_text>10-30-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:13 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Not saying I care in most instances ... but if you want me (enchanter) to help you in certain zones (like Nek3 and Nizara), you need to shut things down or we all die ... talk about the ultimate in slow XP. And that is when the whinning starts ... and it does :smileywink:</P> <P>In HoF or other simple zones, AoE DPS yer heart out as I switch to group stuns and other mez replacements :smileyhappy:</P> <P>Regarding why I came here in first place ... well time to start another alt and was thinking tank ... so was checking the Zerk board (and Guardian) when I saw this thread.<BR></P><p>Message Edited by Ghartan on <span class=date_text>10-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:54 PM</span>

[Ep]

only open wounds will break mez, nothing else will(Unless like ppl said, they went down agi aa always on, aoe, open wounds).destruction will not break mez, it'll proc off your current target. our ds hate proc will not break mez, b/c mob will be mez'd b4 it'll proc, it's not a dot so it won't happen. i've been w/ a coercer for 2years, only open wounds breaks mez. blue aoe's will not, if your not targeting the mez'd encounter, green's won't if your still targeting the mob you have to kill. the only reason why nek3 would "seem" that some1 is breaking mez is prolly b/c the mt zerk got knocked off target by the snake ladies, thats easy to remedy, just ma off a scout or something, and have the mt zerk assist the scout when he gets knocked off.<div></div>

[FightGame]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ghartan wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> but if you want me (enchanter) to help you in certain zones (like Nek3 and Nizara</P> <HR> <P></P> <P>I don't mind the help, if that's what you're really doing.  But I've done nek3 with 1 healer and 1 dps.  Also been through alot of nizara with 2 healers and 3 dps/utility (no chanters).  A couple deaths may have been prevented if we had our chanter with us, but not really "needed".  There's always more than 1 way to do things.</P> <P> </P> <P>Also, open wounds will break mezz.  And things like the hate proc and weapon aegis, which both proc when we're damaged, can make it harder for the mezzers to keep them locked down.  Not to mention any other procs that we get as buffs from other classes when grouped.  They may not break mezz, but as I said, can make it harder.<BR></P> <P> </P> <P>epyx, there's no snake ladies in nek3.  unless you've found some super secret area I haven't been to...haha  But yes, when we get taunted off our target and auto attack before we realize it, that surely gives the impression that we're doing something "wrong".</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><p>Message Edited by FightGame on <span class=date_text>10-31-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:55 AM</span>

[Wargurine]

Actually, its not a popular line. I would actually say that agi is the least popular line, most people go sta for double attack, and either wis for defense or str/int for dps/haste. And our hate reactive doesn't an AE and won't break mez cause its well, reactive, so unless the mezzed mob hits us it won't hit them back heh. And even the AE that is tied to our offensive stance won't break mez, or get adds since its encounter only.My guild does Nizara about once a week, sometimes every other week and I have never once broken mez unless it was to start killing a new mob. And in nek 3, mezzing isn't needed, we do it every day with no mezzer =p<div></div>

[Taeolen]

<DIV>Offense Stance</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>10% chance to attack <STRONG>targets in area</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>Threat Counterattack Proc</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>20% chance to proc a counter attack <STRONG>on target</STRONG> and increase threat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just to clarify.  If a Zerker is the MT why are they in Offensive stance anyhow? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Taeolen on <span class=date_text>10-31-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:30 PM</span>

[Ep]

off stance will not break mez,hate proc will not break mez, if target is mez'd therefor cannot hit you to become a target themselves to get proc'd on.<div></div>

[Wargurine]

<div><blockquote><hr>Taeolen wrote:<div>Offense Stance</div> <div> </div> <div>10% chance to attack <strong>targets in area</strong></div> <div><strong></strong> </div> <div>Threat Counterattack Proc</div> <div> </div> <div>20% chance to proc a counter attack <strong>on target</strong> and increase threat.</div> <div> </div> <div>Just to clarify.  If a Zerker is the MT why are they in Offensive stance anyhow? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Taeolen on <span class="date_text">10-31-2006</span> <span class="time_text">01:30 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I tank in offensive stance all the time. Its easier to hold hate and if you don't need the xtra mit from def stance than there is no need for it. And the proc on our offensive stance on effects mobs in the encounter, it will not pull adds. And if a mob is mezzed, then its immune to AE's unless they are directly targeted towards that mob, IE open wounds/agi line proc, or you change targets.</div>

[RaunII]

unless i am tanking raids i am tanking in offensive stance to help keep aggro under control. if a mezzer doesnt like it they can go find another group. normally i just tell the coercer to just get a pet and use that to contribute, cause right now, i dont really need a coercer unless i am on a raid...dunno bout other zerks, but i can pull the whole bottom floor of the nest and kill all the mobs in a couple minutes with only one healer and a dps in the group...so why would i switch to defensive and take off my oae stance and skills so he can feel usefull? get a pet and play DPS for crying out loud.