Expansion MIT nerf? Here are the facts, you decide!

[tvies]

<DIV>In case you have not seen, this has some pretty important information that all zerker's should read:</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testdev&message.id=11194" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testdev&message.id=11194</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In case you do not want to read all of that, here is what I have taken away from this post:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>MIT Cap has been raised from [ Level * 80 ] to [ Level * 150 ]</DIV> <UL> <LI>This means that in order to absorb 80% of damage you will now need 10,500 MIT, when before you needed 5,600.</LI> <LI>MIT now uses a diminishing returns curve with the break-even level @ 4000 for a level 70, meaning that if you have less than 4000 MIT you gain % the old fashioned way (linear).</LI></UL> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think we all knew a MIT nerf was coming, but I'm not sure this is what we had in mind.  There are two problems with MIT currently:</DIV> <UL> <LI>First, supposively it is too easy for a plate tank to hit cap.  Once you hit 70 and get some fabled equip and a decent buff you are at the cap and that is boring since it took no effort to get there.</LI> <LI>Second, since it is easier for a plate tank to hit cap, Epic mob difficulty is significantly reduced.  It also means that other classes that cannot reach cap as easy are not as effective as a plate tank.  There is also an issue with Epic attacks insta-killing mages and scout classes due to this MIT issue.</LI></UL> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So does the solution actually fix the problem?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In short it does fix the issues described above.  It will be harder for a plate tank to reach cap which is the underlying issue.  The gap between different tanking classes will be reduced since the difference between a Monk with 7000 MIT and a Zerker with 8600 is smaller than before.  Plus it will increase the MIT% of mage and scout classes so that one hit will no longer = all of their HP.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, instead of fixing the issue from the top down.  They are fixing it from the bottom up.  Perhaps this was a conscience decision by the developers, but now you are looking at a change that will affect every piece of armor in the game.  Every piece will need to be re-evaluated and tested against the new model, which leads to the the question, "Why not just fix the items and be done with it?"  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the MIT cap is an issue then make some new items that are harder to acquire and have those pieces of equipment have trade-offs.  The key in that sentence is to make items harder to aquire!  All a player has to do is spend 2 hours collecting rares and boom!  You can make some of the best armor in the game.  Heck, all I have to do is make a run to the guild bank, ask someone for a 70 armorer, and give away 10g.  Next thing I know it I have pristine imbued armor that give me 60-65%.  Add some buffs, a few potions, and cap!  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If non-plate tanks are having an issue, adjust the MIT level of the current Monk / Brusier equip or create some new tier 7 stuff.  Finally, if mages and scouts are getting killed in one hit then do the same, although I think if a mage is dumb enough to be in range of an Epic then they deserve to get killed.  The point is, REWARD players for playing the game.  Don't punish them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Trynnus1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> tvieson wrote:<BR> <DIV>In case you have not seen, this has some pretty important information that all zerker's should read:</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testdev&message.id=11194" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testdev&message.id=11194</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In case you do not want to read all of that, here is what I have taken away from this post:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>MIT Cap has been raised from [ Level * 80 ] to [ Level * 150 ]</DIV> <UL> <LI>This means that in order to absorb 80% of damage you will now need 10,500 MIT, when before you needed 5,600.</LI> <LI>MIT now uses a diminishing returns curve with the break-even level @ 4000 for a level 70, meaning that if you have less than 4000 MIT you gain % the old fashioned way (linear).</LI></UL> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think we all knew a MIT nerf was coming, but I'm not sure this is what we had in mind.  There are two problems with MIT currently:</DIV> <UL> <LI>First, supposively it is too easy for a plate tank to hit cap.  Once you hit 70 and get some fabled equip and a decent buff you are at the cap and that is boring since it took no effort to get there.</LI> <LI>Second, since it is easier for a plate tank to hit cap, Epic mob difficulty is significantly reduced.  It also means that other classes that cannot reach cap as easy are not as effective as a plate tank.  There is also an issue with Epic attacks insta-killing mages and scout classes due to this MIT issue.</LI></UL> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So does the solution actually fix the problem?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In short it does fix the issues described above.  It will be harder for a plate tank to reach cap which is the underlying issue.  The gap between different tanking classes will be reduced since the difference between a Monk with 7000 MIT and a Zerker with 8600 is smaller than before.  Plus it will increase the MIT% of mage and scout classes so that one hit will no longer = all of their HP. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, instead of fixing the issue from the top down.  They are fixing it from the bottom up.  Perhaps this was a conscience decision by the developers, but now you are looking at a change that will affect every piece of armor in the game.  Every piece will need to be re-evaluated and tested against the new model, which leads to the the question, "Why not just fix the items and be done with it?" </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the MIT cap is an issue then make some new items that are harder to acquire and have those pieces of equipment have trade-offs.  The key in that sentence is to make items harder to aquire! <FONT color=#ff0000> All a player has to do is spend 2 hours collecting rares and boom!  You can make some of the best armor in the game.  Heck, all I have to do is make a run to the guild bank, ask someone for a 70 armorer, and give away 10g.  Next thing I know it I have pristine imbued armor that give me 60-65%</FONT>. <STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#99ff00>Not in T7 - mastercrafted gear is not as good and does not have resists, you will get eatten alive in a raid if u r the MT</FONT>.</FONT></STRONG> Add some buffs, a few potions, and cap! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If non-plate tanks are having an issue, adjust the MIT level of the current Monk / Brusier equip or create some new tier 7 stuff.  Finally, if mages and scouts are getting killed in one hit then do the same, although I think if a mage is dumb enough to be in range of an Epic then they deserve to get killed.  The point is, REWARD players for playing the game.  Don't punish them.<FONT color=#99ff00> <STRONG>The issue for non-plat "tanks" was that the +bonus to hit that epics had ignored their avoidance so monks and brusiers were getting "two-shotted" and therefore not able to tank Raids. This is also in for the fix.</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>While I agree with itemization needing to be fixed, this is separate from the revamp of the stats caps. Realize that Mit is only one of the changes. All other stats caps are getting increased. I am just above the 40% and will be seeing a intial nerf but when cloaks and second earring and adornments get added i am sure I will get back to even or better with the first month.</P> <P>The major issue is that SOE had to change something for EoF, otherwise the new content would be just the same old gear reworked. EoF needs harder zones with better loot, but if the loot is better than that will make the "old" T7 zones trivial. They had to do something to balance everything out.<BR></P>

[Wargurine]

new and better equipment from newer and harder zones SHOULD trivialize the old content since the old content was designed for the old gear, otherwise there is no progression.<div></div>

[Herculez]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trynnus1 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#99ff00>Not in T7 - mastercrafted gear is not as good and does not have resists, you will get eatten alive in a raid if u r the MT</FONT></FONT></STRONG><BR> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Where have you been?  Mastercrafted armor for t7 had resists added to it very shortly after KoS went live.  While it might not be the resist lvl legendary and fabled items has, it is balanced with every piece having 4 resists, 2 resists at 134 and 2 at 268 and it rotates for each piece so that you get a pretty even distribution for an entire set of xegonite.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Trynnus1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Herculez wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trynnus1 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#99ff00>Not in T7 - mastercrafted gear is not as good and does not have resists, you will get eatten alive in a raid if u r the MT</FONT></FONT></STRONG><BR> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Where have you been?  Mastercrafted armor for t7 had resists added to it very shortly after KoS went live.  While it might not be the resist lvl legendary and fabled items has, it is balanced with every piece having 4 resists, 2 resists at 134 and 2 at 268 and it rotates for each piece so that you get a pretty even distribution for an entire set of xegonite.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What i meant was the amount of resists and uberness of the the Xegonite is not that same as pre-nerf cobalt.

[YummiOger]

<DIV>WOW .. Soft cap at 10,500 mitigation ... wow .. talk about a huge nerf/jump. i was thinking more along the lines of 100x70= 7000 soft. but 10K+?.. how many tanks in game right now can hit that at Lv 70?.</DIV> <DIV>And wont the old content be hitting for juat as much damage??  Vymm will be hitting for the same attack power (however it is refered to) , BUT my Effective Mitigation will be halved?.. What?!??   Thats exactly what happen back in LU13, when Angler was 1 shotting for 20K damage on a lv 50, it had to be fixed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Jrral]

No, according to the devs the old content will <i>not</i> be hitting for as much damage as they used to. One of the effects of the steepness of the MIT effectiveness curve (or lack-of-curve) at high levels was that mobs needed to be overpowered to give a well-equipped plate tank a challenge, leading to them being able to one-shot anything short of a plate tank. The solution was to scale back MIT effectiveness and bend the curve downwards, slowing progression, and unbuff the mobs to match. Your mitigation percentage will go down, but the mobs won't be hitting as hard so for a plate tank their effectiveness against mobs is supposed to not change (assuming the devs don't introduce bugs or forget to debuff some mobs).<div></div>

[MyrdalGroenhart]

soft cap will indeed be alot higher but your interpretation of the numbers is way off.  80% mit will not be close to 10k it will be more along the line of around 6k ish still for a lvl 70 mob and the higher cap only gives you the abbilitie to get more mit percentage total. Only thing is that their is a spot somewhere between 5800 and 6200 mit if i interpret  the numbers correctly where their will be a slight nerf in mit above that you will see improvement  where in the past there was no improvement at all.look a couple of pages down the original posting some people drew out a nice graph explaining it all very well .Hannu, 70 guardian<div></div>

[HisMajes]

<DIV>from a 57 beserker..... i mean he knows it all about end game content...</DIV>

[Yojimbo99]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MyrdalGroenhart wrote:<BR>soft cap will indeed be alot higher but your interpretation of the numbers is way off.  <U><STRONG><FONT color=#ccff33>80% mit will not be close to 10k</FONT></STRONG></U> it will be more along the line of around 6k ish still for a lvl 70 mob and the higher cap only gives you the abbilitie to get more mit percentage total. Only thing is that their is a spot somewhere between 5800 and 6200 mit if i interpret  the numbers correctly where their will be a slight nerf in mit above that you will see improvement  where in the past there was no improvement at all.<BR><BR>look a couple of pages down the original posting some people drew out a nice graph explaining it all very well .<BR><BR>Hannu, 70 guardian<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I think you got it wrong there.</P> <P>the new max cap is going  to be 10,500 and that will be 80% 70vs70</P> <P>the break point has is also stated being 4000 mitigation. From 4000 up you will get ever more diminishing returns on your mit %</P> <P>what we dont know is how fast the diminishing plunge line is...7000 might be 70% for all we know and the last 10% is going to take another 3500 mit to get</P>

[Domiuk]

<DIV>"soft cap will indeed be alot higher but your interpretation of the numbers is way off.  80% mit will not be close to 10k it will be more along the line of around 6k ish still for a lvl 70 mob and the higher cap only gives you the abbilitie to get more mit percentage total. Only thing is that their is a spot somewhere between 5800 and 6200 mit if i interpret  the numbers correctly where their will be a slight nerf in mit above that you will see improvement  where in the past there was no improvement at all.<BR><BR>look a couple of pages down the original posting some people drew out a nice graph explaining it all very well .<BR><BR>Hannu, 70 guardian"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I too have read the entire thread and I think it is you who are way off and I cant see any graph that shows the numbers you quote.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>10500 or so is the cap , the highest you can get it is unlikely they would make this higher than 80% as it is now or otherwise in the event of someone managing to achieve 10,500 all of a sudden we have trivialised encounters again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You can pretty much bet that 6k or so mitigation is only going to be between 50 and 60%  and nowhere near the 80 you have just quoted.  I mean cmon as a guardian i hit nearly 8.5k now ! (30secs only but still) and with 2 more slots and the likelyhood of better gear to come.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seriously solo mitigation + 1500 from external + nearly 2k from short terms and your only talking solo 7k to hit the new cap and you think that might be higher than 80% ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>lol one of the guys who has created graphs has decided to use 90% as cap for no reason whatsoever completely screwing his graph as far as i can see. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The balance is of course that they are making the mobs hit less hard , in theory.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dont be surprised if this doesnt cement the place of the uber geared guard/zerker even further.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At the moment only warriors have any real chance of hitting the big numbers of 10,5k  , and there is no reason at all why you could not use 2 or even 3 and keep them all at max mitigation using short terms.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At that point we are back as we are now except the mobs dont hit as hard, doesnt sound like a good plan to me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Nembutal]

<P>I don't like it... casters are supposed to die... scouts are supposed to die.  It's the penalty for screwing up.  They have tools to help them not screw up which many ignore (evade, etc) they refuse to hit them because it's less time doing DPS... and to them it's all that matters.... and they spam all the DPS attacks as fast as possible.  Then they get aggro and die.</P> <P>That's called natural selection folks.... it takes the unfit out of the gene pool.  Hopefully they can't find a guild or they quit the game.</P>

[FightGame]

<DIV>They are suppose to fix avoidance too.  So, while you may not be max mitigation any more, you shouldn't be getting hit as often.  And they are scaling the mobs hits down.  I wouldn't worry about it much.  They make these encounters to be beaten.  If nobody beats it, then they nerf it.  If not enough people beat it, they nerf it some more.  I think there may be a period of time, immediately after release, where some mobs may be either impossible, or even easier than before.  </DIV>