Question about Juggernaught

[joebyrdw]

<DIV>Should be an easy question, I was looking throught the stickied list of Zerk abilities and was unable to find juggernaught any where on the list. What level do you get this ability? What exactly does it do? I see it mentioned alot on the boards here and I'm just curious to find out when I get it and what it does.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Currently I'm level 43 hopefully 45 tonight. </DIV>

[SlapnutsGT]

Maybe lvl 65? I forget, but bascially it scrafices alot of mit for a chance to do crits, can only be used while beserk.<div></div>

[Trynnus1]

<P>This spell should come with a warning:</P> <P>Dont not use if you have aggro or if the person with aggro can not keep it very well right now.</P> <P>That being said, this spell is awesome for DPS as long as the mobs dont turn on you. Put it on with Open wounds and/or Bloodbath and watch all the pretty BIG orange numbers as you crit hit all the mobs in range Twice. I use this spell in raids when I know the MT has built aggro high enough for me not to steal it (well I try to guess when that is <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).</P>

[Neric]

I only use it when the MT is a Paladin and has amends on me.That way I can't steal aggro and now no one can steal aggro from the MT <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[MoonSorceror]

also most zerkers call it jokernaut as it is probably the most useless spell...<div></div>

[kenm]

<div></div>I frequently use it while tanking trash mobs, it's not that bad...<div></div>

[Triste-Lune]

i use it to finish off the last 10% of mobs&nameds when they are so debuffed they can hit me for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. always nice to see crit > 3K a swing.Though i must admit the skill suck donkeyballs hard compared to obliterate guard get, but ho well ....

[Hohum]

Always good if your warded up to the hilt as well. Ho

[joebyrdw]

<P>Thanks alot for the info guys. I now understand why people call it jokernaut lol. I also see where it could have its uses. Thanks again.</P> <P> </P>

[Thor Of Hal]

<P>Juggernaut is a nice dps booster indeed.  Shouldnt be laughed off so much.  It commonly is because it doesnt support our class role... as MT not like Obliterate that Guards get....</P> <P>It increases the Min/Max spell damage of ALL your CAs + inc crit chance by 27% (m1)</P> <P>But it debuffs parry/defence by 39 and everything else (part from stats i.e. resists mitigation etc) by 1300. </P> <P>Use this in combination with Bind Wounds (the start AA options)</P> <P> </P> <P>Cast it before you cast rambo (openwounds + destruction)... and you will have a massive boost in damage espicially on multipul encounters!</P> <P>Be warned... You will most likely pull agro doing this!  Have a setup favourable for agro reduction if ur not MT <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>Vladnor the Berserk</P> <P>70 Berserker</P> <P>Unity</P> <P>Splitpaw</P>

[infernus006]

I never use the spell myself, since as it is I almost always pull aggro in raids when I use Destruction or Open Wounds *by themselves* no matter who is tanking (unless I have Amends, which is not very often), so I don't even have it on my hotbar.  Plus there's the fact that the penalties so grossly outweigh the benefits that it's not even funny, and not a smart thing to cast when you are meleeing mobs with harsh AoE's.  Total waste of an ability if you ask me, and most others will tell you the same. <div></div>

[Thor Of Hal]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> infernus006 wrote:<BR>I never use the spell myself, since as it is I almost always pull aggro in raids when I use Destruction or Open Wounds *by themselves* no matter who is tanking (unless I have Amends, which is not very often), so I don't even have it on my hotbar.  Plus there's the fact that the penalties so grossly outweigh the benefits that it's not even funny, and not a smart thing to cast when you are meleeing mobs with harsh AoE's.  Total waste of an ability if you ask me, and most others will tell you the same.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>With a dirge in my group and using juggernaut i can quiet easly parse over 2k...  If the tank has enough hate transfer in his group, and you have illu deagro on you, or a troub (if you can pull them away from the mage group <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) You shouldnt have a problem.</P> <P>And most of the time it takes so long to cast all the [Removed for Content] spells the fights over by the time you finished it.   I wait till the mobs on 80% or if its  a large group i wait for a couple of the mobs to die before casting.  </P> <P>Macro the spells (cant do more then two per macro because of the queue function), i macroed  Juggernaut + Droag Master rage and Destruction and OpenWounds.   Attach somthin in group chat warning your group members that u about to do it, so they can cast their deaggros/Proc/Caco of blades etc... But be warned: Once you press the macro you cant press another CA/ability or it will break the coding.  And it takes for Rambo bout 5 seconds to complete casting of both. </P> <P>Infernus, it jus seems like a waist not to have it, get it at master one if you dont already have it (its when it only really becomes much use) and cast it in raids.  For when ur not tankin youll parse at least 1k+ thats better then doing nothing and parsing like 700.  Means zerkers are useful as dps and as tanks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>Vladnor The Berserk</P> <P>70 Berserker</P> <P>Unity</P> <P>Splitpaw</P>

[FightGame]

<P>I didn't like it at first, because of the penalties.  But now that I'm geared up pretty good I use it all the time.  Even as MT and on some named.  All the trash get it as soon as it's up.  If I'm hesitant, I cast Mayhem + Suppresed Rage and/or get bolstered, then do it.</P> <P> </P> <P>PS.  someone above was talking about the penalties....you forgot that it actually drains health too.  It says so in the description od the spell, but doesn't say how much.</P>

[lungdart]

 Juggernaught will get you to the top of any Parse. An awesome CA if your not a MT for a raid And with a nice 2 Hander  Your talking serious damage <div></div>

[DrRothchild]

So basically Juggernaught is useful if you are grouped and not the MT, is that correct?

[FightGame]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DrRothchild wrote:<BR>So basically Juggernaught is useful if you are grouped and not the MT, is that correct?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>All depends.  As I stated above, I use it when I'm MT'ing raids, on all trash and some names.  I also use it soloing.  Grouping, I use it on everything, except maybe nizara names.  Really depends on your gear, and what buffs your group is giving you.  If you're in doubt, hit a couple of your 30 second defensive buffs just prior.  Also helps when your healer is paying attention...when they see those horns, that means be ready!</P> <P>If you are not the MT, then I guess it would be a little more safe, but you have to make sure you don't pull aggro, turning the mob around to frontal AE the raid!  I certainly wouldn't advise stacking this ability with open wounds or destruction when not the MT, unless you have someone reducing your aggro, and you have a mean MT.</P><p>Message Edited by FightGame on <span class=date_text>10-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:42 PM</span>

[Wargurine]

<div><blockquote><hr>Thor Of Halla wrote:<div></div> <p>With a dirge in my group and using juggernaut i can quiet easly parse over 2k...  If the tank has enough hate transfer in his group, and you have illu deagro on you, or a troub (if you can pull them away from the mage group <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) You shouldnt have a problem.</p>  <p>Vladnor The Berserk</p> <p>70 Berserker</p> <p>Unity</p> <p>Splitpaw</p><hr></blockquote>Umm, what deagro's does an illusionist and a troub have that work on fighters? I know for a fact, as I have both an illus and a troub, that thier grp de-aggro's don't work on fighter classes. I also know the coercer single target doesn't work on fighters either. AFAIK the only de-aggro buff that works on fighters is moderate (the guardian one) and the ones that brig's can hit others with (don't know the name).</div>

[arieste]

<P>i see a lot of people mention using it with Open Wounds and Destruction, I actually use it specifically when those 2 are not up.  So basically OW/DES, then Juggernaut, then OW/DES.  So it helps spread my damage out a bit more.  Obviously the biggest effect would be to stack them all, but OW/DES pull aggro pretty good on their own, so when youre DPS on a raid, I dont think its the best idea.  usually you have enough time on a named to just take turns.</P> <P>If i remember right Juggernaut's main benefit is that it increases CA damage, so I generally time it so that i have all the damage CAs up before I use it.</P> <P>I think its a great zerker spell for DPS.  Most zerkers are tanks, so for them it's probably not that great.</P>

[Thor Of Hal]

<P>Thought they did war, after lu 27 i think it was.   And the troubs have group deagros too.. to lazy to confirm.</P> <P> </P> <P>As i have said.... be CAREFUL when you use juggernaut if ur MTing.   What you dont want to do is use it at a stupid time, Get a raid wipe. coz it costs raid money, delays the raid, and damages equipment.   </P> <P>It may be that you can only use it on one or two groups or in the first few mobs in Labs.. but remeber Mobs have debuffs. some labs ones have miti debuffs!!  </P> <P>Personally i only use it when the raid force gets bored <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  And remeber it dont do a massive increase to dps on its own. </P> <P> </P> <P>Vladnor The Berserk</P> <P>70 Berserker</P> <P>Unity </P> <P>Splitpaw</P> <P>Message Edited by Thor Of Halla on <SPAN class=date_text>10-13-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:54 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Thor Of Halla on <span class=date_text>10-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:55 AM</span>

[Wargurine]

Yes, troubs have a grp de-aggro, and so do illustionists, but it also reads If not Fighter (thats us), because the spell would be extremely pointless if it was de-aggroing the tank as well as the scouts and casters, etc.<div></div>

[RaunII]

<DIV>well, I personally think that with the amount of "debuffs" we get for this spell we should have a bigger increase in DPS, but thats just me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>right now I am pretty happy with my zerker, granted he is only 68, but i am looking forward to destruction and hopefully the devs wont nerf us anymore.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>whatever you do, dont try this spell for the first time in a group when you arent main tank and the pally has amends on the monk....lets just say that doesnt go very well...lol</DIV>

[fenixilius]

<DIV>Juggernaut is a good spell...in "situations</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Problem is it still isnt a "fair" spell of it's type.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All other classes lvl 65 special spell give "zero" penatlies. Juggernaut needs to be the same in order to make it a balanced spell, or give a few others penalites...but im sure those classes wouldnt like such a thing. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If juggernaut was slightly less effective and had no penalty, it would be a great ability. But as is...meh.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To be truthful i think it would be neat if jugganught was more an increase to cirt chance, base CA damage based on the amount of mobs aggro to the zerker. It would be similiar to the SK and Necro abilites, yet aggressive mobs instead of corpses. I like this because the zerker is all about big groups. It always has been.</DIV>

[Ep]

enchanters spell should work on fighters nowi see casting juggernaught while mt a viable option with eof, since the -1300mit won't make that big a difference if your capped.<div></div>

[Thor Of Hal]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Epyx wrote:<BR>enchanters spell should work on fighters now<BR><BR>i see casting juggernaught while mt a viable option with eof, since the -1300mit won't make that big a difference if your capped.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>good point <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Wargurine]

<div><blockquote><hr>Epyx wrote:enchanters spell should work on fighters now<hr></blockquote>Wrong, because if a grp de-aggro buff affected fighters, there would be no point in having it, as your tank is now being de-aggro'd just as much as everyone else and your back to square one...And I had our guild's coercer hit me with his single target de-aggro last night, and it still says if not fighter.</div>

[Thor Of Hal]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wargurine wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Epyx wrote:<BR>enchanters spell should work on fighters now<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Wrong, because if a grp de-aggro buff affected fighters, there would be no point in having it, as your tank is now being de-aggro'd just as much as everyone else and your back to square one...<BR><BR>And I had our guild's coercer hit me with his single target de-aggro last night, and it still says if not fighter.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>bugged?<BR>