Order of Importance

[Henladar Bloodheart ~]

<DIV>Had an interesting discussion with a healer the other day when i said Mit is the main thing a tank needs to worry about and HP is not as big an issue. Now i got my ideas but i wanted to know what you all think a tank for a raid needs to worry about.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Order list including Mit, Resists, Hate, Avoidence, HP and anything else i forget (too early in the morn heh)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is raid tanking btw.. screw groups.</DIV>

[ChopStix]

for your stats.. from my experience from raiding, which isnt that long...  mitigation is king....  and then a toss up between aggro / resists /Hp then avoidance.  the only reason i would think that, is in a raid if you have the furies and templars and mystics. your stats go through the roof anyways.. and yes a paladin is worth alot of avoidance to you, and about 315 mitigation plus they also have an intercede and a ward and the spot healing...

[Triste-Lune]

mitigation > raw HP > resist > procs > statsSame goes for weaponsDmg ratio > proc > statsI could have a statless 1 hander with a 99 dmg ratio i d just kill people to get it.

[Dimgl]

<DIV><FONT color=#00cc99>I have a different outlook on tanking than a lot of traditional tanks. I've been tanking in MMOs for almost 10 years solid now, and I've done it as pure healers, as hybrids, and even as a mage before. So because of that I have a different order of priority, it's not about having a big shield, or having big spiky platemail.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#00cc99></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#00cc99>#1 most important thing for a tank is hate generation. Your pretty armor, your big HP pool, and all of your resists mean nothing if the mob isn't on you anyway, does it? I regularly group with a warlock who does 800-1400 dps in a six man group, and it's a challenge, but I hold hate. Tanking isn't about taking the least damage, it's about enabling your team by locking a fight down consistently. You enable your healer to reduce throughput and save power, you enable your DPS to do their job.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#00cc99></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#00cc99>After you hold hate, survival is definitely important. Many people will say that x > y > z when it comes to survivability, and to an extent that is true. However if you completely focus on one aspect of your defense, you end up overspecialized and suffer in other areas. I try to keep all of my defensive options doing well, minimum 60-65% mit, 55% avd at least, and 50% or more in a resist, that way when I get in a group(or raid), and get buffed, I can utilize the buffs given to me, as well as my own mit buffs.</FONT></DIV>

[Henladar Bloodheart ~]

<P>OK im gonna scratch hate of the list.. cause if 23 other people are trusting you to tank a raid you probably have an idea what a taunt is.</P>

[ArcticBlue182]

also dont forget that every 1 point of damage you do also equals 1 point of hate towards you, generating hate really should not be a problem the problems only come when high lvl DPS machines who do not seem know how to play their class go all out from the very start with the uber high lvl CA's or nukes.<div></div>

[Thor Of Hal]

<P>Okay so lets talk AA lines here.</P> <P>We have established that Threat is the NUMBER 1 concern for all tanks... You can have 10k mitigation 10k hp 80% avoidance... but if you cant keep agro you might as well kick yourself out of the raid.</P> <P>So then in theory as a zerker... knowning that alot of agro generating ability lies within our dps in comparison to guardians.</P> <P>an aa line of </P> <P>AA line 1</P> <P>Str: 4, 4, 8</P> <P>Sta: 4, 4, 8</P> <P>Wis: 4,4,8</P> <P>This will give you 20% dps + 22% crit chance + 76% double attack chance = inc in chance of procs to fire. = BIG agro hold</P> <P>in comparison to your classic tank setup:</P> <P>AA line 2</P> <P>sta: 4,8,8,8</P> <P>Wis: 4,4,4,8</P> <P>This gives you BIG buckler reversal hits + 312miti + 5% AoE avoidance (does not grant more avoidance on frontal then a tower shield w/ or without the 5% aoe avoidance) + 9% dps + Double attack 76%.</P> <P> </P> <P>You will definatly hold more agro with with AA line 1 setup as the crit chance is like a constant juggernaut and it works on CA and melee.  The dps means u hit harder with ur 1h + the double attack.   Imo this is the best non weapon specific setup you can get.  And lets not forget often where we get extra dps guardians get better outright taunt.</P> <P>Now the downside to AA line 1 you will loose about 4-5% mitigation and 4-5% avoidance. This is the dilema, you dont always get the best tank group in a raid esp. when ur OTing. And threat is number 1.  </P> <P>I would like to get some oppinions on this. </P> <P>Thanks</P> <P>Vladnor the Berserk</P> <P>70 Berserker</P> <P>Unity</P> <P>Splitpaw</P>

[arieste]

<P>first of  all, Im not quit sure how the prev  poster concludes that hate is the most imporrtant thing after a post saying that we are scratching hate off the list.</P> <P>but anyhow, Im not an experienced raid tank, but I am an experienced raider.  My answer would be... it depends.</P> <P>If the mob you are fighting has massive attacks, then HP is most important since you don't want to get one-shotted.  1000 mit won't help when the mob hits you for 14k and you have 9k HP.</P> <P>For mobs without the big burst hits, its Mit and Resists.  As MT you are usually right in the face of the Nuke and are getting hit by melee asap after, so you want to have both mit and resists.</P> <P>There are a few mobs in the game where Hate is the most important thing.  These are the mobs that require DPS to be going all out and the mob staying on you,  but on **MOST** fights, you can just get DPS to take it slower and still beat the encounter as long as you have the defence to keep taking hits from it.</P> <P>So imho, there is no answer, the best tank is the tank prepared for any situation.  </P>

[Thor Of Hal]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> arieste wrote:<BR> <P>first of  all, Im not quit sure how the prev  poster concludes that hate is the most imporrtant thing after a post saying that we are scratching hate off the list.</P> <P>but anyhow, Im not an experienced raid tank, but I am an experienced raider.  My answer would be... it depends.</P> <P>If the mob you are fighting has massive attacks, then HP is most important since you don't want to get one-shotted.  1000 mit won't help when the mob hits you for 14k and you have 9k HP.</P> <P>For mobs without the big burst hits, its Mit and Resists.  As MT you are usually right in the face of the Nuke and are getting hit by melee asap after, so you want to have both mit and resists.</P> <P>There are a few mobs in the game where Hate is the most important thing.  These are the mobs that require DPS to be going all out and the mob staying on you,  but on **MOST** fights, you can just get DPS to take it slower and still beat the encounter as long as you have the defence to keep taking hits from it.</P> <P>So imho, there is no answer, the best tank is the tank prepared for any situation.  </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Imo, its your job to hold that mob on u while the rest of the 23 players in the raid unleash everything they have on it.  Granted there are situations where spike dps should be avoided.  But dps should never be reduced in a raid.   Its your job to maintain hate on that encounter no matter what, if the MRF has to cap its dps so u can hold agro, your not doing your job.  Admittedly help is required in the form of hate gain/ extra dps buffs to do this, but what im asking is 'How best can i hold agro on my own?'  With the idea that group buffs will add to this.  I love mitigation alot, and im very tempted to keep the 312 miti.  But, if it means im weaker at holding agro... well imo whats the point of it.  To sacrifice this 'classic' mt AA line setup is an unholy thing as far as tanks are concerned, Which is partly why i asked other experience raid zerkers here How they see it.  Essentially, is that 5% AoE avoidance with a buckler + 4/5% u get with 312 miti as crucial as that extra dps/hate edge u get with the dps setup?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Remeber a tower shield/kite shield will always give you better frontal avoidance then a buckler + 8aa points into AoE avoid.   Afiak estimates have put it at 5%.  However, you can use a buckler on any named vitually in the game even crappy ones that drop in HoF. So does that 5% really matter? + with the right gear i could get my mitigation up to 6-6.5kish.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As i say. i have killed tarinax with this setup without much problems.  And Have tanked matron too + Chel.  <BR></DIV><p>Message Edited by Thor Of Halla on <span class=date_text>09-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:51 PM</span>

[arieste]

well that is your opinion of what our role is and you back it up perfectly well.my opinion is that our role is not #1 to keep aggro, but #1 to help the raid kill a mob.  now a lot of the time it means keeping aggro, but thats only a means to an end.<div></div>