Level 64 Master II

[Chaostik]

Hi all,If you already have Engulfing Rage (grp zerk buff) and Berate (encounter taunt) at Master I, then which of the remaining two - Bloodbath (AOE swing) and Combative Rage (grp in-combat health regen) - would people think is best to take at Master II?I think I looked up and Master II of Bloodbath hits for approx 100 more minimum damage than Adept III while the Combative Rage heals for about 13 extra per tick compared to Adept III.Mostly I feel that 13 grp hp regen is just not enough of a boost and that the AOE is a much better deal ... would others agree or not?Thanks!<div></div>

[Fazzarya]

<DIV>To be honest, I think the threat upgrade between M1 and M2 on berate is worth more then the upgrade from either bloodbath or Combative rage at M1.</DIV>

[shealee]

I took Bloodbath as my M2, after getting the M1 of Berate on day 1 of KOS, i didn't see the need for just the little bit of threat increase.

[Chaostik]

<div><blockquote><hr>Fazzarya wrote:<div></div> <div>To be honest, I think the threat upgrade between M1 and M2 on berate is worth more then the upgrade from either bloodbath or Combative rage at M1.</div><hr></blockquote>Hmm, it's interesting you say that.  The upgrade gives you about 30 extra threat.  Now, unless I've not understood the mechanics of the game properly, damage and taunting amount to the same thing when it comes to holding aggro ... but I do more than 30 dmg with auto attack, so one swing of my weapon would more than make up for the 30 less threat points of Master I as opposed to Master II.  Am I missing something here!?BTW, 30 increase is only 3% jump from Master I too.</div>

[Comalv]

<blockquote><hr>Fazzarya wrote:<div></div> <div>To be honest, I think the threat upgrade between M1 and M2 on berate is worth more then the upgrade from either bloodbath or Combative rage at M1.</div><hr></blockquote> It would if Berate (Master II) actually got more than 48% Harder to resist. it doesn't so it simply sucks tbh. of the 2 i would get Bloodbath if u have it ADPIII<div></div>

[Fazzarya]

<P>Again this is only my opinion so I am not claiming this is the definitive answer here, merely explaining my train of thought.</P> <P>Bloodbath takes 2 secs to cast and so interrupts 1-3 auto attacks for me. That's a large range of damage figuring in doubleattack going off but I'd say a safe min would be 550ish damage.</P> <P>It also has a 30 sec refresh and in some cases, due to it being a blue ae CA, is not always soemthing you want to cast.</P> <P> </P> <P>Berate takes .2 secs to cast and so unless you're timing it wrong, does not interuppt your auto melee at all.</P> <P>It has a 20 sec recast so in the time it takes you to cast 2 BB's you can fire off three Berates.</P> <P> </P> <P>Also, I can't think of too many situations where berate would be an ability you would avoid casting and also be in a position where you were trying to gain aggro.</P> <P> </P> <P>From a broader perspective, if you take into account a 3 minute fight:</P> <P>Bloodbath x 6 = ~ 600 -  1398 additional hate at the cost of ~3300 hate(lost auto melee x6)</P> <P>Berate x 9 = ~270 additional hate at no additional cost.</P> <P> </P> <P>In my mind. it's almost better not to use BB at all because I actually lose aggro points casting it. It's fine for group grinds to do damage to multiple mobs but I already lock aggro on those encounters anyway.</P> <P> </P> <P>The above is in perspective to raiding/tanking raids because in my opinion group scenario's we have aggro enough to go around and don't really need to worry about 30-200 hate here and there. But if the argument for maximation were to be made, I'd place my lots on Berate M2.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[kap]

Well, bloodbath does have some benefits if it works like the lower level versions. The lower level versions have quite a few bonuses that work in favor for them even given the 2s cast time. 1 - Has a KD component which can stop spell casting/CAs for it's duration. 2 - Is an AoE so hits multiple targets, more targets should equal more damage compared to 1-3 auto attacks. In addition to allowing for more hate gain especially in multiple encounter situations. 3 - Can trigger the encounter attack in berserker's offensive stance which can generate even more hate. Tanking in dual wield mode, I do frequently use it to gain hate in multiple encounter situations as well as a spell interrupt CA to use when my other two interrupts are down. I also use it sometimes when I lose hate on a random mob, especially if I can't target the stray mob quickly enough. <div></div>

[Obadiah]

<DIV>Well, having stumbled across a M1 of Berate and Engulphing Rage, I typed /respec just out of curiousity and it worked. So I'm all specced up again with those two at M1 and trying to decide between Combative Rage and Bloodbath. Bloodbath can be a PITA because of it's long casting time. I usually use it as an opener for large groups, especially unlinked encounter. It's especially effective in that situation when coupled with Destruction. But I don't always recast it as soon as it refreshes, largely for the reason Fazzarya points out. Interesting points Fazzarya makes, but I'm not going back now. :smileytongue: </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>13 grp HPs per tick does seem "un-sexy", but I think I need to reflect on it in game a bit.</DIV>

[Comalv]

<blockquote><hr>Fazzarya wrote:<div></div> <p>Again this is only my opinion so I am not claiming this is the definitive answer here, merely explaining my train of thought.</p> <p>Bloodbath takes 2 secs to cast and so interrupts 1-3 auto attacks for me. That's a large range of damage figuring in doubleattack going off but I'd say a safe min would be 550ish damage.</p> <p>It also has a 30 sec refresh and in some cases, due to it being a blue ae CA, is not always soemthing you want to cast.</p> <p>Berate takes .2 secs to cast and so unless you're timing it wrong, does not interuppt your auto melee at all.</p> <p>It has a 20 sec recast so in the time it takes you to cast 2 BB's you can fire off three Berates.</p> <p>Also, I can't think of too many situations where berate would be an ability you would avoid casting and also be in a position where you were trying to gain aggro.</p> <p>From a broader perspective, if you take into account a 3 minute fight:</p> <p>Bloodbath x 6 = ~ 600 -  1398 additional hate at the cost of ~3300 hate(lost auto melee x6)</p> <p>Berate x 9 = ~270 additional hate at no additional cost.</p> <p>In my mind. it's almost better not to use BB at all because I actually lose aggro points casting it. It's fine for group grinds to do damage to multiple mobs but I already lock aggro on those encounters anyway.</p> <p>The above is in perspective to raiding/tanking raids because in my opinion group scenario's we have aggro enough to go around and don't really need to worry about 30-200 hate here and there. But if the argument for maximation were to be made, I'd place my lots on Berate M2.</p> <hr></blockquote> My point is: going from Berate (Master I) to Berate (Master II) gives u: no additional resistance bonus, 20-20 threat increase (which is laughable) going from Bloodbath (Adept III) to Bloodbath (Master II) gives u: additional resistance bonuses (my guess is around 5% but never checked), some additional damage that is anyway more than 20-20....also considering that you're gonna use Bloodbath only on non-single-mob encounters that would give u a nice bonus. Also the OP never stated he has STA line did he? Of course this is my opinion <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[yettii]

From my standpoint?  Bloodbath, hands down.I mean I can fund myself through solo/group adventuring very well, but there's some reasons.1.  Treasure your AoEs and use them well.  Zerkers in groups are all about facing multiple opponents at once.2.  You're really meant to get most of your aggro through damage, constant taunting just helps cement your hate position.  Ripostes be damned.3.  Berate M1 is VERY easy to find.4.  Bloodbath M1 is undoubtedly the hardest of the 4 choices to find.When it came time for me to choose, I went with Bloodbath without a thought cause I already had Berate M1 (48% more unresistable my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], STILL misses considerably), and I'd seen the other 2 choices for sale as well.  I eventually got all the other 3 M1.Its not always about the usefulness of the spell compared to the others, its often about how good you can make it.  For instance, when it came time to choose for my Brigand, I took Subterfuge (best one-on-one Brig attack, but the mob <i>must</i> be aggro'd on them; its a counter-attack) not just for the big hit, but it was probably the hardest of all the choices to find.  True enough, to this day, I've only seen a couple of it's M1s for sale on Najena.<div></div>