Should I Exile My 70 Zerk and Come back a 70 Guard

[Demourn]

Hello All, I highly respect the opinons of the folks on this forum.  I am a 70 zerk with 50 aas.  I am on the Nagafen PVP server and as the title states, I have a question to ask. Our guild is now hitting the raids in T7.  We have cleared Lyceum to the last named, same with Labs.  Our guild currently has a 70 guardian that we have been gearing out.  My question stems from the fact that if the guardian goes down, there is essentially no way for us to save the raid.  We have two 70/50 zerks, but the time it takes to hit our buffs and try to get the mob on us, we are usually owned to burst damage.  I know there are zerks that are out there tanking the t7 end mobs.  We are wondering if we need to recruit/class swap to get another guardian, or if we get a zerk properly geared out if he can handle  the mobs that put out the tremendous burst damage?  The guardians Tower of Stone would seem to come in really useful when trying to save the raid and give the healers time to switch to a new main tank. What are your folks opinions?  I would love to hear from the zerks that are tanking the t7 mobs that can give me an objective view. Thanks. Sols  70 zerk - Nagafen <div></div>

[aias]

<DIV>The berzerker is pretty good at snap aggro.  You should be able to grab aggro from the dead guardian.  Stay near the top of the aggro list.  Staying alive will depend on your group makeup, healers being on the ball and how you're geared(i.e. sword & board).  Guards & zerks are interchangeable at the MT position, hence you should be able to 2nd tank it.  :robotvery-happy:</DIV>

[minionofdeath]

I would stay as a Beserker, but fight in defensive stance with all your mit jewelry on, tower/kite shield equipped etc.  It's alot easier to step in ready to go, then trying to switch stances, switching out your 2H etc.  Just be ready to go from the get go.  Have your group setup as close to the MTs group as you can, with all the right buffs to tank these mobs yourself.  Have a go at tanking some mobs from the start of the fights and see how you go.  I won't go into a buff by buff comparison between the two classes, but ToS is a great tool Guards have.  However, that alone is not worth switching over as we have virtually the same for mit buffs etc.<div></div>

[jago quicksilver]

berserkers seem to be the best at AE aggro, so on top of picking up if the MT dies, you would be strong at easily grabbing adds if a few of them peel off, maybe saving a few healers and DPS, which is always a good thing. Most Zerks dont MT, but they can fill in quite nicely, and have other things to bring to the table. also very good to help scouts DPS with the buffs.

[atjtennis]

<DIV>Stay a Berserker you have 0 reason to go Guardian.  yeah ToS is nice but you cannot taunt or do anything when youhave ToS up so more than liekly if you are the 2nd tank and you are a guardian say the mob turns to you and you thro up TOS imediately you willmore thanliekly lose aggro and get a bunch of people killed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>make sure you are in Defensive stance and that your group is set up so you ahve 10-11k HP.  The back up tank should have an inq/templar and a mystic unless you have a 2nd defiler on the raid in your group.  We usually also have an SK in the back mt group with his mit buff on the back up tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In general it is hard to save the raid once the MT dies especially on named mobs and especially if the named mob still has 50%+ health.  I'd say your chances are around 50-60% that you are going to save the raid period.  Because healers need to be aware especially your group whenthis happens everyone needs to back off the DPS to let you get aggro and you gotta hope that when the MT died a bunch of other people didn't die before you got aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also another thing to consider is if you go Guardian all your Relic/class helmet gear you cannot use and all your adept 3 master spells will all be turned into app 1.</DIV>

[minionofdeath]

<div><blockquote><hr>atjtennis wrote:<div></div> <div>Stay a Berserker you have 0 reason to go Guardian.  yeah ToS is nice but you cannot taunt or do anything when youhave ToS up so more than liekly if you are the 2nd tank and you are a guardian say the mob turns to you and you thro up TOS imediately you willmore thanliekly lose aggro and get a bunch of people killed.</div> <div> </div> <div>make sure you are in Defensive stance and that your group is set up so you ahve 10-11k HP.  The back up tank should have an inq/templar and a mystic unless you have a 2nd defiler on the raid in your group.  We usually also have an SK in the back mt group with his mit buff on the back up tank.</div> <div> </div> <div>In general it is hard to save the raid once the MT dies especially on named mobs and especially if the named mob still has 50%+ health.  I'd say your chances are around 50-60% that you are going to save the raid period.  Because healers need to be aware especially your group whenthis happens everyone needs to back off the DPS to let you get aggro and you gotta hope that when the MT died a bunch of other people didn't die before you got aggro.</div> <div> </div> <div>Also another thing to consider is if you go Guardian all your Relic/class helmet gear you cannot use and all your adept 3 master spells will all be turned into app 1.</div><hr></blockquote>I think you're confusing ToS with the monk ability Tsunami ? aITEM 1666922618 -370956665:Tower of Stone (Master I)/aToS does not prevent you from using any abilities at all.  </div>

[Demourn]

Thanks all for the responses.  Gonna try the second MT group and see.

[KhayosAD]

<DIV>I'm a raid MT and have tanked every instance encounter in T7.  Our primary disadvantage is that our HPs are lower, everything else is pretty much solved by a well constructed raid.  You self buffed mitigation should be at least 5200.  Ideally, your raid mitigation will be 6400 (the cap) or if it's lower you can throw up Mayhem or the Wall.  HPs you want to be around 11k.</DIV>

[JohnDoe0057]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KhayosAD wrote:<BR> <DIV>I'm a raid MT and have tanked every instance encounter in T7.  Our primary disadvantage is that our HPs are lower, everything else is pretty much solved by a well constructed raid.  You self buffed mitigation should be at least 5200.  Ideally, your raid mitigation will be 6400 (the cap) or if it's lower you can throw up Mayhem or the Wall.  HPs you want to be around 11k.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>how do you know 6400 mit is the cap? can anyone confirm or deny this?</P> <P> </P>

[AtomiC_WedgiE]

<DIV>Stay a zerk, If your in a good MA tank group and stay in defensive stance.........when and if the MT goes down hit gibe and a rescue and your in control.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My question is, how come your not MT???</DIV>

[metalhed]

<DIV>I would so no to this. I am the backup tank if the guardian goes down and I most of the time have no problem picking it up. If your healers are on their mark when it's time for you to tank ,you will be fine. I will hit Mayhem right when I think the MT is going to go down, sometimes he doesnt but if he does I'm ready.If Mayhem is down and I think hes going down I will hit Wall. Also if its a large group I will try to get Wall and Mayhem off to give healers time to grab me. After the guardian has sustained aggro I will throw a couple single taunts in so its easier to pick up and I don't have to use my rescue. I also use the buckler line , so my dps is still great even while in defensive stance. It's great for pick ups like that. I've tanked all T7 mobs with it, its not a problem IMO to use a tiny buckler lol.</DIV>

[zormik]

<P>Well i MT raids quite a lot. I can tell you  a zerker can fill the MT spot as good as a guardian.<BR>A guardian has TOS.  We have insolent gibe which allow healers to prebuff with less risk...<BR>Espescially on larger encounters i would swap the guardian for the zerker anytime...<BR>Aggrowise we even beat guardians.</P> <P>I would stay a zerk.  Espescially as MA...</P>

[Jvaloth]

<DIV>Good god man, hell no.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardians suck.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zerkers ></DIV>

[Pnaxx]

<DIV>OK.....a bit of a tangent......but when is the best time for Insolent Gibe? I have it....got in in early 50's....im 53 now and have had it for a level or 2 or 3. But I have never been sure when to use it. I see it generated hate, but has a fast duration....15-30 seconds if I am remembering correctly. Now you all are probably talking about a higher level version of what I have, but still, when is the best time to cast it?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks.</DIV>

[Kemwen]

Gibe is an Ancient, and does not get upgraded at higher levels (meaning there's no replacement for it).The situations you're in should dictate it..if there are multiple groups of mobs you're dealing with, it's the easiest way to make sure they're all on you.<div></div>

[Vindorus]

Hi, get some good equip like CoP, Grizz shield and 2x light chitin ring and the stuff from claymore quests. Tell the healers in your group they shall buff you like a tank and have a ward on you everytime. That´s often the reason why the offtank, 2. tank (or how you want to call it) goes down after the MT died. And don´t use gibe if you want to GET aggro but use it to hold it. The proc on this taunt is just amazing...<div></div>

[Kemwen]

If you need to use Gibe to hold aggro, there's a problem.Gibe is for emergency situations, not all situations.  The other taunts we have in addition to Taunting Defense are more than enough to hold aggro.<div></div>

[Bremer]

On raids Insolent Gibe is great in all situations. It's up every second fight, you don't have to fear adds because there is enough room and it gives awesome group aggro vs Warlocks and Conjurors.

[Pnaxx]

<DIV>OK, will Gibe cause agro of non-agro mobs?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, why would we not use it for causing agro when pulling groups that may have a higer chance of gettin outa hand? I thought I saw someone post that we shouldn't start with it up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But thank you for your help with this...sorrry to hijack the thread.</DIV>

[zormik]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pnaxx wrote:<BR> <DIV>OK, will Gibe cause agro of non-agro mobs?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, why would we not use it for causing agro when pulling groups that may have a higer chance of gettin outa hand? I thought I saw someone post that we shouldn't start with it up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But thank you for your help with this...sorrry to hijack the thread.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes gibe causes aggro to non-aggro mobs.</P> <P>Well pulling with insolent gibe can be done but that's not what it's build for.  You can use your normal taunts.</P> <P>In normal heroic situations you use gibe for:</P> <P>-emergency taunt without retargetting when an add comes in and starts hitting the healer<BR>-in situations where it's very important to hold aggro and it gets risky  (like on named fights) you pop gibe and you'll get a huge aggroboost<BR>-handling more then one encounter (your grouptaunt can taunt only one encounter)</P> <P>epic:</P> <P>- it's the perfect opener together with destruction to build up your aggro to very high lvls at the start of the fight. After a minute you can pop open wounds for sustaining your hatelvl...</P> <P>- as offtank you can snap up any add that comes flying in.</P> <P>- All kinds of tricky pullingsituations with HUGE encounters.</P> <P>- Gibe allows healers to safely prebuff you (if they do it with other fighters they often go splat on pull when it's a more tricky pulll)</P> <P> </P> <P>Gibe is by far the best taunt in the game (not speaking about hatetransfers) and it's what makes the zerker a very good MT next to his good dps.  Aggrowise i don't see any competition for the MT-spot due to all our goodies :smileywink:</P>

[Luca Blight]

<P>Hey i'm the MT of my guild The Tribunal on ButcherBlock. I have tanked all encounters in t6/t7. Not bragging but i believe i was the first berserker to Tank Cheldrak when all you heard was a guardian was a must.</P> <P>Ya whoever said it a few post ago unless your on just on a named with no more adds in the encounter you probably wont be saveing the raid, but its possible if your down to one mob and the MT dies. And i agree i dont rely on insolete gibe in my taunt rotation for main agro. I do however use it at the start of fights with many mobs. And if the next fight will be a multiple mob fight i will save Open Wounds, Destruction for that to help build up agro on that encounter. Good points i have is to if you use a dirge for your grp is warn them when your using open wounds to do their melee procs. That extra dmg can proc off open wounds swings too.</P> <P>A nice item to gun for would be the Hurricane forge bracer and Breastplate. The ascendant is ok but you can prob make up the taunt with a better dps weapon.</P> <P>As for going guardian i would keep that choice to yourself. I firmly believe that one day they will give us a decent change that makes us more of a omg class again. Hang in there!</P>

[zormik]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Luca Blight wrote:<BR> <P>As for going guardian i would keep that choice to yourself. I firmly believe that one day they will give us a decent change that makes us more of a omg class again. Hang in there!</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Erm,</P> <P>Aren't we already an omg class?</P> <P>We do amazing dps and we can tank everything in this game...</P> <P>what do you want more lol? :smileytongue:</P>

[Aonach]

Feign Death <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Demourn]

Thanks for all the great info.  Working on grabbing up some more + def items and knocking out the rest of the claymore quest. <div></div>

[Luca Blight]

<P>Considering the changes that have happened to our class vs other classes we arent a omg class. When the combat changes came out in DOF , Zerks was the only class that had a full complete change. Just compare how much stuff we lost vs others. Now all you see is different classes getting rotated as the DPS flavor of the month class.</P> <P>Weaponshield we should of been able to keep, there are so many 2handers in the game why not make them useful. Tanking would go to another level if you had 2hander tanks, dual wielder tanks and everyones build would be alot more different than what you see now if you searched players gear on eq2 players.</P> <P>I know that every class cant be a wow class in this game, but you dont see many people rolling alts that are berserkers/guardians. Its either Bruisers because all the stuff they can solo, fury's for the healing/dps they can do, brigands (no aoes ftw),assasins dps.</P>