Group/Raid defensive AA tank

[Criesi]

<DIV>I have read the long AA post stickied to the top of the forum but this seems to be aimed at more solo and some group play.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mainly group (60%) and will be doing some raiding with my guild (30%), the other 10% will be solo.  Looking for some guidance with which routes to take for AA's based on this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Love the idea of the buckler, but as a defensive stance dont really see the point as I think I would be better with the kite shield.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Initialy thought</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4,4,4,8,8 WIS for MIT</DIV> <DIV>4,4,4,8 INT Parry</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only problem is one uses sword and one hammer.  But the question is will I generate more hate going down the AGI with AOE and defence or the STA using a buckler as in a group or raid need to be able to hold aggro not DPS - so any ideas would be appreciated.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The other build I liked was </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4,4,4,8 AGI - increases def 23.2 and AOE if spear</DIV> <DIV>4,5 STA - gives the buckler to use in groups and solo</DIV> <DIV>4,4,4,8 WIS - increased MIT 320</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Wargurine]

Wether you are grping, raiding, or solo'ing, your gonna want to go down the STA line. And your going to want to at LEAST max out the double attack AA in the sta line or theres no point in even going down it.Your dps is important because that is where a lot of your hate will come from to hold aggro when your tanking. As a raid tank, I found it usefull to have the 100% to parry skill from the AGI line for when I start to spike or the mob gets a lucky hit in, really handy to have. And the AE's are always fun and can help crank your AE dps.<div></div>

[Bu££a2k]

<DIV>I'm planning to end up with this AA build:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wis 4/4/8/8</DIV> <DIV>Str 4/4/8/8</DIV> <DIV>1 spare point for whatever</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wis:</DIV> <DIV>8 points gives 19.2% DPS (Always useful unless you'ld be capped anyway)</DIV> <DIV>8 points gives 312 Mit (Useful, enough said)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Str:</DIV> <DIV>8 points gives % crit chance (Not sure how much as I haven't got this far but again this will always be useful)</DIV> <DIV>8 points gives % hategain (Again Im not sure how much but very useful as a tank)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for why no Sta line...Bucklers look stupid on me so I refuse to wear one :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bezze, 70 Zerker on Runnyeye</DIV> <DIV>Officer of Ascended Heroes</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Kemwen]

4/4/8/8 Wis4/5/8/8 StaThis is my build, and this is what I tank in raids with.  Hate is never a problem for me.  You're wasting points going down STR period...the 10% gain means nothing (trust me, I tried the build).  With WIS and STA, you get buffs to both mit and defense as well.  The damage you're going to do, even in defensive, with double attack at 76% generates plenty of hate on it's own.  You have other tools as well (Taunting Defense, Insolent Gibe, Goading Gesture, Berate, etc).  Hate shouldn't be a problem for you.<div></div>

[Bremer]

<P>My build is</P> <P>4 4 8 8 sta</P> <P>4 4 4 5 1 wis</P> <P>Works fine as mt on raids.</P>

[Hohum]

Isn't it worth putting some points into the first box in strength? More Str means you hit harder AND with double attack more hate etc etc?! Hohum MashedLvL 70 Zerker[Inbreed]Splitpaw

[Bremer]

With 700 str you won't hit harder with more strength

[Wargurine]

STR is so easy to cap you shouldn't need to put points into it.<div></div>

[zormik]

<P>Well i went:</P> <P>STR 4-4-8-8 (i'm not going staminaline, tank with a buckler and loose 7-8% avoidance)</P> <P>WIS 4-4-8-8 (mit, mit and more mit, what can i say <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )</P>

[Bremer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> zormik schrieb:<BR> <P> (i'm not going staminaline, tank with a buckler and loose 7-8% avoidance)</P> <P> </P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>2 %<BR>

[AtomiC_WedgiE]

<P>Mitigation > Avoidence</P> <P>I tried the str line with the hate gain, I'm really not sure it even worked. I gain much more hate with the dps of the sta line. On raids, just put an assissin, coercer, swashy in the MT group for hate.</P>

[zormik]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bremer wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> zormik schrieb:<BR> <P> (i'm not going staminaline, tank with a buckler and loose 7-8% avoidance)</P> <P> </P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>2 %<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Can you give me a bit more to work with then just 2%. I'd believe you but i need some calculations or explanation ...

[Bremer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> zormik schrieb:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bremer wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> zormik schrieb:<BR> <P> (i'm not going staminaline, tank with a buckler and loose 7-8% avoidance)</P> <P> </P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>2 %<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Can you give me a bit more to work with then just 2%. I'd believe you but i need some calculations or explanation ...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Depending on group setup I only loose 2 % avoidance when switching from Qeynos Guard to a legendary buckler.

[minionofdeath]

<div><blockquote><hr>zormik wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Bremer wrote: <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> zormik schrieb: <div></div> <p> (i'm not going staminaline, tank with a buckler and loose 7-8% avoidance)</p> <p></p> <hr> </blockquote>2 % <hr> </blockquote>Can you give me a bit more to work with then just 2%. I'd believe you but i need some calculations or explanation ...<hr></blockquote>You can makeup some of the lost avoidance by buying points in the 4th ability (Gladiator's Revenge).  If you stop at the 3rd ability (Gladiator's Finesse), then you'll lose a ton of avoidance.</div>

[Kemwen]

4-5-8-8 Sta4-4-8-8 WisI tank most anything just fine.<div></div>

[gorlab]

<P>Hi Kemwen;</P> <P>I didnt see in your posts anywhere ( i may have missed it ) but do you use a buckler on raids? My guild has recently asked me to step up and start to lo learn how to MT on raids ( when the main guy that does it is out or wants a break ). I am happy to do this, but that means that my AA spread which is STA , AGIL and INT may not be the best route? I give up about 100 mit and 5 % avoidance with my current AA spread when using my Ironplate shielding vrs my Grizz Shield- it that a big deal for Raids? I am looking for info on this so that when my raid leader see's me holding a buckler he doesnt think I am doing something wrong. I want to be the best MT I can be on Raids - but does that mean maxing out Mit ( by 100 or so in my current makeup ) at the expense of losing 76% chance to Double attack ( by not holding onto a buckler )? Is it worth it?</P>

[Bremer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> gorlab schrieb:<BR> <P>Hi Kemwen;</P> <P>I didnt see in your posts anywhere ( i may have missed it ) but do you use a buckler on raids? My guild has recently asked me to step up and start to lo learn how to MT on raids ( when the main guy that does it is out or wants a break ). I am happy to do this, but that means that my AA spread which is STA , AGIL and INT may not be the best route? I give up about 100 mit and 5 % avoidance with my current AA spread when using my Ironplate shielding vrs my Grizz Shield- it that a big deal for Raids? I am looking for info on this so that when my raid leader see's me holding a buckler he doesnt think I am doing something wrong. I want to be the best MT I can be on Raids - but does that mean maxing out Mit ( by 100 or so in my current makeup ) at the expense of losing 76% chance to Double attack ( by not holding onto a buckler )? Is it worth it?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>76 % double attack >> 100 miti  :smileytongue:

[Kemwen]

I've yet to remove my buckler on a raid yet when I'm tanking.  I'm max mit (80%) in my current state, but not avoidance, but in the end, avoidance really isn't going to make THAT much of a difference if your healers are doing their jobs.  A tower shield will offer you a bit more mit and avoidance, but a lot of your hate is generated from your DPS (the MoA raid I did had 54% of my dmg, of which I parsed #1 overall, from autoattack).Never mind what people say if you're wearing a buckler.  If you do your job, no one will care what you're wearing.<div></div>

[Aonach]

<DIV>It's why SoE nerfed some exisiting bucklers all down to having 392 protection recently. It's because with the STA line we were just a bit to uber with our little bucklers <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Notorious_G]

Curious, is that max mit w/ temp buffs (i.e. 30 sec buffs)?  Even w/ POA you usually hovered around 75% in a raid mt grp.

[Hardain]

I was thinking going to 4 8 8 Sta & 4 4 5 8 8 Wis,  i don't raid tank, atleast yet, so it would be mainly for group tanking and some soloing,  or should i put more into sta line and ignore the last wis ability? <div></div>

[waldemar2]

<P>I'm MT with 4/4/5/8/8 str and</P> <P>4/4/4/8/0 wis</P> <P> </P> <P>Works pretty fine <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Henladar Bloodheart ~]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AtomiC_WedgiE wrote:<BR> <P>Mitigation > Avoidence</P> <P>I tried the str line with the hate gain, I'm really not sure it even worked. I gain much more hate with the dps of the sta line. On raids, just put an assissin, coercer, swashy in the MT group for hate.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>your losing some good buffs with that setup... if you need all that to hold hate... just wow.</P> <P>Ive tried many line to go with wisdom... i hold hate easy enough with all of em</P> <P>Tried AGL.. for the 100% parry... didnt really like it</P> <P>Tried Sta.. hell ya it was nice... but i tried Str too</P> <P>I just switched to STR.. havnt tested it out tanking yet will do so tonight... </P> <P>With my dirge STR line and coercer in group i hold hate easy.. their hate buffs plus the amount im criting with 100% DPS is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] nice.</P> <P>Going Str line has also helped me figure out... if your a DPS zerker (personally i think were tanks.. period... but some zerkers in guild never tank on raids) if your smart youd go STR and STA... now theres some DPS with a good 1H.. max crit.. max double attack.. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]</P>

[Ep]

dps zerker would be best to gostr 4/4/8agi 4/4/8sta 4/4/8as taking the hate gain in str would be nothing for a dps zerker(and counter productive) and if dps zerker really is a dps zerker, then negating the negatives of a buckler for sta, would be pointless too, pump those points into agi for the aoe attacks.i've had str/wis for a long time, usually i'm only rocking 1dirge or coercer 90% of the time. sometimes i'll have both if we really want to burn through trash. i'd rather have a swash or assn and either dirge or coercer(they still rock the parse even if not in dps group, usually b/c of berserker and dps buff too) but haven't had either log on for a bit.heavily been comtemplating sta/wis, but won't go there until i get a decent buckler and better 1h(still pris2, no frostwrath in 3months)<div></div>