Self concious about tanking. Need some advice.

[Velius2820]

Started playing eq2 a year ago, got to level 29 zerker then quit, came back a couple weeks ago and started another zerker he's 25 now.  It's becoming more apparent that to have fun in this game I need to group.  Now I have strictly soloed all those levels and it's getting really boring with nobody to converse with.  My problem is that I really like the Berserker class but I don't know if I'd be able to fulfill the tanking/leading role in a group.  Some sort of example would be like dungeons and instances, I've never been to any of them really and I just don't know if I could keep up and say where the group needs to go or what I'm going to pull because, well I wouldn't know where to start.  I figure I'd be slow and not know my capabilities in a group and bring the group down.  For example a couple days ago a friend was mentoring me on his sk and I was sticking to weak mobs because that's what I'm used to but all of a sudden he tells me to quit pulling the baby crap and lets get some real fighting done over teamspeak and we started pulling multiple heroics and such. I just have a sneaking suspicion that if I started grouping I wouldn't know where to go what to pull, then people would remember I am a bad tank and I wouldn't get invites as much, but maybe I'm just exaggerating the issue.  I've started a dirge and it's really fun solo so far and I was just wondering if you guys think playing the dirge first going through the content and then leveling up my berserker as an alt would be better because then I'd have a clue as to what I was up against.  Also I don't mind being a dps class like a scout or mage because I can essentially get a group and sit back and let them make the big decisions and I can relax and dps without all of the pressure. Would really like some feedback on what you guys would do in my situation.  Thank you for your time. <div></div>

[Dim_Per]

<P>I tank everything in my sight.... I solo very effectively as well as main tank for my groups.... you have to find what you really want to do... join a guild maybe and or find a mentor to talk to about being a zerk... My guild has two solid MT's one iss me and the other is another Zerk ;D</P> <P>We kick [Removed for Content] so don't let anyone make ya change toons <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Savanja]

Tanking is definitely an art form, but we all had to learn how at one time or another.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Previous to EQ2, I was a strictly solo and duo player, and I always played healers.  EQ2 was the first time in which I decided I'd rather play fighters, and I got involved with grouping.I started out playing with people that I knew somewhat.  It makes it much easier if people understand that you are a tanking noob, and they already like you so they won't be mean.  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Started with small groups, and didn't hit mean dungeons, just slayed stuff out in typical areas.  Play with 1 or 2 people and hit yellow con solo's just for the practice of keeping aggro and time management.When I tank in dungeons, I kill whatever is in my path, stopping either for group direction or letting everyone med up for a moment.  I keep an eye on other players health bars to make sure no one has caught a stray mob (because my main char that tanks is actually a monk and we have sucky full encounter taunts. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)As a tank, it is your job to lead and keep everyone safe.  The only way to learn it, is to do it.  And eventually, you'll feel more comfortable in your role, and you won't even give it a second thought.Good luck to you!<div></div>

[Velius2820]

Thanks for the replies, it's definately true when you say the only way to learn it is to do it.  As for my berserker, I'm stickin with it till the end.  I'm going to buck up and deal with it until I get it down and if I am ridiculed by someone well I wouldn't want to be grouping with that person anyways.  Thanks for the comments it was the last push I needed. <div></div>

[Jenguro]

<DIV>I played a warrior in EQ1, but I've lost the confidence that I had since this is a different game, and have the same anxiety that you do.  All I could recommend is to know what tanking entails.  These are small things such as calling your pulls with an emote, knowing your pull strategy (e.g. pull with an arrow), taunt as soon as it's close enough, use your area effect taunt when you have adds, use your hate increasing attacks after your initial taunt, etc.  I'm still new to some concepts, such as being quick to use intervene when a group member is taking damage.  As far as knowing the content, that will come with time, and until then be honest and tell people that you're unfamiliar with the area, and to give you directions about where to go and what to pull.  Usually there's someone in the group who's been there before and is willing to do so.  I do agree though that there's a certain amount of pressure in that role, but it's something that I grew to enjoy over time, i.e. protecting my group from harm, taking satisfaction in knowing that you're playing your class well, etc.  Don't be afraid to ask other tanks for advice as well, particularly if you can be lazy that day and not main tank.</DIV>

[Tolil]

<P>I can 100% understand where the OP is coming from.  The best advice I can give is to ask the advice of higher lvl tanks in your guild as they can normally help you with unfamiliar areas and pulls etc.  I think that once you start MTing for pick up groups and you find that you dont loose aggro every 10 seconds your confidence will rise and you will start to enjoy yourself <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Also, incase you dont already have it EQ2 Map is a very nice addon that will give you maps of most places that dont have a default map. <A href="http://maps.eq2interface.com/" target=_blank>http://maps.eq2interface.com/</A></P>

[Rousso]

<P>If you are in a group the biggest difference it that you have to TAUNT, TAUNT, and more TAUNT. DPS is still important as it is part of how we hold aggro, but it is equally important to taunt early and often. We get an uninterruptable encounter taunt line - at 64 and 54 it is a master II choice. Always throw that first after you pull the mobs. KNow your taunts - go over your taunt skills to know what you have and then practice using them.</P> <P>A group will be able to forgive you not knowing where you are going or not pulling the right mobs if you can HOLD AGGRO! If you cant hold aggro you wont be able to keep a group. </P> <P>When I am tanking a new zone for the first time I just tell the group "never been here before - so feel free to tell me where to go." or "My first time in this zone, so if I seem a little slow...well I am a tank." Again, if you can hold aggro all else will be forgiven.</P> <P> </P>

[KFizzle]

<P>The last guy said it best, all is forgiven if you hold agro <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P> <P>When fighting mobs like White/Yellow/Orange or *gasp* Red, you might want to make sure your using a "Sword and Board' Set up in defensive stance (simply to get yourself used to it so you dont worry about staying up as much). Also just ask questions when needed. I am a aweful person when it comes to remembering directions of things alot of times and unless im in an instance i get lost easily. I just say "Point me in the right direction and away i go" or i throw out my stolen catch phrase (if you can name it and your on Nek, ill give ya 1cp) "You Point, I Punch."</P> <P>Taunt often and the more you group the more you'll learn about the intricacies of the different DPS classes and other classes and how they can take agro. With time you'll pick up all sorts of stuff like what classes stack well together and which dont, which really accentuate our talents and which we help to accentuate (group with a Bard and a Brigand/Swash and watch the Melee dps pour in ... and you will lose agro to the Brig/Swash LOL). Just try to pay attention to your enviornment (mobs nearby, pathing, etc) and you'll be fine. I play in third person so i can keep turning the camera and such while im tanking so i know if anyones near anyone on the screen and i pull em before they add on anyone else.</P> <P> </P>

[IcelusDMent]

Definitely a bit of an artform, and actually is a little like playing an enchanter in that your focus is on controlling a fight, not killing (though that's certainly part of it). I *always* go 1H/shield in defensive stance while grouped (that taunt proc from def stance is great). Some people might say that in slower moving groups you won't need to do that, but as the tank you set the pace, and I keep it going as furiously fast as possible!You'll be able to get a feeling for how much you need to taunt - depending on how much DPS your group is putting out you may not have to taunt every time it cycles, though starting off I definitely recommend doing that. Once you get the feel for how much taunting you need to do to keep aggro, it's often handy to "save it" in case of an add so you can quickly grab aggro. For instance, if you notice a wanderer coming your way, taunt it before it gets in range to aggro and that way it won't jump on a soft group member. For group encounters, use your AoE taunt as often as possible... this one *does* need to be maximized in order to keep aggro off your healer(s), since a heal draws hate from everything.DPS is great, but especially in a group I find it's far better to conserve your power and only use a few attacks (in addition to taunt), so you can keep pulls coming in rather than having to rest. Also, timing your stuns/interrupts/knockdowns on a casting mob can save you from a *lot* of incoming damage or enemy healing. We have a wide variety of abilities that can interrupt a cast, so pay close attention to those healer/mage mobs!

[Ghu]

<P>My Zerker is lvl 54 atm. I have played him as MT in a three to six member group sense lvl 10ish?? I wanted to speak out for the duel wield zerkers out there <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I don't use a shield. I don't think I even own a shield! I have tanked everything through T5 including named and quest named for HQs. I find that the added DPS helps me hold agro better. As I move closer to T7 content I am concerned that my duel wielding ways will go away soon but to date I have zero issue with holding agro with this configuration. The inquisitor I group with has never had trouble keeping me vertical either.</P> <P> </P> <P>I guess my point here is that duel weilding should not be cast aside. It is a viable option.</P>

[IcelusDMent]

<blockquote><hr>Ghunn wrote:<P>I guess my point here is that duel weilding should not be cast aside. It is a viable option.</P><hr></blockquote>For regular groups, holding aggro shouldn't be a big problem no matter what your load-out and stance are, but it all depends on how much you push the envelope when you hunt. Something to remember with dual wield (even vs. a two-hander) is that with more swings, you have more chances for the mob to riposte on you too.I love dual wield from a style perspective (what could be cooler than a wepaon in each hand, swinging away?), but I have yet to play a single MMO that it's been on par with 2 handed weapons. Some games it's very close (this being one of them), so it's by no means a choice that will [Removed for Content] you, but I think that the tougher the fights you're in, the more damage you'll take dual wielding vs. the alternatives. If your healer can keep you standing, you can hold aggro, and the downtime is acceptable to you and your group, go wild! From a pure min/max sense though, 1H/shield will probably be a better option (as would 2H IMHO, but that's a whole other debate!)Bottom line: it's a game, we're playing this to have fun (seems like people forget that sometimes!), so if you are happy and your group is happy, whatever method you're using is the right one.

[RufusDeMar]

<P>and don't forget the extra stun ability when a shield is equipped!!! :smileysurprised:</P>

[Delil]

<DIV>Pick up groups are hard to manage, for many reasons, the least of which are your tanking abilities. Assuming you're not in a guild where someone can really spend time teaching you, you just need to build up confidence and hopefully find some regular friends to group with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My advice is to start small, pick up with one or two people (not 5 where you're the only tank) doing relatively easy mobs (not tripple up blue heroics) and work your way up to that. Your buddy pulling multiple heroics is a scenario for a group who has successful experience together. Groups who don't know each other need to learn, especially at level 25. Chances are that most of them are learning their role just like you are. Even on an alt you are still "new" to that character, even if you are master at another one.  Use the maps mentioned above to get around, that should help.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No need to put pressure on yourself til you get into the higher levels, like above 40. That's when I think the expectations change and people figure you *should* know what you're doing, and even then many have soloed or power leveled their way up and really don't know. Use your 20's and 30's to mess up and figure it out, read the boards, get advice, etc. Who cares if you are a "bad tank" at level 25? I bet you're in the majority.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Omadia <BR>19 Berzerker and still learning<BR></DIV>

[Savanja]

I ended up having this very post in mind when I was writing the <a href="http://eq2.tentonhammer.com/index.php?module=ContentExpress&func=display&ceid=803" target=_blank>'zerker guide</a> for TenTonHammer.Definitely some good advice here.<div></div>

[Bithnar]

Savanja is my hero.  I need to break Bragot out of Qeynos more.

[Jai1]

<P>Know your group and be aware of your surroundings.</P> <P>As a tank/puller, you have to know what your group can handle.  If you only have one healer it is a lot less than if you had two.  Try to do one encounter at a time with one.  If you have another class that can pull, ask them because that takes some heat of of you.  If you do pull, it's no different than soloing.  Learn what mobs are social meaning that they will come on the pull also if they are in close proximity.  Ask the group if you are unsure.  If you are puller, you are regulating the rate of exp so try to be persistant. Be smart about it though.  Watch the healers power or anyone else's and tell them you are breaking for power.</P> <P>If you aren't familiar with the zone, ask someone to guide.   People are understanding.  My GF plays my zerker and I always have someone else to lead for her.  Nobody's ever put her down at least not openly.</P> <P>If you have a cround controller in the group, stick to one target at a time and finish it.  If not, be aware of whats going on because you want to take all the heat.  Watch people health bars.  If they start going down and they are not a necro, look to see whats causing it and get the mobs attention. </P> <P>A lot of mobs have barrage.  It works like ours.  Pull a mob back to the group or gain agro from the puller and turn it so that it is facing you only.  Scouts like this too. Mages don't like to get hit with barrage but sometimes it unavoidable in close spaces so position the mob away from them.</P> <P>Check the levels in the group.  If you have higher level DPS in the group then you will have to do more than just taunt to hold agro.  If not, you can get by with debuffs, taunts and high damage spells.  I have just taunted at times to conserve power and although I have masters, adept IIIs will work well too.  </P> <P>Tanking is a lot of fun.  I think Berzerkers tank great although I have good gear.  Don't think you need the best to be efficient.</P>

[Artalis the Elder]

<DIV>I feel your pain OP. Being MT is intimidating even in small groups if you don't know the people and/or the zone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The answer is simple. Find a good guild with some people with toons/alts in your lvl range. Ideally with Teamspeak for Ventrillo. For learning this game and the more subtle nuances some sort of voice chat is KEY.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Peruse these forms.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Try to get spots as dps or off tanking too it'll give you an opportunity to observe and learn. Ask questions and pay attention.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do these things and within a month you will be better than 60% of the tanks on your server. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Take the job seriously and do your best and your group will love you for it. Your friends list will grow and you will rarely be without a group. Tanking is demanding and unforgiving but if you do it well you shine like no other archetype.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will give you a couple tips though and these are good for all zones.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Pull back into previously cleared areas before moving on.</DIV> <DIV>2) Watch for incoming adds religiously.</DIV> <DIV>3) Always turn the mob so that their back is to the group.</DIV> <DIV>4) Assume that all mobs are social and use body pulls wherever possible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>