Jokernaut

[Rousso]

<div>70 zerk here on Oasis server. I officially move that we rename our juggernaut skill "jokernaut". From henceforth all references to juggernaut will be removed from the player lexicon.</div><div> </div><div>Worthless skill removed from my hotbar, I dub thee - - - - "Jokernaut"</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Furaden]

<div></div>I find that kind of funny, if you ever go 2h dps in a raid, its great!  I can throw it up and start casting my big hits and you can tell a difference in the dps you put out.   Comes in handy on the mobs you have to burn right at the end before the next AOE goes off.  Its a good ability.

[Sambora]

<div></div>I agree with the previous post.  I've read too many posts of people bishing about this CA.  It's not that bad and it does have a use..and it does proc crit hits at a nice clip.  It seems everyone wants the UBER of all UBER CA's.  Well it's not going to happen.  Suck it up, or go play another toon.  That way you'll have something else to [Removed for Content] about. 

[Furaden]

<div></div><p>Oh, just remembered something!!!   People CRY all the time, I cant use it when im tanking..../sigh......its a DPS CA people....are you gonna TAUNT the mob when you are in offensive with a 2h.....i would hope not, if you do...../go away :smileyvery-happy:</p><p> </p><p>bah, some people... /shrug</p>

[Sambora]

<div></div><div>But we can't use it when we are not taking becuase we will get aggro instantly. </div><div>I have something for those whinners too</div><div>/BISHSLAP!</div>

[Silelwen]

Hehe I hardly think 21-29% crit increase (depending on level of spell) for 24 seconds is going to yank agro from a main-tank.This spell needs a major improvement to it's output.<div></div>

[Sambora]

<div></div><p>I wasn't saying it did...I was mocking those who said that.</p><p>Personally I don't think this CA needs an overhaul at all.</p>

[EnigmaticCipher]

<div>If you raid tank this is a completely, totally, 100% unusable skill.</div>

[Wildfury77]

EnigmaticCipher - do u only ever do raid MOBs then, thats pretty UBER!!! he only kills EPICS, rest is beneath him <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Emlar_from_Halas]

<div></div><p>Hey ! I'm glad at least one person finds this CA usefull. :smileysurprised:</p><p>But, it's really a pity that the opportunity to use it, for a reduced subset of zerks, is limited to only raiding dps (and I don't even comment the fact that our dps will always be crap compared to real dps classes).</p><p>This is supposed to be our rare T7 CA, it doesn't mean we have to use it rarely. Couldn't we expect something usefull in many more occasions? This is not a discussion about UBER or not, this is a problem of usefullness. How many times during a 4 hours session will you use it ? If your answer is less than 10, stop thinking people are crying or bishing, and let us comment our point of view.</p>

[Montaigu]

<div>I have to agree.</div><div>Rename it JOKERNAUT!</div><div> </div><div>And for you peeps that are talking all big in this post.  Calling people whiners and such.  Busting on Enig for saying this is useless....."oh you only tank epics ....the rest is beneath you?"</div><div> </div><div>Obviously your not really a Zerker.  Cause if you were,  you would know that you cant fight anything using this CA.  Green ^^^ Heriocs will own you.  And even if your not tanking, the increased damage output from a measely 27% inc in crits and a small increase in CA damage is nothing to write home about.</div><div> </div><div>the only real joke here is all the Zerkers who still think this CA is usefull.</div>

[Furaden]

<div></div><div></div><p>HAHAHA, i love some of these people....I tell you what....here is what we do.  If it gets renamed Jokernaught.......THEN..</p><p>I will renamed my Offensive stance, apparently its useless</p><p>I'm going to destroy all my weapons except my Sword and Board cuz..OH.. they are useless too...</p><p>My offensive set of gear...yeah, I should destroy that too...who needs the extra stats at times, I'll just use my raid gear...yeah...thats is..</p><p>Oh, can i destoy all my CA's that dont effect Epics??  Can I please please please...</p><p> </p><p>Listen people, EVERY SINGLE CLASS has abilities that they dont use depending on the mob, the situation and the group.   Its part of the game, its called class diversity.  And I'm sorry if you guys cant do dps to mobs,  but I can tank like any other zerker, but when It comes to being DPS.......I do alot of it.  If  you cant, then you need to upgrade that t4 gear your still wearing in t7.  In a full raid, I can still make the top 10 every time on the parsar.  I'm nowhere near the warlock or swashy's etc, but I'm not suppose to be.  But I can dps the hell out of the mobs.  Sorry if you cant</p><p>/sigh, some people...</p><p>Message Edited by Furaden on <span class="date_text">04-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:10 AM</span></p>

[Sambora]

<div></div><div></div><p>I TANK EPICS...I CAN'T USE THIS CA <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><p>/WAH!  YOU SOUND LIKE A [Removed for Content]' 3 YEAR OLD!</p><p>IS THAT ALL YOU DO IS "TANK EPICS"?  YOU DON'T KILL ANYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME?  DID I ALREADY SAY YOU SOUND LIKE A 3 YEAR OLD?  S...T..F...U.!</p><p>AND AS FAR AS GREEN TRIP HEROICS GO....I USE IT ALL THE TIME WHEN I SOLO THEM AND I DON'T [Removed for Content]' DIE.  I GUESS I JUST KNOW HOW TO PLAY OUR CLASS BETTER THAN A 3 YEAR OLD.  GO GRAB YOUR BOTTLE AND COME BACK WHEN YOU HIT PUBERTY :smileytongue:</p><p>Message Edited by Sambora on <span class="date_text">04-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:12 AM</span></p>

[Raeyel]

To those who are defending this CA, I think you are ignoring the main reason why Zerkers have a legitimate complaint about it. If you look at all the other new t7 fighter CA's not a single one (except ours) has a penalty involved with it. As such, all of them (except ours) our perfectly viable when tanking. The new bruiser one, for example, procs 150-200 damage and stuns on every CA for 20 seconds. Having Juggernaut do exactly what it does now, but just removing the penalties would more or less bring it in line in my opinion. With the penalties, it is FAR less useful and simply not in the same league as the other new fighter CA's (NONE of which, I remind you, have penalties except ours).Finally, to whoever said that Juggernaut does not take aggro from the Main Tank, that is not entirely true. The most effective use (dps wise) for Juggernaut is to use it in conjunction with open wounds--which very frequently results in aggro on the zerker. Because of this, I think Juggernaut should ideally be a tanking CA...except for the mind boggling penalties!There is a problem with this CA. It simply is not in line with the other new fighter ones.My 2 cents.<div></div>

[KFizzle]

<div>Hotep Rules.</div><div> </div><div>Being a Zerker on Nektulos with me i'm sure he's noticed one thing ... On the Broker are a few Zerk Master 1's...alot of spells not represented but only one there aplenty. If you want to guess what the name is, uh its this one right here, Jokernaut. Last night there was 2 on the FP side and 3 on the Qeynos side from 8P up and i dont think any will sell...hell iknow i wont buy one.</div>

[EnigmaticCipher]

<div>Aye, I generally only tank raid mobs.  Sorry, that's what I do when I play the game.  In that capacity, it is as I stated, 100% useless.  DPS wise, if you are a "DPS" zerker and not tanking, you'll usually want to rampage/open wounds/jugg. which makes since because that's when you'll hit the most and that will  invariably cause you to gain agro and then die in two hits due the extreme penalities of the spell for a whole 27% increase in crits, some minor increase in base damage,  for whopping 24 secs.</div><div> </div><div>So...</div><div> </div><div>Juggernaut: "a massive inexorable force or object that advances irresistibly and crushes whatever is in its path"</div><div> </div><div>....that has a 1300 mitigation loss, 39 levels decrease in parry, 39 levels decrease in defense.</div><div> </div><div>And as already stated, we are the only class with negatives associated with their 65 CA.  Not just one, but three.  All for 24 sec. of minor increases in DPS.  And, it is MINOR.  Just pull our your parsers on raids and watch it.  Your DPS does not go up by much at all.</div><div> </div><div>And then to top it all off.  The kick in the balls is that the master version is a whole 3% increase in crits with no changes to negatives.</div>

[TheBoh]

CONFIRMED Juggernaut still sucks please change it.<div></div>

[Kyriel]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>EnigmaticCipher wrote:<div>Aye, I generally only tank raid mobs.  Sorry, that's what I do when I play the game.  In that capacity, it is as I stated, 100% useless.  DPS wise, if you are a "DPS" zerker and not tanking, you'll usually want to rampage/open wounds/jugg. which makes since because that's when you'll hit the most and that will  invariably cause you to gain agro and then die in two hits due the extreme penalities of the spell for a whole 27% increase in crits, some minor increase in base damage,  for whopping 24 secs.</div><div> </div><div>So...</div><div> </div><div>Juggernaut: "a massive inexorable force or object that advances irresistibly and crushes whatever is in its path"</div><div> </div><div>....that has a 1300 mitigation loss, 39 levels decrease in parry, 39 levels decrease in defense.</div><div> </div><div>And as already stated, we are the only class with negatives associated with their 65 CA.  Not just one, but three.  All for 24 sec. of minor increases in DPS.  And, it is MINOR.  Just pull our your parsers on raids and watch it.  Your DPS does not go up by much at all.</div><div> </div><div>And then to top it all off.  The kick in the balls is that the master version is a whole 3% increase in crits with no changes to negatives.</div><hr></blockquote><p>All I do is raid. Wether I am tanking, or wether our guardian is tanking. I still love this skill.</p><p>Thats funny you say our DPS doesnt go up...... I always get around 1200 to 1300 DPS when I use jauggeraut.  Why do you get aggro? Take off your skill that on every attack it increases your threat.... I never get aggro when I open wounds/destruction/jauggernaut.</p><p>I dont understand why people whine.</p><p>Why do you whine? Because you use it and die? Dont use it when you tank, dont use it when an AE goes off.... there is nothing wrong wilth the skil. Learn to play.</p><p>Not everybody can use every skill in every situation. This is one of those skills that is mainly for DPS.</p>

[Tasi3989]

<div></div><p>Use alot when I am dps and not MT, either raid or group, have yet to get aggro. </p><p>Maybe your MTs need to work on their skills a bit- or give them 15 sec before you go all helter-skelter on the mob. </p><p>My defence is about 400 atm, so losing 39 puts me at about 360, still not too shabby-maxed out wisdom line, so not feeling any defensive penalties on O-stance though, perhaps that is helping me out a little. </p><p>And who is dying fighting ^^^green mobs???? they don't even hit me, good grief.</p>

[Tasi3989]

<div></div><p>Still don't like the ability though, just try to have fun with what I got. </p><p>But the griping isn't all that bad, go check out a Ranger board, haha, that's all they do.</p>

[Bremer]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Zemfira schrieb:<div></div><blockquote> Dont use it when you tank<hr></blockquote></blockquote>You got it, for the majority of zerkers the spell can never be used because they picked a tank to tank. Like said before countless times, all classes get a new spell they can use every time they want for free while only beserkers get a spell with extreme high penalties and therefore extremely limited use and nothing is more stupid than giving a tank class a new spell which is useless while tanking.

[TheBoh]

I really don't understand the penalties with this ability, i have Master 1 and it only gives 27% crit chance, without the penalties it still wouldn't be overpowered.<div></div>

[Kyriel]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Bremer wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Zemfira schrieb:<div></div><blockquote> Dont use it when you tank<hr></blockquote></blockquote>You got it, for the majority of zerkers the spell can never be used because they picked a tank to tank. Like said before countless times, all classes get a new spell they can use every time they want for free while only beserkers get a spell with extreme high penalties and therefore extremely limited use and nothing is more stupid than giving a tank class a new spell which is useless while tanking.<hr></blockquote>I agree its stupid to give a tank class a skill they can't use for tanking. BUT... its meant for DPS. Plain and simple. I just dont understand why you people can't accept the skill for what it is. Boo frikin who you can't use it all the time.

[Bremer]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>Zemfira schrieb:</p><p>I agree its stupid to give a tank class a skill they can't use for tanking. BUT... its meant for DPS. Plain and simple. I just dont understand why you people can't accept the skill for what it is. Boo frikin who you can't use it all the time.</p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>If I wanted dps I wouldn't play a tank class.</p><p>Anyway, it's still stupid because the other fighter classes get also new damage spells, but like said before (it's getting boring) they get it for free, only beserker have to pay for it, which is extremely unfair.</p>

[dremtak]

i do like this spell.............it gives us some added "chaotic" dmg which is what the zerker is all about.can you use it while tanking......um hell no.......................but i love having acess to this spell when im not tanking.if anything would like to see greater increases in its proc rate.......................perhaps cap it off at 40% at master one and give sufficient levels under that.<div></div>

[Tasi3989]

<div></div>I could live with it without the decrease health tic.  Hard to use on a raid or such when AOE's are coming in, dont wanna get caught w/o full health when they go off.  Tested it out today, just not very user friendly.

[JTG753]

<div>Doesn't each class get a signature skill at 65? Pretty sure..my monk's is the Dragon Breath. Anyway point being..sounds like a class defining skill. So, if this is a DPS skill as people keep claiming and your butt is handed to you if you use it while tanking(and beserkers are tanks) that is saying we are a DPS class a bit much. It shouldn't punish people who tank, all skills shoudl be capable of being used in any situation in some form...this one is not, unless dieing is the new way of winning the battle.</div><div> </div><div>Didn't choose a beserker to be a crappy scout for 20 so seconds...I did so I could tank and have some dps while doing it..WHILE doing it I say again. I want to be able to use my skill like everyone else can..too much punishment for choosing this class....oh yeah fix our helmets:-p</div>

[Montaigu]

<div></div><div></div><p>Good one Sambora,</p><p><em>" TANK EPICS...I CAN'T USE THIS CA <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </em></p><p><em>/WAH!  YOU SOUND LIKE A [Removed for Content]' 3 YEAR OLD!</em></p><p><em>IS THAT ALL YOU DO IS "TANK EPICS"?  YOU DON'T KILL ANYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME?  DID I ALREADY SAY YOU SOUND LIKE A 3 YEAR OLD?  S...T..F...U.!</em></p><p><em>AND AS FAR AS GREEN TRIP HEROICS GO....I USE IT ALL THE TIME WHEN I SOLO THEM AND I DON'T [Removed for Content]' DIE.  I GUESS I JUST KNOW HOW TO PLAY OUR CLASS BETTER THAN A 3 YEAR OLD.  GO GRAB YOUR BOTTLE AND COME BACK WHEN YOU HIT PUBERTY <img border="0" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif" width="16" height="16">"</em></p><p><em></em> </p><p>All this coming from the guy who had to Post on the forums to find out if MAYHEM was the upgrade to CHAOS.</p><p>Sounds like you know your class very well! </p><p>I salute you!</p><p>LOL</p><p>Message Edited by Montaigu on <span class="date_text">04-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:18 AM</span></p>

[Sambora]

<div>Um, I knew that it was the upgrade to Chaos monkeyspank!  I had just never seen it on my server.</div><div> </div><div>Get a clue and read my original post again rather than make a post and make yourself look like a freakin' toolbag!</div>

[KFizzle]

<div></div>He probably just had trouble with your use of the english language. The lack of a comma kind of made it seem like you weren't merely asking if the Mayhem spell was available/released in Game, but rather if Mayhem was the upgrade to Chaos in the game.

[Sambora]

<div>Well here you go...here's a copy of my original post:</div><div> </div><div>Is this level 68 upgrad to Chaos in the game?  I've searched the brokers on MM, but have yet to come accross it.  Maybe it's just that I keep missing it when it's out there, but  I have been looking for it since I hit 66.</div><div> </div><div>Oh, I see how that [Removed for Content] got confused...I didnt' put an E at the end of upgrade! </div><div>Thanks for showing us that your a total tool!</div>

[KFizzle]

<div>Now i know me being the calm voice of reason to some of my fans out there is a bit of a 'novel' idea, however let me simply ask this. Do we need to be so hateful and insulting towards one another? Sure, There will be people who say "we're berserkers this is how we are" but thats in game, we all play the same class and want the best for it, can't we all just get along?</div><div> </div><div>/discuss.</div>

[Sambora]

<div></div>Bah...if we all wanted to get along we would be playing Druids <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[KFizzle]

<div></div><p>Druids Suxx0rs!!! Anyone who plays a Druid Suxx0rs!!!</p><p> </p><p>/sarcasmoff</p><p>Now watch the flames ensue due to a joke that im even labeling a joke in the post.</p>

[Montaigu]

<div></div><div>Double Post.</div><div> </div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Montaigu on <span class="date_text">04-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:35 PM</span></p>

[Montaigu]

<div>Thats your story noob.  I will stick with mine.........you probably edited the text to cover up your noobishness! lol</div><div> </div><div>Besides, who uses Adepts 1 anyway?   --------> Noobs = Sam <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>Looking forward to your reply</div>

[KFizzle]

<div> ... I don't even HAVE an adept 1 of Mayhem...I'm level 70 and i'm still using my adept 1 of Chaos. I r teh lose.</div>

[SwordsEd]

<div></div>This one doesnt suck as much as the one that requires a buckler....might as well give us one that requires we use leather armor. They could call  it the Master I YMCA.

[Ep]

^~~ you talkin aa? sta line has advantages that you can actually build up to nearly equal a tower, while also attaining other abilities. Jugg, just doesn't do anything near that.Do ppl that like jugg, also spec in STR line? maybe thats how crits seem useful, if they're stacked up, otherwise... no it's not the slightest bit considered dps.<div></div>

[Sambora]

<P>Hey Monty</P> <P>Why don't you go to my original thread and see if my original post has ever been editied?  Go ahead...do it...make another complete a-s-s out of yourself.</P> <P>And FYI...currently I have an Adpet 3 version of Mayhem on my hotbar....matter of fact, it's a couple spots away from Jokernaut <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Anytime you want to come over to MM for an asskicking, I'll be waiting.</P>

[Echgar]

This thread is pretty out of hand with the personal attacks, insults, and namecalling so I need to close it.  Please remember that when posting, you need to abide by the <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=faq&message.id=25" target=_blank>Forum Rules of Conduct</a>.<div></div>