Warrior Achievement FAQ and Analysis [Archive]

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Dimgl

03-22-2006, 10:27 PM

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>Foreword: Hello, this FAQ began as I compiled notes for myself on the Achievement system. This is not an FAQ on how the achievement system works entirely, there are already plenty of guides out there if you are trying to figure out how to get Achievement points, or how the overall system works. What this guide instead aims to accomplish is to offer -accurate- information on the lines, then numerically compare the different lines, and help others arrive at an achievement plan they are satisfied with. If you find this FAQ useful please ask for the thread to be stickied, thanks.This FAQ is built on theory and personal experience, the information is correct to the best of my knowledge. The amount to which each ability has been tested is listed above it in parentheses. If you have tested an ability to a higher level than I have please post information regarding the higher levels of the skill.If you see any errors in this FAQ let me know, and I'll fix it.The Basis of Warrior Achievements:Each warrior achievement line follows a fairly simple progression. Statistic Bonus -> Limited Combat Art -> Offensive Bonus -> Defensive Bonus -> "Ultimate"The lines are balanced on a fairly simple premise, and one that certainly crossed the developer's minds in their construction: Each path should offer similar, yet different returns to the warrior.Tier 1: Statistic BonusThe warrior receives a bonus to statistics, weighted based on how much those statistics effect the warrior. STR, AGI, and STA being our primary statistics are given less easily than WIS or INT, in order to smooth the difference between the statistics.Tier 2: Limited Combat ArtThe warrior is given combat arts which require specific armaments to perform. This is a cross between flavor and utility. Each combat art offers different benefits to the warrior, and requires specific tradeoffs.Tier 3: Offensive BonusThe warrior is given options to increase their damage. Almost all of these options are intended to increase total DPS evenly. This will be explained in an appendix.Tier 4: Defensive BonusAll of the defensive options are oriented towards a generally equal equal boost to defense, pre EOF they all resulted in a 4.5-6% net boost in defensive potential. In EOF this however has changed somewhat, it is now more based on the relative defense you had prior to speccing the points.Tier 5: "Ultimate"Varies, read below.================================================== ======Tier 0: OpenerName: Bind WoundMechanic: Combat Art like ability (4.0 second cast, 0.5 second recovery, 2 minute recast, only useable out of combat)Limitation: Level 20, 1 Achievement PointEffect (Initial): Restores 25% of the Warrior's health, and places the effect Bind Wound on the warrior for 3 minutes. When a warrior strikes a successful melee attack under Bind Wound, Bind Wound is removed, and the Invigorated effect is placed on the warrior. Invigorated lasts 20 seconds, and causes combat arts to deal an additional 10% damage.Art: Yellow pyramid with runes appears overhead while performing this ability.Comments: This is arguably one of the best single point opening abilities out there. Amazing for the solo warrior, or the party warrior, the HP heal can be cast while moving, useful for for fleeing from enemies (after calling for help if necessary), reducing downtime, used before you use longer cooldown high damage combat arts you can increase their effect by 10%, or you can use it before a tough fight just to add some additional damage.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None.================================================== ======Strength Line: ExecutionerThe Strength line finds its inspiration in the Executioner, bringers of death who viciously strike the vital points of their enemies, bringing them swift and complete death. Icons of fear and resentment, Executioners are fearsome opponents who capture the attention of their opponents with their intimidating presence and hold it as their opponents struggle to protect themselves from the mortal blows of the Executioner's heavy axe. Executioners are highly volatile, having what may at first appear to be a wild fighting style, however their dynamic fighting often allows them set their opponent up for the ultimate 'coup de grace.' The Executioner may be seen as an agent of death, for even when it seems death will surely come for the Executioner, it appears death will often side with the Executioner instead, guiding the blade of the Executioner to quickly end the life of others, so that the Executioner may fight another day.Comments: The Executioner line is built on the premise of high burst damage that in some cases is beyond the control of the Executioner. With a "set-up" technique, improved critical rate, and hate generation an Executioner is capable of putting their power and combat arts to use more efficiently and effectively than any other line. Executioners will find themselves relying on technique and efficiency in their killing.(Level 4 tested)Tier 1: Statistic BonusName: Executioner's StrengthMechanic: Silent (No-icon) stat buffLimitation: Bind Wound (Level 1)Effect (Initial): +4.0 STREffect (Further): +4.0 STREffect (Level 4): +16.0 STREffect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: +32.0 STRArt: Unknown or NoneComments: The opening to the Executioner line is a flat bonus to strength, improving the overall damage capabilities and power pool of the Executioner. This is fitting, as the Executioner is likely to be more reliant on combat arts to fight. STR also improves ATK rating, improving general acccuracy.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None.(Level 4 tested)Tier 2: Limited Combat ArtName: Executioner's WrathMechanic: Combat Art (0.5 second cast, 0.5 second recovery, 30.0 second recast)Limitation: Axe or Great Axe equipped in Primary, Executioner's Strength (Level 4)Effect (Initial): Direct Damage combat art that applies buff Executioner's Wrath on completion. Executioner's Wrath improves crit chance on next melee attack by 59%.Effect (Further): Additional damage and crit chance (+~4%) until level 4, +10% on level 5, unknown further. (NON-LINEAR)Effect (Level 4): Direct Damage combat art that applies buff Executioner's Wrath on completion. Executioner's Wrath improves crit chance on next melee attack by 70%.Effect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: Direct Damage combat art that applies buff Executioner's Wrath on completion. Executioner's Wrath improves crit chance on next melee attack by ??%.Art: Overhead cleave with flame particles on the weapon.Comments: This is the Executioner's 'set-up' technique. If planned carefully and timed well, Executioner's Wrath can be used with a devastating combat art (such as an aoe) to dramatic effect. You must be very careful with this technique, as the Executioner's Wrath buff can be consumed on auto attacks, making technique and timing absolutely vital to this ability.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None.(Level 1 tested)Tier 3: Offensive BonusName: Weapon ExpertiseMechanic: Silent (No-icon) stat buffLimitation: Executioner's Wrath (Level 4)Effect (Initial): +2.8% chance to critically hit.Effect (Further): +2.8% chance to critically hit.Effect (Level 4): +11.2% chance to critically hit.Effect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: +22.4% chance to critically hit.Art: Red Pyramid with runes appears overhead when points are spent in this skill.Comments: Weapon Expertise grants the Executioner improved chances to critically hit their opponent. This is the only offensive bonus which has an effect on both auto-attack and combat arts, making it a powerful option for those interested in doing DPS.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: DPS Analysis.(Completely untested)Tier 4: Defensive BonusName: Executioner's AngerMechanic: Silent (No-icon) mechanic multiplierLimitation: Weapon Expertise (Level 4)Effect (Initial): +1.3% (1.25%) additional hate(threat) is generated by the Executioner's actions.Effect (Further): +1.25% additional hate(threat) is generated by the Executioner's actions.Effect (Level 4): +5.0% additional hate(threat) is generated by the Executioner's actionsEffect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: +10.0 additional hate(threat) is generated by the Executioner's actionsArt: UnknownComments: The cold ferocity of the Executioner stirs resentment and fear in all those he comes across. This ability improves the overall hate(threat) generation of the Executioner, on all techniques, auto-attacks, and actions.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None.(Completely untested)Tier 5: UltimateName: Executioner's FuryMechanic: Passive Buff, Conditionally ActiveLimitation: Executioner's Anger (level 4)Effect (Initial): When the Executioner's health drops below 50% they will gain the effect of Furious. Furious increases combat art damage by 15%, melee crit chance by 25%, and is removed when the warrior recovers over 50% health or two minutes pass without the warrior re-activating furious.Art: UnknownComments: This ability gives Executioners a chance to make a last-ditch gung-ho effort to take their opponent down before they fall themselves. This ability is of questionable usefulness, as it is unlikely to be useful to any tank (not many healers are comfortable leaving their tank in orange,) or even many warriors in DPS mode (who aren't likely to take much damage.) For the gutsy soloer this ability may be useful, however I am uncertain.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None.================================================== ======Agility Line: DragoonThe Agility line is based on the idea of a Dragoon, historically a light calvalry soldier who were known for mobility and acting as shock troops. Dragoons are agile, graceful fighters who frustrate opponents with their evasive movements, all the while striking arcing blows from many angles, leaving the opponent and allies vulnerable. Keeping a distance with their spears, a Dragoon must be a master of controlling his opponent's movements and using their own mobility to ensure advantage over their opponents. When hard pressed, the Dragoon may abandon their offense, using their spears to create an unbreachable distance, and impenetrable barrier to the weapons of their foes. Be wary should a Dragoon come upon you and your allies' camp, for it shall be as if a cyclone struck.Comments: The Dragoon line is built for warriors who love to charge into battle, and fight many foes at once. With their auto-attacks striking multiple foes, a longer-range AOE attack, and improved 360 avoidance, dragoons are capable of wading into hordes of enemies and cutting a swathe worthy of their name. Dragoon's offer parties a tank with superior AOE hate control, a very powerful emergency, and consistently higher evasion than other lines.(Level 4 Tested)Tier 1: Statistic BonusName: Dragoon's AgilityMechanic: Passive "Silent" (No-icon) stat bonusLimitation: Bind Wound (Level 1)Effect (Initial): +6.0 AGIEffect (Further): +6.0 AGIEffect (Level 4): +24.0 AGIEffect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: +48.0 AGIArt: Unknown or NoneComments: Agility grants avoidance for warriors. The effect of this bonus is much more noticeable at lower levels than higher levels, however it is still a very useful stat for warriors, offering improved 360 defense.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None. Evasion from agility varies very much with level.(Level 4 Tested)Tier 2: Limited Combat ArtName: Dragoon's SpinMechanic: Combat Art (1.0 second cast, 0.5 second recovery, 60.0 second recast)Limitation: Spear or Great Spear equipped in primary, Dragoon's Agility (Level 4)Effect (Initial): PBAOE Direct Damage, varies with level.Effect (Further): Additional PBAOE Direct Damage, varies with level.Effect (Level 4): PBAOE Direct Damage, varies with level.Effect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: PBAOE Direct Damage, varies with level.Art: Perform the AOE combat art animation with blue light/particle effect on the weapon.Comments: Dragoon's Spin is a PBAOE 7.5 meter range physical damage attack that is capable of hitting 8 targets, 1.0 second cast, 0.5 second recovery, 60.0 second recast . The damage on Dragoon Spin varies with level, however it can be somewhat compared to an equivalent rank of your nearest spell in the "Whirl" line (PBAOE knockdown + DD 30 second cooldown). As in Rank 1 Dragoon Spin will compare to App 1, Rank 8 Dragoon Spin could compare to M1. This is not an exact comparison, but a rough idea from my experience. This is a very fast casting, very solid AOE, and will help Dragoons solidify AOE hate on multiple encounters.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None.(Level 8 Tested)Tier 3: Offensive BonusName: Dragoon's CycloneMechanic: Combat Art Self-BuffLimitation: Dragoon's Spin (Level 4)Effect (Initial): 3.0% chance that auto-attacks will hit up to 4 targets in front of the Dragoon.Effect (Further): 3.0% chance that auto-attacks will hit up to 4 targets in front of the Dragoon.Effect (Level 4): 12.0% chance that auto-attacks will hit up to 4 targets in front of the Dragoon.Effect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: 24.0% chance that auto-attacks will hit up to 4 targets in front of the Dragoon.Art: When cast a purple pyramid with runes appears overhead. When the ability procs there is no noticeable animation or effect.Comments: Dragoon's Cyclone does not require a spear. Dragoon's Cyclone is a toggleable buff which is cast on yourself, 3.0 second cast, 0.5 second recovery, 10.0 second recast. Attacks which trigger Dragoon's Cyclone will cause an auto-attack check on up to 4 enemies total in front of the Dragoon. Even if the hit that triggered Cylone misses, you will still attack all nearby opponents. The area of effect for Cyclone is roughly melee range in a 180 degree spread in front of the Dragoon. These cyclone auto-attack checks are treated exactly as if you auto-attacked these targets, meaning you can trigger proc effects that can be triggered off auto-attacks, and also that you can miss, be parried, blocked, or crit the attack. These attacks will break any crowd control effects, even if the target has been removed from AOE. Dragoon's Cyclone is a toggle-able buff however, allowing you to disable it in crowd control situations.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None.(Completely Untested)Tier 4: Defensive BonusName: Dragoon's AvoidanceMechanic: Silent (No-icon) skill bonusLimitation: Dragoon's Cyclone (Level 4)Effect (Initial): +Varying DEF skill.Effect (Further): +Varying DEF skill.Effect (Level 4): +Varying DEF skill.Effect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: +Varying DEF skill.Art: UnknownComments: The Dragoon, having established themselves as a master of AOE combat is now capable of better evading enemies attacks while continuing their graceful assault. This ability grants improved 360 avoidance, allowing the Dragoon to wade into packs of enemies with less danger. The additional DEF skill granted by this ability can be used to reduce the penalty of fighting in Offensive Stance (a wicked combination being Dragoon's Cyclone proccing additional Furious Onslaughts for berserkers) or can be used to further shore up one's defense skill in Defensive stance, bringing the Dragoon closer to skill cap.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None.(Completely Untested)Tier 5: UltimateName: Dragoon's ReflexesMechanic: Combat Art (0.2 second cast, 12 second recovery, 10 minute recast)Limitation: Dragoon's Avoidance (Level 4)Effect (Initial): When activated the Dragoon will parry all incoming physical attacks and combat arts from all quadrants for 12 seconds. The Dragoon is incapable of using any other arts or techniques during this time, due to the 12 second recovery period on the ability. You can not (should not be able to) cancel this ability in order to use other abilities due to the 12 second recovery. You can move while using this ability. (Should be able to.)Art: UnknownComments: This ability is untested. This is an emergency ability which grants the Dragoon physical immunity in exchange for ceasing their offensive abilities. This is a very powerful tool for warriors who are interested in fighting very powerful opponents, such as raid encounters, and would benefit from an emergency life-saver technique to counter damage spikes. Costing 8 points, and carrying a hefty recast timer, it may not be a technique that a casual player is very interested in, while it may be something a raid tank considers desirable above all others. However that doesn't mean that any player may not find this ability useful in order to pass unharmed through dangerous territory, or to be used while fleeing, or even in a small group. However the utility should be considered carefully, given the cost.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None.================================================== ======Stamina Line: GladiatorThe Stamina line is based on the idea of a Gladiator, perhaps those of Roman history who fought in the Arena with naught but a few scraps of armor, and very poor weapons. These gladiators needed to be tough, cunning, and enduring in order to survive the marathon style elimination matches they were subjected to. With death around every corner, and the myriad of tunnels, trap doors, and other entrances into the arena, Gladiators quickly learn to defend themselves from all angles, fighting to live another day. Defending themselves with light shields, the Gladiator may seem weak, however it is on the mistakes and assumptions of their opponents that they capitalize, reversing opponent's attacks and striking them with quick flurries of blows, hoping to strike down their opponent quickly while preserving themselves.Comments: The Gladiator line is what may be considered the "hybrid" option. Offering the greatest increase in auto-attack, and power-free DPS, a Gladiator is capable of matching a warrior using DW or 2h Weapons while sacrificing some but not all of their defense potential. This line may appeal most to players who play in small parties, or solo. Gladiators are still capable of tanking quite well, but are also quite capable of chipping in some nice damage. For those who are solely interested in DPS, or defense, the Gladiator path offers conflicting interests the oppurtunity cost of which can not compete with other lines.(Level 4 Tested)Tier 1: Statistic BonusName: Gladiator's StaminaMechanic: Silent (No-icon) stat buffLimitation: Bind Wound (Rank 1)Effect (Initial): +5.0 STA (~23 HP)Effect (Further): +5.0 STA (~23 HP)Effect (Level 4): +20.0 STA (~92 HP)Effect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: +40.0 STA (~184 HP)Art: NoneComments: The opener for the STA line is likely only to be taken to level 4, which grants nearly 100 HP to the warrior. A decent bonus at low levels, though of questionable influence at higher levels. This is a solid opener for the STA Line.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None.(Level 8 Tested)Tier 2: Limited Combat ArtName: Buckler ReversalMechanic: Toggleable Passive Self Buff (Combat Art)Limitation: Buckler equipped in secondary, Gladiator's Stamina (Level 4)Effect (Initial): When toggled the Gladiator receives a passive buff called "Buckler Reversal." While active, Buckler Reversal will trigger when the Gladiator is missed, blocks, parries, or ripostes, or when the opponent is missed, blocks, parries, ripostes or deflects. This effect can trigger once every 30 seconds, and automatically refreshes itself. Damage varies with level.Effect (Further): (Additional damage.)Effect (Level 4): (Additional damage.)Effect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: (Additional damage.)Art: The same animation as shield bash, or shoulder charge like techniques. When cast a ring of blue particles descend from above the caster, then coalesce about them.Comments: Gladiator's Strike is an instant DD attack that can be performed while disabled as in stunned or stifled, and can also proc on miss ranged shots under some strange circumstances. (Throwing your shield at the enemy? I guess Captain America specced this line. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) This ability is a solid addition to the Gladiator's arsenal, having no power cost, and being instant cast. In an upcoming update this ability will be transformed into a passive ability that can be toggled, and will trigger once every 30 seconds when the conditions are met.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None.(Level 8 Tested)Tier 3: Offensive BonusName: Gladiator's FinesseMechanic: Silent (No-icon) mechanics buffLimitation: Buckler equipped in secondary, Buckler Reversal (Level 4)Effect (Initial): 13.0% chance to double-attack on melee and ranged attacks.Effect (Further): 9.0% chance to double-attack on melee and ranged attacks.Effect (Level 4): 40.0% chance to double-attack on melee and ranged attacks.Effect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: 76.0% chance to double-attack on melee and ranged attacks.Art: There is no animation associated with the double-attack proc.Comments: This is the only offensive bonus that has an equipment limitation, and as such it is dismissed easily by many. However Gladiator's Finesse, unlike other offensive bonuses, offers a tremendous increase to DPS. The chance to double-attack is not normalized for weapon speed, and will occur equally on fast or slow weapons. This is a flat DPS bonus, which if taken higher than 33.0% is capable of surpassing DW or 2h weapon styles, while still having a shield equipped. This ability is by far the heart and soul of the STA line. As of LU#23 the second attack in a double attack is unable to trigger a proc effect.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: DPS comparison.(Level 8 Tested)Tier 4: Defensive BonusName: Gladiator's RevengeLimitation: Buckler equipped in secondary, Gladiator's Revenge (Level 4)Effect (Initial): 1.0% additional chance to block frontal attacks. 1.0% additionalchance to riposte frontal attacks, attacks from other quadrants have an equal chance of being parried.Effect (Further): 0.5% additional chance to block frontal attacks. 0.5% additionalchance to riposte frontal attacks, attacks from other quadrants have an equal chance of being parried.Effect (Level 4): 2.5% additional chance to block frontal attacks. 2.5% additionalchance to riposte frontal attacks, attacks from other quadrants have an equal chance of being parried.Effect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: 4.5% additional chance to block frontal attacks. 4.5% additionalchance to riposte frontal attacks, attacks from other quadrants have an equal chance of being parried.Art: A green pyramid with runes appears overhead when points are invested in this skill.Comments: The Gladiator sacrificed frontal avoidance by using a buckler in the earlier lines, weakening his defense. Gladiator's Revenge is a defensive bonus which helps to reduce the penalty of using a buckler, while at the same time offering the gladiator additional protection from other angles. While it may seem to be a small amount on paper, the Gladiator is in fact receiving 9.0% frontal avoidance, and 4.5% surround avoidance, which is significant. Gladiator's Revenge re-solidifies the Gladiator's role as a defensive/endurance fighter.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: Shield block comparison.(Completely Untested)(--- Ability currently bugged ---)Tier 5: UltimateName: PerseveranceMechanic: Passive Self-BuffLimitation: Gladiator's Revenge (Level 4)Effect (Initial): Target consumes 10% less power on an ability's use, 15% of power consumed is instead added to the Gladiator's health pool.Art: Unknown.Comments: This ability was improved with LU 24, however it is still lacking. For those who have power issues, this ability may be worth considering to improve your efficiency, however it is unlikely that it could compare in the long run to simply improving your offense to end fights faster, or improving your defense to preserve hit points, and thus reduce downtime. Even with 3000 power, which would be difficult to spend over an entire minute (without sprint) you would only recover ~450-500 health, which is not a very big deal, especially for Berserkers who have an in combat regens. This ability is primarily designed for efficiency and power consumption reduction, if you find yourself tapping out before your party members often it should be considered.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None.================================================== ====== Wisdom Line: DemolisherThe Wisdom line looks to the grizzled veterans of the battlefield to draw its inspiration for Demolishers. Wise in their ways, having survived countless battles, Demolishers have learned to instinctually seize oppurtunities when presented, and have proven themselves unshakeable even against overwhelming odds. While not as flashy, or prone to heroics as others, Demolishers are trustworthy and reliable, seasoned soldiers that can be expected to perform well in any situation.Comments: The Wisdom line is the "bread and butter" line. What you've always done, done better. For players who aren't drawn to the other achievement lines, Wisdom is the safe bet for performance. Offering a simple yet effective mixture of traditional options, tanks and DPS alike may be drawn to this line's offerings.(Completely untested)Tier 1: Statistic BonusName: Demolisher's WisdomMechanic: Silent (No-icon) stat buffLimitation: Bind Wound (Level 1)Effect (Initial): +7.0 WISEffect (Further): +7.0 WISEffect (Level 4): +28.0 WISEffect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: +56.0 WISArt: UnknownComments: Wisdom improves magic resistance for warriors. This is a useful stat, even if not used as often as the three more physical statistics.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None.(Completely untested)Tier 2: Limited Combat ArtName: Belly SmashMechanic: Conditional Combat ArtLimitation: Great Hammer, Hammer or Mace equipped in primary. Demolisher's Wisdom (Level 4)Effect (Initial): While target is knocked down does DD (varies with level) and reduces physical mitigation (varies with level).Effect (Further): Additional damage and physical mitigation. (Projected, untested.)Effect (Level 4): Additional damage and physical mitigation. (Projected, untested.)Effect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: Additional damage and physical mitigation. (Projected, untested.)Art: Unknown.Comments: Due to having to be used after a knockdown this ability is most likely to follow the Demolisher's shield bash. The mitigation debuff this ability carries is quite decent (13%+), and it can be used to "extend" a stun on a target. This is a fairly good ability, though it will have to be comboed well in order to use effectively.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None.(Completely untested)Tier 3: Offensive BonusName: Seasoned VeteranMechanic: Silent (No-icon) mechanics buffLimitation: Belly Smash (Level 4)Effect (Initial): +2.4 DPSEffect (Further): +2.4 DPSEffect (Level 4): +9.6 DPSEffect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: +19.2 DPSArt: UnknownComments: A simple and effective DPS boost that improves the damage per auto-attack swing. A fair boost to damage with no obvious drawbacks.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None.(Completely untested)Tier 4: Defensive BonusName: UnshakeableMechanic: Silent (No-icon) stat buffLimitation: Seasoned Veteran (Level 4)Effect (Initial): +Mitigation, varies with level.Effect (Further): +Mitigation, varies with level.Effect (Level 4): +Mitigation, varies with level.Effect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: +Mitigation, varies with level.Art: UnknownComments: A flat bonus to mitigation, continuing the reliable streak going with the Demolisher. This ability will increase your absorb passively, making you a better all around tank.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None.(Completely Untested)Tier 5: UltimateName: Stance MasteryMechanic: Passive combat-Art ModifierLimitation: Unshakeable (Level 4)Effect (Initial): Removes all penalties associated with stances.Art: Unknown.Comments: Removes the -Piercing/Slashing/Crushing tied to Defensive stance, and the -Defense tied to Offensive stance. This allows the Demolisher to perform better in either stance, improving accuracy and thus damage in Defensive stance, or improving evasion and tanking ability in Offensive stance. Very simple and straightforward ability.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None.================================================== ======Intelligence Line: SlayerThe Intelligence line carries the title Slayer, conjuring to mind the image of a Warrior accustomed to the killing of many. Slayers are experts in quickly dispatching opponents, sacrificing power for efficiency. Masters of their swift swords, Slayers are the bane of casters, their dance of blades and flashing steel distracting and disabling their spellcasting, while at the same time frustrating even Veteran fighters, as the dancing blade of the Slayer intercepts their every attack. One casual observer noted of a duelling Slayer, "Everyone thought he was fighting with two swords the entire time, it wasn't until he stopped and actually drew the second did we lose count."Comments: The Slayer line begins on an odd premise, that it is the Intelligence line for a class that has absolutely no use for Intelligence besides boosting procs, an often insignificant source of damage. The Slayer line also offers haste in many of its options, which is the easiest mechanic multiplier to improve through items such as the flowing black silk sash, and is much easier to reach cap of in a group as opposed to DPS or Crit. The Slayer is also more prone to be riposted, but also more likely to interrupt their enemies. Finally, Slayers have a balanced tree in that the haste effects auto-attack, while the ultimate ability allows better chaining of abilities (all abilities, offensive and defensive,) improving DPS and versatility.(Level 4 Tested)Tier 1: Statistic BonusName: Slayer's IntelligenceMechanic: Silent (No-icon) stat buffLimitation: Bind Wound (Level 1)Effect (Initial): +8.0 INTEffect (Further): +8.0 INTEffect (Level 4): +32.0 INTEffect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: +64.0 INTArt: None or UnknownComments: The opener for the Slayer line grants Intelligence. Intelligence only improves the damage of magical damage procs for Warriors, such as glimmering strike, or reactive armor damage procs. As this is arguably the worst stat for Warriors, it is an unattractive option.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None(Level 4 Tested)Tier 2: Limited Combat ArtName: Acceleration StrikeMechanic: Self-BuffLimitation: Sword or Great Sword equipped in primary. Slayer's Intelligence (Rank 4)Effect (Initial): Places a buff called Acceleration Strike on the caster. When the caster uses a combat art, they will gain an acceleration counter. For each acceleration counter on the Slayer, the Slayer gains an effect called Acceleration, which lasts for 60 seconds. The Slayer may have up to three acceleration counters. Each acceleration counter increases haste by 22.Effect (Further): Each acceleration counter increases haste. (2, 1, 1, 4 at 5) (NON-LINEAR)Effect (Level 4): Each acceleration counter increases haste by 26.Effect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: Each acceleration counter increases haste by ??%.Art: Perform the animation for entering offensive stance, while surrounding with a green aura.Comments: After using this ability you will receive a blue icon buff called Acceleration Strike with "3 uses remaining." As you use combat arts these uses will decrease, when the "uses" are consumed it will be replaced with a yellow icon buff that will grant the appropriate haste. If you are a sword user you may want to consider dropping just 5 points in INT to reach level one of this ability, as 5 points for 22% haste is a fairly good deal.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None.(Level 1 Tested)Tier 3: Offensive BonusName: Slayer's SpeedMechanic: Silent (No-icon) mechanics buffLimitation: Acceleration Strike (Level 4)Effect (Initial): +2.2 Haste.Effect (Further): +2.2 Haste.Effect (Level 4): +8.8 Haste.Effect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: +17.6 Haste.Art: Red pyramid with runes appears overhead when investing points into this skill.Comments: Stacks with items like the FBSS. This is just plain old haste. Raising haste will result in improving proc rates, but risking a higher riposte rate as well.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: DPS comparison.(Completely untested)Tier 4: Defensive BonusName: ParryMechanic: Silent (No-icon) mechanics buffLimitation: "Double Attack" (Level 4)Effect (Initial): +Parry skill, varies with level.Effect (Further): +Parry skill, varies with level.Effect (Level 4): +Parry skill, varies with level.Effect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: +Parry skill, varies with level.Art: Unknown.Comments: A parry bonus. As parry is the first skill checked in defensive rolls (I believe so anyway) it has the largest direct impact to evasion of all evasion modifiers. This is a solid defensive option, and often parry skill is the most difficult defensive modifier to boost. It is unknown whether or not improved parry also improves riposte rate.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None.(Completely untested)Tier 5: UltimateName: Relentless AssaultMechanic: Passive mechanics buffLimitation: Parry (Level 4)Effect (Initial): Reduces recast timers by 6.0%. Reduces recovery timers by 30.0%.Art: Unknown.Comments: With the amount of haste available in this line it should be obvious that the Slayer is going to lose attack oppurtunities while performing combat arts, or recovering from them. This ability helps mitigate that loss, while also allowing the Slayer to string together more arts, and perform them even faster. This works out to abilities recovering .6 seconds faster over a 10 second period, or 3.6 seconds faster over a minute. If the Slayer uses 30 combat arts in the minute, they will spend 4.5 seconds more "recovered" and capable of taking a new action. Depending on your weapon and haste that 4.5 seconds could mean quite a few auto-attacks being recovered, while the faster recast gives a slight advantage in high pressure situations.Relevant Calculations/Analysis: None.================================================== ======AppendicesAppendix One:The DPS ComparisonForeword: This appendix is designed to introduce the reader to the ways in which the Offensive Bonus options will affect their character. The math performed here is fairly simple, and is done with models based on ratios, giving it direct translation to actual mechanics, while not being illegible.IMPORTANT POST-EOF NOTE: In the post EOF world haste and dps are given in ratings as opposed to percentages. Mousing over them reveals their real percent modifier. The math below works with this real percentage in mind.There are generally speaking two ways for a Warrior to generate DPS. They are auto-attack(melee and ranged) and combat arts. Both of these categories are specifically effected by certain mechanics multipliers. They are as follows:Auto-Attack(melee and ranged): +DPS% +Haste% +Critical% +DoubleAttack%Combat Arts: +Critical%DPS, Haste, and Double-Attack do not have any effect on your combat art damage. Period. That may lead you to believe that raising your critical chance is the best way to improve DPS, but let's take these options one by one, and compare them.DPS (Damage Per Second): +DPS modifiers exist in many places, most often in buffs such as Berserk, the Inquisitor Aura line, or the Bruiser group +DPS line. This modifier multiplies the damage you do with every hit by the total % modifier you have. Simply put, you hit harder with every attack. Since +DPS is independent of time, you do not improve your chances for causing any procs, risking any ripostes, or improving interrupt chance. This is a completely safe and neutral option for improving your damage. +DPS caps at 125% bonus or 200 rating, meaning you strike for double damage and some change with every attack. DPS is a simple multiplier in calculations, and as such will appear in many subsequent calculations solely as *DPS.Haste (Attack Speed): Haste modifiers, like DPS modifiers, are common. Haste is the most common modifier, and involves some tradeoffs. As haste is not independent of time, but instead actively acting on it it does increase the number of chances for procs to occur, increases risk of riposte, increase interrupt chance, etc. Haste also improves the efficiency of your strikes, allowing you to kill slightly faster by not overkilling your opponents as often. Haste, like DPS, caps at 125% or 200 rating. A 3.0 speed weapon would attack at 1.5 speed with 100% haste for example. 100% Haste does not reduce your attack speed by 100%. In calculations the best way to express haste is as a multiplier of (WeaponSpeed/(1+Haste%)) I.E. at 100% haste you would have WeaponSpeed/2. For the case of 125% (200 rating) haste you can divide weapon speed by 2.25, such as 2/2.25 giving you an attack speed of .8888s per swing.Double-Attack: Double-attack is relatively new to the game, and currently has very few modifiers. Double-attacks can only trigger on auto-attacks, this is currently limited to melee attacks. Double-attacks are not like normalized procs, and as such are independent of weapon speed. Because of this Double-Attack can be considered much like "another" Haste or DPS, in that it will ultimately play the same role on your DPS, improving your auto-attack dps evenly. The trade-offs for using double-attack are increased riposte risk for increased interrupt rate. The double-attack cap is unknown, but I believe it is likely to be 100%.Critical (Bonus damage): Critical damage works in a very complicated way, please reference this post that occurs later in this thread for a much more in depth analysis of critical damage: <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=22672#M22672">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=22672#M22672</a>How can you maximize your DPS to fit your playstyle?There are multiple ways to approach this problem, but we will put modifiers like stats (STR) aside in order to simply compare what is possible within the Achievement system.First you must consider where your damage comes from. Some players rely on auto-attack for a good amount of damage, while other players continuously use techniques to quickly wipe out their opponents. Let's consider a hypothetical situation in which your character does 25% of their DPS through auto-attack, and 75% through the usage of combat arts.The achievement lines offer roughly +20% haste, +20% DPS, +76% double attack, and +20% critical rate.Let's say you do 25 "units" of damage with auto-attack and 75 with combat arts. If you improved this amount by 20% through taking 20% dps, or 20% haste, you would now be doing 30 units of damage with auto-attack, improving your overall damage from 25 + 75 = 100 to 30 + 75 = 105. A 5% boost in damage.If you took 76% double-attack, you'd improve your 25 units by 76%, turning 25 into 44, or gaining 19 units, bringing your overall DPS from 100 units to 119, or almost a 20% bonus to overall damage.But how can that be right? That's not balanced at all. Well, keep in mind a few things. First that the double-attack achievement requires a buckler, and second that if a buckler is equipped 2h or DW weapon set can't be used.How do these options compare differently in this special case?1h weapons are designed to have 75% of the damage rating of DW or 2h weapons, or in other words, 2h/DW do 33% more damage than 1h.So going back:20% haste or DPS with a 1h: 25*1.2 = 3020% haste or DPS with a 2h/dw: 25*1.2*1.33 = 4076% double attack with 1h: 25*1.76 = 44It seems that double-attack with a 1h is capable of competing with 2h/dw auto-attack with +haste or DPS. This established STA's double-attack as the most powerful auto-attack modifier, but also the one with the most limits (1h+buckler only) this is one of the tradeoffs for the high DPS.How about crits? We're getting into complex territory, I again reference the post later in this thread at: <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=22672#M22672">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=22672#M22672</a>For those only interested in knowing the relative changes, due to the way critical hits work you could expect to see your 100 damage units improved to about 113 through 24% critical hit rate. These damage units would come from both auto-attack and critical hits.Math aside, how can I maximize my Damage?That depends on the kind of player you are. If you favor auto-attacks over critical hits then consider the auto-attack modifiers available to you. If you love combat arts, and enjoy big numbers, or you use nonstandard weaponry (look in crit analysis) you may benefit most from boosting your critical chance.If you are using a 1h and shield, you can maximize your DPS by going STA line. If you are using a 2h or DW, you can maximize your DPS by going into haste and DPS (see note below.) If you are relying on arts, focus on critical hits. Remember, balanced by being different but roughly equal.Sidenote: The "quad damage and octo damage" effect.Because combat arts have only one modifier effecting them, crit chance, which maximizes at 100% (or 30% bonus) combat arts have a maximum potential of 1.3x. On the flipside, auto-attack has DPS, Haste, and Double-Attack all contributing to it, each of which doubles damage at 100%. If you were able to maximize all 3 modifiers, you would be doing 8x unmodified auto-attack DPS (1 unit *2(Double DPS) *2(Twice as many hits from haste) *2(Double-attack each hit)) = 8. With EOF in existence you can now reach even higher levels of DPS as the multipliers max out at 125% for DPS and Haste.Also, since these modifiers act serially, and multiply off each other, it is much easier to build a large number. For comparison, 20% DPS or haste may only generate 5 additional units of damage off a starting 25 base: (25*1.2 = 30) however 20% DPS -and- Haste grants a larger effect (25*1.2*1.2 = 36) a six unit bonus instead of only another 5. In order to maximize your auto-attack you will want to keep all of the modifiers as high as possible and as even to each other as possible. If at 50% DPS and 10% haste, and offered 20% haste or DPS, you'd gain more from haste for example.Sidenote #2: Cyclone.Dragoon's Cyclone works off of auto-attack damage, and is NOW tested with double-attack. Only the first attack of double attacks may cause Cyclone hits.================================================== ======Appendix Two:The Shield Fiasco (Or the STA line and Bucklers)Discussion on shield mechanics has flared up multiple times, with many people stating that bucklers offer 20% less block than towers, that bucklers are unmanly, among many other things. There have been a lot of accusations, normative statements, and bizarre rumors regarding the comparison between shields.How do shields actually work?Shields seem to work very similar to the migitation formula to determine the amount of block chance. The mitigation formula appears to divide your mitigation value by your level to determine your mitigation percent. (2500 mitigation at 50 = 2500/50 = 50% mitigation) The shield formula seems to be the same in that Protection/Level = Block chance. Block values are assigned almost exclusively based on (Level of item * Tier(quality) * Type)For Bucklers, the Type would be "1" for tower/kite the Type would be "3." In other words, a buckler of equal tier, and level would have exactly 1/3rd the block of a kite/tower. You can test this yourself by comparising the two Shiny Brass Shields.A legendary kite/tower shield of your level offers roughly 15% chance to block, a legendary buckler of the same offers 5%. Fabled kite/tower offers 18% to a buckler's 6%.At max rank, Gladiator's Revenge (STA Line's Defensive Bonus Tier 4 Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> gives 4.5% additional block chance, and 4.5% frontal riposte, resulting in a net 9% bonus to frontal avoidance, with an additiponal 4.5% avoidance to the sides.If using a max-level legendary shield set to compare, a max Gladiator's Revenge Warrior with a buckler would end up having 5% block + 4.5% block + 4.5% riposte = 14% total frontal avoidance, whereas a plain no achievement using warrior would have 15%. For fableds the numbers would be 15% vs 18%. If you keep in mind earlier discussion showed that Defensive options resulted in a net 4-6% boost to Defense, meaning that a Warrior who specs in another line other than STA to the full defensive option is going to be 5-9% more defensively potent than a full STA line to defensive bonus warrior. Those are the differences.Also keep in mind that in the previous appendix it was shown that STA had the largest offensive bonus option of any line. This penalty to defense is likely paid for that reason.Of important note also is that shields offer uncontested avoidance, this means that it is completely reliable, even against raid mobs. For a dedicated raid tank, giving up a tower shield may be very difficult to do.================================================== ======Final Comments/Summary/Misc:First I'd like to state that I am really pleased with the Dev's work on the Warrior achievements. I am a powergamer by nature, and in many games that present choices like this there are very clear paths to maximize your abilities, while other paths are instead [Removed for Content] by comparison. However this achievement system has options which are often compelling for many reasons, and should your playstyle simply fit it better, it -is- better for you to take that path.Second, before I go into my opinions on things, maybe I should mention who I am, and what I value. I play a berserker on Venekor (RP-PVP) named Kemt, where I tank for a small guild that I run of my RL friends. Because we aren't always running at full groups, and because I am always under danger of being attacked by enemies, it is important for me to have a strong defense and offense. We're a very AOE heavy group, and as such it is also important for me to be capable of generating AOE damage and threat, while defending myself from AOE attacks. That's my playstyle, typically running 6 man dungeons, and doing dealing with PVP.Comments on each path:STR: This path is fairly solid, though I must admit I am a bit squeamish about relying on random numbers, and having to time Executioner's Wrath very carefully to maximally use it during an AOE. However this line can be very satisfying, as you see the big bold numbers over your enemy's head. I believe that the ultimate for this line needs some serious work, and I also believe that the crit chance bonus from Weapon Expertise could use a little bit of uptweaking to make it a better option in comparison to auto-attack.AGI: I feel this is a fairly great path. It is very potent in AOE situations and shouldn't be overlooked. The defensive bonuses are very potent in the post EOF world as it is no longer as easy to reach defensive skill cap.STA: This line draws amazing contention. I feel this is the best line we have, allowing us to do DPS like we have a 2h or DW out, while still maintaning 75% or more of our block chance with a shield. However this is NOT a line for people who are specifically building for JUST DPS or JUST tanking, as it is a powerful compromise. For someone like me, this line is an amazing gift, allowing me to tank well (not maximally) while still chipping in the DPS I need. I am not a fan of the ultimate in this line, it needs to be reworked -a lot- to be worth considering for points for dungeon type players.WIS: This is the sleeper line, it's incredibly simple and straightforward, and I see it drawing a lot of players solely because it is completely safe and harmless. There are good options here that are capable of expanding your character without too much thought.INT: Originally I thought this line was bug-ridden and had problems. That was due to a slight misunderstanding of mechanic. Unfortunately my misunderstanding also overestimated the benefits of the line. The line is fairly straightforward, however it is also fairly mediocre. The most powerful offering in the line is the ability to go 5 points into it and get 22% haste for a sword user. The ultimate for this line is almost insultingly bad for eight points.--- If you found this FAQ useful please let me know, and request a sticky. ------ Please contribute any information that is not on this FAQ, especially higher levels of abilities that are untested. ---Message Edited by Dimglow on 01-19-2007 12:20 PM

infernus006

03-22-2006, 11:01 PM

Nice post. One comment I have though is about the last ability in the INT line. I'm not going with anything in the INT line myself, I am going mostly AGI and WIS. But I know a lot of people are really looking foward to the last ability in the INT line to reduce their cast and recast timers, so I was curious as to why you have such a distaste for it.<div></div>

Mjollnyr

03-22-2006, 11:13 PM

Firstly: Great post.Things of note: Dragoon reflexs does not allow you to do anything during the down time, including using items or auto-attacking. Although i never realised it was because the recovery timer was 12s, i had thought it was just a 12s stifle duration or something similiar. This sort of makes sense now.<blockquote><hr>infernus006 wrote:Nice post. One comment I have though is about the last ability in the INT line. I'm not going with anything in the INT line myself, I am going mostly AGI and WIS. But I know a lot of people are really looking foward to the last ability in the INT line to reduce their cast and recast timers, so I was curious as to why you have such a distaste for it.<div></div><hr></blockquote>While i wont say one thing or another about the final ability of the int line. From a pure min-max/balance perspective, this ability is lacking. Off our 1 minute recast attacks it shaves 3.6 seconds off. 3 minute recast buffs are usable 10s faster. 30% of the 0.5 recovery time typically associated with all CA's is very minimal, and will hardly ever be noticed.While i wouldn't argue someone away from it, if they feel it would be an advantage to them. I cant see it being a 8 point ability for what bonuses you do get.<div></div>

Dimgl

03-22-2006, 11:23 PM

<div></div>Thanks for the early feedback guys.Like Mjollnyr said the amount of time being shaved off of abilities is somewhat small.My distaste with the line comes from the feeling that with all of the haste that the line offers it really paints itself into a corner. The primary concern of someone with that much haste is to waste as few attacks as possible. If at 100% haste, and using a longsword (1.7 speed normally .85% with 100% haste) you can "lose" ~3 attacks doing an attack like Whirl (2 second cast 0.5 second recovery) because for 2.5 seconds, you couldn't auto-attack. Reducing recovery some helps this problem, however it seems to me to be insignificant when compared to other abilities. You could reduce your recovery time by 30%, and save 30% of attacks lost by specific abilities in specific circumstances, or just grab some more +DPS in another line that you may also go up, and you'll be ahead.The decrease in the cooldowns of abilities I am skeptical of. 3.6 seconds (per minute) may be a big deal in incredibly long fights, but if you are dungeon crawling with a party, they're likely willing to wait that 3.6 extra seconds every minute if the ability really means that much. The casters would probably like the power anyway. And if it isn't worth the wait, then how can you justify it being worth the 8 points? Especially if those 8 points end the battle 3.6 seconds faster, or with 3.6 seconds less downtime.So being at the very bottom of a problematic line with inherent issues and apparent bugginess I am distrusting of it being justifiable to go all the way down the tree for an ability of questionable use.Now if the ultimate instead allowed you to auto-attack while performing other abilities it would be a crowning achievement for this line, and something very fitting. Even if it did nothing else, that'd be huge for a line this haste-driven.That's my view on it anyway.

Bruzza

03-23-2006, 01:13 AM

<div></div>Amazing post! You've given me a lot of information to digest and consider! Thanks for all the effort!

infernus006

03-23-2006, 02:53 AM

Ok I see what you are saying and that does make sense.I still feel that the final ability in the WIS line is the only one that's worth getting for 8 points. At least it's something that will provide a constant benefit to me no matter what situation I'm in since it turns both of my stances in to purly beneficial buffs and eliminates the desire to forgo having any stance on in some cases due to the penalties they normally come with as is the case without this ability.I believe that the final ability in the AGI line is actually the most worthless one out of the whole bunch though. It sounds really uber at first glace but I think the description for it is kind of misleading. If you examine the ability it says that you will parry all incoming attacks from combat arts and that you cannot use any other abilities while it's in effect. Some people seem to think that it will grant them 12 seconds of total invulnerability which isn't really true since it doesn't prevent any magic damage. And I'm not even sure that it will prevent any melee attacks from behind since it says parry and parry only works from the front as far as I know. Some people also seem to think that they will still be able to cast their AOE taunt with it on since it can still be used while stunned or stifled. But as far as I can tell that is not the case either per the description of this ability. And the fact that it only lasts for 12 seconds and can only be reused once very 10 mintues makes it even less desirable to me.I have been in situations where the final ability in the STR line would've been nice to have but I am not willing to waste my points on the other crit chance abilities to get it, which I do feel are a waste, especially since one of them is a passive ability that requires an axe to be equipped at all times before it will do anything. Plus I don't feel that I really find myself in those kind of situations often enough to warrent spending 8 points to get an ability that only works when I am low on health.The final ability in the STA line really appeals to me a lot and I would really like to have it but I am not willing to go through the buckler requirements in order to get it. But I like the idea of spending less power and getting extra health back at the same time, all the time, no matter what. Same deal with the final ability in the INT line. I would really like to have the shorter cast and recast timers on all my CA's even if it's only a marginal benefit, since it's a passive ability, but I am not willing to waste the points on getting the extra INT and haste that I don't really need as well as an ability that requires me to use a sword before I can reach it.At least by taking the WIS and AGI lines I am getting a lot of different things that will be of some benefit to me in most of the situations I tend to find myself in and not just once in a blue moon. And since I'm not getting the final ability in the AGI line I can use those extra 8 points elsewhere as I see fit. I currently have 5 points in STA for the extra health and I might just leave them there. Some people think it would be better to put those extra points into Unshakable to get more mitigation and although I do want to have more mitigation, extra health is something that helps to keep you alive longer no matter what kind of damage you are taking whereas mitigation only works against physical melee attacks. So it's kind of a tossup there but I am leaving the points I already spent in STA alone for now and putting the rest into WIS and AGI. I already have a nice legendary t7 mace to use the Belly Smash ability that comes with the WIS line and an imbued xegonite spear for the Dragoon Spin ability from the AGI line and I don't have much of a problem switching the weapons out as needed in order to use both of the abilities in the same fight. So my current intended build is this:AGI: 4/4/4/8STA: 5WIS: 4/4/4/4/8<div></div>

Mjollnyr

03-23-2006, 04:07 AM

^^ I cant really argue one way or another. We all tank alittle differently, different reasons, and in different roles. So i cant nessecarily justify one build over another. Since they all seem to have viable purposes. Some maybe more to your style then others.<blockquote><hr>Dimglow wrote:<div></div>My distaste with the line comes from the feeling that with all of the haste that the line offers it really paints itself into acorner.......That's my view on it anyway.<hr></blockquote>While i agree with you. For the sake of a FAQ, it might be best to try to remain neutral. For many reasons others may feel that (insert stat line here) is viable for them. Putting down a certain build because it doesn't suit you, maybe not be the most informative.I honestly cant say that i'm aware of any specific bugginess to the line. I personally intended to go down the INT line soley for the parry.Again, great faq. Listed a few things i didn't notice.<div></div>

Dimgl

03-23-2006, 04:30 AM

<div>I don't think I was overly negative on the ability in the INT section. I was harsh on it in my personal opinions however. I listed the strength of the ability (reduce lost attacks, allow better stringing) but also listed the drawback of having a very high cost (8 points) just like how I mentioned the drawback of the AGI line being more severe than it may appear to be (due to the 12 second recovery time, not a 12 second stifle etc.) The oppurtunity cost of those 8 points in another line is really what hurts the ability most, not that it is a bad ability in and of itself.</div><div> </div><div>I will change it when I make my first wave of revisions though, because I don't want to color anyone's opinions of abilities, and if I came off as overly harsh then I am influencing people's decisions in a way that was unintended. If there are any overly positive or overly negative overtones with any lines, do let me know, I don't mean to have overhyped STA or AGI, or put down INT (my favorites and my least favorite respectably.)</div><div> </div><div>Keep the feedback coming guys. :smileyhappy:</div>

aislynn00

03-23-2006, 09:02 PM

<div></div>Quite simply the best, most factual guide I have seen in a long time on these boards.One significant factor does, however, seem to be missing from your analysis: Accuracy. The more attacks you miss, the less all other factors matter, and vice versa. It bears mentioning that there is currently only one single AA ability which affects accuracy; namely, the master ability of the wisdom line. The higher the con of the mobs you are fighting, the more you will be missing, and thus, the more you might potentially benefit from aforementioned AA ability.

Rorrak

03-24-2006, 03:11 AM

<div></div>Great post - just a clarificationAcceleration Strike is a buff placed on you that doesn't increase your haste at all at first. As you use CAs it will say "no targets in range" and not change. Upon the third CA you do the buff changes from a blue background to a yellow background and applies that amount of haste to you once. If you recast it after it's 30 second recast and do 3 CAs before the first one expires it simply replaces the first one (with a fresh 60 second duration) rather than stacking the haste. So in my extensive experience with it I've never gotten more than the stated haste once (30% haste at rank 5, 33% at rank 6, not sure about after that). It'd be a lot nicer if you could get it 2 or 3 times obviously - maybe that was intended originally and it's bugged now with that whole "no targets in range" error. - Rorrak

firewolf

03-24-2006, 12:40 PM

Great information. I have been wondering if Dragoon Cyclone (AGI line) and Gladiator Finesse(STA) can stacks. Looking at the combat arts, in theory they should be able to proc off each other since the extra attacks on both skills are melee attacks. If they stacks, in theory the 4 extra attacks on Dragoon Cyclone has 75% chance of tiggering off double attack on each of them for up to 8 attacks. Or each of the double attack firing off a dragoon cyclone for up to 8 attacks. Wish I've enough AA to test them out...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

Dimgl

03-24-2006, 08:21 PM

<div></div><div>Updated for LU21. (Changed "Double Attack" in the INT line to Slayer's Speed, rewrote the effects and mechanics section for Buckler Reversal.)</div><div> </div><div>Apparently there is a new bug in this LU, in that it seems Buckler Reversal, like Lunge Reversal which was just fixed, may be breaking stealth (may or may not have been fixed in the hotfix that fixed lunge reversal) and that Buckler Reversal procs more than 1 time every 30 seconds, I had it proc 8 times in a 27 second battle yesterday.</div><div> </div><div>Rorrak: That's really odd that you had the ability work like that for you. In my testing with Acceleration strike I was able to get each combat art to generate the haste bonus at first, but as I continued testing it it became spottier and spottier. In my initial runs however I was able to reach 81% haste (22*3 +15 from FBSS) by using 3 combat arts. However as I continued testing (and put more ranks into the skill) I started maxing my haste out anywhere from 41/42% (which is what you'd expect from 26*1 (the level 4 bonus) + 15, to random numbers between 70 and 85.</div><div> </div><div>It may be instead that certain ranks of the ability are buggy and perform incorrectly while the higher ranks of it perform as planned/expected? What you're saying makes sense though in regards to me seeing 41/42% a few times and seeming "capped."</div><div> </div><div>If anyone goes down the INT/Slayer line, it would be appreciated if you could test each level as you get it. Or if anyone other than Rorrak is INT, could you offer your experiences?</div>

Yodaya

03-24-2006, 11:47 PM

<div></div><div></div>Superb!. Thank you thank you so much for this. I really appreciate the effort you put into this.Definitely this thread need to be stickyMessage Edited by Yodaya on 03-24-200610:47 AM

Rorrak

03-25-2006, 01:33 AM

<div></div>As of the last LU the "no targets in range" message no longer appears with slayer's speed. I'll test with a few different swords, watch my haste and see what happens, I'm up to rank 6 now, 7 will be 35% haste IIRC.- Rorrak

Bantel

03-25-2006, 04:26 AM

<div>Nice linky from the Guardian boards, it's a handly little calculator for AA's:</div><div><a href="http://www.rising-dawn.com/EQ2/GuardAACalc.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.rising-dawn.com/EQ2/GuardAACalc.aspx</a></div>

Bantel

03-25-2006, 05:22 AM

<div></div>So, couple questions:Executioners Anger: increase hate 1% per lvlWondering how this works? If I just stand there and do nothing, do I get 8% more hate than before I took this?Does that mean my taunt CA's, comabt CA's, etc. generate 8% more hate than previously?Dragoon Avoidance: increase defense 2.9% per lvldefense is 360 degree, right?

Dimgl

03-27-2006, 11:27 PM

<div>Bantel:</div><div>They removed the "feature" where fighters generated threat solely by existing a few updates ago. But to answer your question: I believe that the threat generation by all arts, attacks, taunts, or other actions generate additional threat. I do not know if taking ranks in this skill causes the displayed amount of threat generated by taunts or other abilities to increase, though that is something to look into.</div><div> </div><div>(Anyone with this skill have any info on that?)</div><div> </div><div>As for defense being 360, raising defense skill increases avoidance, which acts equally in all quadrants to my knowledge.</div>

Zerv

03-30-2006, 07:59 AM

<div></div>Man Dim awesome post - this 100% x the number 42 needs to be stickiedBeing the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] number guy (65 bard in eq1 before next expansion) I love this stuffNice to see you on Venekor - might be a freep =) but us berserkers have to stick together even across realms on pvp due to the 1 - 30 pain <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I'm definately building on sta build - I can't even express how much an agro/damage difference it has made with just 5 into sta - not even mentioning the extra stun for pvp from the shield is just down right priceless - sounds pathetic but I don't have alot of AA at 37 - coupled with a gutripper and a decent bucker I'm tearing through stuffI'm tossing up going4 - 4 - 8 - 1 STA4 - 4 - 8 AGI4 - 4 - 8 STRvs.going a complete crit(str)/sta build - since our aoe's are so great anywayI think for the sta build to work out best you stick to one weapon type/buckler and by far for pvp I think the str/agi build based off of buckler + axe will be money - maxed crits on double attack, and have a smart healer who keeps you about 25% health could be just devestating - with the amount of HoT healers on pvp - I'm constantly below the 50% both in pvp and pve - so should be interestingthe wis build is appealing also for the extra stun, but I just don't know - I don't want to spread to thin - I definately have to have double attack in pvp for the double arrow and double attack (with all the moving around a double attack is priceless) - also crit chance might be nice....so many choices thanks for the great read - obviously for pvp thie is COMPLETLY a different environment than pve - I can't even imagine going back to pve now <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>Message Edited by Zervun on 03-29-200607:01 PM

Chog

03-30-2006, 01:01 PM

<div></div>Zervun,For PvP servers, going down the Sta / Wis paths can be usefull. Not only do you get the benefit of those paths, people will mistake you for an Inquisitor since you have a buckler and hammer equiped. No taunt required to get people attacking you first. :smileyvery-happy:

Dimgl

03-30-2006, 07:47 PM

<div></div><div></div>Updated: STA Ultimate "Perseverance" now displays 10% power reduction and 10% power to health as opposed to 0%. (An improvement from 8% to 10% from its last known working incarnation, I believe.)Updated information and comments regarding that ability.Buckler reversal now confirmed to not break stealth abilities while refreshing. (Fixed with Lunge Reversal a few hotfixes ago.)Buckler reversal now confirmed to be proccing more than once every 30 seconds. (Bug?) (Lunge Reversal also seems to do the same.)Still looking for more information and feedback on Acceleration Strike, as the mechanic of the ability isn't understood.Message Edited by Dimglow on 03-30-200609:48 AM

Halc

03-30-2006, 09:25 PM

<div></div><div>NM, better asked in another thread</div>Message Edited by Halcat on 03-30-200608:48 AM

Zerv

03-30-2006, 10:00 PM

I don't have a problem with being mistaken that I'm not a berserker =) I'm an erudite<div></div>

fbi

04-14-2006, 05:23 PM

Excellent guide, well written and very useful.(Consider this a sticky request)<div></div>

aias

04-15-2006, 12:23 AM

Any opinions on how one would spend points for tanking/survivability & aggro generation?

hakedu

04-15-2006, 11:20 AM

question about acceleration strike, seems to me that it works differently than described - it gives you 1 min haste, with a recast timer of 30 secs. so i would say that you can get not more than 2 accelerations at the same time - it seems to me, that the 2nd accceleration overwrites the first one, so that you get just one new acceleration for 1 min i played around with it a bit, and i never was able to get more than one acceleration. maybe im doing something wrong ?

-Aonein-

04-15-2006, 11:34 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> hakedu wrote: question about acceleration strike, seems to me that it works differently than described - it gives you 1 min haste, with a recast timer of 30 secs. so i would say that you can get not more than 2 accelerations at the same time - it seems to me, that the 2nd accceleration overwrites the first one, so that you get just one new acceleration for 1 min i played around with it a bit, and i never was able to get more than one acceleration. maybe im doing something wrong ? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Nope your doing everything right, the real question you should be asking is what exactally is acceleration counter by 1 acually increasing? I started a thread about the INT line being the weakest one for Fighters for several of reasons which can be seen here: <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=achievements&message.id=1730#M1730" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=achievements&message.id=1730#M1730</A>Message Edited by -Aonein- on 04-15-2006 06:34 PM

-Aonein-

04-15-2006, 12:34 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dimglow wrote: ================================================== ====== Appendices Appendix One: The DPS Comparison Foreword: This appendix is designed to introduce the reader to the ways in which the Offensive Bonus options will affect their character. The math performed here is fairly simple, and is done with models based on ratios, giving it direct translation to actual mechanics, while not being illegible. There are generally speaking two ways for a Warrior to generate DPS. They are auto-attack(melee and ranged) and combat arts. Both of these categories are specifically effected by certain mechanics multipliers. They are as follows: Auto-Attack(melee and ranged): +DPS% +Haste% +Critical% +DoubleAttack% Combat Arts: +Critical% DPS, Haste, and Double-Attack do not have any effect on your combat art damage. Period. That may lead you to believe that raising your critical chance is the best way to improve DPS, but let's take these options one by one, and compare them. DPS (Damage Per Second): +DPS modifiers exist in many places, most often in buffs such as Berserk, the Inquisitor Aura line, or the Bruiser group +DPS line. This modifier multiplies the damage you do with every hit by the total % modifier you have. Simply put, you hit harder with every attack. Since +DPS is independent of time, you do not improve your chances for causing any procs, risking any ripostes, or improving interrupt chance. This is a completely safe and neutral option for improving your damage. +DPS caps at 100% bonus, meaning you strike for double damage with every attack. DPS is a simple multiplier in calculations, and as such will appear in many subsequent calculations solely as *DPS. Haste (Attack Speed): Haste modifiers, like DPS modifiers, are common. Haste is the most common modifier, and involves some tradeoffs. As haste is not independent of time, but instead actively acting on it it does increase the number of chances for procs to occur, increases risk of riposte, increase interrupt chance, etc. Haste also improves the efficiency of your strikes, allowing you to kill slightly faster by not overkilling your opponents as often. Haste, like DPS, caps at 100%, at which time your attack speed is -halved.- A 3.0 speed weapon would attack at 1.5 speed. 100% Haste does not reduce your attack speed by 100%. In calculations the best way to express haste is as a multiplier of (WeaponSpeed/(1+Haste%)) I.E. at 100% haste you would have WeaponSpeed/2. Double-Attack: Double-attack is relatively new to the game, and currently has very few modifiers. Double-attacks can only trigger on auto-attacks, this includes melee and ranged attacks. Double-attacks are not like normalized procs, and as such are independent of weapon speed. Because of this Double-Attack can be considered much like "another" Haste or DPS, in that it will ultimately play the same role on your DPS, improving your auto-attack dps evenly. The trade-offs for using double-attack are increased riposte risk for increased interrupt rate. The double-attack cap is unknown, but I believe it is likely to be 100%. Critical (Bonus damage): Critical hits are relatively new to the game. Currently they result in a 30% bonus to damage. Critical hits, unlike other DPS modifiers are capable of acting on Combat Arts, giving them an advantage. However, unlike the other abilities which add completely in "units" (a double-attack is 2 hits, not 1.3 hits) critical hits must be considered carefully, as they only add 30% of the critical chance to your overall DPS. How does that work? If you had one ability that did 100 damage had a 10 second cooldown, you would expect to do 600 damage in a minute. If you had a 50% critical chance, you would now crit 3 of those attacks (on average) which would increase the damage 30% (or 30 points, 3 times.) Now you've done 690 in the minute, meaning despite your 50% critical chance, you've only improved your DPS by 15%. (50% crit chance * 30% damage modifier = .5 * .3 = .15) How can you maximize your DPS to fit your playstyle? There are multiple ways to approach this problem, but we will put modifiers like stats (STR) aside in order to simply compare what is possible within the Achievement system. First you must consider where your damage comes from. Some players rely on auto-attack for a good amount of damage, while other players continuously use techniques to quickly wipe out their opponents. Let's consider a hypothetical situation in which your character does 25% of their DPS through auto-attack, and 75% through the usage of combat arts. The achievement lines offer roughly +20% haste, +20% DPS, +76% double attack, and +20% critical rate. Let's say you do 25 "units" of damage with auto-attack and 75 with combat arts. If you improved this amount by 20% through taking 20% dps, or 20% haste, you would now be doing 30 units of damage with auto-attack, improving your overall damage from 25 + 75 = 100 to 30 + 75 = 105. A 5% boost in damage. If you took 76% double-attack, you'd improve your 25 units by 76%, turning 25 into 44, or gaining 19 units, bringing your overall DPS from 100 units to 119, or almost a 20% bonus to overall damage. But how can that be right? That's not balanced at all. Well, keep in mind a few things. First that the double-attack achievement requires a buckler, and second that if a buckler is equipped 2h or DW weapon set can't be used. How do these options compare differently in this special case? 1h weapons are designed to have 75% of the damage rating of DW or 2h weapons, or in other words, 2h/DW do 33% more damage than 1h. So going back: 20% haste or DPS with a 1h: 25*1.2 = 30 20% haste or DPS with a 2h/dw: 25*1.2*1.33 = 40 76% double attack with 1h: 25*1.76 = 44 It seems that double-attack with a 1h is capable of competing with 2h/dw auto-attack with +haste or DPS. This established STA's double-attack as the most powerful auto-attack modifier, but also the one with the most limits (1h+buckler only) this is one of the tradeoffs for the high DPS. How about crits? Remember that crits are 30% modifiers, so they have to be multiplied through, BUT they also effect combat arts. Before we start, let's figure that out. 20% crit * 30% bonus = .2*.3 = .06, 6% total damage modifier 25 units of auto-attack damage * 1.06 = 26.5 75 units of combat art damage * 1.06 = 79.5 26.5+79.5 = 106 units of damage, or a total of 6% bonus. Remember that +20% haste or DPS resulted in a total of 105 units of damage, or a 5% bonus to damage. Math aside, how can I maximize my Damage? If your damage comes more than 25% from auto-attack, you will benefit more from raising haste/dps/double-attack over raising critical. If your damage comes 75% or more from arts, then raising criticals will have the most effect. If you are using a 1h and shield, you can maximize your DPS by going STA line. If you are using a 2h or DW, you can maximize your DPS by going into haste and DPS (see note below.) If you are relying on arts, focus on critical hits. Remember, balanced by being different but roughly equal. Sidenote: The "quad damage and octo damage" effect. Because combat arts have only one modifier effecting them, crit chance, which maximizes at 100% (or 30% bonus) combat arts have a maximum potential of 1.3x. On the flipside, auto-attack has DPS, Haste, and Double-Attack all contributing to it, each of which doubles damage at 100%. If you were able to maximize all 3 modifiers, you would be doing 8x unmodified auto-attack DPS (1 unit *2(Double DPS) *2(Twice as many hits from haste) *2(Double-attack each hit)) = 8. Also, since these modifiers act serially, and multiply off each other, it is much easier to build a large number. For comparison, 20% DPS or haste may only generate 5 additional units of damage off a starting 25 base: (25*1.2 = 30) however 20% DPS -and- Haste grants a larger effect (25*1.2*1.2 = 36) a six unit bonus instead of only another 5. In order to maximize your auto-attack you will want to keep all of the modifiers as high as possible and as even to each other as possible. If at 50% DPS and 10% haste, and offered 20% haste or DPS, you'd gain more from haste for example. Sidenote #2: Cyclone. Dragoon's Cyclone works off of auto-attack damage, and is untested with double-attack as of yet. If you focus on using auto-attack, then cyclone will offer you a way to get that damage to more targets, further increasing your damage by the linear modifier based on number of targets. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> While your numbers and calculations are soild, the problem begins with what weapons your using. With 1 handers starting to pop up with 80 - 90 dmg ratings and with a 76% at double attack, 20% DPS, 22% Chance to crit, not to mention that DPS mod buffs and passive abilitys ie: Seasoned Veteran and your chance to crit also effecting the damage output of Buckler Reversal, you can just wipe the floor with any other make or model out there when it comes to DPS makes within the Berserker class. Take some of the 80 dmg rating 1 hand weps out there atm that are 1.6 second delays then add to this number 100% haste, the faster you swing, the faster you miss or hit, which ethier way with the STA line doesnt matter, swing or miss, your going to do damage. While most wont even consider rolling a make like this because they just refuse to believe it, the truth is, that STA line is somewhat overpowering atm and i think there is a VERY high possibility it will get nerfed which is one reason i havent stuck with it and rerolled out of it. The other thing id like to comment on about is, this section of your write up can be assumed to be taken form a solo perspective, because once you start making group formations and look at what other classes have to offer the entire sceanrio changes, but this info is great work for a basic out lay on where you can go, like i said, it comes down to group set up, weapon type and like Dimglow also pointed out he has negated STR from any of his calculations which also play a big part in Berserkers DPS. The reason im assuming its from a solo perspective is because its not easy to get 100% Haste solo, im not even sure its possible. Highest i can get mine is 50% solo. 23% item haste with 27% Berserk Proc. Now dont get me wrong for those who have reading comprehension disabilitys, im not bagging out Dimglow here, the work he has put into this post is by far the best i have seen for any class achievement information, hands down the best, but he has offered a basic out lay here, its upto the player to tweak it, wether it be group or weapon set up.Message Edited by -Aonein- on 04-15-2006 07:37 PM

hakedu

04-15-2006, 01:24 PM

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> hakedu wrote: question about acceleration strike, seems to me that it works differently than described - it gives you 1 min haste, with a recast timer of 30 secs. so i would say that you can get not more than 2 accelerations at the same time - it seems to me, that the 2nd accceleration overwrites the first one, so that you get just one new acceleration for 1 min i played around with it a bit, and i never was able to get more than one acceleration. maybe im doing something wrong ? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Nope your doing everything right, the real question you should be asking is what exactally is acceleration counter by 1 acually increasing? I started a thread about the INT line being the weakest one for Fighters for several of reasons which can be seen here: <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=achievements&message.id=1730#M1730" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=achievements&message.id=1730#M1730</A> Message Edited by -Aonein- on 04-15-2006 06:34 PM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> so maybe the acceleration counter is only for chaining the haste. i had no problem to keep the haste constantly up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i dont think the int line is very strong, but i mostly fight with a sword. And getting 22% haste for 5 points is not that bad.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Dimgl

04-15-2006, 04:50 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote: While your numbers and calculations are soild, the problem begins with what weapons your using. With 1 handers starting to pop up with 80 - 90 dmg ratings and with a 76% at double attack, 20% DPS, 22% Chance to crit, not to mention that DPS mod buffs and passive abilitys ie: Seasoned Veteran and your chance to crit also effecting the damage output of Buckler Reversal, you can just wipe the floor with any other make or model out there when it comes to DPS makes within the Berserker class. Take some of the 80 dmg rating 1 hand weps out there atm that are 1.6 second delays then add to this number 100% haste, the faster you swing, the faster you miss or hit, which ethier way with the STA line doesnt matter, swing or miss, your going to do damage. I'm afraid I don't follow what you're trying to say, specifically you state that Seasoned Veteran will affect the damage done by Buckler Reversal. Seasoned Veteran is a DPS% bonus, and Buckler Reversal is a combat art. They have no affect on each other. Buckler Reversal, being a combat art, is effected by Skill Rank, Strength, Crit Chance, and any combat art mod applied (such as bind wound or a triggered Executioner's Fury.) +DPS% has no effect at all on Combat Arts. While most wont even consider rolling a make like this because they just refuse to believe it, the truth is, that STA line is somewhat overpowering atm and i think there is a VERY high possibility it will get nerfed which is one reason i havent stuck with it and rerolled out of it. STA line is built for soloists and generalist group players I believe. The perceived bonuses and perceived penalties (many people hate the buckler) play against each other awkwardly, but hardly to the point of demanding a nerf. Currently it is the most "bang for your buck" out of any achievement line, but it also has the greatest cost in equipment use and oppurtunity cost of point use. The other thing id like to comment on about is, this section of your write up can be assumed to be taken form a solo perspective, because once you start making group formations and look at what other classes have to offer the entire sceanrio changes, but this info is great work for a basic out lay on where you can go, like i said, it comes down to group set up, weapon type and like Dimglow also pointed out he has negated STR from any of his calculations which also play a big part in Berserkers DPS. The reason im assuming its from a solo perspective is because its not easy to get 100% Haste solo, im not even sure its possible. Highest i can get mine is 50% solo. 23% item haste with 27% Berserk Proc. Analyzing strength in these calculations is fairly pointless, as one could assume that it is going to vary little between each build (the only exclusion being if someone uses the Strength/Executioner's Line, in which case they will probably have 16 higher strength, or 1-2% more potent attacks.) The "negation" of strength is instead a simplification, allowing for DPS to be looked at as unit-like, almost like a currency, which allows the generation of valid numbers for all level ranges under comparable gear, like a legendary level 30 2h vs a legendary level 30 1h. Also, saying that the guide is designed for solo: I can see what you are attempting to say, however should anyone have a static group, or a common group, or even a theoeretical group situation they would like to test, I have provided the framework for them to run their own calculations. However, since +haste, +dps, +double-attack, +crit, etc etc are all multipliers (like strength) and it is unlikely that the team you are grouping with is going to suddenly lose the buffs they place on you, we can make the assumption that they are all constant, and thus we retain our simplified formulae. The only exceptions to this rule are cases where in a group situation you break caps on these values. If your group provides you with 100% haste it would be foolish to spec INT for example, I would hope that would be self-explanatory. Now dont get me wrong for those who have reading comprehension disabilitys, im not bagging out Dimglow here, the work he has put into this post is by far the best i have seen for any class achievement information, hands down the best, but he has offered a basic out lay here, its upto the player to tweak it, wether it be group or weapon set up. Thank you. I don't understand your comment about reading disabilities though, perhaps you could explain that better. My goal, like you stated, was for players to use the tools and comparisons I have provided here to tailor the achievement lines to their personal playstyle, the gear available to them, and even flavor. My goal is to provide a fairly neutral (nothing is perfectly neutral), informative, and understandable guide to achievement, and how you can build a warrior you enjoy. Message Edited by -Aonein- on 04-15-200607:37 PM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>

Dimgl

04-15-2006, 05:10 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kosmetas wrote: Any opinions on how one would spend points for tanking/survivability & aggro generation? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Because the Defensive Bonuses are Tier 4 for each line, and it takes 12 points to reach, then 8 to fill a defensive option, you will find yourself choosing two of the five available options. The options are (roughly): +10% hate generation, +4.5% evasion, +4.5% mitigation, +4.5% parry. STA line can not be compared in the case of attempting to build a maximally defensive warrior, as the STA line requires a defensive tradeoff to use, and its Tier 4 Defensive Bonus is oriented towards undoing the loss. While I am not entirely 100% sure of this, I believe I read elsewhere that the order of defensive checks is: Parry -> Block -> Evade -> Other -> Mitigation. Because you are interested in both threat generation and defense, you should ask yourself this question: Am I looking to build an "AOE" tank, or am I looking to build a single target tank? In the case of an AOE tank you would prefer to have AOE damage/threat generation and AOE avoidance (AGI line) whereas in the case of single targets you would be interested in single-target damage/threat generation and avoidance (STR/INT lines.) You can check my FAQ for the benefits and penalties of the different offerings within the line, such as INT risking more ripostes (which is unfavorable for a raid tank.) If you are leaning towards casual grouping (6 man dungeon play etc) then I would suggest considering the agility line, especially if you fight enough AOE content to warrant it, or you are a berserker who enjoys their AOE damage. If you are looking to be a raid tank, then I would suggest looking more towards STR and possibly INT. The DEF bonus from AGI is unlikely to help you as a raid tank, as you will probably be buffed by the raid to cap, thus rendering the bonus useless. STR is most likely suited best to raid-tanking, as it acts as a straight multiplier to threat generation, your main concern in a raid situation. After selecting one of STR, INT or AGI I would say invest points in it at 4 4 4 8 (20 points spent.) Leaving you 29 points, and then... The WIS line is a very strong supplement to any line. And if you are interested in very dedicated tanking of especially high end content you may want to place points in it all the way to Demolish (28 points, placed 4 4 4 8 <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> which will improve your accuracy in D stance and allow you better threat generation by landing more CAs. Warriors are mitigation tanks, so playing to our strength is always good, as this line will improve your mitigation by ~4.5%. Also improving your accuracy and lowering riposte rate is always useful. The final point you have left can be put anywhere that makes you happy. :smileyvery-happy: Hope that helps! I may come back to flesh this out further in the future and add it as another apendix if people find it useful. I was hesitant to comment much on defensive aspects as my tanking experience is limited to solo situations, duo, 6-man groups, and epic x2 encounters. (Little x3 to x4 experience.) So I simply wanted to avoid saying something cardinally wrong to raid tanks. Maybe a berserker who does have a good deal of raid experience could offer me some insight, so I could refine a defensive appendix?

aias

04-15-2006, 10:13 PM

Thanks Dim! I have gone down the WIS path and loaded up on the Mit portion. I have been waffling between AGI & STR. I appreciate your comments and your very helpful posts. kudos. :robothappy:

-Aonein-

04-16-2006, 11:50 AM

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dimglow wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote: While your numbers and calculations are soild, the problem begins with what weapons your using. With 1 handers starting to pop up with 80 - 90 dmg ratings and with a 76% at double attack, 20% DPS, 22% Chance to crit, not to mention that DPS mod buffs and passive abilitys ie: Seasoned Veteran and your chance to crit also effecting the damage output of Buckler Reversal, you can just wipe the floor with any other make or model out there when it comes to DPS makes within the Berserker class. Take some of the 80 dmg rating 1 hand weps out there atm that are 1.6 second delays then add to this number 100% haste, the faster you swing, the faster you miss or hit, which ethier way with the STA line doesnt matter, swing or miss, your going to do damage. I'm afraid I don't follow what you're trying to say, specifically you state that Seasoned Veteran will affect the damage done by Buckler Reversal. Seasoned Veteran is a DPS% bonus, and Buckler Reversal is a combat art. They have no affect on each other. Buckler Reversal, being a combat art, is effected by Skill Rank, Strength, Crit Chance, and any combat art mod applied (such as bind wound or a triggered Executioner's Fury.) +DPS% has no effect at all on Combat Arts.</BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> This is where alot people get confused. DPS mod buffs or passive abilitys will increase damage out put of anything that is classed as Melee damage, Buckler Reversal is classed as Melee damage, therefore DPS mod buffs or passive abilitys will affect it. STR only adjusts its BASE damage output, nothing else. So as you increase STR, your CA's do more base damage and as you increase DPS mod buffs or passive abilitys you do more damage over any given amount of time, it effects everything, its not like Haste where it only effects attack speed, DPS mod buffs and passive abilitys do not only effect auto attack damage. <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dimglow wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote: While most wont even consider rolling a make like this because they just refuse to believe it, the truth is, that STA line is somewhat overpowering atm and i think there is a VERY high possibility it will get nerfed which is one reason i havent stuck with it and rerolled out of it. STA line is built for soloists and generalist group players I believe. The perceived bonuses and perceived penalties (many people hate the buckler) play against each other awkwardly, but hardly to the point of demanding a nerf. Currently it is the most "bang for your buck" out of any achievement line, but it also has the greatest cost in equipment use and oppurtunity cost of point use.</BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Im glad you have faith in SoE, because i lost my faith a long time ago. Just take a look at the top guilds in the game, there MT's have rolled down the STA line and are putting it to full use in raids with nice Bucklers that have 900+ shield factor. You can and will get more Block percentage with this set up then a Tower Shield, not to mention the increase in DPS you get along with it. When i eventually get one of these 80 - 90 dmg rating 1 handers, ill post some numbers for you. <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dimglow wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote: The other thing id like to comment on about is, this section of your write up can be assumed to be taken form a solo perspective, because once you start making group formations and look at what other classes have to offer the entire sceanrio changes, but this info is great work for a basic out lay on where you can go, like i said, it comes down to group set up, weapon type and like Dimglow also pointed out he has negated STR from any of his calculations which also play a big part in Berserkers DPS. The reason im assuming its from a solo perspective is because its not easy to get 100% Haste solo, im not even sure its possible. Highest i can get mine is 50% solo. 23% item haste with 27% Berserk Proc. Analyzing strength in these calculations is fairly pointless, as one could assume that it is going to vary little between each build (the only exclusion being if someone uses the Strength/Executioner's Line, in which case they will probably have 16 higher strength, or 1-2% more potent attacks.) The "negation" of strength is instead a simplification, allowing for DPS to be looked at as unit-like, almost like a currency, which allows the generation of valid numbers for all level ranges under comparable gear, like a legendary level 30 2h vs a legendary level 30 1h. Also, saying that the guide is designed for solo: I can see what you are attempting to say, however should anyone have a static group, or a common group, or even a theoeretical group situation they would like to test, I have provided the framework for them to run their own calculations. However, since +haste, +dps, +double-attack, +crit, etc etc are all multipliers (like strength) and it is unlikely that the team you are grouping with is going to suddenly lose the buffs they place on you, we can make the assumption that they are all constant, and thus we retain our simplified formulae. The only exceptions to this rule are cases where in a group situation you break caps on these values. If your group provides you with 100% haste it would be foolish to spec INT for example, I would hope that would be self-explanatory.</BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> STR does make a very noticeable difference to our DPS, especially when you take a Berserker with 300 STR and compair him to a Berserker with 500 STR, auto attack damage alone is noticeable. My point here was you negated STR from the calaculations to make it less confusing, but at the same time im pointing out that you cant underestimate STR ethier. <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dimglow wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote: Now dont get me wrong for those who have reading comprehension disabilitys, im not bagging out Dimglow here, the work he has put into this post is by far the best i have seen for any class achievement information, hands down the best, but he has offered a basic out lay here, its upto the player to tweak it, wether it be group or weapon set up. Thank you. I don't understand your comment about reading disabilities though, perhaps you could explain that better. My goal, like you stated, was for players to use the tools and comparisons I have provided here to tailor the achievement lines to their personal playstyle, the gear available to them, and even flavor. My goal is to provide a fairly neutral (nothing is perfectly neutral), informative, and understandable guide to achievement, and how you can build a warrior you enjoy. Message Edited by -Aonein- on 04-15-200607:37 PM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah thats not aimed at you, thats aimed at the people who attempt to read between the lines and seem to be some miracle mind readers thinking they know what your aiming at. Hope that makes more sense. :smileyhappy: </DIV>

Dimgl

04-16-2006, 08:33 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote: This is where alot people get confused. DPS mod buffs or passive abilitys will increase damage out put of anything that is classed as Melee damage, Buckler Reversal is classed as Melee damage, therefore DPS mod buffs or passive abilitys will affect it. STR only adjusts its BASE damage output, nothing else. So as you increase STR, your CA's do more base damage and as you increase DPS mod buffs or passive abilitys you do more damage over any given amount of time, it effects everything, its not like Haste where it only effects attack speed, DPS mod buffs and passive abilitys do not only effect auto attack damage. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> First off, you're being very vague in saying "DPS mod buffs and passive abilities." I am not sure what passive abilities you're discussing, however in my testing I have not found DPS mods to change combat art damage at all. So I've attempted to recreate a situation in which what you're saying is true, here is my data. As a sidenote I tested Breach because it does "melee damage" and because it has a 10 second cooldown, making it easy to gather more data. I've put Buckler Reversal's numbers to the side though, for comparison's sake. 316 STR, level 63 berserker. Breach Adept III - 142-428 melee damage, Buckler Reversal Adept IV - 353-589 melee damage Gain Berserk: 21% DPS/Haste Breach Adept III - 142-428 melee damage, Buckler Reversal Adept IV - 353-589 melee damage. I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt, and think that maybe there is a display bug involved in what you said. By your logic my Breach should hit for 142*1.21 = 171.82 to 428*1.21 = 517.88, if a 21% DPS mod works on "melee damage" combat arts. In my testing I landed hits for 146, 157, 163, etc etc. The highest I landed a hit for was 426, over dozens of uses of Breach. I berserked by killing a mob each time (with auto-attack,) then walked up and breached another. I landed hits below the range you expected, and could not land a hit in the expected high end, higher than 426 in my case, despite 426-518 damage being expected to occur at least 26.5% of the time (518-171 = 347 possible values of damage, 518-426 = 92. 92 of 347 possible values = 26.5%.) However my highest hit was only 2 away from the maximum possible without any modification, and my low hits were also within acceptable unmodified range. These mobs were level 6 or lower, so mitigation played absolutely no role, not to mention most mobs have absolutely no mitigation of any kind, or that mitigation is negligible. Not once did +DPS% affect the damage done by a combat art listed as melee damage. In fact the only thing that combat arts that state does "melee damage" share in common is that they do damage according to your weapon type. If using crushing, they do crushing, if piercing then piercing, if slashing then slashing. Now I used bind wound, and then auto-attacked a mob triggering invigorated. Gain: 10% combat art damage Breach Adept III: 157-451, Buckler Reversal Adept IV: 389-648. This means that mechanics wise these abilities display correctly. All of my breaches under invigorated did damage within the listed range. At least in this cursory experimenting and all my prior experience I've not seen a situation in which +DPS% affects combat arts. To top this off, I have a 60 SK, and have/had Death March AD3, which grants 104% DPS. I have never seen a groupmate's "does melee damage" CA do double because of it, in fact I haven't seen a case where it boosted it even 10%, or 1%. (I would log on my SK and test it myself however SKs do not have "melee damage" combat arts, they all do disease or a specific damage type IIRC.) Please explain a situation or setup in which +DPS% can be shown to have a direct effect on the damage range of combat arts?

Tasi3989

04-16-2006, 08:55 PM

<DIV>wouldn't 30% of one minute be more than 3.6 sec?</DIV>

-Aonein-

04-17-2006, 10:28 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dimglow wrote: At least in this cursory experimenting and all my prior experience I've not seen a situation in which +DPS% affects combat arts. To top this off, I have a 60 SK, and have/had Death March AD3, which grants 104% DPS. I have never seen a groupmate's "does melee damage" CA do double because of it, in fact I haven't seen a case where it boosted it even 10%, or 1%. (I would log on my SK and test it myself however SKs do not have "melee damage" combat arts, they all do disease or a specific damage type IIRC.) Please explain a situation or setup in which +DPS% can be shown to have a direct effect on the damage range of combat arts? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> This is the problem, DPS mod buffs and passive abilitys do not increase the BASE damage of the combat arts. Only STR does that which is why you see the numbers change when you apply more STR. Haste is the same, you dont see your Delay on your weapon change when hasted right? Your 104% DPS buff is a 15 second duration which is triggered if the person with the buff on them kills the mob, which is pretty hard to land a death blow in a group of 6 people, or even a raid. So, its a hard utility to make a comparison with. The only real way you will see where DPS mod buffs and passive abilitys come into play is with a parser, and you have to do it over a certain period of time given SoE's RNG and how spikey your dmg output can be over a small amount of time. The numbers you generated over what ever period of time you did it, which id be guessing less then 5 mins proves how spikey it can be. All your really showing us with your numbers is that you are hitting within the spectrum indicated on the CA information. It could be low end damage with DPS applied, like i said, no way to really tell unless you run a parser and get it to record max hits done by CA's and total damage output of the CA used. One thing to remember, you could have 500% DPS, and still only do the low end hit on a CA, hence the reason to get a accurate reading of how it really works is to do it over long periods of time, like 1 hour periods and i suggest you dont use Berserk ethier seeing it could proc quite often and then not at all for some time, its best to do your experimenting with a Coecer in the group that can add a constant amount of DPS to you or a Dirge and while you do this, leave Infuriation and War Cry off so not to skew the results. Do it for 1 hour killing the same mobs, i suggest high lvl grey ^^^ con mobs so you have a 100% chance to hit so not to skew anything else in the process ethier.

Dimgl

04-17-2006, 05:17 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote: This is the problem, DPS mod buffs and passive abilitys do not increase the BASE damage of the combat arts. Only STR does that which is why you see the numbers change when you apply more STR. Haste is the same, you dont see your Delay on your weapon change when hasted right? First I am going to state that you still haven't stated the mechanics or formulae through which DPS% affects melee CAs, so I am going to continue to assume that you see them as a direct multiplier, in that CA Damage is equal to CADamage*(1+DPS%/100) or that at 0% DPS your CA Damage is equal to listed, and at 100% DPS you expect 2x listed CA damage. This is the same mechanic that determines auto-attack damage. I didn't adjust STR at all, because as a multiplier, it simplifies out of the formulae, I am testing specifically what you stated: That DPS mods affect Combat Arts. Thus the experiment is -controlled- and the only changing variable is DPS%, and the tested result is combat art damage. Please also note that in order to account for possibly display bugs which you suggest, I ran the tests and addressed it. I controlled berserk so that at every use of Breach there was a DPS mod of 21%, very easy to do with plentiful grey enemies, really. There was a 26% chance of hitting in the range you proposed is possible by the mods. Let's assume that there was a 74% chance of hitting for any other number lower in the range, the odds of having a 74% chance occur over 50 times in a row is 0.74^50 = 2.8*10^-7. 28 millionths of a percent of a chance at happening. There was also 0% chance to land hits for 142-172, and yet it happened many times. There was however a 100% chance of having all 50 hits land in the CA's listed range if you say that DPS% doesn't affect CA damage, and it was what was observed in testing. Your 104% DPS buff is a 15 second duration which is triggered if the person with the buff on them kills the mob, which is pretty hard to land a death blow in a group of 6 people, or even a raid. So, its a hard utility to make a comparison with. I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or if you are simply unfamiliar with the mechanics of the ability. Death March triggers if anyone in the group lands a killing blow, and then grants 104% DPS to the -entire- group. Saying that this ability goes off rarely is just plain foolish, a group of 6 can easily have it go off 20 times in the minute long duration while fighting group content. Not once have I, or any groupmate noticed an improvement to combat art damage during it. I've probably had Death March proc two to three thousand times minimum while playing my Shadowknight before I re-rolled Berserker on PVP. With a whole minute of 104% dps, (you can even get 75 seconds out of it if you kill a mob at the end) you can still generate significant testing, especially when the testing simply has to prove the following: If CA does 100-200 at 0% DPS, it should do 200-400 at 100% DPS. Landing hits from 100-200 should be impossible, all hits should land for 200-400. The second you land a hit in the CA's listed range(100-200) you've broken the expected range(200-400), similarly despite having a 100% chance to land the CA for 200-400 damage under your expectations, you will -never- see that happen in a controlled experiment. If your prediction is 0% accurate, your hypothesis needs refining. The only real way you will see where DPS mod buffs and passive abilitys come into play is with a parser, and you have to do it over a certain period of time given SoE's RNG and how spikey your dmg output can be over a small amount of time. The numbers you generated over what ever period of time you did it, which id be guessing less then 5 mins proves how spikey it can be. All your really showing us with your numbers is that you are hitting within the spectrum indicated on the CA information. It could be low end damage with DPS applied, like i said, no way to really tell unless you run a parser and get it to record max hits done by CA's and total damage output of the CA used. I addressed the probability of the situation you suggested above. The bonus of DPS% to auto-attack is easily noticeable. The bonus of DPS% to combat arts as you suggested is either negligible or nonexistent, unless it must be activated or realized in some way of which you haven't elucidated. One thing to remember, you could have 500% DPS, and still only do the low end hit on a CA, hence the reason to get a accurate reading of how it really works is to do it over long periods of time, like 1 hour periods and i suggest you dont use Berserk ethier seeing it could proc quite often and then not at all for some time, its best to do your experimenting with a Coecer in the group that can add a constant amount of DPS to you or a Dirge and while you do this, leave Infuriation and War Cry off so not to skew the results. Do it for 1 hour killing the same mobs, i suggest high lvl grey ^^^ con mobs so you have a 100% chance to hit so not to skew anything else in the process ethier. 500% DPS wouldn't matter, as it would cap to 100%, but that is just semantics. Regardless you're suggesting that even with a ridiculous value of 500% DPS that it would be possible to not notice a boost to CA damage over extensive testing. If over an hour of play I was unable to generate convincing evidence that DPS% was effecting CAs why would I believe it was having an effect at all? You are suggesting that even at max effect you can't notice the boost, so why are you convinced there is a boost? That seems rather strange reasoning to me, especially given that 50 uses of Breach only takes 8-9 minutes to perform and we've already looked at the probability of having what you suggest occur. Think about that, if the chance of noticing a boost from DPS% to Combat Arts is so small that it takes hours of testing then the bonus itself must be either so small that it is nearly negligible or a "ghost in the machine," something that only exists in random trials when the RNG lines up the way you are expecting and want it to do so in order to prove your theory. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>

Lukee

04-18-2006, 01:44 AM

Question about Executioner's Wrath. If I use that and then use Frenzy, do all 3 attacks have an increased chance to crit or is it just the first one?

Dimgl

04-18-2006, 02:56 AM

<DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lukee wrote: Question about Executioner's Wrath. If I use that and then use Frenzy, do all 3 attacks have an increased chance to crit or is it just the first one? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> In the 10-20 times Frenzy has crit for me all three hits crit simultaneously, I've never only crit one, or only 2, always 3; or rather I should state that I crit every frenzied blow that hits, can't crit a miss can I? :smileyvery-happy: I would imagine using Executioner's Wrath would lead to all 3 critting most of the time (assuming all 3 hit.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another berserker who actually uses that achievement line may be able to answer you with better info though.</DIV>

Lukee

04-18-2006, 06:59 PM

Well, I tried it last night. No go. Frenzy never crit. It could be because it isn't a Melee attack or that it just takes too long to cast and you usually get in a melee attack before your frenzy hits.

-Aonein-

04-18-2006, 08:40 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dimglow wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote: This is the problem, DPS mod buffs and passive abilitys do not increase the BASE damage of the combat arts. Only STR does that which is why you see the numbers change when you apply more STR. Haste is the same, you dont see your Delay on your weapon change when hasted right? First I am going to state that you still haven't stated the mechanics or formulae through which DPS% affects melee CAs, so I am going to continue to assume that you see them as a direct multiplier, in that CA Damage is equal to CADamage*(1+DPS%/100) or that at 0% DPS your CA Damage is equal to listed, and at 100% DPS you expect 2x listed CA damage. This is the same mechanic that determines auto-attack damage. I didn't adjust STR at all, because as a multiplier, it simplifies out of the formulae, I am testing specifically what you stated: That DPS mods affect Combat Arts. Thus the experiment is -controlled- and the only changing variable is DPS%, and the tested result is combat art damage. Please also note that in order to account for possibly display bugs which you suggest, I ran the tests and addressed it. I controlled berserk so that at every use of Breach there was a DPS mod of 21%, very easy to do with plentiful grey enemies, really. There was a 26% chance of hitting in the range you proposed is possible by the mods. Let's assume that there was a 74% chance of hitting for any other number lower in the range, the odds of having a 74% chance occur over 50 times in a row is 0.74^50 = 2.8*10^-7. 28 millionths of a percent of a chance at happening. There was also 0% chance to land hits for 142-172, and yet it happened many times. There was however a 100% chance of having all 50 hits land in the CA's listed range if you say that DPS% doesn't affect CA damage, and it was what was observed in testing. Your 104% DPS buff is a 15 second duration which is triggered if the person with the buff on them kills the mob, which is pretty hard to land a death blow in a group of 6 people, or even a raid. So, its a hard utility to make a comparison with. I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or if you are simply unfamiliar with the mechanics of the ability. Death March triggers if anyone in the group lands a killing blow, and then grants 104% DPS to the -entire- group. Saying that this ability goes off rarely is just plain foolish, a group of 6 can easily have it go off 20 times in the minute long duration while fighting group content. Not once have I, or any groupmate noticed an improvement to combat art damage during it. I've probably had Death March proc two to three thousand times minimum while playing my Shadowknight before I re-rolled Berserker on PVP. With a whole minute of 104% dps, (you can even get 75 seconds out of it if you kill a mob at the end) you can still generate significant testing, especially when the testing simply has to prove the following: If CA does 100-200 at 0% DPS, it should do 200-400 at 100% DPS. Landing hits from 100-200 should be impossible, all hits should land for 200-400. The second you land a hit in the CA's listed range(100-200) you've broken the expected range(200-400), similarly despite having a 100% chance to land the CA for 200-400 damage under your expectations, you will -never- see that happen in a controlled experiment. If your prediction is 0% accurate, your hypothesis needs refining. The only real way you will see where DPS mod buffs and passive abilitys come into play is with a parser, and you have to do it over a certain period of time given SoE's RNG and how spikey your dmg output can be over a small amount of time. The numbers you generated over what ever period of time you did it, which id be guessing less then 5 mins proves how spikey it can be. All your really showing us with your numbers is that you are hitting within the spectrum indicated on the CA information. It could be low end damage with DPS applied, like i said, no way to really tell unless you run a parser and get it to record max hits done by CA's and total damage output of the CA used. I addressed the probability of the situation you suggested above. The bonus of DPS% to auto-attack is easily noticeable. The bonus of DPS% to combat arts as you suggested is either negligible or nonexistent, unless it must be activated or realized in some way of which you haven't elucidated. One thing to remember, you could have 500% DPS, and still only do the low end hit on a CA, hence the reason to get a accurate reading of how it really works is to do it over long periods of time, like 1 hour periods and i suggest you dont use Berserk ethier seeing it could proc quite often and then not at all for some time, its best to do your experimenting with a Coecer in the group that can add a constant amount of DPS to you or a Dirge and while you do this, leave Infuriation and War Cry off so not to skew the results. Do it for 1 hour killing the same mobs, i suggest high lvl grey ^^^ con mobs so you have a 100% chance to hit so not to skew anything else in the process ethier. 500% DPS wouldn't matter, as it would cap to 100%, but that is just semantics. Regardless you're suggesting that even with a ridiculous value of 500% DPS that it would be possible to not notice a boost to CA damage over extensive testing. If over an hour of play I was unable to generate convincing evidence that DPS% was effecting CAs why would I believe it was having an effect at all? You are suggesting that even at max effect you can't notice the boost, so why are you convinced there is a boost? That seems rather strange reasoning to me, especially given that 50 uses of Breach only takes 8-9 minutes to perform and we've already looked at the probability of having what you suggest occur. Think about that, if the chance of noticing a boost from DPS% to Combat Arts is so small that it takes hours of testing then the bonus itself must be either so small that it is nearly negligible or a "ghost in the machine," something that only exists in random trials when the RNG lines up the way you are expecting and want it to do so in order to prove your theory. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Simple answer to this entire post is, you havent tested it at all, except for running a few combat arts while trying to trigger them off with Berserk running and trying to say that because there is a minium 100 amount of damage and a maximum 200 amount that 100% DPS mod would make you do 200 and 400, you fail to take any consideration of what the mob will absorb in the attack itself and it is possible to still hit on the low side of the spectrum while having DPS abilitys enabled. I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or if you are simply unfamiliar with the mechanics of the ability. Death March triggers if anyone in the group lands a killing blow, and then grants 104% DPS to the -entire- group. Saying that this ability goes off rarely is just plain foolish, a group of 6 can easily have it go off 20 times in the minute long duration while fighting group content. Not once have I, or any groupmate noticed an improvement to combat art damage during it. I've probably had Death March proc two to three thousand times minimum while playing my Shadowknight before I re-rolled Berserker on PVP. With a whole minute of 104% dps, (you can even get 75 seconds out of it if you kill a mob at the end) you can still generate significant testing, especially when the testing simply has to prove the following: You may want to reread how Death March works, incase you dont know the correct way this ability works, the ability itself lasts 1 min, IF you strike a Death Blow you have 15 seconds of 104% DPS, not 1 min of constant 104% DPS, here is the spell information for it: Death March Master I: <UL> <LI>When target strikes a death blow this spell will cast On the March on target. Lasts 15 seconds.</LI> <UL> <LI>Makes group members immune to Stun, Pacify, Stifle, Root and Fear effects.</LI> <LI>Increases INT of group members by 145.</LI> <LI>Increases Damage Per Second of group members (AE) by 119%.</LI></UL></UL> This means that you have 1 min of chances to proc the effect IF you land a death blow or anyone in your group lands a Death Blow and the effect On the March only lasts 15 seconds then wears off, so its really only useful in group mobs where you will make multiple kills during the session of the 1 min, unless you have mobs that are close by and can keep them chain pulled, if you are famaliar with this term. I addressed the probability of the situation you suggested above. The bonus of DPS% to auto-attack is easily noticeable. The bonus of DPS% to combat arts as you suggested is either negligible or nonexistent, unless it must be activated or realized in some way of which you haven't elucidated. Oh i see, so because i can also hit with auto attack with my 86 dmg rating weapon as low as 100 dmg even with 100% DPS, this means that what you are saying is negligible or nonexsistent? No, it doesnt, it means i understand that the RNG in this game sucks and i had a bad roll, not to mention i dont know how much mitigation the mob has, what type of dmg he is more resistant too wether it be phyisical, magic, mental etc etc. The probability of you hitting on the lower end of the spectrum with no DPS mod buffs or passive abilitys, is higher then you hitting on the high end of the ability i can assure you. As you increase your DPS you run the chance of rolling on the high side of the spectrum as if you never had any DPS mod buffs or passive abilitys to begin with. Look man im not here to start a [Removed for Content] match with you which seems like you were looking for one, i congratulated on your post being one of the best and most informative out there, but there are ways to tweak it even more once a player gets a eye for it which by using this post will help them keep a eye out for it. Not sure where your offensive tone is coming from to be honest, but good luck with the rest of the post man, im out, you can reply to this if you feel the need but what i suggest you do it look for ACT pracer, ask around for it, im sure someone has it, run some real extensive tests, not just number crunching from your log file.Message Edited by -Aonein- on 04-19-2006 03:43 AM

Dimgl

04-18-2006, 11:49 PM

[Too much to quote.] I am not trying to get into an argument or "[Removed for Content] contest" as you put it, nor did I intend any hosility, though my inquiries may be a bit hard-lined. I am trying to build a good information base for the use of the community, and you brought forth a claim with the intention of adding it to the knowledge base for others (the same goal I had in constructing this post.) Many players will find the information helpful from one perspective or another, so I wholeheartedly encourage reviews and addendums, but at the same time I feel responsible to maintaining the logical reasoning and truthfulness of the FAQ as best I can, so any suggested changes to overarching mechanics are something I should test before incorporating into the FAQ. The problem that arose was when you made a claim (That DPS% mods affect combat arts which do "melee damage" ) and then did not lay out a situation, hypothetical or real, in which the mechanics you claim to occur do factually occur, and in which your predictions could be tested and reproduced. Saying that +DPS% modifications have an effect on Combat Art damage is fine and dandy, but there has been no case built to demonstrate this, while there has been testing to the contrary. Saying that +DPS% will increase your over-all DPS is a true statement (and was never contested,) it will improve auto-attack, however it will not improve combat arts though as it currently appears to function in game. You may have been confused as to semantics (a pitfall in many discussions), as in your last post you changed your case from being one in which you used a combat art like Buckler Reversal (which does melee damage, the condition you stipulated) to simply being the raw melee damage that you get from auto-attack, which I think is universally agreed upon to be affected by +DPS%. I am familiar with the ACT parser. I used it to test many of the premises I built the FAQ on, it is a good tool. I do not mean this last thing as a personal attack, but instead as a consideration. If in the FAQ I had stated that increasing WIS increased your overall DPS, I would have been called out almost immediately on that claim and had it stated as wrong. Many people would have simply just said "You're an idiot." while others would ask for parses, testing, or situations in which they could test the claim themselves. If it could be shown that increasing WIS was increasing overall DPS in the way in which the originator of the claim had described, and it could be reproduced on many other characters then it may be entirely unexpected under current mechanics, but it could also be true, and would require a revision of the "common knowledge" relevant to the class. However if the testers of the claim instead found that the claim was wrong in their testing, and yet the author of the claim simply reiterated "WIS improves DPS" but never once explained how or described how to reap the benefit from WIS, then it is unlikely that any validity could be given to the claim, and it would be dismissed. My apologies to anyone else if they found the discussion distasteful, just trying to maintain the veritability and validity of the FAQ.

Zygwen

04-24-2006, 08:40 PM

AFAIK +DPS only affects auto attack damage. Combat Arts can deal more damage based on debuffs that reduce the physical mitigation of the mob but not +DPS mods. I have tested this while soloing by using my own +DPS buffs. The minimum hits values for combat arts remain unchanged while I have those +DPS buffs on but my auto attack damage does. iirc even mousing over your +DPS value in the persona window explicitly says that it affects auto attack. <div></div>

JSMINTAM

04-25-2006, 11:16 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>Lukee wrote:<div></div> Well, I tried it last night. No go. Frenzy never crit. It could be because it isn't a Melee attack or that it just takes too long to cast and you usually get in a melee attack before your frenzy hits.<hr></blockquote>Frenzy crits fine, and all attacks that hit on it will crit. Pop executioner's, stop auto attacking while you're casting it, then hit the frenzy auto attack button. Boom, 3 pretty big numbers over the mob's head.</div>

Goldsna

04-30-2006, 06:08 PM

Does Dragoon's Cyclone use a concentration slot?

Dimgl

05-01-2006, 01:18 AM

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Goldsnake wrote: Does Dragoon's Cyclone use a concentration slot? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> No, it does not.</DIV>

Dimgl

05-03-2006, 11:53 PM

Updated for LU#23. - Demolish renamed Stance Mastery. - Made a note in the description of Gladiator's Finesse that the second attack of a double attack is unable to trigger a proc effect. Please report any bugs/changes that may have been introduced with LU23 but went undocumented. Edit: I go ingame, and do a little testing and find that Dragoon's Cyclone seems to be broken right now, causing abnormal hit patterns against single targets and not attacking nearby enemies as it once did. Edit: Dragoon's Cyclone working again. Message Edited by Dimglow on 05-03-2006 04:15 PMMessage Edited by Dimglow on 05-04-2006 08:41 AM

Goldsna

05-08-2006, 12:28 PM

<DIV> Thanks for the great post Dimglow. I have a quick question on the math in the Appendix DPS Comparison. I am currently in the Str (max crit) and Wis (max DPS) lines and am thinking of trying out Sta (max double attk) and Wis (max DPS). If I go Sta + Wis line, according to your math will be like this 1h = 25 (Normal attk) * 1.2 (DPS) * 1.76 (Double Attk) + 75 (Combat arts) = 127.8 In the Str + Wis line, I am interpreting the math like this: 2h = 25 (Normal attk) * 1.2 (DPS) * 1.06 (Crit) * 1.33 (2h mod) + 75 (Combat arts) * 1.06 (Crit) = 121.8 The question is, does the 2h mod work on combat arts as well? If so, then 2h will still be significantly over the 1h option? 2h = 25 (Normal attk) * 1.2 (DPS) * 1.06 (Crit) * 1.33 (2h mod) + 75 (Combat arts) * 1.06 (Crit) * 1.33 (2h mod) = 148.03 Thanks for your help!</DIV>Message Edited by Goldsnake on 05-08-2006 05:30 PM

Dimgl

05-08-2006, 07:36 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Goldsnake wrote: <DIV> The question is, does the 2h mod work on combat arts as well? If so, then 2h will still be significantly over the 1h option?</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Having a 2hander equipped isn't going to change your combat art damage at all (excluding str on it, or a specific statement that it improves combat art damage, of which I've seen no weapon as such.) Your math is very much dead on, however you can't apply the 33% bonus from using a 2h to combat arts as you probably suspected. Also remember that you should adjust the "unit" ratio depending on how you do your damage. If you were doing 40% through auto and 60% through cas you may find a different combination actually suits your playstyle best.

Dimgl

05-14-2006, 01:04 AM

<div></div><div></div> Alright, revision time. The amount of damage added through critical hits is different than earlier calculated. I've worked through some modelling with another person, forum name Rokjin, who plays a Swashbuckler in my guild and static party. We've found that things weren't as we first thought. His post can be found here: <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=103589" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=103589</a><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=33&message.id=11806" target="_blank"></a> Previously my analysis of critical hits was as follows: Critical (Bonus damage): Critical hits are relatively new to the game. Currently they result in a 30% bonus to damage. Critical hits, unlike other DPS modifiers are capable of acting on Combat Arts, giving them an advantage. However, unlike the other abilities which add completely in "units" (a double-attack is 2 hits, not 1.3 hits) critical hits must be considered carefully, as they only add 30% of the critical chance to your overall DPS. How does that work? If you had one ability that did 100 damage had a 10 second cooldown, you would expect to do 600 damage in a minute. If you had a 50% critical chance, you would now crit 3 of those attacks (on average) which would increase the damage 30% (or 30 points, 3 times.) Now you've done 690 in the minute, meaning despite your 50% critical chance, you've only improved your DPS by 15%. (50% crit chance * 30% damage modifier = .5 * .3 = .15) And subsequent analysis and comparison worked off of this model. Instead though critical hits work in a (somewhat) pecuilar fashion. You can read Rokjin's post for (even more) heavy detail mathematics, however the short and skinny of it is this. Your auto-attack range can be represented as 1x to 3x, with average damage being 2x. For example if your weapon lists its damage range as 25-75, you would expect an average of 50 damage. A critical hit however seems to work like this: The attack damage is rolled, 25-75, and then multiplied by 1.3 (a 30% bonus.) This would make a critical hit's range equal to 32.5 to 97.5. However for any critical rolled below 75 (the max damage of a normal hit) it is then raised to be 75. Meaning a critical hit will really only hit for 75-97.5. In a range of 32.5-97.5 (a distance of 65) you can roll below 75 with 42.5 of the possible 65 rolls. 75-32.5 = 42.5. This 42.5 valuere presents 65% of the total possible outcomes of a roll between 32.5 and 97.5. (42.5/65 = 65%) So then for 65% of critical hits, your damage will be defaulted to be typical max damage, or 75. The other 35 of outcomes will display normally between 75 and 97.5. This is why critical hits have such oddly streaky numbers. 65% of your crits will do 75 damage, and 35% will do between 75 and 97.5. Average this means 35% will do 86.25. Then you have (.65*75)+(.35*86.25) = 78.93 as an average critical hit. Your average normal hit was 50 damage, this is a ~57% bonus to auto-attack. (78.93/50 = 1.578.) This applies for all 1:3 weapons, where mindamage:maxdamage of the listed weapon.Combat arts work differently. They do not increase to the maximum damage. Instead it acts as a straight 30% modifier to combat art damage.Now that that is out of the way, how do crits affect your overall damage? Well, that's complicated. Each percent of crit can be equated to a ~.57% boost in auto-attack damage, this compares to 1% in haste or dps which have a ~1% boost in auto-attack damage. Haste and DPS are still king for auto-attack (assuming you have a normal weapon! There are weapons like the Ghostly Bow of Bylze or the Blackscale Maul, or the ever popular Vraksakin Claw Club which DO break the 1-3x rule.) Then each percent of crit will boost your combat arts by 30%. Therefore if you assume 85% of your damage is auto-attack and 15% is combat arts: (.85*1.57)+(.15*1.3) = 1.5295. If you move the numbers around a bit you'll probably get values between 50 and 60% in terms of total bonus from crit. So heading way back to the original model, where we make the assumption that 75% of your DPS is CAs, and 25% is auto-attack, we now get: (.75*1.53)+(.25*1.57) = 1.54, or that 100% crit would increase your overall DPS somewhere in the realm of 54%. In order to determine how much the crit available to you would actually effect things, take your crit %, and multiply it by the 54%. Or then that 24% crit from achievements would give (.24*.54) = ~13%. A 13% boost to overall DPS, when compared to the original idea of doing 100 units of damage would give us 113 units of damage.Message Edited by Dimglow on 01-19-2007 12:23 PM

Dimgl

05-14-2006, 01:27 AM

<DIV>Phew. I apologize for the triple post, my own fault for not posting a few blank posts under my original thread for cases like these.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The FAQ has been changed/updated in many places including fixing the description and mechanics of Acceleration Strike (which I've re-tested, and confirmed to work as Rorrak stated, thanks, sorry for taking so long to update) and also a major overhaul to the critical hit evaluation, due to a lot of work and modelling another guildmate and I did on the matter. I've made a few cross-references available for those interested in the heavy mathematical details, but tried to keep the original FAQ fairly simple. I've also updated a few comments, the test levels of some abilities (I've since gained more achievement and tried more things in combination etc), and the way mechanics function for a few abilities here and there that I have since had time to test in more detail. I also removed the extra knockdown from Belly Smash as it is going to be removed in LU24.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again, let me know if there are any mistakes/typoes or anything odd or otherwise out of place that anyone sees. I hope this information is helpful to everyone out there.</DIV>

Mordicus

05-19-2006, 10:28 PM

Sta AA final Ability is broken !!! Lets get it fixed!!! Mordicus 70 Zerker Strike <div></div>

Goldsna

05-20-2006, 07:22 AM

<DIV> Dimglow, So the new estimated Crit mod (Maxed crit AA) is 1.13? In the Str + Wis line: 2h = 25 (Normal attk) * 1.2 (DPS) * 1.13 (Crit) * 1.33 (2h mod) + 75 (Combat arts) * 1.13 (Crit) = 129.8</DIV>

Dimgl

05-20-2006, 05:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Goldsnake wrote: <DIV> Dimglow, So the new estimated Crit mod (Maxed crit AA) is 1.13? In the Str + Wis line: 2h = 25 (Normal attk) * 1.2 (DPS) * 1.13 (Crit) * 1.33 (2h mod) + 75 (Combat arts) * 1.13 (Crit) = 129.8</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> If what you did was take the .53% or so more damage for a traditional 1-3 weapon, then multiply it by your % crit chance from STR (~23%) to get 12-13% crit mod for your 1h, that is correct. Your crit modifier for combat arts however is a bit sketchy, remember that crits affect CAs based on their ratio, and you will really need to consider how much each CA contributes to your DPS before you factor crits in. If you were simply taking my theoretical average of about ~57% modifier to combat arts from crits, and multiplying that by the ~23% crit chance, and getting 12-13%, then that's fine though, you can use 1.13 as a flat modifier assuming you have a traditional weapon and a fairly simple CA skew. Just remember though, you will always want to parse your DPS out and actually see what % of your damage is auto-attack and what % is combat arts (and which) in order to make an accurate estimate. For comparison, I do about 45-65% of my damage through auto-attack, nowhere near the 25% that I typically run the example equation with, but at the same time this is after my achievements have been considered. Using a Blade of the Bixies I average 370 DPS just using auto-attack, with self-buffs/techniques. In parties I tend to do more thanks to other buffs, my total DPS tends to be 500-750 or so while tanking on fights without rampage/open wounds, with auto-attack comprising ~400-450 or so of that dps. I'm working towards a Dazzling Blade (PVP reward weapon, 1h with ~80 DR) which will give me a great deal more DPS as well, even further skewing me towards auto-attack. This is after my achievements are factored in though, so you can see just how much your achievement choice will affect your DPS distribution.

Covena

06-29-2006, 10:42 AM

<DIV>New Zerker here with a question on Dragoon's Cyclone. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The effect is described as Effect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: 24.0% chance that auto-attacks will also hit up to 4 targets in front of the Dragoon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is this ability 4 "additional" targets or up to 4 targets total which would include your original target? In other words, must you engage more than one target for this to add to your auto-attack dps? If you have engaged a solo encounter, will your total average auto-attack damage against that one target increase by 24%? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, I assume that this is not restricted to one encounter. You could pull 4-5 different solo encounters, keep them all in front of you, and damage them all?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Dimgl

06-29-2006, 04:10 PM

<DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Covenant wrote: <DIV>New Zerker here with a question on Dragoon's Cyclone. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The effect is described as Effect (Level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />: 24.0% chance that auto-attacks will also hit up to 4 targets in front of the Dragoon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is this ability 4 "additional" targets or up to 4 targets total which would include your original target? In other words, must you engage more than one target for this to add to your auto-attack dps? If you have engaged a solo encounter, will your total average auto-attack damage against that one target increase by 24%? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, I assume that this is not restricted to one encounter. You could pull 4-5 different solo encounters, keep them all in front of you, and damage them all?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>You're right in that it isn't encounter limited, the mechanics are exactly the same as open wounds. You will hit 4 targets total (maybe I should change the wording in the FAQ on that, since it may sound like you can hit 5 total.) The attacks on other enemies occur in parallel with your attacks, and whether or not you hit, crit, or proc on the attack that "triggered" cyclone doesn't matter for the other attacks, they will check those aspects independently. Cyclone can not proc cyclone either, before you're hoping for some kinda chain reaction. You will not hit your target any additional times with Cyclone, you will only also hit enemies that you normally otherwise would not have hit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll update the FAQ to clarify the ability.</DIV>

FightGame

06-30-2006, 01:59 AM

<DIV>ya, I was wondering this as well. But to be clear, it doesn't give you 24% more dps...ever. It gives you a 24% chance to have your auto attack hit up to 4 enemies in front of you. The way I take it, is that it is 3 enemies, in addition to the one you have targeted. If you were fighting a solo mob, this ability will have no use.</DIV>

Covena

06-30-2006, 06:48 AM

<DIV>Issue #1:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have not tested this, but conceptually, if you were fighting 2 mobs you would experience a 24% boost in your auto-attack dps from 8 pts in Dragoon's Cyclone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For example, let's say you typically do 100 dps from auto-attacks (ignoring crits) to a solo mob. </DIV> <UL> <LI>His buddy wanders up and engages you as well, now you are doing 100dps to the first solo mob + 100dps to the second mob 24% of the time, hence a 124 dps in aggregate with a 2 mob encounter.</LI> <LI>Now let's expand the illustation to a 3 mob encounter...100+24+24 or 148 auto-attack dps, a 48% increase.</LI> <LI>4 mob encounter (or more) would cap out at a 72% increase in average auto-attack dps.</LI></UL> Therefore, AGI is extremely effective (unless I misunderstand the mechanics) on large groups of mobs. This assumes that you can keep them all in your frontal arc and that crowd control is not an issue. Issue #2: The reason I'm interested in this dynamic with the AGI line is that I'm trying to weigh the pros and cons of pairing either AGI or WIS with the STA line + 5 points into INT for the haste buff. Let's compare the these two alternatives: STA + WIS: It would seem to me that STA+WIS would allow for the following dps (Note that I'm typically 40% auto-attack damage and 60% CA damage with no AA's spent): <UL> <LI>40 x 1.76(STA) x 1.192(WIS) + 60 = 143.91 average total dps</LI></UL> Now let's assume I can keep the INT 22% buff up 50% of the time, the dps increases as follows: <UL> <LI>40 x 1.76(STA) x 1.192(WIS) x 1.11(50% of 22% INT haste) + 60 = 153.14 average total dps</LI></UL> STA + AGI: Now to compare the dps in the STA + AGI lines (with some INT) with the same assumptions: <UL> <LI>1 mob would yield 40 x 1.76(STA) x 1.11(50% of 22% INT haste) + 60 = 138.144 average total dps</LI> <LI>2 mobs would yield (40 x 1.76(STA) x 1.11(50% of 22% INT haste)) x1.24(AGI) + 60 = 156.899 average total dps</LI> <LI>3 mobs would yield (40 x 1.76(STA) x 1.11(50% of 22% INT haste)) x1.48(AGI) + 60 = 175.653 average total dps</LI> <LI>4 mobs would yield (40 x 1.76(STA) x 1.11(50% of 22% INT haste)) x1.72(AGI) + 60 = 194.408 average total dps</LI></UL> Tentative Conclusion: If the above is true to the actual damage mechanic, then adding AGI to the STA line (with 5 pts on INT) will yield the best results if you are engaged with 2 or more mobs at the same time. If your encounters are solo, then you should go with the WIS line for the additional 10% total damage over time. Is this conclusion valid? What might I have missed?

Dimgl

06-30-2006, 03:40 PM

<DIV>Yes, you're pretty much correct in what you've worked out. STA/WIS is the best damage against a single target, or STA/INT, depending on any other group buffs you may have (building haste or dps depending on what your group gives you) and basing it entirely on auto-attack. STA/AGI is the best damage against groups of enemies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4/4/8 AGI, 4/8/8/8 STA, 4/1 INT is the build I've been for over two months now. With a 79.8 damage rating one-hander (Dazzling Blade), buckler reversal maxed, a blademaster's sash (20% haste) and our last level group zerk M1ed (28% haste/dps) I hit 48% haste/28% dps solo. Add in acceleration strike, and imbued STR rings procs and I can reach 70% haste/54% dps solo. Acceleration strike can be kept up infinitely, and berserk is almost always self-maintaining, so my worst case scenario is 70/28.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With that setup I manage to do 450-600 auto-attack DPS (No CA use, except for acceleration strike, and procs of buckler reversal or our counter+taunt line) to a single target with 100% accuracy. Every target I add ends up taking 110-150 more DPS. I have parsed over 1000 DPS against 4 targets solely auto-attacking (and buckler reversing) under my setup. Just keep in mind the DPS potential of Dragoon's Cyclone is only as powerful as your auto-attack DPS potential, and that this is my solo DPS output at 100% accuracy. In groups you tend to do more due to buffs, but if you're in D stance your accuracy does suffer significantly, especially in zones like Halls of Fate, if you don't have someone buffing your slashing/piercing/crushing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I group with Furies and get Fury berserk for example, I reach 100% DPS and Haste. I auto-attack for 240-725 damage every swing (which is one per second), and double-attack on 76% of those attacks. Auto-attack damage can range from 800-1100 DPS on a single target when fully DPS/Haste buffed. 200-250 damage additional for each target that wonders into the blender you create. I have done over 3500 sustained DPS with open wounds and a fury, and even sustained over 4500 dps with open wounds over 10 seconds with a fury, a dirge (cacophony), and using destruction.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I can vouch for the power of the STA/AGI/INT combo, but I can't really speak from too much experience on the power of STA/WIS. There have been times where I've wished I had the mit, or the DPS, but those are almost always cases of single targets that are really strong, and do a lot of damage, such as single x2s or greater. Still, it is always best to take the paths which fit your playstyle best in the end.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>* (Dazzling Blade and Blademaster's Sash are PVP rewards and not available on a PVE server, just thought I should mention that before someone gets confused.)</DIV>

AxemEbonlo

07-08-2006, 01:07 AM

Any other berserkers having issues with breaking meszs (both single target and AOE) after LU24? Something changed to being a directed AOE attack. Anyone else having this issue?I'm down the STR and STA lines to tier 4 maxxed.<div></div>

Sommarnatt2

07-24-2006, 05:32 PM

<div></div>Anyone figured out which way to go if you're in a raid guild doing Labs, Lyceum, HoS, DT and you're a DPS Zerker and off tank when needed - which way should one go for the maximum dps but still being able to tank well? Ive just switched to buckler reversal after doing the str/wis line for a good while with a 2h (Axe of Overlord). Now Im using a Velium weap until I get a better one from raids and using the Buckler of Archaic from HoS (i think thats the name). Ive put points into: Stamina Line: 4 8 8 8 Wisdom Line: 4 4 5 8 I took the 8 points in mitigation because I do tank in groups and I do off tank on raids. I did not dare putting any points into Int line for the 24% AE attack - if it breaks mezzes it's totally worthless on raids and group encounters where certain mobs need to be mezzed. Any raid Zerkers out there that are optimized for DPS who care to give me their opinion? <div></div>Message Edited by Sommarnatt2 on 07-24-2006 06:34 AM

Griffona

07-24-2006, 08:07 PM

<div></div>Question Regarding Defense:Everyone seems focused on the DPS factor of each line, I'd like to turn it towards examining the defensive aspects for a bit.Regarding the AGI Line Dragoon's Advance:is it really 2.9% Defense per point maxing at 23.2%?meaning @ lvl 70 unbuffed you go from 350 to 431.2 DefenseThe FAQ says untested, yet says this 23.2% bonus affects avoidance between 4.5 an 6% can anyone Confirm this?I'd also like to entertain opinions on how this skill stacks up vs the other AA defensive choicesEspecially 8 points in theWIS +40 Mitigation per pointINT Parry 2.9% per pointWhere do the caps land in terms of each?I know Mitigation Caps at 80% (somewhere over 5k Mit @ lvl 70 I believe), while avoidance is pretty much uncapable for warriors. Is there a "Defense" skill cap?Due to this, I'm guessing the Mitigation from the WIS would become trivial for a raid tank with good equip and buffs, while the INT and AGI bonus' would remain useful.All thoughts on this appreciated.<div></div>

Dimgl

07-24-2006, 09:06 PM

<DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Griffonage wrote: Question Regarding Defense: Everyone seems focused on the DPS factor of each line, I'd like to turn it towards examining the defensive aspects for a bit. Regarding the AGI Line Dragoon's Advance: is it really 2.9% Defense per point maxing at 23.2%? meaning @ lvl 70 unbuffed you go from 350 to 431.2 Defense The FAQ says untested, yet says this 23.2% bonus affects avoidance between 4.5 an 6% can anyone Confirm this?</BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> The FAQ says 4.5-6% total evasion boost, not boost to Defense. The amount of Defense skill you receive is dependent on your level, however it equates to nearly the same total % of evasion regardless of your level, 4.5-6% (at 8 points.) The boost also varies with your defense skill itself, as it is not a linear relationship. I'd also like to entertain opinions on how this skill stacks up vs the other AA defensive choices Especially 8 points in the WIS +40 Mitigation per point INT Parry 2.9% per point The mitigation boost comes up to being ~4.5% total mitigation at 8 points, regardless of level. At level 70 I believe it comes to a total of 320 mitigation. Where do the caps land in terms of each? Skills cap at level * 6, so defense and parry cap at 420. Mitigation and resists cap at your opponent's level * 80. For a level 70 you will reach 80% mitigation at 5600 mitigation to a damage type. I know Mitigation Caps at 80% (somewhere over 5k Mit @ lvl 70 I believe), while avoidance is pretty much uncapable for warriors. Is there a "Defense" skill cap?</BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> I would not call avoidance "uncapable." I am often well over 60% avoidance and it is a strong part of my tanking. The defense skill cap is level*6, or 420 for a level 70. Due to this, I'm guessing the Mitigation from the WIS would become trivial for a raid tank with good equip and buffs, while the INT and AGI bonus' would remain useful. If anything the opposite is true. I reach ~400 defense and parry self-buffed in D stance. A raid tank is easily going to max defense and parry, however mitigation is always helpful, as it is more difficult to keep consistently capped. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV>

Griffona

07-24-2006, 10:07 PM

<div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Dimglow wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Griffonage wrote: <div></div> Question Regarding Defense:Everyone seems focused on the DPS factor of each line, I'd like to turn it towards examining the defensive aspects for a bit.Regarding the AGI Line Dragoon's Advance:is it really 2.9% Defense per point maxing at 23.2%?meaning @ lvl 70 unbuffed you go from 350 to 431.2 DefenseThe FAQ says untested, yet says this 23.2% bonus affects avoidance between 4.5 an 6% can anyone Confirm this?</blockquote> <blockquote dir="ltr"> The FAQ says 4.5-6% total evasion boost, not boost to Defense. The amount of Defense skill you receive is dependent on your level, however it equates to nearly the same total % of evasion regardless of your level, 4.5-6% (at 8 points.) The boost also varies with your defense skill itself, as it is not a linear relationship.Am I reading this right? If the Defense Skill Cap is 420, then this skill essentially is capped self buffed with this AA?I'd also like to entertain opinions on how this skill stacks up vs the other AA defensive choicesEspecially 8 points in theWIS +40 Mitigation per pointINT Parry 2.9% per point The mitigation boost comes up to being ~4.5% total mitigation at 8 points, regardless of level. At level 70 I believe it comes to a total of 320 mitigation.Not Bad as long as you're not capped from Equip and buffs....if you are this is useless no?.Where do the caps land in terms of each? Skills cap at level * 6, so defense and parry cap at 420. Mitigation and resists cap at your opponent's level * 80. For a level 70 you will reach 80% mitigation at 5600 mitigation to a damage type.I know Mitigation Caps at 80% (somewhere over 5k Mit @ lvl 70 I believe), while avoidance is pretty much uncapable for warriors. Is there a "Defense" skill cap?</blockquote> <blockquote dir="ltr"> I would not call avoidance "uncapable." I am often well over 60% avoidance and it is a strong part of my tanking. The defense skill cap is level*6, or 420 for a level 70.Well the Avoidance cap is 80% which you're not approaching...which is what I meant by "Uncappable" but as you're pointing out there are other component caps...such as defense or parry. What if any, are the other factors for avoidance for warriors? Due to this, I'm guessing the Mitigation from the WIS would become trivial for a raid tank with good equip and buffs, while the INT and AGI bonus' would remain useful. If anything the opposite is true. I reach ~400 defense and parry self-buffed in D stance. A raid tank is easily going to max defense and parry, however mitigation is always helpful, as it is more difficult to keep consistently capped.Are Defense and Parry really close to being capped self buffed with Dstance? If so the Parry and Defense AA's frim INT and AGI seem nigh unto useless. However when fighting lvl 74-75 epics the cap is 444-450 if its based on the opponent's level as i've been lead to believe. Can anyone Confirm?.Summary: Ranking these skills, assuming a cap isnt' exceeded it appears they would be ranked from most to least effective:1. WIS Line Mitigation 2. AGI Line Defense (due to omnidirectional application)3. INT Line Parry4 STR Line - no negative effects, but no bonus' to defensive skills5 STA line - Some Avoidance traded for the highest overall DPS bonus' <hr> </blockquote> <div></div><hr></blockquote></div>Message Edited by Griffonage on 07-24-2006 11:08 AMMessage Edited by Griffonage on 07-24-2006 11:09 AM

FightGame

07-25-2006, 01:34 AM

Even though mitigation caps at 80%, more is useful, and the devs have said this. A couple obvious reasons would be if you're fighting a mob higher than your level, or if the mob(s) debuff you. <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Griffonage wrote: <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> Am I reading this right? If the Defense Skill Cap is 420, then this skill essentially is capped self buffed with this AA? Getting high mitigation gear with +defense on it alone, you can just about reach cap, without this AA line. Well the Avoidance cap is 80% which you're not approaching...which is what I meant by "Uncappable" but as you're pointing out there are other component caps...such as defense or parry. What if any, are the other factors for avoidance for warriors? Agility, which caps at 510 for a level 70, adds to your Base Avoidance, just like Defense. Shield Protection number on your shield adds to the Block Percent part of total avoidance. Are Defense and Parry really close to being capped self buffed with Dstance? With good gear, yes. Even without choosing them in your AA's. Even more so, when you're raid buffed.</BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> If so the Parry and Defense AA's frim INT and AGI seem nigh unto useless. However when fighting lvl 74-75 epics the cap is 444-450 if its based on the opponent's level as i've been lead to believe. Can anyone Confirm?. When fighting these tough mobs, the more the better, period. Often times mobs this high will debuff you, so until your healer cures it, the more you have, the better. Summary: Ranking these skills, assuming a cap isnt' exceeded it appears they would be ranked from most to least effective: 1. WIS Line Mitigation 2. AGI Line Defense (due to omnidirectional application) Going INT 4-4-4-8 for parry gives more avoidance than going AGI 4-4-4-8 for more agility and defense Getting gear with parry seems harder than finding stuff with defense, so imo, switch 2 and 3. But, the haste and INT you have to pick up in INT line is probably less useful than other things. 3. INT Line Parry 4 STR Line - no negative effects, but no bonus' to defensive skills This is where I ended up, for the hate gain. Since it seems every other class is going offensive (as they probably should) with their AA's and doing more damage, this hate is needed, even more so when fighting mobs with a mem whipe, and there are a few. I also think the crits you have to pick up along the way is more useful than +DPS and +Haste mods in the other lines, even more so for a zerker. 5 STA line - Some Avoidance traded for the highest overall DPS bonus' If I wasn't a raid tank I'd definetly be here and crits. Some tanks still use this line for raid tanking, and it works for them. Depending on your gear, and group make up, any tank can take any of these lines, and have them work well. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> Message Edited by FightGame on 07-24-2006 02:39 PMMessage Edited by FightGame on 07-24-2006 02:41 PM

Dimgl

07-25-2006, 02:19 AM

<HR> Griffonage wrote: ... Am I reading this right? If the Defense Skill Cap is 420, then this skill essentially is capped self buffed with this AA? I run with around 405 defense alone in my m1 D stance. If I took the achievement I'd break the cap. ... Not Bad as long as you're not capped from Equip and buffs....if you are this is useless no?. If capped against your opponent then all additional skills/stats/etc are only useful if you receive a debuff that reduces them, thus making your extra a debuff buffer. ... Well the Avoidance cap is 80% which you're not approaching...which is what I meant by "Uncappable" but as you're pointing out there are other component caps...such as defense or parry. What if any, are the other factors for avoidance for warriors? Avoidance has no hard cap to my knowledge as it functions as a combination of 3 soft-capped factors. I believe the order of defensive checks is Parry/Riposte, Block, Evade. ... Are Defense and Parry really close to being capped self buffed with Dstance? If so the Parry and Defense AA's frim INT and AGI seem nigh unto useless. However when fighting lvl 74-75 epics the cap is 444-450 if its based on the opponent's level as i've been lead to believe. Can anyone Confirm?. Under M1 D stance I run with around 405 Defense and 395 parry. Group me with anyone who buffs parry or defense and I'm at cap. Summary: Ranking these skills, assuming a cap isnt' exceeded it appears they would be ranked from most to least effective: 1. WIS Line Mitigation Mitigation is always the safe fallback. 2. AGI Line Defense (due to omnidirectional application) 3. INT Line Parry 4 STR Line - no negative effects, but no bonus' to defensive skills 5 STA line - Some Avoidance traded for the highest overall DPS bonus' In my opinion STA's defensive option is the second best, not the worst. If you can get over giving up the initial block. It gives you 4.5% riposte which does not factor into your skill caps, and also gives you 360 degree parry which doesn't factor into skillcaps. You give up about 4-5% frontal avoidance from block total, but gain 4-5% circular avoidance. For a group tank I feel this is an advantage, especially if you pull large encounters, or pull lots of encounters. For a raid tank it is a disadvantage though. Parry is the second hardest skill to cap, as few classes buff it. Defense is the easiest to cap. A bonus to hate is nice, but you should have classes enhancing your hate significantly in a raid situation already, but +hate is easily much more difficult to get than +def or +parry, so it is still a good option. <HR>

Bonesplit

07-25-2006, 07:52 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sommarnatt2 wrote: Anyone figured out which way to go if you're in a raid guild doing Labs, Lyceum, HoS, DT and you're a DPS Zerker and off tank when needed - which way should one go for the maximum dps but still being able to tank well? Ive just switched to buckler reversal after doing the str/wis line for a good while with a 2h (Axe of Overlord). Now Im using a Velium weap until I get a better one from raids and using the Buckler of Archaic from HoS (i think thats the name). Ive put points into: Stamina Line: 4 8 8 8 Wisdom Line: 4 4 5 8 I took the 8 points in mitigation because I do tank in groups and I do off tank on raids. I did not dare putting any points into Int line for the 24% AE attack - if it breaks mezzes it's totally worthless on raids and group encounters where certain mobs need to be mezzed. Any raid Zerkers out there that are optimized for DPS who care to give me their opinion? Message Edited by Sommarnatt2 on 07-24-200606:34 AM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I MT for my guild, but for purely DPS i've wanted to try: Str: 448 Sta: 448 Wis: 444 Int: 41 That should net you 72% double attack, 22% crit, 10% DPS, 22% haste. Depending on what group buffs you normally end up with i might change it around. If you wanted to balance that with some more defense take a few points out (probably int line) and re-distribute them into the +mit or +avoid with buckler.

Griffona

07-25-2006, 10:15 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>Dimglow wrote:<div></div> <hr>In my opinion STA's defensive option is the second best, not the worst. If you can get over giving up the initial block. It gives you 4.5% riposte which does not factor into your skill caps, and also gives you 360 degree parry which doesn't factor into skillcaps. You give up about 4-5% frontal avoidance from block total, but gain 4-5% circular avoidance. For a group tank I feel this is an advantage, especially if you pull large encounters, or pull lots of encounters. For a raid tank it is a disadvantage though.Now that I understand the mechanics of the STA line a bit better, I don't quite follow why you say this is a disadvantage for raid tank. If you give up 4-5% frontal, and in return get 4.5% riposte and 4-5% circular dodge avoidance (1 Negative 2 positive) ...what exactly is the disadvantage. Assuming you can Max Defense and Parry via gear and buffs (especially dirge parry) , the only AA's left that effect defensive skills are WIS and STA....From your explaination STA sounds like STA, in spite of the buckler restriction, is still provides a tanking bonus, an espeically valuable extra roll in fact...Can you explain where the disadvantage is? <hr><hr></blockquote></div>

Dimgl

07-25-2006, 10:26 PM

<DIV>The reason is fairly straightforward, and that is that bucklers have a much lower block chance than a round or kite shield.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shields are designed fairly simply. If all shields are the same level and same quality tier (fabled, legendary, treasured) then the buckler will block x% of the time, a round shield 2x%, and a tower/kite shield will block 3x%.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Meaning if a tower shield had 1500 block, a roundwould have 1000, and a buckler would have 500. These are rough figures, but fairly accurate, especially if you look at items such as crafted shields, or quest rewards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't know what the best fabled gear out there is, the best fabled tower shield I've seen has 1402 protection IIRC. 1402 protection to a level 70 is 20% block. In comparison the best bucklers I've seen are around 380-400, which comes to about ~5.5% total block chance for a buckler user.</DIV> <DIV> The Stamina line gives 4.5% additional block, bringing it to 10%, and then gives 4.5% riposte, which brings it to 14.5%. Even with the best bucklers out there you will still only come up to about 15-16% versus a tower/kite's 20%, meaning you are still losing ~4-5% frontal evasion. For a raid tank interested in absolutely minimizing damage taken, and who is capable of keeping an enemy in front of them, they may find that 4-5% additional evasion to be too valuable to pass up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But, like I said, that net ~4-5% frontal loss comes with a 4.5% circular gain in 360 parry, the lines really work towards a different yet equal net effect, STA does require a larger investment, both in gear restrictions and point sinks to realize its potential though.</DIV>

gorlab

07-31-2006, 10:07 PM

<DIV>Salutations Fellow Berserkers- First off- I am happy to say I just dinged 70 last night <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Yea me!!- now for the real reason I am writing this:</DIV> <DIV>I want to say thank you to Dimglow for writing an excellent post on the different choices for AA's ( and thanks to all the followup posts everyone else has written) - I am a casual player who never raids- just dont have the time for it- so I mainly just pick up groups nightly when I play, that being said I have been for the longest time down the Wisdom line 4 4 4 4 8 and then just a smattering of other stuff. I have been poring over this subject lately and have even gone so far as to steal your line Dimglow</DIV> <DIV>4 8 8 8 STA 4 4 8 AGI 4 1 INT ( I hope you dont mind <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )- And let me say that Sta ability to double attack every 76% of the time- HOLY COW- what a difference that makes! I picked up an Iron plate shielding buckler- having gone down this road I lost about 100 mit and 4 % avoidance- not a horrible price to pay for the extra damage- now I will work on getting the extra defense from agility and see how I fair. Thanks again for all your time in this post!</DIV>

Dimgl

08-01-2006, 01:43 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> gorlab wrote: <DIV>Salutations Fellow Berserkers- First off- I am happy to say I just dinged 70 last night <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Yea me!!- now for the real reason I am writing this:</DIV> <DIV>I want to say thank you to Dimglow for writing an excellent post on the different choices for AA's ( and thanks to all the followup posts everyone else has written) - I am a casual player who never raids- just dont have the time for it- so I mainly just pick up groups nightly when I play, that being said I have been for the longest time down the Wisdom line 4 4 4 4 8 and then just a smattering of other stuff. I have been poring over this subject lately and have even gone so far as to steal your line Dimglow</DIV> <DIV>4 8 8 8 STA 4 4 8 AGI 4 1 INT ( I hope you dont mind <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )- And let me say that Sta ability to double attack every 76% of the time- HOLY COW- what a difference that makes! I picked up an Iron plate shielding buckler- having gone down this road I lost about 100 mit and 4 % avoidance- not a horrible price to pay for the extra damage- now I will work on getting the extra defense from agility and see how I fair. Thanks again for all your time in this post!</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Glad to have been of help. I appreciate the positive feedback. There have been a number of people who have even made toons on my server to thank me or ask questions, and it is still surprising the number of thank yous I get. I don't mind you using the same build as me, it isn't like I trademarked it or anything, I hope you enjoy it as much as me. :smileyvery-happy:

Hardain

08-12-2006, 02:21 PM

<div></div>I posted this on another thread allready, but thought tht it would fir better in this one: I was thinking going to 4 8 8 Sta & 4 4 5 8 8 Wis (or 4 4 8 4 8 Wis for dps), i don't raid tank, atleast yet, so my focus would be in groups and dps, or should i put more into sta or some other line and ignore Stance Mastery? <blockquote> </blockquote> <div></div>Message Edited by Undercova on 08-12-2006 01:23 PM

FightGame

08-15-2006, 05:24 AM

Can anyone confirm if the final ability in Stamina line, called Perseverence (I think), is fixed and working as of today (8/14/06)??? I tried it before and it was not working at all. Still consumed same amount of power and no health gain.

Dimgl

08-15-2006, 11:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Undercova wrote: I posted this on another thread allready, but thought tht it would fir better in this one: I was thinking going to 4 8 8 Sta & 4 4 5 8 8 Wis (or 4 4 8 4 8 Wis for dps), i don't raid tank, atleast yet, so my focus would be in groups and dps, or should i put more into sta or some other line and ignore Stance Mastery? <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> Message Edited by Undercova on 08-12-2006 01:23 PM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Stance mastery's largest benefit is for players who want to fight in defensive stance against yellow or higher con enemies. Combat Skills are somewhat difficult to get, and poor accuracy (which is the result of low slashing/piercing/crushing) can drop our DPS by as much as 50% solely due to missing attacks. Templars and wardens buff these skills naturally. Dirges have a song which grants a significant buff as well, and Paladins who spec WIS get an amazing aura that boosts these. If you group wi th any of those it may not be worth considering giving up 8 points for what is really not a large boost to combat skills (even if it does mean a lot of accuracy.) The reason I don't think stance mastery is so effective for players fighting in offensive stance is that +defense is very easy to get, and you can quite easily negate your offensive stance penalty.

Hardain

08-16-2006, 12:28 PM

<div></div>Well i use defensive stance allways when i take damage, solo, group or in raids where i might need to grab aggro, and offensive only when i'm just doing damage, and not taking it.<div></div>

FightGame

08-17-2006, 12:56 AM

<DIV>Can anyone confirm if the final ability in Stamina line, called Perseverence (I think), is fixed and working?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd really like to try it out, but I know it WAS broke. I guess nobody has this, to say whether it's working or not...</DIV>

Zerv

08-28-2006, 08:21 PM

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>Well, yesterday I respeced from my STA: 4 6 8 8 WIS: 4 4 7 8 to STR: 4 4 8 8 WIS: 4 4 8 8This was mainly due to needing more frontal blockage specifically for raid tanking - I think when we get more t7 equip I will respec to buckler somewhere down the line but for the moment I think it is neededTodays raid I went fromAzjer'orz Guard (Buckler)<img src="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/images/en/tiers/legendary.gif">+20 Strength+22 Stamina+16 Wisdom+80 mana+80 health+568 vs heat+355 vs divine+5 defenseProtection:398 - Level 68toDraconic Deflector(Kite)<img src="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/images/en/tiers/fabled.gif">+26 Strength+26 Stamina+18 Wisdom+70 mana+100 health+1095 vs heat+146 vs slashing+146 vs crushing+146 vs piercingProtection:1402 - Level 70Going from Ajezor's Guard -> Draconic Deflector, I went 10.2 block to 20.7 - so this is exactly inline with Kemt's analysis - 4.9% invisible riposte there also, so I'm gaining a little over 5% block Going AG to DD is Fabled instead of Legendary, and is also lvl 70Another thing to take into consideration was I was swaping in Etheral Buckler of Bzyle for MT'n to do the +mit on it sits at 353 protection, is lvl 60 legendary so I was loosing even more block (it was about 8% block total) and also being a lvl 60 item wasn't as effective - In retrospec, I could and probably should have used the Ajezor's Guard over the Bylze because loosing the block, defense (if not capped) and being a little higher in lvls 68 vs. 60 probably wasn't worth it just for the +mit on the Bylze.Ethereal Buckler of Bylze<img src="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/images/en/tiers/legendary.gif">+5 Stamina+20 Wisdom+65 mana+45 health+189 vs disease+189 vs cold+189 vs heat+189 vs magic+189 vs mental+189 vs divine+189 vs poison+63 vs slashing+63 vs crushing+63 vs piercingProtection:353 Level:60Kemt and I are are both raid tanks on Venekor PvP server with a cross guild raiding entity www.venekorcore.com - and doing t7 raid content we are "probably" not quite as equiped as we should be for this (we went straight to t7 raiding), hense why my change for the moment - ironically I think this spread is going to work fine between myself and kemt MT'ing as frequently I grab the bigger guy and kemt peels off adds (which benefits more from the 360 degree parry).On peliminary testing - my dps has been reduced a bit ~ 10 - 15% (estimated guess and not surprised) however aggro doesn't seem to have changed at all - probably due to spike crits/CA's and the hate in str path - I do feel the extra block quite a bit on the bigger mobs - but I'll have to see actually on raid mobsAnother thing to consider is as a Berserker it is fairly easy to keep aggro due to dps already - MT guardians might gain even more to stamina line due to the increase in DPSI think between the DD and AG that I gained more than 5% due to it being Fabled, more mit, and it's a lvl 70 item - which brings up another discussion would it be worth it to switch from stam/buckler to tower/kite if you can't get better than around a 1k protection one with no mit on it such as the Doomguard Protector? (1051 protection) I would say no - that there would be absolutely no point - you would only be gainin 2% ish block, loosing dps etcI think IF you can come across a high protection shield 1300+ and IF you are a raid MT then going Tower/Kite, +mit in wis line is probably the better way by a small amountIf you cannot get a 1300+ protection tower/kit shield, or are not a MT, or are so equiped that it doesn't matter (have high end raid gear), then stam line is an absolute no brainer I contimplated going all the way down the agility line for the last skill however I just can't justify the last one because it's to situational and doesn't block spell damage -I also contimplated going down the Int line for the +parry however the rest of the line is substandard due to the fact that I'm nearly always capped on haste in raids/groups -Kemt has about the "perfect" AA setup for using a sword prime and maximizing general group instances - and has also proved that he is capable of tanking raid mobs as well<div></div>Message Edited by Zervun on 08-28-2006 09:31 AM

Zerv

08-31-2006, 02:08 AM

Just a follow up - Did my first raid since I have had this spec - it was over our heads equip wise but we tried it anywayI held noticeably more aggro than stam spec probably due to 8 points into hate and 8 points into crits - I lost aggro a couple times at most Healers noticed and I did also that tankability went up quite significantlydps was definately down though especially with being extremely defensive using our slow/mit buff I probably dropped a good 20% dpsAnd on a side note - when going through multiple sets of equipment much harder to find a decent comparable tower/kite - while 3 great bucklers higher end are fairly easy to get(we have nearly 0 repair kits on our side on our pvp server)<div></div>

11-23-2006, 12:22 AM

I am a 61 zerk with 18 AAs. I abandoned the AGI line recently for WIS 4444 and started STA line with #18. I rarely raid and am never the highest level tank when we do. I have just found that mutliple mob encounters are not that common and when I do face them Rampage+Open Wounds makes them trivial regardless of the AGI line. I rely mostly on crafted armor so the extra mit from WIS given the changes to mit with EoF seemed like a good investment. It didn't hurt that I recently got a close to 300 buckler in Kaladim and a nice Legendary 1Her from Fallen Dynasty (the level 61 katana.)

Mordicus

11-25-2006, 03:38 AM

Brigandy

12-18-2006, 07:40 PM

One of the best class write ups hands down. My main is a 70 Brigand and I am currently working on a 49 ranger, which I previously thought had the best writeup but this one takes it hands down. I just dusted the dirt off of my zerker now that my fury is almost 70 and I orignally wanted to build a Zerker to MA or MT in any sitiuation. Because STR seems to come from all types of buffs depending on group setups I opted to go down the WIS with a earth shattering 20 AA's. However after reading over this thread and biting the bullet to yeild the dinner plate on my arm for the first them I decided to try the STA build. My question, if anyone could give some quick advice is with only 20 AA's and shooting for STA 4/8/8/8 how should i distribute the points I have now? Was thinking 1 + STA 4/6/5/4 or 1 + STA 4/8/4/3. <div></div>

thisthingsucks

12-19-2006, 03:52 AM

read<div></div>

Conjourer

12-27-2006, 09:02 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Brigandy wrote: One of the best class write ups hands down. My main is a 70 Brigand and I am currently working on a 49 ranger, which I previously thought had the best writeup but this one takes it hands down. I just dusted the dirt off of my zerker now that my fury is almost 70 and I orignally wanted to build a Zerker to MA or MT in any sitiuation. Because STR seems to come from all types of buffs depending on group setups I opted to go down the WIS with a earth shattering 20 AA's. However after reading over this thread and biting the bullet to yeild the dinner plate on my arm for the first them I decided to try the STA build. My question, if anyone could give some quick advice is with only 20 AA's and shooting for STA 4/8/8/8 how should i distribute the points I have now? Was thinking 1 + STA 4/6/5/4 or 1 + STA 4/8/4/3. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> The third and fourth position of the Stam Line are the important ones....4-4-8-8 is the ideal ((If you plan to tank at all))...If you only want the dps from the line then 4-8-8 would be good too I guess...though I would feel like it was a waste of points to put so many into buckler Reversal and not get any of the avoidance that the line offers...but then I don't play my zerk as a scout, I tank and dish out DPS...

Jackula

12-30-2006, 01:39 AM

Brigandy, I don't recommend investing more than 4 points into either of the first two options. Buckler Reversal will only activate once every 30 seconds, so while it is bonus damage you can get more damage for the extra 4 points if you spend them elsewhere instead of maxing this skill at 8. Just spend the minimum you need to spend to get to the important part of the STA tree which is the third choice for dps and the 4th choice for a tanking role.Only have 20 AAs to spend and you're working on the STA line:Just want to worry about doing dps? 4-4-8, and start spending your remaining points in another tree.Plan on using your buckler to tank raid content? 4-4-8-4 and eventually get to 4-4-8-8 as you continue to earn more AAs. <div></div>

Brigandy

12-30-2006, 02:58 AM

Thank you CountJackla and Conjurer for your replies. After getting my prior one word response of "read" I immediatly assumed the Zerker boards wasnt the place for me to be. But after I got a reply email today I decided to take a peak and read both of your replies. Sadly enough, I did go 4/8/8/8 and started 2 points into the STR line. I am now approaching lvl 60 and my main role now is tanking. With that being said, if the AA merchant is back up I will respec once again and take your advice of going 4/4/8/8 and move the remaining 4+2 points to fit the role. There is alot of good informaton on this topic its just tough for me considering i have 3 t6+ toons and 2 t5+ toons and so many choices and boards to read. I hear how the zerker AA lines pre and post EOF are terrible yet theres such a difference in opinion on which lines to take for which roles. Thanks again guys for your input and I will continue to check back for further info.-Brig<div></div>

Brigandy

12-30-2006, 03:47 AM

Also the second choice in the KOS tree is a mix between INT and STR. I would assume that if ones' focus is for tanking first, dps second and your going to fully utilize the STA line, then putting points into the STR would make more since at first glance because the small increase in parry and attack speed doesnt seem to outway the melee crit, executioners wrath (which seems prime if your using a buckler at t7 plus one of the many 1h fabled axes out there) and possible even the hate gain for obvious reasons. I thought about specing 5 points into the INT line incase I wanted to yeild a 2h fabled sword (lord knows my server has a abundence of them) for the dps role. However I'm again assuming I would loose the overall dps from the buckler line and the 76% double attack. Any advice?<div></div>

Conjourer

12-30-2006, 11:02 PM

If you go Sta line then you can't get the same dps out of a 2hander as you can out of a 1hander and buckler. If you put all your points into Crits and haste (str/int), or find gear for haste and put your points into crits and dps (str/wis), or forget about raid tanking and go a full on dps role with 4-4-8 str, 4-4-8 int, 4-4-8 wis and use a 2hander you can get up too and even exceed the dps of 76% double attack. But just as the old saying goes, you can't serve two masters...you will have to choose. If you choose 2hander then place your points accordingly. The ideal is to max out crits, and get as much haste as possible with the slowest weapon you can find...slow weapons having the really big top end damage numbers...ie Vrakskis Claw Club. If you choose 1hander and Buckler then get all the points you can in Sta lines 3rd and 4th positions, and then place points in another line to maximize what ever your weak points are...The good news about this choice is you can tank raid content while still putting out huge parse numbers for dps. What ever you choose, have fun...its only a game.

Dimgl

01-19-2007, 10:57 PM

I've updated the guide for the post EOF world, removing a few errors, and updating bits and pieces of the formulas where applicable, and removing numbers where they are no longer useful due to diminishing return curves.I am also adding the following appendix on underhasting/overhasting, which I suggest most berserkers read.Synchronizing Haste and your weapon, the black hole of DPS in losing attacks:Most combat arts have a cast time of 0.5s and a recovery time of 0.5s. This suggests it is optimal to tune your auto-attack to strike in the small windows between CAs, which occur once every 1s during a standard Combat Art stream.Achieving this goal however is going to be very dependent on your weapon, but there are some general rules we can work with:1. The faster your weapon, the less haste you need to reduce it to a 1.0s window. Overhasting reduces it past 1.0s.2. The slower your weapon, the more haste you need to reduce it to a 1.0s window. Underhasting means you don't reach the 1.0s window.3. The more haste, the more damage you will do overall when not using combat-arts. Slower weapons with very high haste are superior DPS, but very high haste is difficult to reach. Faster weapons will outperform slower ones at moderate haste levels though.So we have some conflict regarding two different goals, when the goal is maximizing DPS you want to get as much haste as possible, but you also don't want to overhaste your weapon, which reduces your number of attacks during CA use. Similarly, you don't want to risk using a very slow weapon, not getting enough haste, and losing attacks in that fashion either.So we want a system where our auto-attacking works with our combat art use, not working against each other. It may be great that your combat art did 700 damage, but if it cost you 60% of your auto-attack damage over the same period, and you would've hit for 400 twice, you're losing 60% of 800 damage, or 480 damage. Suddenly your CA only net you 220 damage.How does it work? First let me point out that I am using haste%s, not haste rating. Check your own %s!Let's imagine that you use a 1.6 speed weapon, and have 75% haste. (weaponspeed/1+haste%) = attack speed = .914s. You can attack every .914s, but when using CAs you only get to attack once a second. In other words you're losing (1-.914) = 0.086s on every auto-attack. (.086/.914) = 0.094 or 9.4% of your auto-attack damage is being lost. Or, you're wasting some of your haste.The optimal hasting for a 1.6 speed weapon is 60% during combat art streams, as 1.6/1.6 = 1.What if you have less than 60% haste? How about 40%? 1.6/1.4 = 1.14.You use a CA, and don't swing, as your attack isn't cooled down. Next CA goes off, and after that you attack. You attacked once in 2 seconds instead of once in 1.14 seconds. You lost .86 seconds worth of auto-attack, or in other words you're losing .86/1.14 = 0.754 or 75.4% of your auto-attack DPS while using combat arts. Ouch! This is a pretty heavy penalty, if your CA is weak you may be LOSING DPS! Underhasting can be devastating!How about a 2.0 speed weapon? A 2.0 speed weapon does best at 100% haste, which is somewhere around 116 rating for example. 2.0/2.0 = 1. Getting that much haste can be difficult though. How about if you only have 50% haste?2.0/1.5 = 1.33s attack speeds. You will not attack after one CA, but will after the second. Again it is like you have no haste at all during CA streams. You're losing out on .67s of auto-attack for every swing, which is 33% of your auto-attack damage, ouch! Again underhasting takes a big bite out of your DPS! Similarly, should you have tremendous haste, you will lose DPS if you haste over 100% with a 2.0 speed weapon during CA streams.Finally, what about extreme weapons? For example a 2.5 speed weapon? Well, in this case it would be optimal to tune it to a 2.0s window, as you'd attack every 2 CAs. Reaching a 1.0s window is impossible with a 2.5 speed weapon. How much haste is good during CA streams? Well 2.5/1.25 = 2, so 25% haste reaches the 2.0s window. Additional haste is only going to result in lost DPS during CA use.For even slower weapons you simply have to synch them to other second interval windows. IE 3.0s, 4.0s, etc.For a real world example, I reach 88% DPS, and 78% haste alone, with 76% double attack, and I average 600-650 auto-attack dps. I use a 2.0 speed weapon. 2/1.78 = 1.12. I can only get an attack off every other CA if I stream them together because my attack speed is > 1.0. So that means .88s lost per attack, .88/1.12 = 78.5%. In other words I lose 78.5% of my auto-attack DPS for using two combat arts in a row! .785*600 = 471 DPS. Using that second combat art costs me 471 DPS, so unless it does -minimum- 471 damage, I just lost DPS by using a combat art in a stream. Even if it does more than 471 damage in a hit, I only gain that much damage -471. So a good knock for 900 really only boosted my DPS in that second by 429. This is something to be very careful of.Now, if I didn't stream the CAs together (queue them) and waited 1.12s perfectly, I could reduce my loss. But that's difficult to do. So playing carefully and timing your abilities carefully are very necessary to doing good DPS. Match your haste to your weapon where applicable, and remember it is always better to overhaste slightly than it is to underhaste slightly.<div></div>

MaNiaGG84

01-26-2007, 10:04 PM

Wow all this mathematic research mus be tie consuming, hehe <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But thank you very much for sharing, your thread is very helpful! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

Dimgl

01-27-2007, 07:43 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>MaNiaGG84 wrote:Wow all this mathematic research mus be tie consuming, hehe <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But thank you very much for sharing, your thread is very helpful! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div><hr></blockquote>First, you're welcome. I enjoy the mental exercise. Second, it's not particularly time consuming to be honest. Doing a 20+ variable multi-linear regression analysis on women's working habits between 1960 and 1975 using econometrics on the other hand... Though it is fun to reach empirical conclusions that some women produced more value by the dollar in household work than their husbands did on the market.Doing simple stuff like this is refreshing because it is straightforward, and because it is a lot more fun and interesting. Not to mention I get to use it in an interesting way.Anyways, the main reason I posted again was to let everyone know that I have copies of the important bits and pieces of information in this post. The forums are being transferred in a few days, and that means old threads are dying and becoming unstickied. I'll do my best to get the guide back up and intact shortly after the full forums are operational.</div>

RufusDeMar

01-31-2007, 11:45 PM

<DIV>Accelleration strike at rank 8 gives 38 haste..just incase you missed it in my edit of the other post.</DIV>

swimg

02-01-2007, 01:03 PM

Hmmm,lots in this thread to think about. Much of it seems to be directed to group tanking however. I'm the OT in raiding guild that has done all the KOS raid instances and is working on the EOF raid zones. I recently respeced to agility/int line to boost avoidance and belive I see a major improvement in soloing/group instances with this build, but my impression is that raid mobs in EOF are hitting me about the same amount and I'm sure they are hitting me harder. I'm clearly NOT dpsing the way I did before with the stamina line. All in all, I'm not as taken with my current specs as I'd hoped to be.Are these incorrect observations?Is there a mit at which the raid tank will see more improvement from the int/agility lines? Comments? Lets discuss the situation for raid zerks.

Dimgl

03-01-2007, 01:21 AM

So some bad news everyone: My current FAQ is almost 2.25 times larger than the new forums allow a post to be. That means I can't edit it anymore. <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I guess my post was grandfathered in. Naturally there are some updates to make regarding GU32 making ultimates cost 2 points, and 22 in a tree, but I can't make them just yet. I will consider setting up an entirely new thread in the next few days/weeks, but I really hate the idea of posting it across 5-6 posts in a thread. That really irks me when people do that. I also dislike the idea of losing the history and discussion of the thread, and find it humorous that at over 21 thousand views it is likely one of the most viewed threads on the forums. Regardless, updates will occur sooner or later, and this thread may end up fully retired, so get in any last words if you wanted.

OMFGPWNED

03-04-2007, 01:35 AM

3ofme

03-13-2007, 03:03 PM

Kemt@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>So some bad news everyone: My current FAQ is almost 2.25 times larger than the new forums allow a post to be. That means I can't edit it anymore. <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I guess my post was grandfathered in. Naturally there are some updates to make regarding GU32 making ultimates cost 2 points, and 22 in a tree, but I can't make them just yet. I will consider setting up an entirely new thread in the next few days/weeks, but I really hate the idea of posting it across 5-6 posts in a thread. That really irks me when people do that. I also dislike the idea of losing the history and discussion of the thread, and find it humorous that at over 21 thousand views it is likely one of the most viewed threads on the forums. Regardless, updates will occur sooner or later, and this thread may end up fully retired, so get in any last words if you wanted. </blockquote>That is bad news as this is a great FAQI had a question for you though, I could have sworn your initial build was 448 agi 4488 sta and 41 Int, but i see in your sig that you have str, sta, int. So my question is do you feel the Agi line isnt as good as str line? or was it your gameplay style that made you change?Vestrus 51 zerker Venekor

Dimgl

03-13-2007, 09:06 PM

A good question. The answer comes with a bit of history, though. My original build was: 4 4 8 AGI, 4 8 8 8 STA, 4 1 INT. (16 AGI 28 STA 5 INT with 1 in BW) I became the MT for a raiding Alliance, and as this was pre-EOF, mit was king. I respecced to a new build of: 4 5 8 8 STA (24 in STA) 4 4 8 8 WIS (25 in WIS) Which to be honest was not a very wise spec. I would have been better served to get 5 into INT again somehow, but I wanted a break from using Acceleration Strike. I would have respecced, but I built up my respec cost building my FAQ, and wasn't interested in blowing 10 plat on a less than 3-5% dps difference from auto-attack. I was this way until the day EOF hit. When EOF hit, some things changed. First off mit got mega-nerfed, second DPS and haste changed mechanics and became MUCH easier to get, and third EOF achievements allowed ways to spec into new options. The result was the new build: 4 4 8 STR, 4 8 8 8 STA, 4 1 INT I chose to pick up crits finally, since they were the best DPS boost to me on single targets, and as a raid tank, I care mostly about single-target. I also chose to pass over AGI this time because EOF let me keep Open Wounds up more often, reducing the utility of Cyclone. Defensively I abandoned mitigation, as it was no longer very valuable to me. I also picked back up my missed Acceleration Strike, and it was a much welcome boost to my single target DPS. Finally they changed the ultimates to cost 2 points. I dropped 2 reversal for perseverance just for more power endurance raid-tanking, bringing me to my current build of: 4 4 8 STR, 4 6 8 8 2 STA, 4 1 INT. I still toy with the idea of going further STR or INT, exchanging one for the other. I also toy with the idea of trading my crits for Cyclone and also the DEF skill in AGI, but as for right now I am satisfied. To me there are a few definites to any build I have. 4 4 8 8 STA, and 4 1 INT are pretty much the starting point to any build I'll ever take, so that leaves me 21 points to toy with elsewhere.

Feloni

05-18-2007, 11:51 AM

Kemt,Thanks for a wonderful analysis. As a new player who is just level 10 its great to know the options what lies ahead...Would it be possible for you to make a suggestion for a good solo/questing line for levelling up? Need to keep in mind that grouping might not always be possible and that raids are out of the question.Also as a new player some of the "(haste/def/parry etc etc) is easy to come by on gear" - doesnt hold true. Being broke and having no avenue to get gear other than random drops/questing.Keeping the above in mind, what would be a good build to get one to 70?Greatly appreciate your work and thank you for your help!

Dimgl

05-18-2007, 12:43 PM

<cite>Feloni wrote:</cite><blockquote>Kemt,Thanks for a wonderful analysis. As a new player who is just level 10 its great to know the options what lies ahead...Would it be possible for you to make a suggestion for a good solo/questing line for levelling up? Need to keep in mind that grouping might not always be possible and that raids are out of the question.Also as a new player some of the "(haste/def/parry etc etc) is easy to come by on gear" - doesnt hold true. Being broke and having no avenue to get gear other than random drops/questing.Keeping the above in mind, what would be a good build to get one to 70?Greatly appreciate your work and thank you for your help!</blockquote> You're welcome. Unfortunately I can't give you very good info relating to levelling and soloing, because well, I haven't levelled since the combat changes hit. Nor do I solo very much. --- As a more general note towards this thread, I am currently in consideration with a guildmate of mine who acts as a partner as far as figuring out all of the game formulas and such out. We're considering putting up an entire website (maybe like a wikipedia) to explain EQ2 game mechanics. It's a far-shot right now, but if that happens, any analysis here would simply find itself moving there, and being kept up to date for the entire community.

Dimgl

06-30-2007, 12:49 AM

Okay guys and gals, if there are any berserkerettes out there. As said before, since my guide was grandfathered in from the old forums, it is now too large to properly exist. And as a result, it is not capable of being edited. Since the achievements have change significantly since then, and they're working to change many other game mechanics, I'm going to put the the guide down, and ask a moderator to unsticky it. I'll let it die of natural causes. I will do this next week. Take any and all information from it now, before it is removed. Regarding a new guide or more up to date version: My guild (mostly my RL friends, and the main reason I play this game) and I have decided to take a break from the game, and we've been out for 3-4 weeks now. Unfortunately we play on a PVP server with lower population, and our raid alliance was hitting a brickwall, and I am the only one who still checks in and plays much at all, but I don't stick around long. As such, it is unlikely I am going to put out another updated guide anytime soon, it really isn't worth my time since until RoK I am unlikely to clock more than 20-30 hours in total in EQ2. In order to bring us back, they'll have to fix the game's itemisation (unfortunately EQ2's biggest failing.) I'd like to continue playing when RoK rolls around, so worst comes to worst I may be looking for a new guild around then. That's assuming they don't either fix EQ2 up enough to get back the interest of my friends, or another MMO doesn't interest us instead. (Though personally I am only looking forward to Darkfall, and that's far in the future.)

Keno

07-01-2007, 11:55 PM

this guide helped me much when i was starting my berserker as an alt like a year ago, i don't really know you any further as i wasn't ever active on the berserker forum, but it's always sad to see someone go (i was actually gone for 9 months, so maybe the same will happen to you when rok comes out<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) well to come to the point, i would love to start over a new aa thread (with more space ^^) sometime in the next one to two weeks if this one is gonna drop, it'd be sweet if i could reuse large parts of your guide, refine and continue it, if that is ok with you.

Grimwell

07-06-2007, 03:34 PM

Sticky removed via request. I look forward to having you back with us for RoK Kemt! You are going to miss a summer of fun, but you can visit it all when you get back. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Schmalex23

07-06-2007, 11:55 PM

grimwell i liked your old sig better