Tanking Zerkers + AA line opinions !!

[katshimoto]

<div>Hi guys, how are we all doing...   :smileyhappy:</div><div> </div><div>I've been tanking all my zerker's life and been doing fine. But i have a lil concern about our tanking ability in KoS with the AA system since the dps classes are beefed up hardcore with their AA's.</div><div>Have anyone having problem holding agro if you are not going for STR line in AA table? I mean later on when dps ppl get more AA points, their dps will keep increasing, and if we "tanking zerkers" are not going for STR line to increase our hate, will we have to face the agro holding ability here? Any suggestion on AA line rather than STR line or gro holding tip in KoS?</div><div> </div><div>I'm currently going WIS line myself though haven't reached the last ability on this line. Have anyone tried out the last ability on this line yet? I wonder if it does cancel the penalties on Juggernaut, Suppressed Rage or Wall of Rage... Im not very clear about this ability.</div><div> </div><div>Thanks and hope ya'll enjoy our zerkers cuz they ROX !!!!  :smileywink:</div>

[TheBoh]

I am working on that too, its called Demolish, but the way i understand it, it only works on Courageous Will and Unrestrained Fury line stances.  Juggernaut, Supp Raged, and Wall are buffs not really stances.<div></div>

[FightGame]

<div></div><div>The last in the wisdom line is not called demolish.....is it?  I thought it was champion or something.</div><div> </div><div>If you want to be a better tank, then the last in the Wisdom line really isn't for you.  It will only give you a little more DPS when in the defensive stance (which is where you wanna be if you are tanking, for the added mitigation).</div><div>As long as you keep your group taunt, single taunt, rescue, and insolent gibe at adept 3 or better, aggro control shouldn't be much of a problem....kinda assuming you're with a group of people that also know how to control their aggro.  I think if you have your taunts at adept 3 or better, and you loose aggro, then the little added hate in the strength line probably won't matter.</div><div>I play the tank role, so I'm maxing out +mitigation (4th step in Wisdom) and +defense (4th step in agility).  Haven't decided on the remaining 9 points...maybe also max out Belly Smash (awesome debuff / knockdown / damage) since it's a nice ability and I'll have 4 points in it already any way, and/or the first step in stamina for the extra health.  I'll also already have points in DPS (3rd in wisdom line) and frontal AOE chance (3rd in agility line), so a couple extra here and there would be cool.  I wish I could spend the remaining 9 points into something defensive, but there's no other options. </div><div>All my opinion of course.</div><p>Message Edited by FightGame on <span class="date_text">03-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:17 PM</span></p>

[infernus006]

<i>"If you want to be a better tank, then the last in the Wisdom line really isn't for you.  It will only give you a little more DPS when in the defensive stance (which is where you wanna be if you are tanking, for the added mitigation)."</i>I disagree.  As a tanking Zerker I for one am greatly looking forward to not having my offensive melee skills nerfed into the red while in my defensive stance so it will be a lot easier for me to hit yellow and orange con mobs, which is very important for keeping aggro from same-level DPS classes that don't have any of their offensive skills nerfed and in the case of scouts and other fighters that I am tanking for, will have them increased well beyond their max by their offensive stances.  And you also have to consider the fact that you will no longer have the defensive penalty on your offensive stance either, making it a much more viable option to use while tanking.<i>"As long as you keep your group taunt, single taunt, rescue, and insolent gibe at adept 3 or better, aggro control shouldn't be much of a problem..."</i>That may be true when you are higher level than the DPS classes in your group and/or are tanking green or blue con mobs but when you are tanking yellow and orange con mobs for same-level or higher DPS classes it can become quite a challenge, especially with your defensive stance on, believe me.  Having the offensive penalties removed from your defensive stance is IMO a very powerful thing.  It will also help a great deal while soloing and dueling with either stance on.  Well worth the 8 points if you ask me.<i>"kinda assuming you're with a group of people that also know how to control their aggro."</i>That's another thing, you can't always count on the abilities of the DPS people you group with to be able to control their aggro properly, at least not in random pickup groups.  If you're in a large guild with a lot of people who know you very well you may not have to worry about that problem as much as I do, but being in a small guild with only a few high levels that aren't always online at the same time I am I find myself going LFG a lot to get in groups for instances and things.  So I see that having a little extra ability to keep aggro regardless of what the other people in my group are doing will be a great benefit to me.  And once I get this ability I'm sure that I will find myself using my offensive stance a lot more than I do now to do even more damage while I am tanking.<i>"I think if you have your taunts at adept 3 or better, and you loose aggro, then the little added hate in the strength line probably won't matter."</i>I think if you maxed out that ability with all 8 points it would make a huge difference in most situations.  It's unfortunate though you have to go with the STR line that literally has no defensive options in it to get that extra hate bonus.  At least I will be getting a considerable bonus to my DPS from the WIS line as well as the extra mitigation and a couple of nice AOE abilities from the AGI line as well as the extra avoidance from it.  I prefer to have a good balance of defensive and offensive traits rather than going all out one way or the other.<div></div>

[FightGame]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p>Pretty much why I said it was all my opinion.  Didn't want to come off like it was all fact and the same for everyone, otherwise someone would come and pick my post apart and tell me why each thing I said is wrong....wait that happened any way.</p><p>I'm level 70 now, and planned my points around knowing that I will be.  Therefore, as far as not being able to hit the mobs as well, to hold aggro....well if we are fighting a high enough level mob that I won't be able to hit it as well, then everyoone in the group/raid will have the same problem, or worse, because they may be lower than level 70.  Personally, I don't have a problem holding aggro.  I typically group with guildies, that know how to play their toon and know when they should be trying things, and when they shouldn't, to avoid pulling aggro.  Sometimes I'm in pick up groups, and it's usually still not a problem for me, but occasionally someone will get one shotted, and as far as I'm concerned, as long as it's not a healer, so the group don't wipe...then oh well...it's just a death for them...maybe they'll learn something from it...maybe they should give me 2 seconds to taunt and get some aggro before the try to ice comet.  I have all but newest taunt at adept3 or master, and for the occasion I loose aggro and a regular taunt don't get it back, that's what rescue is for.  That's what insolent gibe is for...especially on the multi-mob encounters.</p><p>All I'm saying, as far as aggro is concerned, is that if you know how to play your character, you have upgraded your taunts, and you play with others that know their character (I think this will include the majority of us), the extra hate in strength line is NOT needed.  Neither will the little more DPS you'll get with finishing the wisdom line.</p><p><strong>Dude why don't you just give your opinions, and describe your experiences on stuff, WITHOUT quoting others</strong>, and trying to make it like these other people don't know anything.  This is the reason all these threads get going back and forth on a bunch of worthless crap for everyone coming here for some real info.  You make it personal.  I've read some of your posts, and most of the time, it seems you really know what you're talking about.  You seem pretty knowledgeable about the game, and people may respect that, and come to you for advice.  But, nobody wants to come here and see your posts, and how you tear apart people opinions.  You shouldn't argue with someone's opinion.  If someone came here and was claiming something as a fact, and you know it isn't, then by all means, set them straight.  Just makes you look like an instigator, and a know it all - when really you are not.</p><p> </p><p>These are MY OPINIONS and I encourage everyone to pick the points and play the game they want to.  If you've read my posts, and you know how I play, and your play style is similar to mine, then maybe listening to me will help you.  If you do happen to have a problem holding aggro, then get more hate, however you can.  Do whatever you have to do, to better YOUR character, and YOUR game, whatever that game may be.  For example, if you feel you need another ability when you have your spear equipped, I highly suggest putting 8 points in the second step of agility.  lol</p><p>Message Edited by FightGame on <span class="date_text">03-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:51 PM</span></p>

[infernus006]

<div></div>Wow dude you need to relax, I was just offering my options on some of the comments you made.  You are taking things way out of context.  I don't need people telling me how to make my posts.  If you don't like them then don't read them.  It's really that simple.  I am really not sure why you are so getting so offended either, I did not say one bad thing about you or any your opinions.  If I did not include the quotes that prompted my responses then my posts would not make any sense at all.  I quoted some of your sentences because I had specific comments to make about the issues they touched on.  And there is no need to get upset just because someone disagrees with some of your opinions.  You know that crap is getting really old around here and IMO people need to stop being such babies and grow up and quit throwing tantrums just becuase someone disagrees with them about something.<i>"All I'm saying, as far as aggro is concerned, is that if you know how to play your character, you have upgraded your taunts, and you play with others that know their character (I think this will include the majority of us), the extra hate in strength line is NOT needed."</i>It may not actually be needed for you to do your job but that is not the point.  The point is that it would make your job easier.  Keep in mind that none of these AA's are supposed to be requirements in order to be able to perform your basic fuction in a group to a satisfactory level.  They are just meant to give you an extra edge in certain areas.<i>"trying to make it like these other people don't know anything"</i>You are making fasle assumptions about me and my intentions here.  I did not say or imply in any way that you did not know anything.  Just because someone quotes you and makes a reply that you don't happen to agree with does not mean they are attacking you.  So now you are attacking me over nothing.  Then you wonder why huge arguements get started.<i>"You make it personal."</i>No, sir, YOU are the one making it personal here.  I did not make one personal comment to you whatsoever in any of my previous posts.  You are percieving personal attacks where they do not exist and then proceeding to make personal attacks against me for no reason.<i>"Nobody wants to come here and see your posts, and how you tear apart people comments, suggestions, opinions, whatever."</i>Well maybe no one wants to come here and see any of your posts either.  What makes yours so much more special than mine anyway?  I really have no freaking idea [Removed for Content] you are going on about.  This is how I make my posts.  I read other peoples comments and then I will quote them if I want to make a reply to a specific thing they said.  Oftentimes I will quote people when I am in total agreeance with them.  Does that bother you as well?  But of course I guess you never bothered to notice that, you only get mad when I disagree with someone.  That makes no sense at all.  You really are getting all mad over nothing.<div></div><p>Message Edited by infernus006 on <span class="date_text">03-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:51 PM</span></p>

[Ep]

<div>I thought long and hard, and posted my comments on the last line of Wis(5th rank) and for a tanking MT raid zerker it's a waste. really at master1 def stance it does neg 17 to crush/s/p. It's not a detriment, if your lvl 70 you'll just taunt. Also if your raiding, and your MT, unless you have serious recruitment issues you'll have at least a dirge or a coercer in your MT group, and if your desperate a swash. So imo wasting 8aa's that could otherwise beef up other lines, isn't the way i would want to go.</div><div>I had originally thought i'd use the last rank in wis(5th rank) during my exp groups really, In exp groups i main 2hand offensive tank, if it mobs are too high then i switich to def stance, but i choose to be in off stance most my time. However being that with normal T7 KOS drops i'm getting like 20 +def without even trying, i figure thats about a good indication as any to just forgo 5th rank WIS.</div><div> </div><div>my tanking aa's atm are going to be</div><div>wis 4/4/8/8</div><div>sta 4/4/8/8 i'm interested in all these buckler sta posts, and i want to see for myself, if it's a big load of fooey, then instead of sta i'll just go agi 4/4/8/8</div>

[atjtennis]

<div></div><div></div><p>atm I"m 4/4/4/4 in the agi line with 5 points in the firt stamina box....doing that until I get th 8 points I need for the last box of the agi line then respecing and getting it then Ithink I'm going to go down the line wisom line and do either 4/4/4/8/0 and 5 points in the first stamina line or 4/4/4/5 and 8 points in the first stamina line.</p><p> </p><p>The last ability in the wisdom line is nice it nor any of the other lines besdies agility really screams to me as something that 1 MUST have</p><p>Message Edited by atjtennis on <span class="date_text">03-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:22 PM</span></p>

[-Aonein-]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>katshimoto wrote:<div>Hi guys, how are we all doing...   :smileyhappy:</div><div> </div><div>I've been tanking all my zerker's life and been doing fine. But i have a lil concern about our tanking ability in KoS with the AA system since the dps classes are beefed up hardcore with their AA's.</div><div>Have anyone having problem holding agro if you are not going for STR line in AA table? I mean later on when dps ppl get more AA points, their dps will keep increasing, and if we "tanking zerkers" are not going for STR line to increase our hate, will we have to face the agro holding ability here? Any suggestion on AA line rather than STR line or gro holding tip in KoS?</div><div> </div><div>I'm currently going WIS line myself though haven't reached the last ability on this line. Have anyone tried out the last ability on this line yet? I wonder if it does cancel the penalties on Juggernaut, Suppressed Rage or Wall of Rage... Im not very clear about this ability.</div><div> </div><div>Thanks and hope ya'll enjoy our zerkers cuz they ROX !!!!  :smileywink:</div><hr></blockquote><p>If i was building my Zerker around nothing but tanking 100%, id go the WIS line to Unshakeable and put 8 points in that, then move over to the INT line and go for Parry 8 points and the final ability which increases cast times by 6% and decreases reuse times by 30%.</p><p>So look at it like this:</p><ul><li>312 Mitigation</li><li>16.8 Parry</li><li>6% faster casting timers and 30% faster reuse timers</li></ul><p>The benefit you get out of the faster reuse timers far outweighs the minor improvement i doubt you will even notice from the final ability in WIS line.</p><p>Me myself is going this path:</p><ul><li>8 ranks in Weapon Expertise for 22% chance to crit</li><li>8 ranks in Executioner's Anger for 10% more hate gain</li><li>Final Ability in INT line which is Relentless Assault.</li></ul><p>Why the Weapon Expertise? Because i get 10% more hate gain and with a high dmg rating weapon and my chance to crit being somewhat rather high i increase my ability to control agro, not to mention when im not tanking i can do some nice DPS.</p><p>Why the Executioner's Anger? If you havent noticed it by now, we cant hold agro as good as a Paladin or a Guardian, especially if the Guardian knows his class well, so in doing so im increasing the amount of agro control i can do and there fore letting my group that much more balls to the wall when it comes to DPS.</p><p>Why the Relentless Assault? Because it fits in well with our Berserker class, faster reuse timers on my Tank abilitys makes me tank better, faster reuse timers on my taunts makes me hold agro better and faster reuse timers on my DPS abilotys makes me do more damage, so its a win / win situation. Tie this into the fact that i got a 22% chance to crit plus 10% more hate gain, its a perfect set up for versatility, the rest comes down to your healers letting you stay alive.</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class="date_text">03-22-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:46 PM</span></p>

[infernus006]

Well you guys can think what you want but personally I have always felt at least somewhat hindered by the penalties on my stances and I can't wait to get rid of them once and for all.  I agree the last abillity in the INT line is very nice but I am not willing to waste 4 of my points to get the initial 16 points of INT or whatever that I would have to get in order to reach that ability.  I am going with WIS and AGI so that none of my points will be wasted on anything that doesn't help me at all.<div></div>

[KhayosAD]

<div></div><p>I was looking at the top WIS item too but then I thought "When am I going to be in a situation where the penalties really hurt me?"</p><p>I don't really solo, therefore I'm either a group/raid tank or a group/raid DPS</p><p>When I'm tanking, I don't need to hit (as much)</p><p>When I'm DPSing, I don't care about getting hit</p><p>For me, I didn't see the benefit.  I'm going all the way in the INT line for the timer reducer.</p>

[infernus006]

Well I look at it this way, the way I am going I will get more mitigation, resists, avoidance, health, and dps.  To each their own <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Mjollnyr]

<div></div>This is where i'm really impressed with SoE.In almost every situation where they add tree's and 'builds' there is always one build that is the best and the vast majority go that way.So far, everyone has a slightly difference build.  Hats off!<hr size="2" width="100%">Personally:I'm either going:<ul><li><u>Build#1</u>:</li><ul><li>Agi: 4/4/5/4/8</li></ul><ul><li>Sta: 4/4/8/8/0</li></ul></ul>or<ul><li><u>Build#2</u>:</li><ul><li>Agi: 4/4/8/5/8</li></ul><ul><li>Int: 4/4/4/8/0</li></ul></ul>I am/was a mitigation hoe.  Recently i've seen the advantages of having a sprinkle of avoidance.  I feel we get a viable amount of mitigation from straight gear.  With fully fabled gear, i think it wont be that difficult to hit the 6k mitigation cap (vs lvl70s) in a reasonable group.  So using my "bonus" stuff on avoidance seems a decent idea.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Mjollnyr on <span class="date_text">03-22-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:06 PM</span></p>

[uux]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>infernus006 wrote:Well you guys can think what you want but personally I have always felt at least somewhat hindered by the penalties on my stances and I can't wait to get rid of them once and for all.  I agree the last abillity in the INT line is very nice but I am not willing to waste 4 of my points to get the initial 16 points of INT or whatever that I would have to get in order to reach that ability.  I am going with WIS and AGI so that none of my points will be wasted on anything that doesn't help me at all.<div></div><hr></blockquote>You're not alone in wanting the penalties removed from our stances.  I'm going this route as well.  For the most part, it's not for extra DPS when using the defensive stance.  It's actually appealing to me for our stuns, knockbacks, and debuffs.  These abilities assist us in taking less damage and I have found the penalties on the defensive stance to greatly reduce the chance of these abilities working reliably.  I also view the lack of a penalty on the offensive stance as avoidance gained back.  I do not know how that compares to the added avoidance from the AGI, STA,  or INT lines offhand, but if I chose to go down those paths then it's just an even bigger bonus.I was interested in the INT line for a while as well.   The extra haste from Acceleration Strike (think that's the name; usuable almost every fight), the passive haste, and the bonus to parry seem decent enough.  It's the final ability that started to make me question it.  The ability is still red to me and I don't know if what is displayed are the final numbers.  If they are the final numbers, then 6% faster recast timers are almost a joke.   This takes only a few seconds off the reuse of our skills on long timers, and maybe a second on the quicker ones..  Our recovery timers are already less than a second, so 30% recovery timers don't mean much of anything.  I really hope that final number isn't 6%.</span></div><p>Message Edited by uux on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:43 AM</span></p>

[infernus006]

<i>"</i><span><i>For the most part, it's not for extra DPS when using the defensive stance.  It's actually appealing to me for our stuns, knockbacks, and debuffs.  These abilities assist us in taking less damage and I have found the penalties on the defensive stance to greatly reduce the chance of these abilities working reliably."</i>That is a very good point.  The extra effects on those spells do not work at all unless the DD part of it actually hits the mob first.  And don't forget that the taunt on Violent Pledge works in the same manner.  So IMO it is quite obvious to see how the removal of the offensive penalties from the defensive stance can help a great deal with one's tanking ability.  Thanks for bringing that up.</span>I can see the faster recovery timers from the final ability in the INT line being a bit useful for spells like Open Wounds, Destruction, Insolent Gibe, Vision of Madness, Unyielding Will, and Rescue and the faster casting times will help with Destruction and Bloodbath a bit.  But it's not quite worth the 8 points the ability costs to get along with the other 4 points you would have to waste on the initial INT bonus.<div></div>

[uux]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>infernus006 wrote:I can see the faster recovery timers from the final ability in the INT line being a bit useful for spells like Open Wounds, Destruction, Insolent Gibe, Vision of Madness, Unyielding Will, and Rescue and the faster casting times will help with Destruction and Bloodbath a bit.  But it's not quite worth the 8 points the ability costs to get along with the other 4 points you would have to waste on the initial INT bonus.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I originally thought the same thing with the spells like Open Wounds, etc, that are on a 3 minute timer.  6% shaved off of 3 minutes saves you 11 seconds.  You'd be able to use those abilities 11 seconds sooner than before.  If 6% is the final number, then it really isn't worth it.  Hopefully, it will be closer to 30%.</span></div>

[katshimoto]

<div>Wow, how nice..... you guys giving alot of useful opinions, ty all  :smileytongue:</div><div> </div><div>But don't you think the STR line is very critical for tanking zerkers? Think about Berrate, at first i used master1 and had a hard time holding agro...  and so i had to try master2 from bonus line, and the master2 is only 30-35 points more than master1 but it does make a huge difference somehow. So i think the % hate bonus we gain from the STR line is alot. And seriously can you guys see the dps classes will gain more and more dps when they gain more AA? What do you think....</div><div> </div><div>However, I still trying to stick with my WiS line for now see how it goes.... I hate to lose resis from wis, as well as mitigation and the penalty removal. Worst case i'd just /respec and go STR line.</div><div> </div><div>I still haven't decided what's the next one i should go for after i finish my WiS line... cuz AA's getting tougher and tougher to get. The patch update yesterday saying that there are collection/collectable books or soemthing that help getting AA xp, wonder if anyone has tried it ?</div>

[-Aonein-]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>uux wrote:<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>infernus006 wrote:Well you guys can think what you want but personally I have always felt at least somewhat hindered by the penalties on my stances and I can't wait to get rid of them once and for all.  I agree the last abillity in the INT line is very nice but I am not willing to waste 4 of my points to get the initial 16 points of INT or whatever that I would have to get in order to reach that ability.  I am going with WIS and AGI so that none of my points will be wasted on anything that doesn't help me at all.<div></div><hr></blockquote>You're not alone in wanting the penalties removed from our stances.  I'm going this route as well.  For the most part, it's not for extra DPS when using the defensive stance.  It's actually appealing to me for our stuns, knockbacks, and debuffs.  These abilities assist us in taking less damage and I have found the penalties on the defensive stance to greatly reduce the chance of these abilities working reliably.  I also view the lack of a penalty on the offensive stance as avoidance gained back.  I do not know how that compares to the added avoidance from the AGI, STA,  or INT lines offhand, but if I chose to go down those paths then it's just an even bigger bonus.I was interested in the INT line for a while as well.   The extra haste from Acceleration Strike (think that's the name; usuable almost every fight), the passive haste, and the bonus to parry seem decent enough.  It's the final ability that started to make me question it.  The ability is still red to me and I don't know if what is displayed are the final numbers.  If they are the final numbers, then 6% faster recast timers are almost a joke.   This takes only a few seconds off the reuse of our skills on long timers, and maybe a second on the quicker ones..  Our recovery timers are already less than a second, so 30% recovery timers don't mean much of anything.  I really hope that final number isn't 6%.</span></div><p>Message Edited by uux on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:43 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>The decrease we take from Defense stance doesnt effect your ability to land stuns, debuffs etc, thats why they have a resistability indication in the CA information ie: 30% harder, 10% harder etc. The only thing that effects your ability to land these are the quaility of the CA.

[-Aonein-]

<div>The 6% faster recast timer isnt what your wanting the ability for, its the 30% faster reuse timers, think about it, 30% from 3 mins is 2 mins, 30% from 1 min 30 seconds is 1 min, 30 % from 8 seconds is 5.6 seconds, now i dont know about you, but i used these times for my example for a reason :<ul><li>Rampage 3 min reuse timer</li><li>Open Wounds 3 min reuse timer</li><li>Insolent Gibe 3 min reuse timer</li><li>Demolish 1 min reuse timer</li><li>Berate 20 second reuse timer</li><li>Outrage 8 second ruse timer</li><li>Violent Pledge 10 second ruse timer</li><li>Wall of Rage 1 min reuse timer</li><li>Suppressed Rage 30 second reuse timer</li><li>Mayhem 1 min 30 seconds reuse timer</li><li>Stunning Howl 1 min reuse timer</li></ul><p>I could go on but i wont, now lets add the 30% decrease in reuse timers to these :</p><ul><li>Rampage 2 mins 6 seconds min reuse timer</li><li>Open Wounds 2mins 6 seconds min reuse timer</li><li>Insolent Gibe 2mins 6 seconds min reuse timer</li><li>Demolish 42 seconds min reuse timer</li><li>Berate 14 second reuse timer</li><li>Outrage 5.6 second ruse timer</li><li>Violent Pledge 7 second ruse timer</li><li>Wall of Rage 42 second reuse timer</li><li>Suppressed Rage 21 second reuse timer</li><li>Mayhem 1 min 3 seconds reuse timer</li><li>Stunning Howl 42 second reuse timer</li></ul><p>Now also add to this that our relic legs armor reduces Demolis yet again by another 23 seconds, bring it down to a 19 second reuse timer, now i dont know about you guys, but a 19 second reuse timer on Demolish is more then enough to make me want this ability just for that fact, not to mention it increases taunt timers, tanik abilitys timer, dps timers.</p><p>So no, not all our major abilitys are under 1 second recovery timers, we have no abilitys that are under 1 second recovery timers, we do how ever have small abilitys that are under 1 second cast timers, but again, thats not the point of the ability, the 6% cast timer increase is just fluff ontop of the 30% faster reuse timers.</p></div>

[uux]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote>-Aonein- wrote:<div>The 6% faster recast timer isnt what your wanting the ability for, its the 30% faster reuse timers, think about it, 30% from 3 mins is 2 mins, 30% from 1 min 30 seconds is 1 min, 30 % from 8 seconds is 5.6 seconds, now i dont know about you, but i used these times for my example for a reason :</div></blockquote>You are confusing recast and recovery.  You're ability to reuse the combat art is the recast timer.  Recovery is how long you have to wait before being able to use another combat art (as you are recovering).  All of a zerker's recovery timers are less than 1 second.  So a skill like Rampage with a 3 minute recast timer brings it down to 2 minutes and 49 seconds (you save 11 seconds).  Your 8 second taunt should still be 8 seconds if the time is rounded up, as it doesn't even shave 0.5 of a second off of it.Examine Rampage or Destruction and you see the following:<font face="Courier New">Target          SelfCasting         3.0 secondsRecovery        0.5 secondsRecast          3 minutesDuration        36.0 seconds<font face="Arial">Clearly, the recovery timer is less than 1 second (as are all of our combat arts).</font></font></span></div><p>Message Edited by uux on <span class="date_text">03-25-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:04 PM</span></p>

[uux]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>-Aonein- wrote:<div></div>The decrease we take from Defense stance doesnt effect your ability to land stuns, debuffs etc, thats why they have a resistability indication in the CA information ie: 30% harder, 10% harder etc. The only thing that effects your ability to land these are the quaility of the CA.<hr></blockquote>It sure does effect them.  Crush, slash, and pierce skills effect your ability to land a hit.  It's also why the Resistability is relative.  30% harder.  Harder than what?  We're not given the base.</span></div>

[-Aonein-]

<div><blockquote><hr>uux wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>-Aonein- wrote:<div></div>The decrease we take from Defense stance doesnt effect your ability to land stuns, debuffs etc, thats why they have a resistability indication in the CA information ie: 30% harder, 10% harder etc. The only thing that effects your ability to land these are the quaility of the CA.<hr></blockquote>It sure does effect them.  Crush, slash, and pierce skills effect your ability to land a hit.  It's also why the Resistability is relative.  30% harder.  Harder than what?  We're not given the base.</span></div><hr></blockquote><p>Crush Slash and Pierce skills only effect your ability to use those weapons indicated and land hits with auto attack damage, nothing else.</p><p>30% harder to be resisted then 10% easier to be resisted from Base, but Base determines what CA we are talking about here, as Apprentice I of some spells, being base of course, can be anywhere from 10% easier to 2% easier, depending on what CA we are talking about here. If it worked the way you are saying, we would never land a hit on anything above White con while in Defense stance because of the hit we take which is like 5-6 levels worth. You tired hitting a orange con mob in Offensive stance? Notice how much you miss it even though you are potentially 5-6 lvls higher when it comes to chances to hit? Notice how many <strong><u>resists</u></strong> you get compaired to <strong><u>misses</u></strong> when using CA's on orange con mobs?</p><p>As for the way the last line in INT works that reuses reuse timers, yeah you are correct, i over looked that part about recovery timers and i must say im dissapointed in realizing it, very very dissapointed, what the hell is 30% faster recovery timers going to do exactally? I mean honestly, when does a recovery timer acually come into play? We got recast timers which are triggered upon use and we have reuse timers that are half the recast timer upon resists, then we have the acual casting timer off the ability itself, so when exactally does this 0.5 recovery timer acually come into play, cause i honestly have never seen a 0.5 recovery from <strong><u>ANY</u></strong> CA i have used ever.</p><p>Personally, i like to think this is somewhat a bug, because i really dont see how 30% to recovery which i doubt anyone even know what part it plays in casting timers or casting effects, is going to help anything. As for a 6% in recast timers, lol thats just as bad as our WIS line final ability, useless.</p><p>Oh well, at this point, DPS and Mitigation, here i come.</p></div>

[uux]

<div><span><blockquote>-Aonein- wrote:<div>Crush Slash and Pierce skills only effect your ability to use those weapons indicated and land hits with auto attack damage, nothing else.<p>30% harder to be resisted then 10% easier to be resisted from Base, but Base determines what CA we are talking about here, as Apprentice I of some spells, being base of course, can be anywhere from 10% easier to 2% easier, depending on what CA we are talking about here. If it worked the way you are saying, we would never land a hit on anything above White con while in Defense stance because of the hit we take which is like 5-6 levels worth. You tired hitting a orange con mob in Offensive stance? Notice how much you miss it even though you are potentially 5-6 lvls higher when it comes to chances to hit? Notice how many <strong><u>resists</u></strong> you get compaired to <strong><u>misses</u></strong> when using CA's on orange con mobs?</p><p></p></div></blockquote><div><p>That's just it.  I land hits a LOT more in offensive stance against orange con'd mobs than in no or defensive stance.  It doesn't appear to just be autoattack.   I'll even go farther to say I have a hard time hitting yellow con'd mobs with something like Demolish or Bloodbath in my defensive stance, where as in offensive stance against the same mobs it'll land quite reliably.  I'm also not stating this is the only factor in determining if you hit or miss.  There are other factors.  However, I'm pretty certain it is playing a part.  Has anyone else noticed this?</p><p>I also realize the Resistablity is relative to a different quality of the skill.  I'm trying to point out that the base value  it is compared to is hidden to us.    So take App I as a base.   2% to 10% easier.  Again, easier than what?  It's a hidden game mechanic.  Even though we know a skill is 20% harder to resist, we still can't predict a hit or miss ratio from that value alone.  I'm sure Resistability is playing a part in the equation, but from what I've observed, it is not the only deciding factor.  Yeah, an adept 3 should be more effective at hitting the mob than an app 4.  No argument there.</p><p></p></div><blockquote><div><p>As for the way the last line in INT works that reuses reuse timers, yeah you are correct, i over looked that part about recovery timers and i must say im dissapointed in realizing it, very very dissapointed, what the hell is 30% faster recovery timers going to do exactally? I mean honestly, when does a recovery timer acually come into play? We got recast timers which are triggered upon use and we have reuse timers that are half the recast timer upon resists, then we have the acual casting timer off the ability itself, so when exactally does this 0.5 recovery timer acually come into play, cause i honestly have never seen a 0.5 recovery from <strong><u>ANY</u></strong> CA i have used ever.</p><p>Personally, i like to think this is somewhat a bug, because i really dont see how 30% to recovery which i doubt anyone even know what part it plays in casting timers or casting effects, is going to help anything. As for a 6% in recast timers, lol thats just as bad as our WIS line final ability, useless.</p><p>Oh well, at this point, DPS and Mitigation, here i come.</p></div></blockquote></span><span>I'm really not impressed with many of these abilities.   Maybe the 30% to recovery and 6% to recast on Relentless Assault is a bug in the description and the values are really swapped.  I don't see any value in the faster recovery timer for us at all.  Perhaps that is why they were so generous with giving us 30%.  <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></span></div>

[Laereneth]

<div></div><p>For those that are curious, as was I, about the difference between the defensive AA in Agi line and the parry AA in Int line, I've done the math.</p><p>1 point of Agi = +0.04 to base on avoidance</p><p>1 point of defense = +0.28 base on avoidance</p><p>1 point of parry = +0.30 parry on avoidance</p><p>So, if you hypothetically go 4/4/4/8 on Agi line, you receive +0.96 avoidance from the Agi increase and +2.28 avoidance from the defensive skill for a total of +3.20 to avoidance.</p><p>If you went 4/4/4/8 on Int line, you receive +2.40 to avoidance.</p><p>So, for defensive purposes, it seems Agi yields a greater net bonus.  I'm not sure how much difference there is between the DPS from Cyclone in Agi line and the haste from Int line.</p><p>Also, can anyone tell me if the Cyclone will hit mezzed mobs when it goes off?</p>

[katshimoto]

<div></div>Cmon guys, what about STR line....  if you lose agro, the raid will go down and so will u...   10% hate is alot

[uux]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>katshimoto wrote:<div></div>Cmon guys, what about STR line....  if you lose agro, the raid will go down and so will u...   10% hate is alot<hr></blockquote>Given the example situation of a raid,  a main tank tends to have classes not only buffing their hate significantly higher, but also have other players reducing the hate of the DPS classes.   It is also a double edged sword.   If you find you sometimes that you are not one of the main tanks on a raid and part of the DPS or buff bots,  you have to hold back slightly more to prevent pulling aggro.</span></div>

[KhayosAD]

<div></div><p>my role in raids used to be to buff the DPS group and go all out from there; now I find myself in more of an OT role.  Therefore, I've revised where I'm going a bit.</p><p>I've decided to get the top skills in both INT and AGI.  The slight speed increase to recasting in the INT line proves useful over the duration of a fight and when I need to spam taunts.  As for AGI (haven't gotten yet) might help give the healers time to adjust to me if the MT goes down.</p><p> </p>

[Laereneth]

<div></div>I, personally, have not had any agro issues, in groups or on raids.  But if you find that being a problem for you, then yes, it is a viable choice.

[Ep]

aggro should never be a problem in raids, even without the right classes you have other classes to make up for it, for MT/OT a dirge or coercer will set you right, if your really desperate or if your in OT group then even a swash or assasin is a viable option, add to that a troub or 2 and a pally or 2 to sipon hate, then aggro on raids is not a problem, mem blur's can be easily handled with timing and MT/OT options.<div></div>

[FightGame]

<DIV>When tanking, I don't have much of a problem holding aggro either.  My 2 regular taunts are adept 3.  My "always on" self buff, that procs hate, is in master.  My other CA that does damage, and taunts, is in adept 3 (or master..can't remember).  If I happen to lose aggro, which isn't often, that's what rescue master is for.  Also have Insolent Gibe in adept 3, and cast that about 1/2 way through every big encounter (then tell the raid/group to go crazy!).  I'm using HO's that end in a taunt constantly.</DIV> <DIV>Key is to get your taunt spells in adept 3 or better, and play with people who know how to control their anger.  Communication with your raid/group is key.  If they hold off on the max damage until you have some good hate built up, you'll be fine.  If you have this, then spending all the points in strength line isn't necessary (if at all).  I think rather than spending 8+ points to get 10% more hate, if you were to spend this amount of points on anything to do more damage, you could generate just as much hate (and kill faster too).</DIV> <DIV>But don't do this because this is what works for others.  That's the whole point of these points...to be able to spend them where YOU want/need them.  Do what would better you character.</DIV>

[Tasi3989]

<DIV>Wisdom final ability useless?</DIV>

[Ep]

i see no point in 5th wis rank for tanking, the 16pts of crush/s/p you loose won't help you tank any better, true, you'd hit more to do a bit more dps and a little bit more aggro, but in a raid situation that isn't going to matter, a % hate xfer will matter more. And in group situation the lose isn't great, since it'll effect hate over time and since group mobs die fast, that isn't a factor really.<div></div>

[PlasticL]

I wonder why I havent seen anyone mention taking the first in the WIS line to 8. With all this talk of raid tanking its funny how much you all seem to overlook the resist bouns of +7 WIS per point spent.

[Ardsheal]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><SPAN> <DIV> <P> </P> <P>I also realize the Resistablity is relative to a different quality of the skill.  I'm trying to point out that the base value  it is compared to is hidden to us.    So take App I as a base.   2% to 10% easier.  Again, easier than what?  It's a hidden game mechanic.  Even though we know a skill is 20% harder to resist, we still can't predict a hit or miss ratio from that value alone.  I'm sure Resistability is playing a part in the equation, but from what I've observed, it is not the only deciding factor.  Yeah, an adept 3 should be more effective at hitting the mob than an app 4.  No argument there.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff99>I was gonna offer an idea, but after thinking about it...yeah, yer right.  Is it based of a 100% chance percentile?  And if so, is it a 5050 to resist/not resist?  SO if thats it, then 30% harder would mean the mob would have only a 20% chance to resist it, and at 10% easier, the mob would have a 60% chance?  And then what about innate resists?  Sure, my ball of fire might be master 2 and 30% harder to resist, but against that fire drake....well....my app1 ice spell might do better damage....  Some kinda table would be nice.</FONT></P> <P><BR></P></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> <P>As for the way the last line in INT works that reuses reuse timers, yeah you are correct, i over looked that part about recovery timers and i must say im dissapointed in realizing it, very very dissapointed, what the hell is 30% faster recovery timers going to do exactally? I mean honestly, when does a recovery timer acually come into play? We got recast timers which are triggered upon use and we have reuse timers that are half the recast timer upon resists, then we have the acual casting timer off the ability itself, so when exactally does this 0.5 recovery timer acually come into play, cause i honestly have never seen a 0.5 recovery from <STRONG><U>ANY</U></STRONG> CA i have used ever.</P> <P>Its that .5 seconds all your abilities are greyed out.  That is when you are "recovering".  I haven't played a class where recovery was a gameplay-defining mechanic.</P> <P>Personally, i like to think this is somewhat a bug, because i really dont see how 30% to recovery which i doubt anyone even know what part it plays in casting timers or casting effects, is going to help anything. As for a 6% in recast timers, lol thats just as bad as our WIS line final ability, useless.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffffcc>30% off recovery timer is like using a 10% coupon to buy a $0.30 pack of gum.  You save 3 pennies....did that help your day?  And every encounter is akin to a new day with your 10% discount coupon and and empty pack of gum.  :smileysad:  8 points in int ultimate is a waste.  I do, however, think the sta ultimate is gonna be great <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></P> <P>Oh well, at this point, DPS and Mitigation, here i come.</P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN><SPAN><BR></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><p>Message Edited by Ardsheal on <span class=date_text>04-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:15 AM</span>

[Araghone]

<div></div>at first i'm from germany, so please don't kill me for my typos and grammer^^ second; thank you for the good discussions about zerkers AA choices for me, playing as a tank in a small guild, i prefered a balanced AA-build based on effectiveness of the powerfull passive AA's.  i tank in guild groups, pick-up-groups and alliance-raids. guild mates know my tanking style and i know her skills so i do not mention anything jumping in a group of heroic yellow-conned mobs 'cause i know the guild mates do their job so as i do. in pick-up-groups at first i check up the potential of the healer^^ an the power of the dd's. in alliance raids i start up carefully the setup for the MT group getting mostly buffers that cap my stats and resis. so for all the three cases above, for me the following build is that one who did the best job for now                     1 STR AGI STA WIS INT SUM    4      0      0    4      4    (13)    4      0      0    4      4    (25)    4      0      0    4      4    (37)    5      0      0    5      4    (50)    0      0      0    0      0    (50) i do not want discuss the motivation why dropping completely the AGI & STA lines, but looking alt the last two points spend i get all i want, faster recovery timer and the remove of stance penalties and it works nice for me as an intermediate zerker. at least i thing, SOE will bring an extension of the AA-tree in further upcoming Add-Ons, so don't worry about wrong builds or false templates, EQ2 is not WoW and it makes quite a diffrence what kind of player is sitting in front of the screen^^ <div></div><p>Message Edited by Araghone on <span class=date_text>04-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:45 AM</span>

[FightGame]

<DIV>Ok, I won't knock ya for your grammer or typos.  But your math is wrong.</DIV> <DIV>Looks to me like you've spent 51 points, which is not possible.</DIV> <DIV>And you say you're getting everything you want with fast recovery timers and removal of stances, but according to what you have shown, you have zero points in those 2 places (final ability in wisdom and intelligence), and you'd need 16 more points to do that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, to do everything you have shown with the numbers, in addition to getting those abilities you want, you'd need 67 points.  We only get 50.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm confused.</DIV>

[Araghone]

I'm confused too <span>:smileysurprised: not only i've realy spent 51 points in the suggestet table, i have also ignored the fact that for enable the fifth-row leave i need 8 points, so shame on me an forget about my post... no i must respec^^ </span><div></div>

[shealee]

<P>I played with the AA points for my zerker for a while and spent some money to respec.  For me, I am 95% tank(raid/group) and 5% dps.  This is the way I figured would be most beneficial to what I was after.  </P> <P>AGI - 5/4/4/8/0</P> <P>STA - 8/0/0/0/0</P> <P>WIS - 4/4/4/8/0</P> <P>Sangre</P> <P>5th Level 70 Zerker on Befallen</P><p>Message Edited by shealee on <span class=date_text>04-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:29 AM</span>

[Terrifyer]

<DIV>I've already gone down the WIS path (I'm mostly used at a group tank, which is, if I'm being honest, where I excel - I hate being raid MT, too much pressure IMHO <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) and in that role it is great, I can tank in offensive in any zone in the game bar HOF, where thanks to that evil debuff, I need every scrap of mitigation going. I can see why raid MT's might go for a slightly different build but I'm in a position where I will be backup tank if anything, so yeah WIS = win</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am gonna go down STR next, just for the increased crit chances, gonna max out hate gain, hadn't really had any thoughts about what to do with the rest of the points, might go for raw stamina, might go for raw agility, might go for extra mitigation along the wis line....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Have to say the only aggro issues I get are with Brigands (FFS! How much hate can you generate from one debuffing CA?) and when wizzies get over enthusiastic with Fusion and don't give me a heads up, but you can never have too much hate <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Artalis the Elder]

<DIV>Remember that Int affects proc damage and boy do we proc a lot. I found that most of my haste was wasted in the Int line as I ended up over the 100% attack speed cap too often.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That being said I respec'ed  to the wisdom line and have been very happy with the results.  In the wis line nothing is usually wasted. I may even go back and max out the Wis stat bonus.</DIV>

[BradO 1812]

<DIV>First off, I'm NOT a T7 raid tank, I can handle T5/T6 to help guildies, but haven't raided T7 so this is what i went for since most of my tanking in T7 is group based</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wisdom all the way to the bottom</DIV> <DIV>Intelligence to the second last one, didn't like the bottom one there, waste of 8 points.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then I maxed out the parry in INT and the mitigation in WIS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can't remember where the last point went though <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This build gets me close to 60% mitigation and avoidance in defensive stance SOLOING when i'm using a shield and I can still hit stuff quite nicely.  Very important when you're trying to 'Zerker Mez' mobs with the stun/interrupt chain we have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Was looking at the hate gain in the strength line, decided that the DPS in Wisdom and Haste in Intelligence were good enough to not need that one.  Admittedly I lose a bit of the Haste when I tank with Hammer and Shield but the mitigation debuff for 1100ish from four points in Bellysmash counts for a bit more damage hate, unless i'm in  a scout heavy group..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[PlasticL]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Artalis the Elder wrote:<BR> <DIV>Remember that Int affects proc damage and boy do we proc a lot. I found that most of my haste was wasted in the Int line as I ended up over the 100% attack speed cap too often.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That being said I respec'ed  to the wisdom line and have been very happy with the results.  In the wis line nothing is usually wasted. I may even go back and max out the Wis stat bonus.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Could elaborate on exactly what skill procs INT effects?

[uux]

<div><blockquote><hr>PlasticLSD wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Artalis the Elder wrote: <div>Remember that Int affects proc damage and boy do we proc a lot. I found that most of my haste was wasted in the Int line as I ended up over the 100% attack speed cap too often.</div> <div> </div> <div>That being said I respec'ed  to the wisdom line and have been very happy with the results.  In the wis line nothing is usually wasted. I may even go back and max out the Wis stat bonus.</div> <hr> </blockquote>Could elaborate on exactly what skill procs INT effects?<hr></blockquote>It usually effects non-melee based procs (magic, heat, poison, etc).  For us, that pretty much leaves the procs on weapons.  You would have to raise INT significantly to see a vast improvement.  However, haste effects our procs more so than INT as you are hitting more often.</div>

[Artalis the Elder]

<DIV>Well according to Sony Int increases proc damage. I was under the impression (though I may be wrong here) that imbued legs, shields, weapons, our taunting defense and our offensive stance procs would all be affected, at least. Though in retrrospect I suppose the latter two might be considered melee damage and would maybe play by different rules.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as the int line goes remember that the haste cap is 100% and then look at your buffs. Once you go bezerk you get a nice haste effect and then if you have a haste item such as fbss or similar you are already sitting better than half way to the cap. Unless you are primarily a soloer I just see a lot of wasted points here especially once you get in a group. Thats why I respec'd, not because I didn't think the int line was sexy but because I saw a more effective use of my points in the wis line.</DIV>

[dremtak]

i have read most posts in this thread and skipped one or 2 but from what i see all good info but i still cant nail down my next line yet......heres my situation:first off..........im a 70 zerker was full t6 fabled going into t7 and currently have some decent t7 gear but have a ways to go........oh yeah side note.....thanks sony for lack of t7 raid content, ok back to the subject /rant offim a 5 day a week raider and mt oftenwhen the expansion came out i didnt notice many changes with holding agro but as peeps gained aa's there was a definate decline in my ability to do so..........i started off in the wisdom line..........i love the mitigation aa and my wisdom line looked like this 4/4/8 even with the dps aa increase i was still having problems holding agro and i have a decent t7 1h then once i got the other 8 to get the penalties knocked off my stances i noticed a definate change.....my single target agro was hella better.....not tottaly where i want it to be mind you but i noticed a definate improvement.but the improvement is most noticable on single target, now for multi encounters its a lil better but still a far cry short imo......i have been tabbing through targets faster to help keep agro and this has helped but still i dont feel like i got things totally in control. what im thinking is i need somthing to improve agro on multi encounters................can i hear some suggestions and some imput on that?appreciate all view points .....thanks in advance<div></div>

[uux]

<div><blockquote>dremtak wrote:when the expansion came out i didnt notice many changes with holding agro but as peeps gained aa's there was a definate decline in my ability to do so..........i started off in the wisdom line..........i love the mitigation aa and my wisdom line looked like this 4/4/8 even with the dps aa increase i was still having problems holding agro and i have a decent t7 1h then once i got the other 8 to get the penalties knocked off my stances i noticed a definate change.....my single target agro was hella better.....not tottaly where i want it to be mind you but i noticed a definate improvement.but the improvement is most noticable on single target, now for multi encounters its a lil better but still a far cry short imo......i have been tabbing through targets faster to help keep agro and this has helped but still i dont feel like i got things totally in control. what im thinking is i need somthing to improve agro on multi encounters................can i hear some suggestions and some imput on that?</blockquote>I chose to have the penalties removed on the stances as well.  I took the minimal amount of points to get it (wis: 4/4/4/4/<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  Now that I find tanking in the defensive stance viable for aggro, I wanted the closest thing to our offensive stance proc back.  4/4/8 down the agility line.  Not only is there now a higher chance to proc, the damage is based on the weapon wielded and can surpass the offensive stance proc in comparison (can still use it in addition to the stance).  With my remaining points, I will add as much haste as possible from Acceleration Strike in the INT line (yeah, this includes 4 wasted points on +int <span>:smileysad:</span>).  More haste means more chances to hit (opportunities to proc and crit).<blockquote><div></div></blockquote></div>

[Mordicus]

Well dont choose Sta cus its breoken!! Mordicus 70 Zerker Strike <div></div>

[KagnarL]

<div><blockquote><hr>uccellin19 wrote:Well dont choose Sta cus its breoken!! Mordicus 70 Zerker Strike <div></div><hr></blockquote>How many threads to you need to post this in?  And its only the final ability that is broken.  Rest of the line works.  Easiest way to have things looked at is to send in a /bug report.  And posting this once would be all right.  posting it 10+ times....annoying.</div>

[Syracus]

Hallo Berserker`s out there!Im not an Raid MT beside some expirence in that role in few guild raid and pick up raid`s. Mostly a make the group Tank for my Guild members. To be a tanking Berserker is my passion.So first in my opinion there many diffrent ways to be a better tank. ( Thanks Dimglow for his great post about Warrior AA lines).Holding agro was never a big problem against a single target.The problem for me was holding agro on multi encounter (Damm AE Nukers out there <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)So my Goal was to have better agro control on mutli encounter,better tanking ( defense ) and at least some more hate gain.So i choose for mysyelf the following AA setting4 4 8 8 in agi line4 5 8 8 in staminaand that setting make me happy.The agi line give me the better defense and a very good improvment in holding agro on multi encounter.The Stamina line gaves me the agro+ with 76 % double attack through the nice boost in dmg.I choose this one because in a hard tanking situations im mostly only autoattack (taunt,short defense buff,taunt high dmg attack taunt ...).As an pure raid mt maybe the wisdom line DPS/Mitigation might be the better choice than stamina line.MfGGronkh Berserker 70 on Valor

[Kannab]

<P>I'm personally putting my points in STR and WIS</P> <P>STR = hate gain + crits = hold agro</P> <P>WIS = mitigation + dps = defense/hold agro</P> <P>with a good group heals shall not bea problem and with scouts putting agro hate on you no one should be able to steal agro from you ever.</P>

[KagnarL]

<div><blockquote><hr>Kannabis wrote:<div></div> <p>I'm personally putting my points in STR and WIS</p> <p>STR = hate gain + crits = hold agro</p> <p>WIS = mitigation + dps = defense/hold agro</p> <p>with a good group heals shall not bea problem and with scouts putting agro hate on you no one should be able to steal agro from you ever.</p><hr></blockquote>I am doing the same thing.....STR 4 5 8 4WIS 4 4 4 8 8Is what my current thoughts are</div>

[Ep]

My first build wasstr 4/8/8/8wis 4/4/4/8Then i played around with stasta 4/8/8/8wis 4/4/4/8Overall i hold aggro better with the first build Plus raid wise i do more dps str/wis than with sta/wis (since i'm not tanking and buckler reversal isn't proc'd a big part of the dps).I've gone back to my first choice, overall i think it's personal choice really, if i had to choose, it'd be easiest to just stick it out with sta/wis as i'd never really have to worry about ANY weapon at all, i'd just need 2 good 1handers and i'm set. But personally the crazy amount of crits done was rather fun to have(especially, exe axe->berserker aoe).As i get more relic, i think i'll respect again and forgoe wis(314mit is huge, but i don't really value the aa's in this line, wis is nothing, belly smash stun won't apply, plus no class will be able to KD epics, and personally DPS is always capped for me since i'm always with a coercer) and go str/agi or str/stai'm leaning towards str/sta as the aoe in agi would just be annoying IMO, especially with a coercer GF around.<div></div>