Its really simple: As long as SOE continues to attack the berserker class, don't tank for anyone

[Arinwulf]

<DIV>Between the last set of upgrades which left the guardians so gimped and our haste buff removed and our dps decimated, and the current round of nerf the zerker,  its time to show SOE our unhappiness.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't tank, don't group, don't do anything to reinforce the meat shield role.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As long as we can solo and we are patient, other classes will feel the pain we have been dealt.  Explain it to them and they will carry our message of displeasure to the Devs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its really time the Devs got off our backs and restored some if not all of our abilities.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe if the Devs played berserkers or guardians instead of bruisers we would be spared the nerfs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[KFizzle]

<P>.........um ..... no.</P> <P> </P> <P>As unhappy as i am about things, that is totally cutting off your nose to spite your face. Do you think SOE Cares if you don't tank for a pickup group in the Sinking Sands? Or if you were going to go with your guildmates on that Silent City access quest, but instead protested and soloed in the clefts instead? No, they don't care. It's sad, but true.</P>

[einar4]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Arinwulf wrote:<BR> <DIV>Between the last set of upgrades which left the guardians so gimped and our haste buff removed and our dps decimated, and the current round of nerf the zerker,  its time to show SOE our unhappiness.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't tank, don't group, don't do anything to reinforce the meat shield role.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As long as we can solo and we are patient, other classes will feel the pain we have been dealt.  Explain it to them and they will carry our message of displeasure to the Devs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its really time the Devs got off our backs and restored some if not all of our abilities.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe if the Devs played berserkers or guardians instead of bruisers we would be spared the nerfs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> lol and do what instead? Lead cheers?  If you really are annoyed with the subclass, you should start another.  I learned that the hard way in EQ1.  Don't waste your breath on something that you want to change.  If playing class X is a pain and frustrating, ditch it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[AndyTheSlay]

<div></div>Okay, Ill go grab any other tanking class, you just kinda sit and we'll see who wins.  Thats right, everyone wins, you lose <div></div><p>Message Edited by AndyTheSlayer on <span class=date_text>11-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:32 PM</span>

[Do]

<b> lol and do what instead? Lead cheers?  If you really are annoyed with the subclass, you should start another.  I learned that the hard way in EQ1.  Don't waste your breath on something that you want to change.  If playing class X is a pain and frustrating, ditch it.</b> <div>  The only problem with this theory is.... You never know what your class will be like next month, year...etc.  The combat changes should have taught us all that. Now you need 10-12 lvl 60 chars and play the one that best fits your desired roll this month.  Wait for SoE to "rebalance/nerf" that class and change to the one that best fits your role, again. I guess SoE just doesnt get that people WANT to be attached to their chars, develop them...invest time in them and  NOT have them change month to month or  even worse, year to year. AKA Measure twice, cut once. </div> <div></div>

[scl]

What if we want to tank? What if... and this might come as a surprise to you... what if you just don't know how to play? <P> I'm my guilds MT on raids, guess what? I do just great as a Zerker. So yeah, I don't think I will stop tanking actually, because I'm pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing good at it. Oh, and our dps sucks? Yeah... right... >.> <P> Why don't you head over to the Guardian forum? They love whiners over there. <P> This forum has just become a bunch of whining babies. Here's a tip for you, learn to play the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] game.

[Buggrit]

well said scl ^^

[Khal]

<DIV>Guardians needed some help.  Some of the changes they got may be adjusted, we'll see.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Very happy with my berserkers tanking ability, agro managment and dps.  </DIV>

[infernus006]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>"Don't tank, don't group, don't do anything to reinforce the meat shield role." Hey guess what...I LIKE tanking with my zerker and I've been doing it since I first created him about 8 or 9 months ago.  It's not exactly a new concept.  So screw you!  Berserksers are an offensive plate TANK, get used to it because that's the way it always has been and always will be.  Or leave the game for all I care, good riddance!<p>Message Edited by infernus006 on <span class=date_text>11-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:30 PM</span>

[Pastorio]

<span><blockquote><hr>Arinwulf wrote:<div>Between the last set of upgrades which left the guardians so gimped and our haste buff removed and our dps decimated, and the current round of nerf the zerker,  its time to show SOE our unhappiness.  </div> <div> </div> <div>Don't tank, don't group, don't do anything to reinforce the meat shield role.</div> <div> </div> <div>As long as we can solo and we are patient, other classes will feel the pain we have been dealt.  Explain it to them and they will carry our message of displeasure to the Devs.</div> <div> </div> <div>Its really time the Devs got off our backs and restored some if not all of our abilities.</div> <div> </div> <div>Maybe if the Devs played berserkers or guardians instead of bruisers we would be spared the nerfs. </div><hr></blockquote> This message brought to you by the Qeynos Paladin's Guild, The Ashen Order, and The West Freeport Chapter of Necros Who Think They're Tanks.</span><div></div>

[Pokar]

<span>:smileysurprised: Did I miss something? Been playing a zerker since launch, what was nerfed? I play just fine solo or in groups. I always get groups too. I don't see the problem with zerkers at all. Can someone enlighten me? </span><div></div>

[-Aonein-]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Khalad wrote:<BR> <DIV>Guardians needed some help.  Some of the changes they got may be adjusted, we'll see.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Very happy with my berserkers tanking ability, agro managment and dps.  </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Totally agree with you Khalad, but i think they need to look at how we go about agro managment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its not impossible but its not exactally easier ethier where other classes have great agro control abilitys compaired to us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing with in the Fighter class that should be 100% equal is agro managment in the form of the class your playing, but no class should be better then another at agro control seeing that we are all designed to tank and tankability is weighed against damage potential, then agro managment should be equal across the board.</DIV>

[thygeson]

I don't think tank ability is weighted against damage potential any longer after cu.  It seems to me that they are now fully independent.  I think in theory tankability is supposed to be a constant across the class with variation in situational tankability. 

[Guzz_Deaths_Door_EF]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> <HR> Arinwulf wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Between the last set of upgrades which left the guardians so gimped and our haste buff removed and our dps decimated, and the current round of nerf the zerker,  its time to show SOE our unhappiness.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Don't tank, don't group, don't do anything to reinforce the meat shield role.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>As long as we can solo and we are patient, other classes will feel the pain we have been dealt.  Explain it to them and they will carry our message of displeasure to the Devs.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Its really time the Devs got off our backs and restored some if not all of our abilities.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Maybe if the Devs played berserkers or guardians instead of bruisers we would be spared the nerfs.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV><BR><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff99>I got no clue what the heck you’re talking about...... but it sounds like you want a “sit in” much like the warrior class had in EQ1, I was a warrior in EQ1 and that was much needed.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff99></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff99>We are not broken, if we play our class right, we are a very strong class, and to be honest I see my DPS as over powered</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff99></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff99>..... I wouldn’t mind if the DEV's made me stronger, but there is NO need to do that, other classes need much more DEV attention then we do, and that is my reason for posting this reply, I am a 60 berserker, and I don’t have any alts, I only play my zerker, but I do group a whole lot with others, and most are underpowered compared to me</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff99></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff99>if they fix them, maybe we do better as a class, but you guys should get OVER what we once were, before the combat changes we had a Taunt that granted us 100% agro ALL the time, and we had SO much haste that it didn’t make since, back then we were godly, and a boring unchallenging class to play, I find my self having to work now for once, I have to play smart and put every single spell I got to good use, and<SPAN>  </SPAN>I am loving every sec of raiding, grouping and soloing as a berserker....... if you want a class where you just click 2 or 3 keys and you can sit back, you are playing the WRONG class, and you need to re-roll……. </FONT></SPAN></P>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thygeson wrote:<BR> I don't think tank ability is weighted against damage potential any longer after cu.  It seems to me that they are now fully independent.  I think in theory tankability is supposed to be a constant across the class with variation in situational tankability. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Tankability sure is weighed against damage potential, look at a Bruiser compaired to a Guardian for example, sure they can tank, but when they do get hit they get hit hard. The trade of is more damage potential for a Bruiser and better tankability for a Guardian.</P> <P>Situational tanking really is not working as intended for a few reasons :</P> <OL> <LI>Spells are not always checked vs your resists sometimes resulting in full damage from a spell with maxed out 70% resist to that spells base element. The same can be said about mitigation where a Tank who has 80% maxed mitigation can still take a full damage hit here and there.</LI> <LI>Its easy for any class with the right group set up to max out 70% resists in any resist on a raid or close to 70% in a group making situational tanking pretty much useless.</LI></OL>

[Mat]

<P>YES! Everyone lets go raise SK tey are the best Tanks atm!!!!</P> <P>Well seriously I have no problem with the fix. Still able to chain pull and tank a bunch of adds under offence stance with my pair of cobalt leafblades. maybe you need to upgrade your buff skills or gears or get some good healers along? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Sasaki Koji]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Matek wrote:<BR> <P>YES! Everyone lets go raise SK tey are the best Tanks atm!!!!</P> <P>Well seriously I have no problem with the fix. Still able to chain pull and tank a bunch of adds under offence stance with my pair of cobalt leafblades. maybe you need to upgrade your buff skills or gears or get some good healers along? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <DIV>Hrhrmmmm in a good group i cant tank poets in offensive stance... its acually better since im not able to hit those djinn in defensive very often <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. All my skills, including stances, are adept III tho.. Shaman Rock btw <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> i like Defiler/Fury and Inquisitors in my groups! =D why not templar and mystic???? bah on goodies ><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Epic encounters you'll definantly want defensive stance, and some of those named heroics that hit like epics. For others, its cool to go offensive.</DIV>

[Grubbyc]

<DIV>Whatever, I never tank. I kill stuff. Sometimes other people help.</DIV>

[Styk]

<DIV>I know myself and Zerkin from NPU raid tank, im pretty sure there are others as well </DIV>

[Renzai]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Arinwulf wrote:<BR> <DIV>Between the last set of upgrades which left the guardians so gimped and our haste buff removed and our dps decimated, and the current round of nerf the zerker,  its time to show SOE our unhappiness.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't tank, don't group, don't do anything to reinforce the meat shield role.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As long as we can solo and we are patient, other classes will feel the pain we have been dealt.  Explain it to them and they will carry our message of displeasure to the Devs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its really time the Devs got off our backs and restored some if not all of our abilities.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe if the Devs played berserkers or guardians instead of bruisers we would be spared the nerfs.</DIV> <DIV><BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I take it you play a guardian? Don't they have their own boards?</DIV>

[missconstrue]

let me start by saying i am not a zerker but i have duoed with one since level one . i am a level 59 warden that duos with a level 59 zerker. we both had to adjust to all the hits we took with the combat changes. they have fixed some of the warden issues but my zerker partner is still having issues with holding aggro and  burns all her power trying to keep aggro. she is full t6 armor and has upgraded some of her spells to adept 3 and we are working on getting more of those for her.  we often group with a paladin and i have seen him hold aggro through almost every fight. i never have to work as hard to keep him healed and they wear the same armor. she can out dps him but her power is gone and then she can't do what she would like to do as a tank. i do not want anyone to get nerfed but would like to see the developers do something to make a zerkers life a little easier when it comes to holding aggro . i am also not sure why if they are wearing the same armor he takes so little damage and she takes so much. like i said i don't play either class. any suggestions from zerkers for upgrades to combat arts that you are finding make you better at holding aggro or help you to take less damage. i cast my agility buffs and wis buffs (which are supposed to help with resists and i am not sure they are that helpful which a warden issue best dealt with in an other spot) and she still takes a lot more damage than the paladin. she has a lot more trouble keeping aggro off of the dps in the group too. i have really enjoyed playing this duo this far. i just feel bad watching her struggle with keeping aggro and watching her power drop so fast trying to keep her dps up so she can hold aggro while other tanks (guardians excluded they are having their own troubles) are not having these same issues. hope i am not stepping on any zerker toes. i really enjoy my zerker partner but would like to see some help for her. level 59 warden oasis server <div></div>

[Khal]

<DIV>Raid tank most of the time.  Our guardian was slow to level, so for awile tanked in his place.  Now I am 2 on the depth chart for raids and many DOF raids 2 tanks are needed.  Really no problems raid tanking.  As for agro, we do not agro as well as a guardian.  We have to work hard to keep it, mostly with dps.  Usually before a pull i woull hit rampage and chaos, and go off on the mob(s) when they came.  Using wall of rage and subdued rage limits your dps too much to start, so i save them for later and slip them in.  Blowing that much DPS off the start will help alot.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A large part of the problem is dps.  We were doing Silent City last night, i was tanking.  We had brigands and rangers busting it getting 1000-1200 DPS on some fights.  Oddly enough 1 hand shield and tanking I would hit 400-600 at times.  Scouts doing that much dps are gonna pull agro.  The name of the game is controlled dps, it involves everyone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Will be some agro changes in today's patch.  They may not affect agro while engaged, but we'll see.  The agro changes today are mostly on inc mobs from what I have seen.  </DIV><p>Message Edited by Khalad on <span class=date_text>11-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:08 AM</span>

[infernus006]

<div></div><div></div><div></div> <div></div>"would like to see the developers do something to make a zerkers life a little easier when it comes to holding aggro . i am also not sure why if they are wearing the same armor he takes so little damage and she takes so much."no offense but i'm sure there must be something seriously wrong with your zerker friend if she is level 59 and having so much trouble with holding aggro and taking too much damage compared to a same-level pally in same-quality gear.  so i'm sorry but the problem is with your friend, not the class she plays, just so you know that.  but here's some tips...for one thing she may need to try using her defense stance instead of the offensive one...this should technically make it even harder to hold aggro though since it reduces our melee skills quite a bit and doesn't have the extra damage proc on it however i use it all time with no problem and it gives a ton of extra mitigation, defense, and parry as well as a huge increase in cold resist.  i have ad3 on it (courageous will) and all of my taunts as well except for fearsome shout which i got the master2 of.  this is very important for keeping aggro, especially while tanking in defense mode.  she should also be using taunting defense as much as possible...a lot of people don't like it because it roots you but i use it 99% of the time, it just takes a little getting used to and is well worth it imo for the extra damage and hate proc it produces.  i also have over 5k of hp, 320 str, and 3k of physical mitigation self buffed and about a 2700 point power pool if that helps you at all.  another thing, what are your friend's resists like?  they should all be over 1300 at the very least when she is by herself.  this is very important for tanking caster mobs since physical mitigation doesn't do that much against their magic-based spells...that's what resists are for.  and since you're a warden i know you have a group wis buff so definitely make sure she has that on when she's grouped with you since extra wis gives extra resists.  i know warden's also get a nice single target buff for melee skills...this can help your tank keep aggro a lot better if they are having problems with it.  avoidance is another issue...i have 245 agi and about 46% avoidance by myself.  make sure she's using vehemence for the extra agi and when she turns 60 there is an upgrade for it called guarded vehemence which at ad3 gives 65 agi.  i also use an imbued ironwood tower sheild that has 840 sheild factor which i believe helps a lot too.  and last but not least our in combat hp regen buffs...we have two of them that both stack with each other so make sure she has both of them on at all times (destructive rage and blood boil) along with infuriate, war call, and berserk cry.  i have ad3 on all of them too.  generally you want to have at least ad3 on all your buffs and taunts.  taunts used at level 60 include insolent gibe, fearsome shout, outrage, brutal pledge, taunting defense, and rescue.  rampage and open wounds are very effective dps buffs to be used against group encounters and/or adds.  chaos, wall of rage, and subdued rage are extra defense/mitigation buffs that should be used from time to time when needed.  that's all i can really think to tell you right now so i hope this helps, good luck to you both. <div> </div> <div>"As for agro, we do not agro as well as a guardian.  We have to work hard to keep it, mostly with dps."</div> <div> </div> <div>this may be generally true howerver i can tell you that i was grouped with a same-level guardian (at level 59) one night in pof who i let be the mt for a while until it became evident that he was having major problems with holding aggro and running out of power all the time so he let me take over as mt and i had no problem with it and proceeded to chain-pull the same mobs and tank all the adds we got like there was no tomarrow and everyone was happy.  so just remember it's not just your class but how you play it.  imo zerkers rule as tanks and i am confident the people i tank for won't deny that.</div><p>Message Edited by infernus006 on <span class=date_text>11-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:29 PM</span>

[danceswnymphs]

No matter what changes come our way i will always tank....i take it as a personal challenge regardless of my current nerf level to out tank the other fighter subclasses...berserker for life!

[infernus006]

<div></div>^ i totally agree.  some people just don't seem to get the fact that the zerker in eq2 was made specifically to be an uber main tank and nothing more.  this isn't a new concept that just came out with the expansion either, it is the way that soe intended this class to be from the get go.   i've been tanking with my zerker since day one on the island of refuge.  and not because i wanted to but because i was asked to.  and personally i'm quite happy with it.  i love the fact that i can tank just as well as a guardian and dish out a considerable amount of damage at the same time while doing it.  to be honest i am not truly happy in any other role than the mt.  i actually dislike grouping with other tanks that insist on being the mt and i only do it when i really need to.  this includes on raids.  i don't get the people who want our tanking abilities to be nerfed so we can have more dps and/or utility and be more like a scout.  someone on another thread even suggested that we should have a spell that reduces our aggro.  rofl.  a few others have even suggested that we lose our defense stance and the ability to use a sheild.  you know what...if i wanted to be a scout then i would have made one instead of a zerker.  take the hint.  i'm not trying to be mean but it makes me so mad because people like that obviously only chose our class because the name sounded cool to them or something like that and nothing more, not because of any of the actual abilites we get and what they are supposed to be used for.  then they get mad when it doesn't play the way they want it to and they cry for the whole class to be changed into something totally different from what it is and are basically like screw everyone else who actually enjoys playing it the way it was meant to be played and spent countless hours busting their @sses getting the skills and upgrades they needed to be good at it. <div></div><p>Message Edited by infernus006 on <span class=date_text>12-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:20 PM</span>

[Artalis the Elder]

<DIV>Relax and play the game. Berzerkers might have been more godlike before but they are still a great class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I enjoy my Zerker more than any of my toons right now. There's just something about walking into the middle of the room and laughing as I knock 12 mobs on their butts with an AOE and then proceed to tank 2 encounters without losing aggro once.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm a bit of a newb when it comes to tanking, but I've played the other classes and watched it done for a long time. Now its my turn and I'm loving it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>