Rampage Delta

[CherobylJ]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Berserker changes: <BR>- Rampage no longer has an initial cost but now costs power for each triggered attack. It now attempts a standard melee attack each time it triggers for every target in the area instead of always guaranteeing damage.</EM> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>Hrmm......</P>

[MillsFairchild]

lol.  First rampage is overpowered, then they nerf it to uselessness.  Then it was just about perfect, and now they're nerfing it again? Seriously... they need to figure out what they want from this spell. <div></div>

[Triste-Lune]

ok once more useless thanks. I was really disappointed when rampage became a 1hour recast months ago since i had my adp3 crafted the day before nerf. Now we have it once more on a 3 min timer but it was asking to much to have it stay like that now after 1 hours of testing the skill it became useless to not so so. from what i have tested the only 10 proc on the skill instead of the 36 seconds are still there so on a group encounter it will only proc 10 times on but 1 time per mob not one time per attack on the aoe like it was post revamp (still need mor test on that).The sad thing is that nothing we say will make SOE revert it to what it was on the day of DoF release.

[Chog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CherobylJoe wrote:<BR> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Berserker changes:<BR>- Rampage no longer has an initial cost but now costs power for each triggered attack. It now attempts a standard melee attack each time it triggers for every target in the area instead of always guaranteeing damage.</EM></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>Hrmm......</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Do you actually believe Rampage was going to stay as it was?  The amount of damage that skill could do was brutal.  After using it non-stop on group encounters I knew the skill was going to be adjusted.  I am sad to see it adjusted, but at least they did not fix it by increasing the timer.</DIV>

[uux]

<div></div>IMHO, it is still does impressive damage after this change.  It also seems to trigger the other procs (infuriate, war chant, offensive stance, etc).  Oddly, I think I may have seen it trigger itself.  That, or the offensive stance triggered, which in turn triggered rampage again. EDIT:  I'm going to guess that not only can it be blocked or parried (or even miss), but possibly even riposted (in which case it could be suicide).  I haven't noticed ths yet though. <div></div><p>Message Edited by uux on <span class=date_text>09-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:40 PM</span>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> uux wrote:<BR> IMHO, it is still does impressive damage after this change.  It also seems to trigger the other procs (infuriate, war chant, offensive stance, etc).  Oddly, I think I may have seen it trigger itself.  That, or the offensive stance triggered, which in turn triggered rampage again.<BR><BR>EDIT:  I'm going to guess that not only can it be blocked or parried (or even miss), but possibly even riposted (in which case it could be suicide).  I haven't noticed ths yet though.<BR> <P>Message Edited by uux on <SPAN class=date_text>09-16-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:40 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Very correct you are sir.</P> <P>Ive been parsing it all day along with DW + 2 hand set ups trying to see what ripostes more.</P> <P>With Rampage ive landed as little as 3 of the 10 procs, also i have noticed its been doing 11 procs in some cases also. Its been getting Blocked, Parried, Dodged and i have had Ripostes from it.</P> <P>The difference between DW ripostes and 2 hand ripostes is even, there is aboustely no difference, call me crazy, but before you do, download a parser and parse it with ripostes in mind, set it to display on clipboard and then recheck it in the database, there is no difference from 2 hand to DW, when i say difference i mean when you are using a 2 hand wep, you might get 1 riposte, or maybe 2, all depending how long the encounter is, but you will get the exact same with DW set up.</P> <P>I ran the tests in Sinking sands on the lvl 49 <STRONG>^^</STRONG> named mobs that pop up on the high way, and with DW pristine imbued cedar batons i have even had 0 - 2 ripostes, we duoed the mobs with myself, lvl 50 berserker not fully ebon and no masters I's or Fabled gear with a lvl 50 Templar no ebon, no Master I's. I had the same amount of ripostes with Heiro Crook 0 - 2 ripostes, and these fighters werent no 30 second fight, they lasted almost 3 mins, almost enough time to let me fire Rampage again, but never got the chance, killed them with about 20 seconds left each time.</P> <P>Also id like to point out that i have noticed primary weapon when Dual Weilding now does more then your offhand, its almost double the damage. My primary when DWing does around 90 - 100 dmg per hit while offhand is coming in at 50 - 60 dmg per hit. My guess here is there doing the same thing they did with EQlive and later on down the track you will be able to increase the dmg of your off hand by purchasing AA.</P> <P>Rampage is still pretty good though, ive no complaints about it, still works fine for me except the rare occasion where only 3 of the 10 land. In reguards to getting 11 procs lately, they may have bumped it up to 11 for the simple fact that now it can be blocked, dodged, parried and ripostes now, or could be a bug.</P>

[z2xm]

<P>I too have noticed the primary hitting more, I DW cedar crudgels and the primary is consistintly higher.  I have not had a chance to see if the old EQ1 DW rules about delay have come back though.  Anyone seen any evidance of this?</P> <P> </P> <P>And while I figured it would get changed it is really pretty stupid, how long was this skill tested in that form on beta with no changes?  Its not like the beta zerkers were not using it, and we had some excellent testers.  If it was a problem it should have been taken care of a long time ago.  Also I can't really see this as a problem anyway.  I was duoing with a necro for a long time and then we added a mystic, and in each situation every group we encountered went down so fast that even on the occasions when rampage was up it would never get in its full number of hits because stuff just died so fasat.  And yes, I used rampage before the fight, and pulled with stunning roar and then followed with either our aoe or as many insta casts as I could, no matter what I would rarely get all the procs in on yellow arrow down encounters of 3-4.  So really I think that rampage is not nearly as much of an overbalanced skill currently as some other aspects are.  I think that in general alot of outstanding work has been done on the changes, but some really blatent and obvious things got missed, which confuses me.  Oh well!  </P> <P> </P> <P>Jinos</P> <P>L'DL</P>

[Khal]

Rampage is still great, the power cost is well worth it.

[Fundi]

     If Khalad says it, then it must be true! =)

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Khalad wrote:<BR>Rampage is still great, the power cost is well worth it. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Aye its still well worth it, it only uses like half a bubble of power ( 10% ) from all 10 procs for over 1k dmg.

[MillsFairchild]

Yeah, Rampage is still awesome.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Looking at log parses from the last few days of playing, Rampage was attempting to hit anywhere from 27 - 44 times before dropping out against groups of 3 mobs.  While it did miss sometimes (ex: 16 miss out of 44 attempts) it was still doing <i>rediculous </i>damage.  Against 3 level 54 guards in Maj'Dul, Rampage (Adept I) was putting out 4,000 - 5,000 damage in about 5 seconds.  Yowsa! <div></div>

[-Aonein-]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MillsFairchild wrote:<BR>Yeah, Rampage is still awesome.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>Looking at log parses from the last few days of playing, Rampage was attempting to hit anywhere from 27 - 44 times before dropping out against groups of 3 mobs.  While it did miss sometimes (ex: 16 miss out of 44 attempts) it was still doing <I>rediculous </I>damage.  <BR><BR>Against 3 level 54 guards in Maj'Dul, Rampage (Adept I) was putting out 4,000 - 5,000 damage in about 5 seconds.  Yowsa!<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It sounds to me you are looking at your overall Rampage dmg and hits etc, because i check mine after every fight when i reset the parser for next encounter and i cant break 11 attempts, and no way has my Rampage ever done 4 - 5k damage, hell i cant even get it over 1600 damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Like i said earlier, ive even had alot of 11 attmpets and only 3 Rampaging Blows land, from you make it sound like its doing is it keeps on firing over and over and over till the duration runs out or procs a full 10 procs, which trust me, it doesnt do that.</DIV>

[MillsFairchild]

<div></div>Well, here's my log from the first 6 seconds of one fight... 44 attempts 28 landed 16 missed 4,662 damage total [Sun Sep 18 15:28:05 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin jailor for 216 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:05 2005] YOU try to slash a Coin guard with Rampaging Blow, but miss. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:05 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 207 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:05 2005] YOU try to slash a Coin guard with Rampaging Blow, but miss. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:05 2005] YOU try to slash a Coin jailor with Rampaging Blow, but miss. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:05 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 123 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:05 2005] YOU try to slash a Coin guard with Rampaging Blow, but a Coin guard ripostes. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:05 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 102 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:05 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin jailor for 184 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:05 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 213 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:05 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 225 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:05 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 169 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:06 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin jailor for 183 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:06 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 89 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:06 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 223 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:06 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 98 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:06 2005] YOU try to slash a Coin jailor with Rampaging Blow, but miss. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:06 2005] YOU try to slash a Coin guard with Rampaging Blow, but miss. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:06 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 237 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:06 2005] YOU try to slash a Coin guard with Rampaging Blow, but a Coin guard parries. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:06 2005] YOU try to slash a Coin jailor with Rampaging Blow, but miss. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:06 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 84 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:06 2005] YOU try to slash a Coin guard with Rampaging Blow, but miss. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:06 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 115 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:06 2005] YOU try to slash a Coin jailor with Rampaging Blow, but a Coin jailor parries. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:06 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 206 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:06 2005] YOU try to slash a Coin guard with Rampaging Blow, but miss. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:06 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 225 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:10 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin jailor for 88 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:10 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 181 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:10 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 140 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:10 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 94 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:11 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin jailor for 101 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:11 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 249 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:11 2005] YOU try to slash a Coin guard with Rampaging Blow, but miss. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:11 2005] YOU try to slash a Coin guard with Rampaging Blow, but miss. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:11 2005] YOU try to slash a Coin jailor with Rampaging Blow, but miss. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:11 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 232 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:11 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 157 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:11 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 154 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:11 2005] YOU try to slash a Coin jailor with Rampaging Blow, but miss. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:11 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 131 points of slashing damage. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:11 2005] YOU try to slash a Coin guard with Rampaging Blow, but miss. [Sun Sep 18 15:28:11 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Coin guard for 236 points of slashing damage. NOTE: I edited out all the crap that wasn't "Rampaging Blows" <div></div><p>Message Edited by MillsFairchild on <span class=date_text>09-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:42 PM</span>

[-Aonein-]

Not sure why, back i cant make it do that, strange.

[MillsFairchild]

I should have mentioned: In that log, Rampage did proc 11 times, but it was against a group of 4 mobs.  Hence, the 44 attempts.  The rest of my log makes that clear. Against a single mob, it will still proc 11 times... but each proc will only be damaging that one opponent. <div></div>

[-Aonein-]

<P>Realistically though you arent doing 4-5k dmg from Rampage to a single mob, so for instance a lvl 54 ^^^ with no adds, on a group of 4 mobs if you do 4k dmg that works out to be 1k dmg per mob, same as you would do on a single ^^^ mob.</P> <P>Thats how it is made, which is the reason they made Rampage a melee attack which has the chance to be Dodged, Blocked and Parried plus cost power ever proc now.</P>

[MillsFairchild]

Oh, I fully realize that.  All I'm saying is that 4,500 damage from one CA is still 4,500 damage... even if it's spread out over an encounter. <div></div>

[Sabin the Gre]

<DIV>Going to throw this in here.  If anyone thinks that rampage is useless now just send me a PM or a tell in game.  I'll give you a link to some new parses I have where I was in a group doing level 58 linked raptors (4x no up raptors) at level 51 and I was tanking.  After that you will probably figure out that the issue isn't rampage being busted, its more of a "user error." </DIV>

[Rokn]

<P>Rampage being useless, is that a joke? Because it is not a good one.</P> <P>Every 3 minutes, we have the ability to pretty much solo level 58 cyclop group encounters and such. Its basically a bonus dps skill that you can use at will when you have the 10-15% power to blow on it. It is not meant to kill the current ^^^'s it is meant to demolish the double down to ^^'s that are attached to the tripple ups. Saves a lot of time and you should go test it out again and watch it just rock mobs. </P> <P>I am not being disrespectful, I can just can not even see where that is comming from. </P> <P>Feel free to send me a tell @ /tell Guk.Roknor if you want to talk about it.</P>

[CherobylJ]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Chogar wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CherobylJoe wrote:<BR> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Berserker changes:<BR>- Rampage no longer has an initial cost but now costs power for each triggered attack. It now attempts a standard melee attack each time it triggers for every target in the area instead of always guaranteeing damage.</EM></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>Hrmm......</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Do you actually believe Rampage was going to stay as it was?  The amount of damage that skill could do was brutal.  After using it non-stop on group encounters I knew the skill was going to be adjusted.  I am sad to see it adjusted, but at least they did not fix it by increasing the timer.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Heh  get flamed for ONE WORD.  Man sometimes these boards are cesspool<BR>

[kono]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Roknor wrote: <P>Feel free to send me a tell @ /tell Guk.Roknor if you want to talk about it.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I can't wait to see how it interacts with Open Wounds now.  Those 10-11 procs may be gone in one glorious swing.  Gain one more level and let us know. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>najena.konk<BR></P>

[Dashel]

Yeah I'm really loving Rampage.  It's just about right in my opinion.  3 minute timer is perfect.  Clearly powerful but not over powered.  It is once again making me shine in the multiple mob encounters.  The more mobs the better, that's the beauty of Rampage, it scales up. <div></div>

[Pin StNeedl]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dashel wrote:<BR>Clearly powerful but not over powered. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Not overpowered?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's a log from me, as a solo level 53 Berserker attacking a group of 4 no-arrow level 54 guards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To save you adding it up, it's 24050 damage in 13 seconds... Or 1850 dps, and I do that to a group every 3 minutes and have been able to solo them like this since level 50 (but had lower dps with many more misses).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you read the log, you'll see there are 48 attempts at Rampaging Blow (45 hits, 3 misses).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's not just that Rampage does a lot of damage (9850 in this log), but that because it's a melee attack it can trigger other procs (big, slow weapon = king), such as Furious Assault procs from Unbridled Fury (5829 damage here)... (Also note I'm using an ACGF in the log for the heal proc - with an RGF the DPS is higher).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1>(1127156483)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:23 2005] You use your weapons to guard yourself.<BR>(1127156487)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:27 2005] You start on a berserker rampage.<BR>(1127156489)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:29 2005] You start fighting.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Slaughter hits a Blades guard for 234 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 188 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 247 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 234 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 216 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 276 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 177 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 233 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 229 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 303 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 268 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 193 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 268 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Slaughter hits a Blades guard for 527 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 114 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOU try to crush a Blades guard with Rampaging Blow, but miss.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOU try to crush a Blades guard with Rampaging Blow, but miss.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 184 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 307 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 193 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 281 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 247 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Slaughter hits a Blades guard for 263 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 251 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 147 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 273 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 285 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Slaughter hits a Blades guard for 314 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 163 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 151 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 250 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156491)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:31 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 273 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156492)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:32 2005] YOU hit a Blades guard for 469 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156492)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:32 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 283 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156492)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:32 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 275 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156492)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:32 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 173 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156492)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:32 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 339 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] a Blades guard hits YOU for 109 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Counterattack hits a Blades guard for 192 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 214 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 266 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 207 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 327 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] a Blades guard hits YOU for 135 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Counterattack hits a Blades guard for 150 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 266 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 311 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 118 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 169 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 198 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 237 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 147 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 257 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOU try to crush a Blades guard with Rampaging Blow, but miss.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 194 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 203 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 183 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 322 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 198 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 153 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 293 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 147 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 329 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOU heal YOURSELF for 244 hit points.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 269 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 233 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 228 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 135 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 145 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156493)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:33 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 325 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156494)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:34 2005] a Blades guard hits YOU for 101 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156494)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:34 2005] YOUR Counterattack hits a Blades guard for 148 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156494)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:34 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 122 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156494)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:34 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 236 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156494)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:34 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 272 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156494)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:34 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 233 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156494)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:34 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 229 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156494)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:34 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 204 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156494)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:34 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 273 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156494)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:34 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 197 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156494)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:34 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 288 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156494)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:34 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 197 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156494)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:34 2005] YOUR Furious Assault hits a Blades guard for 216 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156494)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:34 2005] YOUR Rampaging Blow hits a Blades guard for 117 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156494)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:34 2005] Your rampage ends.<BR>(1127156494)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:34 2005] Your attacks return to normal.<BR>(1127156494)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:34 2005] YOUR Stunning Roar hits a Blades guard for 485 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156494)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:34 2005] YOUR Stunning Roar hits a Blades guard for 457 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156494)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:34 2005] YOUR Stunning Roar hits a Blades guard for 579 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156494)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:34 2005] YOUR Stunning Roar hits a Blades guard for 484 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156495)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:35 2005] YOU hit a Blades guard for 598 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156497)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:37 2005] YOUR Berserker Assault hits a Blades guard for 321 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156497)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:37 2005] YOUR Berserker Assault hits a Blades guard for 591 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156497)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:37 2005] YOUR Berserker Assault hits a Blades guard for 354 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156497)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:37 2005] YOUR Berserker Assault hits a Blades guard for 444 points of crushing damage.<BR>(112715649<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Mon Sep 19 20:01:38 2005] Your target is too far away!  Move closer!<BR>(112715649<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Mon Sep 19 20:01:38 2005] a Blades guard tries to crush YOU, but YOU parry.<BR>(112715649<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Mon Sep 19 20:01:38 2005] a Blades guard's Wound hits YOU for 41 points of slashing damage.<BR>(112715649<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Mon Sep 19 20:01:38 2005] a Blades guard's Wound hits YOU for 42 points of slashing damage.<BR>(112715649<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Mon Sep 19 20:01:38 2005] You are wounded in battle.<BR>(1127156499)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:39 2005] a Blades guard tries to crush YOU, but misses.<BR>(1127156499)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:39 2005] YOUR Wallop hits a Blades guard for 342 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156499)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:39 2005] You have killed a Blades guard.<BR>(1127156499)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:39 2005] You stop fighting.<BR>(1127156499)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:39 2005] You gain experience!<BR>(1127156499)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:39 2005] Your faction standing with The Court of the Blades could not possibly get any worse.<BR>(1127156499)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:39 2005] A Blades guard beigns to bruise after a severe thrashing.<BR>(1127156499)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:39 2005] a Blades guard hits YOU for 124 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156499)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:39 2005] a Blades guard hits YOU for 137 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156499)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:39 2005] You start fighting.<BR>(1127156500)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:40 2005] YOUR Relentless Battering hits a Blades guard for 218 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156500)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:40 2005] Somthing inside of A Blades guard shakes loose from the relentless battering.<BR>(1127156501)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:41 2005] YOU hit a Blades guard for 564 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156501)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:41 2005] Your wound starts to close.<BR>(1127156501)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:41 2005] A Blades guard starts to feel whole again.<BR>(1127156501)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:41 2005] You have killed a Blades guard.<BR>(1127156501)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:41 2005] You stop fighting.<BR>(1127156501)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:41 2005] You gain experience!<BR>(1127156501)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:41 2005] Your faction standing with The Court of the Blades could not possibly get any worse.<BR>(1127156501)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:41 2005] Too little too late...  Your target is already dead.<BR>(1127156501)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:41 2005] a Blades guard hits YOU for 88 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156501)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:41 2005] a Blades guard hits YOU for 60 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156502)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:42 2005] You start fighting.<BR>(1127156502)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:42 2005] YOUR Vanquish hits a Blades guard for 352 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156502)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:42 2005] You have killed a Blades guard.<BR>(1127156502)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:42 2005] You stop fighting.<BR>(1127156502)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:42 2005] You gain experience!<BR>(1127156502)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:42 2005] Your faction standing with The Court of the Blades could not possibly get any worse.<BR>(1127156502)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:42 2005] A Blades guard is struck with a vanquishing blow.<BR>(1127156502)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:42 2005] A Blades guard regains their wits.<BR>(1127156503)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:43 2005] a Blades guard hits YOU for 76 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156503)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:43 2005] You start fighting.<BR>(1127156503)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:43 2005] YOUR Frenzy hits a Blades guard for 285 points of crushing damage.<BR>(1127156503)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:43 2005] You have killed a Blades guard.<BR>(1127156503)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:43 2005] You stop fighting.<BR>(1127156503)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:43 2005] You gain experience!<BR>(1127156503)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:43 2005] Your faction standing with The Court of the Blades could not possibly get any worse.<BR>(1127156503)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:43 2005] You gain bonus experience for defeating the encounter!<BR>(1127156503)[Mon Sep 19 20:01:43 2005] A Blades guard is struck by a frenzy of attacks.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It should be noted that I can solo these groups without Rampage, but it takes about 90 seconds and is a close fight if they stun more than once. So maybe you can say that Rampage isn't overpowered alone, but with the rest of our arsenal, it certainly feels like it to me (not that I don't enjoy it, of course) and I know something will be nerfed somewhere.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, I have full fabled gear, Master I's in many places, Adept3 everywhere else. Over 350 self-buffed stength (200 in sta and agi).</DIV></DIV>

[Dashel]

<span><blockquote><hr>Pin StNeedles wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Dashel wrote:Clearly powerful but not over powered. <hr> </blockquote> <div>Not overpowered?</div> <div> </div> <div>Here's a log from me, as a solo level 53 Berserker attacking a group of 4 no-arrow level 54 guards.</div> <div> </div> <div>To save you adding it up, it's 24050 damage in 13 seconds... Or 1850 dps, and I do that to a group every 3 minutes and have been able to solo them like this since level 50 (but had lower dps with many more misses).</div> <div> </div>....... <div><font size="1"> </font></div> <div><font size="1"></font> </div> <div> <div> </div> <div>It should be noted that I can solo these groups without Rampage, but it takes about 90 seconds and is a close fight if they stun more than once. So maybe you can say that Rampage isn't overpowered alone, but with the rest of our arsenal, it certainly feels like it to me (not that I don't enjoy it, of course) and I know something will be nerfed somewhere.</div> <div> </div> <div>Also, I have full fabled gear, Master I's in many places, Adept3 everywhere else. Over 350 self-buffed stength (200 in sta and agi).</div></div><hr></blockquote> So you're saying you can solo a group that you can normally defeat solo anyway, faster, with Rampage.  Yes I'd say thats "clearly powerful, but not overpowered".  Can it be tweaked, sure.  </span><div></div>

[Pin StNeedl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Dashel wrote:</P> <P><SPAN>So you're saying you can solo a group that you can normally defeat solo anyway, faster, with Rampage.  Yes I'd say thats "clearly powerful, but not overpowered".  Can it be tweaked, sure. <BR></SPAN></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Not quite. I'm saying that with Rampage, I can kill yellow-con (up to 5 levels above me) heroics in under 15seconds using under 20% power and barely getting scratched. Without Rampage, I can kill heroics up to 2 levels above me, but it takes time and I'll likely have to run if I get stunned more than once (that's solo, of course). That's a huge difference to be made with a skill on a 3min timer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, I feel that Berserkers on the whole are overpowered after the revamp (in terms of DPS, at least), but I realise that this is almost completely down to equipment and spell upgrades - upgrading skills makes such a huge difference to everything you do now (50-100% better, instead of 5-10% before the revamp), and clearly those without Adept3/Master in the (new) main spells are struggling with the changes.</DIV>

[Dashel]

<span><blockquote><hr>Pin StNeedles wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <p></p> <hr> <p>Dashel wrote:</p> <p><span>So you're saying you can solo a group that you can normally defeat solo anyway, faster, with Rampage.  Yes I'd say thats "clearly powerful, but not overpowered".  Can it be tweaked, sure. </span></p> <hr> </blockquote> <div>Not quite. I'm saying that with Rampage, I can kill yellow-con (up to 5 levels above me) heroics in under 15seconds using under 20% power and barely getting scratched. Without Rampage, I can kill heroics up to 2 levels above me, but it takes time and I'll likely have to run if I get stunned more than once (that's solo, of course). That's a huge difference to be made with a skill on a 3min timer.</div> <div> </div> <div>Personally, I feel that Berserkers on the whole are overpowered after the revamp (in terms of DPS, at least), but I realise that this is almost completely down to equipment and spell upgrades - upgrading skills makes such a huge difference to everything you do now (50-100% better, instead of 5-10% before the revamp), and clearly those without Adept3/Master in the (new) main spells are struggling with the changes.</div><hr></blockquote>Yah must be your equip because I highly doubt I could do that.  I'd also wonder if this applies only to multiple mobs, can you do this to a single yellow con heroic mob? IMO if you're running around in fabled gear with Master I/Adept III in your CA's you've earned some power in a grind setting.  Perhaps at the high end Rampage needs a bit of a tone down, I dont know as I'm in Legendary and Adept I CA's.  =) </span><div></div>

[-Aonein-]

<P>Well in that log file Rampage fired a hell of alot more then 10 times, thats the problem, its procing more then 10 times. Also i know for a fact there is no way in hell i could tank mobs 5 lvls higher then me, i cant even duo a lvl 48 <STRONG>^^^</STRONG> mobs let alone solo 4 lvl 55 mobs.</P> <P>Ive no idea how you guys are doing it, but i have purposely gone and pulled groups of mobs with 4+ mobs in them to try and produce that sceanrio and i just cant do it, most i get is 11 procs, thats it. What it looks like its doing is firing 10 times per mob, which is obviously a bug, because it should only be procing 10 times and thats it, reguardless of how many mobs.</P> <P>I just dont see how you guys are pumping so much out like you are.</P> <p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>09-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:02 AM</span>

[Pin StNeedl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dashel wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR>can you do this to a single yellow con heroic mob?<BR></SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Against the level 54^^^ the fights are completely different. They are long (can use Rampage twice), and go to the wire. They also require switching from offensive to defensive and back and you're quite reliant on the HP regen buffs.

[Dashel]

<span><blockquote><hr>Pin StNeedles wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Dashel wrote:<span>can you do this to a single yellow con heroic mob?</span> <hr> </blockquote>Against the level 54^^^ the fights are completely different. They are long (can use Rampage twice), and go to the wire. They also require switching from offensive to defensive and back and you're quite reliant on the HP regen buffs.<hr></blockquote>K so looks like you're getting 10 procs per mob.  I have not tested this at all.   Are we sure thats not how it's supposed to be?  I thought thats how it was supposed to work.  10 AE procs.  Meaning 10 procs that hit everything in the area once.  So one mob = 10 hits, 2 mobs = 20 hits.  Scales upwards. </span><div></div>

[Pin StNeedl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR> <P>Well in that log file Rampage fired a hell of alot more then 10 times, thats the problem, its procing more then 10 times. Also i know for a fact there is no way in hell i could tank mobs 5 lvls higher then me, i cant even duo a lvl 48 <STRONG>^^^</STRONG> mobs let alone solo 4 lvl 55 mobs.</P> <P>Ive no idea how you guys are doing it, but i have purposely gone and pulled groups of mobs with 4+ mobs in them to try and produce that sceanrio and i just cant do it, most i get is 11 procs, thats it. What it looks like its doing is firing 10 times per mob, which is obviously a bug, because it should only be procing 10 times and thats it, reguardless of how many mobs.</P> <P>I just dont see how you guys are pumping so much out like you are.</P> <P>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <SPAN class=date_text>09-21-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:02 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Umm... Rampage is an AOE proc buff and it always has been. Unbridled Fury is now an AOE proc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for it hitting 11 or 12 (per my log) times, I seem to get the extra proc if Furious Assault fires from the melee attack rather than the Rampaging Blow attack (I then get a rampage proc on each furious assault, and the original melee attack).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for how to do it? Well, forget about those ^^^ mobs, you're a king of AOE. Pre-cast Weapon Guard and Rampage, use Unbridled Fury and the slowest 2H weapon you have (i.e. get a great flail), run into the middle of a group encounter with Slaughter casting, follow with Stunning Roar and Berserker Assault. Take it from there.</DIV>

[XensosKinein]

<DIV>I really feel that Rampage is the Zerkers ;defining' move, and I enjoy having it. The only time I see it drop groups in a matter of seconds is when I'm using it on underfpowered mobs (i.e. blue). I think the last time anyone asid anything about Rampage being too powerful, didn't they change the timer to 60 minutes and totally hose us? I like using Rampage in it's current state, and considering that it has to roll as a melee attack, with the possibility for ripostes, I would say it's well balanced. Let's not ask for changes on rampage.</DIV>

[MillsFairchild]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>-Aonein- wrote:<div></div><p>What it looks like its doing is firing 10 times per mob, which is obviously a bug, because it should only be procing 10 times and thats it, reguardless of how many mobs.</p><hr></blockquote>I think that's what your misunderstanding.  As Pin said, "Rampage is an AOE proc buff and always has been." It procs 10 (and sometimes 11) times.  Each proc has the chance to damage the entire encounter.  It's not a bug - reread the description.  The only bug that I can see is it proc'ing 11 times every now and then instead of 10. "Rampage allows the berserker to attack all nearby enemies whenever you attack.  This effect can trigger up to 10 times." The 'effect' it's talking about is <i>attacking all nearby enemies</i>.  It's 10 effects, not 10 individual attacks. </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by MillsFairchild on <span class=date_text>09-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:56 PM</span>

[CherobylJ]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pin StNeedles wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Dashel wrote:</P> <P><SPAN>So you're saying you can solo a group that you can normally defeat solo anyway, faster, with Rampage.  Yes I'd say thats "clearly powerful, but not overpowered".  Can it be tweaked, sure. <BR></SPAN></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Not quite. I'm saying that with Rampage, I can kill yellow-con (up to 5 levels above me) heroics in under 15seconds using under 20% power and barely getting scratched. Without Rampage, I can kill heroics up to 2 levels above me, but it takes time and I'll likely have to run if I get stunned more than once (that's solo, of course). That's a huge difference to be made with a skill on a 3min timer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, I feel that Berserkers on the whole are overpowered after the revamp (in terms of DPS, at least), but I realise that this is almost completely down to equipment and spell upgrades - upgrading skills makes such a huge difference to everything you do now (50-100% better, instead of 5-10% before the revamp), and clearly those without Adept3/Master in the (new) main spells are struggling with the changes.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I agree with that...with Rampage and decent gear some pretty amazing things are possible.  Combining a rampage with a nice 12pct rate proc weapon and a creature master buff has some really overwhelming effects.<BR>

[XensosKinein]

...Of course, on the same hand, any class that has made the investment in Ad3's and Masters and decent equipment can have some pretty powerful effects. The whole point of upgrading is to become more pwerful so that you CAN solo some of the higher mobs. There isn't a single class our there that doesn't have one spell that, if they had the master (plus a few others) and good gear, would n't be able to perform better than the norm. That is the point. Don't complain about Rampage because you got the Ad3 and now you feel toopowerful.. how silly is that? Why buy the Ad3 then?

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pin StNeedles wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR> <P>Well in that log file Rampage fired a hell of alot more then 10 times, thats the problem, its procing more then 10 times. Also i know for a fact there is no way in hell i could tank mobs 5 lvls higher then me, i cant even duo a lvl 48 <STRONG>^^^</STRONG> mobs let alone solo 4 lvl 55 mobs.</P> <P>Ive no idea how you guys are doing it, but i have purposely gone and pulled groups of mobs with 4+ mobs in them to try and produce that sceanrio and i just cant do it, most i get is 11 procs, thats it. What it looks like its doing is firing 10 times per mob, which is obviously a bug, because it should only be procing 10 times and thats it, reguardless of how many mobs.</P> <P>I just dont see how you guys are pumping so much out like you are.</P> <P>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <SPAN class=date_text>09-21-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:02 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Umm... Rampage is an AOE proc buff and it always has been. Unbridled Fury is now an AOE proc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for it hitting 11 or 12 (per my log) times, I seem to get the extra proc if Furious Assault fires from the melee attack rather than the Rampaging Blow attack (I then get a rampage proc on each furious assault, and the original melee attack).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for how to do it? Well, forget about those ^^^ mobs, you're a king of AOE. Pre-cast Weapon Guard and Rampage, use Unbridled Fury and the slowest 2H weapon you have (i.e. get a great flail), run into the middle of a group encounter with Slaughter casting, follow with Stunning Roar and Berserker Assault. Take it from there.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yeah sorry i worded that wrong, but you have pointed out what i was trying to get at with the procs coming off Furious Assualt, Offending Defense, Slaughter etc etc, which shouldnt be happening.</P> <P>Im pretty sure there was meant to be a patch to fix that awhile back, you will also notice a bug when say for example your weapon has a proc and you pull with a Bow and proc the spell damage of what your Primary is.</P> <P>But yeah, dont know what i was thinking there. When you look at what other class's can do, Rampage isnt all that overpowered really, like Dash said, 1 mob = 10 procs, 2 mobs = 20 procs and so on, but keep in mind the Rampaging Blows can be Dodged, Parried and Blocked just like any other normal melee attack now, so its not like you will always get them through.</P> <P>I went and tested it on some group lvl 49 mobs ( im still lvl 50 ), and every time it was around 70% effective. meaning the other 30% was Blocked, Dodged, Parried. My gear isnt good enough to try higher lvl mobs then lvl 50, so i can only guess that as the higher the mob gets, the more its going to Block, Dodge and Parry the Rampaging Blows seeing as the higher the mob gets its harder to land Taunts on the mob and regular auto attack damage.</P> <P>After about 10 fights i compiled the data on the parser ( combat stats does it itself if you remove the date to show all for that session ) and it worked out to be around 33% effective over 10 lvl 49 - 50 group fights with 3 - 4 mobs in each group because of the amount it was Blocked, Parried and Dodged.</P> <P>One more thing Pin, i done these tests with a Herio Crook and a dual weilding set of Pristine Imbued Cedar Batons, and i can do a very good amount more dps with the DW set up then the Heiro Crook using the exact same method as you posted in the last paragraph. Most ive done with Herio Crook is 487.6 DPS and with the Batons i have gotten upto 606.1 DPS to date. I cannot get the Herio Crook to do anymore then that, no matter how hard i push that stick.</P> <P>EDIT - Im only using Rampage Apprentice I for those interested.</P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>09-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:21 AM</span>

[Pin StNeedl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR> <P>Yeah sorry i worded that wrong, but you have pointed out what i was trying to get at with the procs coming off Furious Assualt, Offending Defense, Slaughter etc etc, which shouldnt be happening.</P> <P>Im pretty sure there was meant to be a patch to fix that awhile back, you will also notice a bug when say for example your weapon has a proc and you pull with a Bow and proc the spell damage of what your Primary is.</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>The way they 'fixed' that issue was to change the procs from extra melee attacks to be direct damage. They've now partially reverted the change to make them melee attacks again, however the procs cannot chain off themselves infinitely like before, which is what they were trying to acheive with the first fix.</FONT></P> <P>One more thing Pin, i done these tests with a Herio Crook and a dual weilding set of Pristine Imbued Cedar Batons, and i can do a very good amount more dps with the DW set up then the Heiro Crook using the exact same method as you posted in the last paragraph. Most ive done with Herio Crook is 487.6 DPS and with the Batons i have gotten upto 606.1 DPS to date. I cannot get the Herio Crook to do anymore then that, no matter how hard i push that stick.</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Big, slow two-handers increase proc DPS by increasing the chance for a proc to fire on each hit. The reason you may see higher burst DPS while dual-wielding is that Rampage is a 100% chance to proc on each hit until it expires, no matter what speed, and with fast dual-wielders you'll land those 10 hits sooner.<BR>However, the other procs will have greatly reduced chances to fire, and in the long run you'll do much lower DPS (either that, or you only use auto-swing for your tests).</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Also, on groups of mobs which die almost instantly, measured DPS is virtually meaningless as killing a group 1 second faster or slower due to a lucky Fury proc will sway the figure a huge amount in either way.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>And as an aside, I measured a 2h15m session killing 57-59 heroics in a group of 4 (level 52/53). I averaged 314dps including downtime for regen between fights (420dps not including downtime) and I'm completely puzzled as to how some people can claim to not be able to break 100dps after the revamp.</FONT></P> <P>EDIT - Im only using Rampage Apprentice I for those interested.</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Does your server not have a 50 Alchemist? I cannot imagine going anywhere with App I spells on my bar, especially not ones which have such a large impact.</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV>

[Dashel]

<div></div>Just need to clear one more thing up for me if someone knows: The Rampage Proc is what exactly?  A direct damage proc that is the same for any weapon you use or anything that causes it to fire (like say an Offending Defense reactive hit or a Fury hit)?  If so I would guess damage simply scales with CA level (i.e. App1 vrs Ad3) Or is it based on your weapon equipped essentially making your one single target hit an AE attack?  In which case a heavy 2 hander is ideal I'd think. EDIT:  This is from the OP quote of the Patch Notes: <em>Rampage no longer has an initial cost but now costs power for each triggered attack. It now attempts a standard melee attack each time it triggers for every target in the area instead of always guaranteeing damage. </em>But I think that is refering to how it checks to see if the proc lands on each target? <em> </em> <div></div><p>Message Edited by Dashel on <span class=date_text>09-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:28 AM</span>

[XensosKinein]

It is a proc that deals direct damage. The only thing that affects the damage output is Quality and STR (STR affects all of our CA's). I use DW mostly when Rampaging because the hits get off a lot faster, Combined with Weapon Guard, Offending Stance, and Unbridled Fury, I throw Stunning Roar and Frenzy and I can usually pop all 10 procs of very early in the fight and then finish off with Slaughter (because the  cast time is too long to use while the Rampage timer is up) I have all Adept 1's except Offending Defense (Master2) Rampage (Adept 3) Stunning Roar (Master1). I've tried this combination with 1h's and 2h's and it doesn't work nearly as well.

[Pin StNeedl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> XensosKinein wrote:<BR>It is a proc that deals direct damage. The only thing that affects the damage output is Quality and STR (STR affects all of our CA's). I use DW mostly when Rampaging because the hits get off a lot faster, Combined with Weapon Guard, Offending Stance, and Unbridled Fury, I throw Stunning Roar and Frenzy and I can usually pop all 10 procs of very early in the fight and then finish off with Slaughter (because the  cast time is too long to use while the Rampage timer is up) I have all Adept 1's except Offending Defense (Master2) Rampage (Adept 3) Stunning Roar (Master1). I've tried this combination with 1h's and 2h's and it doesn't work nearly as well. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>The Rampage procs will fire off faster if you use fast DW weapons, but they will trigger far fewer secondary procs in that setup, causing much lower damage to be done during the rampage. Because Rampage is a fixed number of procs, giving a fixed amount of damage, burning in 2seconds or 5seconds means very little to the fight. Outputting an extra 3-5k damage from other procs during that time means a whole lot more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As your spell levels look similar to mine, compare a log of your Rampage with the one I posted above... Oh, and the main reason I open with Slaughter is because you can cast it while running into the mobs - you can't do that here with Stunning Roar as they will aggro and stun you.</DIV>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pin StNeedles wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR> <P>Yeah sorry i worded that wrong, but you have pointed out what i was trying to get at with the procs coming off Furious Assualt, Offending Defense, Slaughter etc etc, which shouldnt be happening.</P> <P>Im pretty sure there was meant to be a patch to fix that awhile back, you will also notice a bug when say for example your weapon has a proc and you pull with a Bow and proc the spell damage of what your Primary is.</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>The way they 'fixed' that issue was to change the procs from extra melee attacks to be direct damage. They've now partially reverted the change to make them melee attacks again, however the procs cannot chain off themselves infinitely like before, which is what they were trying to acheive with the first fix.</FONT></P> <P>One more thing Pin, i done these tests with a Herio Crook and a dual weilding set of Pristine Imbued Cedar Batons, and i can do a very good amount more dps with the DW set up then the Heiro Crook using the exact same method as you posted in the last paragraph. Most ive done with Herio Crook is 487.6 DPS and with the Batons i have gotten upto 606.1 DPS to date. I cannot get the Herio Crook to do anymore then that, no matter how hard i push that stick.</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Big, slow two-handers increase proc DPS by increasing the chance for a proc to fire on each hit. The reason you may see higher burst DPS while dual-wielding is that Rampage is a 100% chance to proc on each hit until it expires, no matter what speed, and with fast dual-wielders you'll land those 10 hits sooner.<BR>However, the other procs will have greatly reduced chances to fire, and in the long run you'll do much lower DPS (either that, or you only use auto-swing for your tests).</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Also, on groups of mobs which die almost instantly, measured DPS is virtually meaningless as killing a group 1 second faster or slower due to a lucky Fury proc will sway the figure a huge amount in either way.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>And as an aside, I measured a 2h15m session killing 57-59 heroics in a group of 4 (level 52/53). I averaged 314dps including downtime for regen between fights (420dps not including downtime) and I'm completely puzzled as to how some people can claim to not be able to break 100dps after the revamp.</FONT></P> <P>EDIT - Im only using Rampage Apprentice I for those interested.</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Does your server not have a 50 Alchemist? I cannot imagine going anywhere with App I spells on my bar, especially not ones which have such a large impact.</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Aye i understand how that all works, was trying to expalin exactaly what you put here in Zerker channel the other day.</P> <P>As to why i only got app 1 Rampage, ive had it for awhile just havent upgraded it yet, not sure if i want too yet. Want to see what happens with Rampage.</P>

[Pin StNeedl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR><BR> <P>As to why i only got app 1 Rampage, ive had it for awhile just havent upgraded it yet, not sure if i want too yet. Want to see what happens with Rampage.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>5-10g for an App IV is a big investment?<BR>

[-Aonein-]

<P>I dont usally invest in minor upgrades, its ethier Adept I / Adept III or Master I.</P> <P>There is currently a Master I Rampage for 6pp atm on EF server, but im not sure if i want to fork out 6pp and then see the skill get nerfed down the track.</P>

[tnefoo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR> <P>I dont usally invest in minor upgrades, its ethier Adept I / Adept III or Master I.</P> <P>There is currently a Master I Rampage for 6pp atm on EF server, but im not sure if i want to fork out 6pp and then see the skill get nerfed down the track.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Aww c'mon! Where's your sense of adventure :smileywink:

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> tnefoote wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR> <P>I dont usally invest in minor upgrades, its ethier Adept I / Adept III or Master I.</P> <P>There is currently a Master I Rampage for 6pp atm on EF server, but im not sure if i want to fork out 6pp and then see the skill get nerfed down the track.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Aww c'mon! Where's your sense of adventure :smileywink: <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well i decided to use the force and upgrade to Adept III.:smileysurprised:

[Zealbour]

<IMG src="http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/9493/zerkertopinstdps2et.jpg"> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dont get me wrong I love my rampage, but I did suspect it was facing its own death.</DIV>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zealbourne wrote:<BR><IMG src="http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/9493/zerkertopinstdps2et.jpg"> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dont get me wrong I love my rampage, but I did suspect it was facing its own death.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Huh? Facing its own death?</P> <P>I think people need to step back and look what a Wizard can do every 45 seconds over a 3 min period. Its well over 35k damage just with Ice Comet alone, not too mention what he can cast in between waiting for Ice Comet to repop, and thats on a constant basis. Then take a look at Assassins and look at what they can do in one hit on a constant basis.</P> <P>Rampage is regulated to group mobs, its situational, its only constant if you go hunt down those group mobs to make it look over powered.</P> <P>Besides all that, what lvl are these mobs?</P> <P>What they need to do is stop Rampage procing off our AoE abilitys and make it only proc off pure melee auto attack, it seems to me that there is a bug with the way its procing of our AoE's unless your parser needs to be updated.</P> <p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>09-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:57 PM</span>

[-Aonein-]

<P>One last thing, ive noticed a hell of alot of group encounters are not Heroics now, just because they have 4+ mobs in them dont make them heroic, so people need to take a closer look at what there fighting. Its not there level that makes them heroic or the amount of mobs in the group, its the amount of HP and damage out put the encounter has.</P> <P>Rampage only made up 48.48% of that fight, a little under 50% and hits percent ratio was 68% indicating it is getting Block, Dodged and Parried. You only did 4362 damage total, thats to 2 mobs, so lets say you did 2181 damage per mob by just Rampage alone, does that make a Wizard who can one shot these same mobs to death with one Nuke overpowered? No. Also, how did you manage to fire off everything you did in that fight in less then one second? Parser started parsing at 01:58:10 and ended at 01:58:10 and you managed to fire of Rampage, Slaughter, Furious Assualt and your Weapon Guard, i mean yeah you could run in with all these blazing, but there is no way the fight would last a milli second. I mean look, the mobs even got attacks off, they cant do that in a milli second. The lunatic even got a CA off.....</P> <P>What id like to start seeing is less of these Rampage are overpowered posts that are being done on solo encounters, and do some tougher mobs, like lets take group mobs out of the equation, because we all know that the game doesnt have only group encounters. Throw some lvl 55 ^^^ Heroic fights up here, or lvl 55 ^^^ Heroic group encounters, or even lvl 55 ^^ Heroic group encounters, stuff that requires 3 or more people depending on lvl.</P>

[Zealbour]

<DIV>Heh, often with you I find myself explaining what seemed simple enough to say in one sentence. I am sure / certain / 100%positive, that we Berserkers ie:Tanks,middle-lower melee damagdealers were not expected to do 8k of damage or 40+total blows in the first second of any combat(in my case the only second). Much less to 3 level 55 solo mobs. So, in conclustion I would say it was only a matter of time before rampage(much to my loss of joy) would be nerfed/corrected/lowered. Will we be able to stand up against wizards or warlocks? Foolishness, we were never meant to. Now let me know if somehow in any measure of what I wrote this time difficult to comprehend.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My Rampage like 70%+ of my skills for T5 are master. The reason I recieved all of those additional attacks is because my opening aoe have 3 chances to rampage, my stance also proced 3 more times to rampage, my melee swing proced 1 chance to rampage, and i believe i had a reactive attack for one more. Each sucessful landing proc of rampage then in turn did an aoe attack on 3 targets. Some of them didnt inspire procs and about 60% of them that did proc landed. In hindsight our AoE new stance has pretty much replaced rampage(as a symbol for berserker aoe melee damage) as a steady flow of aoe power instead of an hourly massive burst. As a premiere raiding berserker I would recommend that the damage be lowered about 20-40% and that its proc only occur on pure melee swings and not single or aoe or reactives. Or Its damage be lowered and timer increased.</DIV>

[kono]

<DIV>The art has changed at least four times since this time last year, and twice in the recent past.  They've even given us a second art which does <EM>roughly</EM> the same thing, minus the 10-proc limit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With all that in mind, I think it's reasonable to assume the designers are aware of the spell and how it functions, and its continued existence is enough validation for me.  If it is revisited again, so be it, but I can only imagine it would result in some severe tuning-by-sledgehammer overcorrection (like we saw in early 2004), not the fine-tuning you're hoping for.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>najena.konk</DIV>

[-Aonein-]

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zealbourne wrote:<BR> <DIV>Heh, often with you I find myself explaining what seemed simple enough to say in one sentence. I am sure / certain / 100%positive, that we Berserkers ie:Tanks,middle-lower melee damagdealers were not expected to do 8k of damage or 40+total blows in the first second of any combat(in my case the only second). Much less to 3 level 55 solo mobs. So, in conclustion I would say it was only a matter of time before rampage(much to my loss of joy) would be nerfed/corrected/lowered. Will we be able to stand up against wizards or warlocks? Foolishness, we were never meant to. Now let me know if somehow in any measure of what I wrote this time difficult to comprehend.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My Rampage like 70%+ of my skills for T5 are master. The reason I recieved all of those additional attacks is because my opening aoe have 3 chances to rampage, my stance also proced 3 more times to rampage, my melee swing proced 1 chance to rampage, and i believe i had a reactive attack for one more. Each sucessful landing proc of rampage then in turn did an aoe attack on 3 targets. Some of them didnt inspire procs and about 60% of them that did proc landed. In hindsight our AoE new stance has pretty much replaced rampage(as a symbol for berserker aoe melee damage) as a steady flow of aoe power instead of an hourly massive burst. As a premiere raiding berserker I would recommend that the damage be lowered about 20-40% and that its proc only occur on pure melee swings and not single or aoe or reactives. Or Its damage be lowered and timer increased.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P> <P>OMG i hate time outs grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, deleted my whole post. Ok ill keep this short.</P> <P>Im not even a "premiere" raiding Berserker and i already suggested they make Rampage proc off Melee auto attack damage only.</P> <P>How many groups do you group with that let you drag them all over the country side to only take on group encounters because of 1 CA? None, they would get sick to death of it and and just tell you to kill everything you see, <STRONG>^^^</STRONG>, <STRONG>^^</STRONG>, group encounters, you name it. Now also add into the picture there making the Dungeon areas the place to be for loot and majority of them have lock out timers. Now with in these dungeon zones, how many do you see today with group encounters all through the entire zone? None. Maybe the named mobs are group encounters, but there <STRONG>^^^</STRONG> group encounters, not above group solo mobs that are just asking for a beating.</P> <P>Now here is a sceanrio for you. How about they leave Rampage as it is, make it proc of melee auto attack damage only and competely stop it from procing off our CA's. This will stop it from doing what you see here for example doing 25 procs on a 2 mob encounter, an extra 5 procs when it should only be doing 20 procs or 10 per mob.</P> <P>So lets say for example we have a 2 mob encounter, thats 20 procs, with a 70% success rate ( all depending on lvl of course ) making it only 14 procs out of 20. Thus no need to do anything to the skill itself damage wise but make it a auto attack damage proc only.</P> <P>Now the beauty off having the auto attack damage proc only is it gives people who Dual Weild more of a purpose. Why? Because at the moment people have trivialised a 2 hand weapon for a Berserker because the slower the weapon is the more you will proc your AoE's, and also other class Spells and Arts they cast on you. A person who Dual weilds will have a higher chance of firing off all 10 procs in 36 seconds then a person who weilds a 3.8 delay a second wep. thats even if they can hit successfully 10 times with a 3.8 second wep in 36 seconds, but the benefit for weilding such a slow delayed weapon is in the amount of Procs that can be done, the beauty of dual weilding is in the amount of hits that can be done, from auto attack damage and Rampage.</P> <P>Do you honestly think SoE have made the Berserker class to revolve around 2 hand weapons when we can use every single weapon that is out there? "Foolishness" comes to mind. Not everyone wants to play a trivialised class and get told he isnt performing his duites as a Berserker correctly because he isnt weilding the slowest 2 hand wep he can get his hands on, what a joke.</P> <P>Its quite clear that from your gear and the way you speak about yourself being this "premiere" Berserker that most people out there will only be able to dream about having the gear you got. Clearly an elitest trying to indicate what is best for the class because he is overpowered from his gear. I would love to see a everyday Berserker who doesnt even have a full set of Ebon let alone a few Adept III's <STRONG><U>if</U></STRONG> he has any to do what you are doing. Go try the skill on some higher lvl mobs then yourself, for example if your lvl 55, go try lvl 56 group, then a lvl 57, then a lvl 58 and maybe even a lvl 59 encounter, then post us the parse info on what the hit percent ratio against all these are. I bet it gets less and less. Not to mention the amount of ripostes you would be taking off them because there classed as melee hits which you can take a riposte from them no problem what so ever.</P> <P>If you ask me, the CA has been changed enough over the last year, we went for a huge period were it did nothing what so ever and i find it funny that now people are saying its overpowered, If only some of these people seen what it was doing Last christmas, my my, you have no idea of overpowered.</P>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> konofo wrote:<BR> <DIV>The art has changed at least four times since this time last year, and twice in the recent past.  They've even given us a second art which does <EM>roughly</EM> the same thing, minus the 10-proc limit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With all that in mind, I think it's reasonable to assume the designers are aware of the spell and how it functions, and its continued existence is enough validation for me.  If it is revisited again, so be it, but I can only imagine it would result in some severe tuning-by-sledgehammer overcorrection (like we saw in early 2004), not the fine-tuning you're hoping for.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>najena.konk</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Totally 100% agree with you Konofo.</P> <P>They changed the way it works not even a week ago by turning it into a melee based attack which can be Riposted, Blocked, Dodged and Parried now and made it so every hit you do consumes power with it. If it was overpowered it would of been nerfed right there and then.</P>

[Pin StNeedl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR> <P><BR>Ok ill keep this short.</P> <P>Blah<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Well, firstly Zealbourne's parser screenshot is on a 3 mob encounter, not 2. There were 25 out of 30 procs, because the mobs died before Rampage completed. Not hard to see if you look at Slaughter hitting 3 times, for example.<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Secondly, changing it to proc only off auto-swing will make virtually no difference, except that it'll take longer to run its course. It will still have the same number of procs, and still give the same damage except it will be spread over a longer time period, and further, it unless you absolutely have to fire the damage off in 3 seconds, a 2H weapon will still beat DW due to other procs (I would rather use a 2H and only get 8 Rampage procs if it means I have 5x the number of Furious Assault procs in the duration). Best case is you'll switch to DW for the 3 seconds Rampage is active, then switch back. I actually posted about how to balance the proc rates of DW vs 2H back 4/5 months ago, but that wasn't heeded, so I (and any other fighter concerned about DPS) will continue to use 2H whenever possible, rather than be a martyr to DW.<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thirdly, who said anything about dragging a group around to look for AE encounters that you can solo in 2seconds? Nobody does that, and why should they when it's on a 3minutes timer? You just camp your group wherever and kill whatever is there (which is usually a mixture of single-mob and AE encounters) and fire Rampage as a nice DPS boost whenever you like - in a group XP situation, it's generally just 3-15k extra damage every 3 minutes, which is nothing like the party-trick of 200k damage it was before April.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Finally, what's with all the random ranting about gear/guild/playstyle? He didn't come here posting that he's better than you because he's wearing T5 fabled and you're wearing T5 treasured. He merely stated that with the right upgrades, he feels that his character does a little too much damage in relation to others, considering he's a tank, and that scales to whatever level you wish (i.e. I'm sure you can out-DPS an Adept I Warlock if you try - both in burst and extended fights).</DIV>

[-Aonein-]

<DIV> <HR> Pin StNeedles wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR> <P><BR>Ok ill keep this short.</P> <P>Blah<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Well, firstly Zealbourne's parser screenshot is on a 3 mob encounter, not 2. There were 25 out of 30 procs, because the mobs died before Rampage completed. Not hard to see if you look at Slaughter hitting 3 times, for example.<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Secondly, changing it to proc only off auto-swing will make virtually no difference, except that it'll take longer to run its course. It will still have the same number of procs, and still give the same damage except it will be spread over a longer time period, and further, it unless you absolutely have to fire the damage off in 3 seconds, a 2H weapon will still beat DW due to other procs (I would rather use a 2H and only get 8 Rampage procs if it means I have 5x the number of Furious Assault procs in the duration). Best case is you'll switch to DW for the 3 seconds Rampage is active, then switch back. I actually posted about how to balance the proc rates of DW vs 2H back 4/5 months ago, but that wasn't heeded, so I (and any other fighter concerned about DPS) will continue to use 2H whenever possible, rather than be a martyr to DW.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Changing it to proc off melee auto damage makes all the difference, not only will it effect your percent chance to hit with the CA because your not relying on your AoE's to fire it for you but especially when people have been procing more then 10 times. I knew this idea would get the 2 hand kings in a bunch because it doesnt cater towards them.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>3.8 second delay wep you would have 9 chances to hit succesfully in a 36 second period, with the way the new combat changes are with Block, Dodge and Parry id say you would land 6 maybe 7 of those, then Rampage itself also has a chance to Blocked, Dodged and Parried yet again. This would significally lower the percent chance of Rampaging being effective for 2 hand weilders, but thats the price you pay for extra proc ratio. Auto attack DPS wise, a 2 hander is now equal t o the same tier and quaility as Dual Weild, so all it comes down to know is the proc ratio. Dual weild is left out of the equation.<BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thirdly, who said anything about dragging a group around to look for AE encounters that you can solo in 2seconds? Nobody does that, and why should they when it's on a 3minutes timer? You just camp your group wherever and kill whatever is there (which is usually a mixture of single-mob and AE encounters) and fire Rampage as a nice DPS boost whenever you like - in a group XP situation, it's generally just 3-15k extra damage every 3 minutes, which is nothing like the party-trick of 200k damage it was before April.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Generally 3 -15k damage on group mobs compaired to a Wizard / Warlock who can do over 35k damage in any 3 min period on a constant basis and that makes Rampage over powered? Assassins doing over 10k a hit, i could go on but im pretty sure you know how much damage the class's do by now.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Finally, what's with all the random ranting about gear/guild/playstyle? He didn't come here posting that he's better than you because he's wearing T5 fabled and you're wearing T5 treasured. He merely stated that with the right upgrades, he feels that his character does a little too much damage in relation to others, considering he's a tank, and that scales to whatever level you wish (i.e. I'm sure you can out-DPS an Adept I Warlock if you try - both in burst and extended fights).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Never mentioned his Guild or playstyle. By the way im in mostly Legendary, so id say im a bit better off then the averge joe.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>The adjustments that are done to you are done to everyone, its not a one sided issue, it never is when balancing something out. And no if the Warlock / Wizard knows how to play his class, he can out dps me np.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>One thing should be pointed out though and thats in these fights, any class can solo these fights. My wifes Templar solos the lvl 50 group encounters in Sinking Sands. So does my friend with his Wizard, its not like Rampage makes the encounters trivial and its not like u can do it on a constant basis ethier with no downtime.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Do you see anyone on the forums or in game saying " [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] Rampage is overpowered now "? No because the mobs you fight with a group of people rampage hardly has a impact on them. Most people wouldnt even notice it unless they parsed it.</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </DIV>

[Pin StNeedl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Changing it to proc off melee auto damage makes all the difference, not only will it effect your percent chance to hit with the CA because your not relying on your AoE's to fire it for you but especially when people have been procing more then 10 times. I knew this idea would get the 2 hand kings in a bunch because it doesnt cater towards them.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>3.8 second delay wep you would have 9 chances to hit succesfully in a 36 second period, with the way the new combat changes are with Block, Dodge and Parry id say you would land 6 maybe 7 of those, then Rampage itself also has a chance to Blocked, Dodged and Parried yet again. This would significally lower the percent chance of Rampaging being effective for 2 hand weilders, but thats the price you pay for extra proc ratio. Auto attack DPS wise, a 2 hander is now equal t o the same tier and quaility as Dual Weild, so all it comes down to know is the proc ratio. Dual weild is left out of the equation.<BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Haste. Berserk Procs (which incidentally happen more frequently with a 2H). 10 auto-attack swings take more like 20 seconds with a 3.8sec weapon. With a 70% hit-rate, it's 32 seconds. (Or less if you're grouped with a Bard/Chanter).</P> <P>Nothing will be changed with respect to the damage being dealt, and you'll still have more damage output with a 2H during that time.</P> <P>And as I posted before, the only thing that needs to be done to balance proc rates between DW and 2H is to make the chance of procs firing from a combat art be independent of weapon speed and type.</P>

[-Aonein-]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pin StNeedles wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Changing it to proc off melee auto damage makes all the difference, not only will it effect your percent chance to hit with the CA because your not relying on your AoE's to fire it for you but especially when people have been procing more then 10 times. I knew this idea would get the 2 hand kings in a bunch because it doesnt cater towards them.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>3.8 second delay wep you would have 9 chances to hit succesfully in a 36 second period, with the way the new combat changes are with Block, Dodge and Parry id say you would land 6 maybe 7 of those, then Rampage itself also has a chance to Blocked, Dodged and Parried yet again. This would significally lower the percent chance of Rampaging being effective for 2 hand weilders, but thats the price you pay for extra proc ratio. Auto attack DPS wise, a 2 hander is now equal t o the same tier and quaility as Dual Weild, so all it comes down to know is the proc ratio. Dual weild is left out of the equation.<BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Haste. Berserk Procs (which incidentally happen more frequently with a 2H). 10 auto-attack swings take more like 20 seconds with a 3.8sec weapon. With a 70% hit-rate, it's 32 seconds. (Or less if you're grouped with a Bard/Chanter).</P> <P>Nothing will be changed with respect to the damage being dealt, and you'll still have more damage output with a 2H during that time.</P> <P>And as I posted before, the only thing that needs to be done to balance proc rates between DW and 2H is to make the chance of procs firing from a combat art be independent of weapon speed and type.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>What they need to do is lower the rate a slow 2 hander procs CA's wether they be your own or from other class's, because if you dual weild and run a parser, the game when dual weilding is fine, its balanced. You cant do what you can do with Dual weilds when using a 2 hander.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The problem isnt Rampage being overpowered, Rampage on a 3 min timer vs group mobs is fine, the problem is 2 hand weapons procing so much is whats making the Berserker overpowered not Rampage, just look at how many time Furious Assault proced in that log even after Rampage had finished.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The other thing they need to do is stop CA procs from procing of other CA's like Berserker Assault, Slaughter, Weapon Guard, Frenzy etc etc, they should make our AoE procs based off auto attack damage like i mentioned before, this is one way to adjust the rate it procs for a 2 hand weapon because people who weild two hand weapons rely on there AoE CA's to proc other AoE's and other CA's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The chance to fire procs from combat arts is already based of weapon speed, take a set of 1.2 second delay duals for example and parse then against a set of dual leafblades that are 2.1 second delays, then parse those against your 3.8 second 2 hand wep. The difference is huge, and thats what is unbalanced, they need to slow down the proc rate from slow delay weps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can proc Furious Assualt 3 times with a set of fast dual weild weps, 8 times with a set of leafblades and as many as 15+ times a fight with a 2.9+ second wep. Thats more then 100% each delay difference. Not talking about Rampage here, im talking about Furious Assault, now add in other abilities that a group can add to you and parse the difference between fast and slow weps, and the difference isnt marginal, its unbalanced.</DIV><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>09-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:05 PM</span>