Anyone else having agro issues?

[Laereneth]

<DIV>I broke out my 49 zerk last night to get a feel for the changes.  Did alot of reading and moving skills around to the best possible layout.  Soloed a short bit to get a feel for it...then went lfg.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I got a group with an inquisitor, warlock, swashy, ranger and chanter in the new sunken sands.  I proceed to pull a single, just to see the ranger pull agro in about 5 seconds.  He says 'oops' and we blow the mob down.   The next pull goes smoother, but then the third pull, the warlock pulls agro.   Then on subsequent pulls, the ranger, warlock and swashy keep pulling agro.  By this time, I'm literally chain taunting my taunt attack, single taunt and aoe taunt to keep agro.  I notice that I am keeping agro better, but I also notice that the dps classes have also adjusted their tactics and their power bars are staying well above 90% so as not to tax the agro envelope.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What am I doing wrong?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Prepatch, I used to tank about anything my group had the brass to take on, and hold mean agro while doing it.  The one thing that I absolutely prided myself on was my agro...prepatch.  I could stand toe to toe with a mob with my RL wizzie friend almost chain nuking, and I'd still maintain agro...prepatch.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Has anyone else noticed agro issues?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bjoern</DIV>

[Mowena-Jerry]

There is a casue for great concern here. I see many Zerkers saying there happy with the combat changes and how awesome we are now. I would have to agree on most parts about our uber ness now. However there is one thing we the combat revamp has taken away from us and that my friends is the ability to hold AGRO!!! Im using Bully, Promise of Violence (cant recall the new name) Fearsome Shout, and the new Offending Defense (which roots you making agro issues even worse) and I still have trouble holding agro in my groups. Im finding that my War Chant may have something to do with this, being it makes everyone in my group go berserk every 10 seconds. So far the only way I've been able to hold agro is to have a Dirge in my group and place his hate increase on me. Im not trying to complain about the combat revamp, but If were going to be an effictive tank we need to be able to tuant mobs off healers (which right now cant be done) and other key dps classes in our groups. We have several tuants, but there all on the same timers so its no use to have them all up. Who knows maybe we will get better tuants as we go, I did hit level 51 last night and Im looking forward to seeing what new skill I get. Adornas Veilkuppler 51 Zerker No Debt, Crushbone Server <div></div>

[KFizzle]

<P>I'm a 48 Zerker, and i was having no probelm holding agro with my Warden and Wizzy from my guild. The Warden normally pulls agro when he has to do what he had to yesterday (heal me like a lunatic, dropping heal after heal). It could be early but i saw no probs, i didnt mess with Stances much before the patch (because i hate being rooted and I hate sacrificing defense or offense, i like to be well balanced), but now Offending Defense seems to help fantastically. </P> <P>My system of pulling and stuff is like this now, I pull with bully, get in position, then i drop my offending defense, start the melee and then i throw up one more taunt (I forget the name to get all their attention if theres a bunch) then my groupmates start in. Then i throw up a couple AOE things like Whirlwind, Stunning Roar or Wallop and no one even thinks about leaving me. It's not too different than my old habits but i dont seem to have to thow up Sunder and other stuff just to either maintain agro or to prevent losses. Maybe in the future i'll have to from time to time pull them back, but so far so good!</P> <DIV>*Edit note, i still like the way it was before class stuff wise, don't get me wrong. I <3 the new con system, i just don't like the changes to our buffs (although conc slot stuff is better than renewing like 8 buffs  every ten minutes).</DIV><p>Message Edited by kfizzle on <span class=date_text>09-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:33 AM</span>

[Stromul]

Well post patch you have to spam your taunts and attack that increase aggro.  I used to just sit there and dps and just throw out an occasional taunt but now it's much harder to keep aggro.  I suggest opening up with a taunt followed by a solo HO then Promise of Violence followed by stunning roar then followed by your regular attacks and cycle taunts in between and you should never lose aggro. <div></div>

[cyberd]

<P>AI am also having issue hold agro</P> <P>Sortof got it down now, I pull with bully or fearsome shout when possible and seem to hold agro the whole fight most of the time unless the silly warlock out nuke my agro then if he dies that his debt and not mine <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Sarai</P> <P>50 berserker of MM</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[uux]

Keep Weapon Guard up as much as possible.  The extra damage from it helps.  Offending Defense is also very useful.  Not only does it add another counter attack, it behaves as an AoE taunt.  I chose this as the trait to upgrade to Master II.  It can be toggled on and off, so no need to mess with the maintained spells window.  Your short term (30 sec) buffs also add some aggro.  Group buffs help too, but the new toggle behavior makes them a pain to use for this purpose (and you shouldn't have to resort to this).  Any reactives group members can place on you could help as well (sometimes this increases the hate towards the caster, not the target). Between the damage, taunts, and buffs, I've had no trouble keeping mobs on me.  In fact, the AoE behavior of Offending Defense brings any adds right to me.  However, I have had a problem getting aggro if someone else pulled the mob and established some kind of hate first (heals, nukes, etc).  It has happened so little so far,  that Rescue has always been available.  Rescue really lives up to it's name now. <div></div>

[kr8ztwin]

well it might help to tell your nukers to hold back a little at the start of the fight.  I found hat this pretty much keeps things runnin smoothly.

[Khal]

<P>Agro control is the responsibility of everyone in the group.  Get your taunts upgraded and use them when they are up.  Use offending defense.  Use your dps.  IF they are still pulling agro, they are the problem not you. </P> <P>Before changes holding agro was too easy, some of these dps have to learn now. </P>

[Ancient-O]

Now... I'm only 32nd level, but I'm having no trouble. Granted, I only group with my wife's Fury, but even when she uses her AOE spell that she got at 32nd, I never lose agro on a group. We were taking the raider/warpriest heroic group outside of the Zek gates, and as long as she waited until I used my spin style attack, and my group taunt, I never lost agro. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have to agree with Khalad... making sure the tank keeps agro is the responsibility of everyone in the group. If the wizard/warlock starts attacking right away, then whines because they got taken down, tell 'em to keep their hands in their pockets for 10 seconds.</DIV>

[Laoch69]

<P>45 Berserker here.  I never had any problem prior to the patch with aggro.  After the patch, aggro seems the same to me.  </P> <P>In fact, it is easier to "get" aggro now, at least for me.  Everytime that I used to pull, I would cast war tides and screaming fury to "buff" everyone to initially get some hate.  Now, since those buffs are "permanent" and are up all the time now (which is fantastic in my opinion) I don't use them when I pull. </P> <P>My only "trick" which has been the same since day one for me is to make sure I get a heroic taunt off at the beginning of the fight, and I am set.</P> <P>--My group fought everything from solo blues, to yellow 3 arrow up heroics yesterday with no problem at all with aggro. </P> <P>I have a blast happy wizard in my group everytime I play, and everything went great, with his revamped spells (some hitting for over 1k now) he never drew aggro from me.  Except one time when he got a little excited and hit one of his big spells prior to me getting the taunt off <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Could this be a patch that actually worked as intended?  Kudos to SOE <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Laoch69 on <span class=date_text>09-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:40 AM</span>

[infernus006]

<div></div>For the most part the only ones I really have any problem keeping aggro off are high-level Brawlers and Scouts.  But this was before the patch and still seems to be the case as of now in DoF.  Very rarely will a healer pull aggro off me except when there's a lot of mobs and they're standing close to one that's not my direct target while casting heals or buffs.  If they stay a good distance away from the mobs then it's not a problem, however I understand and respect their right to melee in the fight if they want to so I just deal with it then.  Every now and then a wizzy will pull aggro of my direct target with Ice Comet but as long as they stop attacking it then I can get it right back before they are in any real trouble.  And to be honest, I think the Brawlers and Scouts that I group with could avoid getting aggro if they wanted to but I don't think they really even try.  They don't seem to have any concept of power management or conservation and typically go completely OOM before any of our fights are even half-way over, so it's really no wonder I guess, especially since I tend to pay close attention to my mana pool and try to conserve as much as possible for the next pull to keep things going smoothly.  Plus their need to be in close proximity to the mobs during battle doesn't help me much either, but oh well, it's not like we wipe that much either, so it's all good. Btw, I have Ad3 on Fearsome Shout, Bully, Promise of Violence, and Rescue.  Before the patch I also used Raging Strike and Taunting Blow (both Ad3) but sadly they both share the same timer as PoV now and so have been redered useless to me at my level.  I also chose the Master2 of Offending Defense which I have been using a lot.  Rescue is freaking awesome now and I can't wait for that Insolent Gibe (if we're still getting that). <div></div><p>Message Edited by infernus006 on <span class=date_text>09-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:43 AM</span>

[Laereneth]

<P>Though I agree the responsibility of agro should be shared in the group, I can see in the very near future the scouts with the new dps boost and the top dps mages complaining that they can't use their full arsenal due to agro issues.  The group I was with in my example did make modifications pretty quickly, but with their reduced activity, they stayed over 90% of their power at all times (except the priest).  It just makes you wonder why a group has to work at such low productivity to balance things?</P> <P>Bjoern</P>

[Throl]

<P>32 berserker. </P> <P>Mad Cry (Adept 1) single taunt</P> <P>Enrage (Master II) AE taunt</P> <P>Raging Strike (Adept 1) single damage taunt</P> <P>I've not ever ( repeat ever ) had anyone pull aggro off a single mob, or the mob i'm on currently in a gruop.  My problem seems to be if it's an AE heavy group, members will pull the off-mobs. or ones in a gorup that i'm not currently engaging.  I never had the problem before patch.  It seems the AE taunt is a bit weak, and / or the recast is too slow.</P> <P>just my opinion.</P>

[Chog]

Level 50 Zerker here.  Only have Adept 1 Taunts (Master 2 Offensive Defense trait) and have no problems maintaing agro.  Keeping agro is more then just pressing the taunt key when able. 

[Chog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Throlia wrote:<BR> <P>32 berserker. </P> <P>Mad Cry (Adept 1) single taunt</P> <P>Enrage (Master II) AE taunt</P> <P>Raging Strike (Adept 1) single damage taunt</P> <P>I've not ever ( repeat ever ) had anyone pull aggro off a single mob, or the mob i'm on currently in a gruop.  My problem seems to be if it's an AE heavy group, members will pull the off-mobs. or ones in a gorup that i'm not currently engaging.  I never had the problem before patch.  It seems the AE taunt is a bit weak, and / or the recast is too slow.</P> <P>just my opinion.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Try using your HTL series of skills (Do not know the name of the lower level ones).  20% chance to proc a taunt + damage everytime you are hit.  Helps a lot when fighting multiple targets and multiple encounters.</DIV>

[Throl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Chogar wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Throlia wrote:<BR> <P>32 berserker.</P> <P>Mad Cry (Adept 1) single taunt</P> <P>Enrage (Master II) AE taunt</P> <P>Raging Strike (Adept 1) single damage taunt</P> <P>I've not ever ( repeat ever ) had anyone pull aggro off a single mob, or the mob i'm on currently in a gruop.  My problem seems to be if it's an AE heavy group, members will pull the off-mobs. or ones in a gorup that i'm not currently engaging.  I never had the problem before patch.  It seems the AE taunt is a bit weak, and / or the recast is too slow.</P> <P>just my opinion.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Try using your HTL series of skills (Do not know the name of the lower level ones).  20% chance to proc a taunt + damage everytime you are hit.  Helps a lot when fighting multiple targets and multiple encounters.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Oh I forgot to mention that.  I use HTL all the time.  Adept III and procs 84 threat.  The problem seems to be that my AE taunt is very weak, as it's 10 levels old, and Master II doesn't seem to do much for it.  I just think it needs attention.</DIV>

[Throl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Chogar wrote:<BR>Level 50 Zerker here.  Only have Adept 1 Taunts (Master 2 Offensive Defense trait) and have no problems maintaing agro.  Keeping agro is more then just pressing the taunt key when able. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I know this.  But if you're in an AE type group, fighting groups of heroics, you can only actually engage one mob at a time, and rely on your AE taunt to keep the others on you.  If your group can do tons of AE damage and your AE taunt is weak....well you can figure it out.  You may not be having problems as your AE taunt was more recently aquired, and is therefor more effect towards fighting groups of your level. 

[Zingsterf]

<DIV>ha didnt think I would say this...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but think Im gonna work on my Dirge and play my defiler more... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>wont bore you with a whine so just wanna say Im not happy.... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Peace</DIV>

[Chog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Throlia wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Chogar wrote:<BR>Level 50 Zerker here.  Only have Adept 1 Taunts (Master 2 Offensive Defense trait) and have no problems maintaing agro.  Keeping agro is more then just pressing the taunt key when able. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I know this.  But if you're in an AE type group, fighting groups of heroics, you can only actually engage one mob at a time, and rely on your AE taunt to keep the others on you.  If your group can do tons of AE damage and your AE taunt is weak....well you can figure it out.  You may not be having problems as your AE taunt was more recently aquired, and is therefor more effect towards fighting groups of your level.  <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You do realize Berserkers can engage more then a single mob at once?  What do Berserkers have for group encounters (multiple mobs)?</P> <UL> <LI>Offensive Defense (HTL series)</LI> <LI>2 AoE melee attacks</LI> <LI>Stunning cry series</LI> <LI>group taunt</LI></UL> <P>And yes, there are more ways to maintain agro in groups then the above.  These are the standard / obvious ways though.  Five different ways to ensure group encounters stay on you and not the casters going AoE happy.  </P> <P>Questions I have no answer to, and do not know of a way to test.</P> <UL> <LI>Does going Berserk still cause agro?</LI> <LI>Does the group health regen cause agro every tick?</LI> <LI>Does the self health regen cause agro every tick?</LI></UL> <P><BR></P>

[scl]

<blockquote><hr>Throlia wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Chogar wrote:<BR>Level 50 Zerker here. Only have Adept 1 Taunts (Master 2 Offensive Defense trait) and have no problems maintaing agro. Keeping agro is more then just pressing the taunt key when able. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I know this. But if you're in an AE type group, fighting groups of heroics, you can only actually engage one mob at a time, and rely on your AE taunt to keep the others on you. If your group can do tons of AE damage and your AE taunt is weak....well you can figure it out. You may not be having problems as your AE taunt was more recently aquired, and is therefor more effect towards fighting groups of your level. <hr></blockquote> Theres more than one way to skin a cat. Without trying to tell people how to do their job, and as Chogar said, keeping aggro is more than just pressing the taunt key. <P> If you're really having problems keeping aggro of an entire group, linked or unlinked just buff up. Taunt when they're up, and when they're not, buff up. Run through all the buffs you want up at the beginning of the fight and you will find it extremely hard NOT to keep aggro. <P> I'm not entirely sure if going berserk creates aggro anymore but I would hazard a guess that it does. Seriously, you shouldn't be having trouble keeping aggro if you remember that aggro management isn't all about taunts.

[crazyloner]

as I'm only 39 i probalby can't say too much for this yet, but i usually do ok by merely hitting base taunt. hit taunt, and AE taunt, also using provoking defense and dmg shield as soon as i pull to where i need. But as i said after hittin gthose taunts I hit a CA or 2 that i can fit in after that straight back to taunts as they come up. CA's don't seem to do much for aggro anymore. Been in grp's with illusionists, and all scout types and casters along with healers already since update. My biggest issue i had with aggro was a Bruiser. <div></div>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Khalad wrote:<BR> <P>Agro control is the responsibility of everyone in the group.  Get your taunts upgraded and use them when they are up.  Use offending defense.  Use your dps.  IF they are still pulling agro, they are the problem not you. </P> <P>Before changes holding agro was too easy, some of these dps have to learn now. </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Also like to note your Stuns / Debuffs will now generate alot more agro also, so if your tanking, it does pay to use a Shield for Shield bash for the stun and always keep the mob debuffed.</P> <P>I tested this with a Bruiser and myself using just my taunts, no stuns. Because the Bruiser can deal heavy dmg + stuns at the same time due to there CA's having stuns tied in, if you dont counter act his stuns with your own, he will take agro. I was just taunting and using auto attack, and he took agro. If i taunted plus stuned with Vanquish / Raging Blow, had no problems, i can then also generate even more agro by making sure the mob always has Relentless Battering and Mutilate on it.</P> <P>Taunts + Stuns + Debuffs + DPS. You wont lose it. If you do, your group mates are to blame and they need some more time to adjust how much they can do before taking agro.</P>

[Nosnem]

Yeah I agree I had aggro problem until I started using Ofend Defens and that helped alot.. I dont use a sheild but IU use all my other stuns and that helps out alot. However at the end of the battle I do loose aggro on occassion to mages so Im sure the shield bash would rectify that matter.

[Zingsterf]

<DIV>ahh after a conversation I had with a player this morning, I found the wrongs which I had done in selection of my respec. I was also given additional information as to our roles in tanking and so I was actually given new light to a dark situation. Thanks to this person I forget your name in the Everfrost Server  I just spoke with that was Great Info. Im now looking forward to /respec and making better decisions =).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit that was Taemek actually who shed new light in me   thanks bro  =D</DIV><p>Message Edited by Zingsterfah on <span class=date_text>09-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:08 AM</span>

[Strewth]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Khalad wrote:<BR> <P>Agro control is the responsibility of everyone in the group.  Get your taunts upgraded and use them when they are up.  Use offending defense.  Use your dps.  IF they are still pulling agro, they are the problem not you. </P> <P>Before changes holding agro was too easy, some of these dps have to learn now. </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>/nod

[KFizzle]

<P>After grouping again with people last night in Lavastorm, fighting things higher level than us etc, my group is as follows A 50 Guardian, a 47 Swash, a 47 [or 48 i forget]wizzy,  a 47 Warden and myself a 48 Zerker.  So we're in Lavastorm, the Guardian's having very little problems keeping agro, only occassionally losing it to myself as a "Offtank/DPSer" so i'm like "wow cool they helped Guardian's maintain agro a little better at least." Our Guardians Vid Card goes wacky and when she goes to work on her comp i take up MT duties (we were on teamspeak).</P> <P> Well folks I will tell you, I have ZERO Fabled gear, ZERO 'Uber' stuff, i dont even have imbued greaves of a chestplate thats imbued (dropped enchanted rubicite BP and pristine NON IMBUED fulginate greaves), and i had NO trouble with agro. At NO point in these encounters that i was tanking (those big bad [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] looking giant dudes and the lil dragon cool dudes by the Solsek Eye area) did i lose agro. I can't tell you people enough, the combat changes didn't change the agro holding stuff that much. Just pull with a taunt, pull to where you're going, start the melee when you get there and drop into offending defense BEFORE your group starts to attack and you wont lose agro. From time to time throw out a taunt, i usually do when we drop him into the yellow then once more right around orange time, and usually at the end i'll throw another so we dont lose control before the mob dies. </P> <P>Zerker Tanking hasnt changed much if at all. Vanquish and some of our stuff took a lil hit but our tanking is fine, stop complaining about one of the things they DIDNT break of ours.</P>

[infernus006]

You know what, our buffs don't seem to generate nearly as much aggro as they used to, if any at all.  Anarchy used to be really good for that but the other day, for example, I was running through the desert with some friends and one of my friends was just ahead of me and got an add (a dune spider or something), but they kept running and didn't attack the mob at all and I was running right behind them so I casted Anarchy to get the mob on me but it didn't even look at me.  I used to be able to use Anarchy, War Chant, and any of my HP buffs to pull the aggro of any adds that hadn't been attacked by anyone yet, which was nice because I didn't have to switch targets to get them, or if we were training though a zone then I could pull adds without engaging an encounter, but that doesn't seem to be the case any longer.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[MillsFairchild]

The only time I had trouble holding aggro was against heroics significantly higher than myself.  Tanking those 58^^^ in Pillars of Flame, I lost it a few times.  It could have to do with taunts being resisted, but I could just as easily chalk it up to the other group members (scouts) being a bit overzealous with their new ability to do huge burst DPS. Fighting yellow and lower heroics, I've seen no problems.  In fact, one group I was in nearly took over an entire tower in Maj'Dul without me losing aggro once.  We only lost because the healer couldn't keep me up for some reason... /shrug<div></div>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zingsterfah wrote:<BR> <DIV>ahh after a conversation I had with a player this morning, I found the wrongs which I had done in selection of my respec. I was also given additional information as to our roles in tanking and so I was actually given new light to a dark situation. Thanks to this person I forget your name in the Everfrost Server  I just spoke with that was Great Info. Im now looking forward to /respec and making better decisions =).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit that was Taemek actually who shed new light in me   thanks bro  =D</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Zingsterfah on <SPAN class=date_text>09-16-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:08 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Np man, glad i could help.

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Strewth wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Khalad wrote:<BR> <P>Agro control is the responsibility of everyone in the group.  Get your taunts upgraded and use them when they are up.  Use offending defense.  Use your dps.  IF they are still pulling agro, they are the problem not you. </P> <P>Before changes holding agro was too easy, some of these dps have to learn now. </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>/nod <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Strewth you Aussie?

[wulfgarthegreat]

<DIV>for me agro is ok other then when i grp with a few wizzys in my guild that are mastered.  But they have learned before they start chain nuking let me beat on the mob for a bit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>oh all spells adept 3 for taunts (never seen any master taunts drop lol)</DIV>

[Laereneth]

I have a nice shield, and I don't mind using it on occassion, such as hard named or epics.  But if I wanted to run around 1H + shield all the time, I would've been a Guardian.  I find it a personal affront that SoE has deemed to push the zerks in that direction.  It totally goes against the concept of a zerk in the first place.  But then again, they never claimed to make any sense.

[Chog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Laereneth wrote:<BR> I have a nice shield, and I don't mind using it on occassion, such as hard named or epics.  But if I wanted to run around 1H + shield all the time, I would've been a Guardian.  I find it a personal affront that SoE has deemed to push the zerks in that direction.  It totally goes against the concept of a zerk in the first place.  But then again, they never claimed to make any sense.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I am a level 50 Berserker and when I am the main tank I still use a 2-hander.  If we get adds or fighting really tough encounters then yes, I swap to a shield.  When the combat revamp first came out I was using my shield everytime I tanked because I wanted to make sure I did not die.  After I got used to the changes (along with the healers), I swapped from shield to a 2-hander and did not get any complaints from the healer in the group (who was a level 48 Warden).</P>

[Throl]

<DIV>Well i've gotten a couple levels, and even though till 36 my AE taunt will be half as strong as my single taunt, I'm doing pretty well.</DIV>

[Stuntie]

<P>Tanking as a lvl 20->30 last couple of days has lead me to one intresting conclusion for aggro at my level. </P> <P>He who gets it keeps it.</P> <P>In various groups it was Me and some or more of - Pet class, guardian, other bezerker (5 levels higher than me). I MT'ed even with the Guardian and higher level bezerker - seems the other tanks were more than happy to let me be the punchbag.</P> <P>I was generally pulling with a taunt  and hiting them with a Warrior HO with taunt to close. When I got that aggro I never lost it whole fight, even when the other tanks were completeing the taunt parts of HO's before me so obviously taunting as well.<BR>However if any of the other tank types got a hit in before my HO attack/taunt hit they got the aggro for the fight, and it would not budge. Even if it was the Pet that got the attack in you just could not shift the aggro back.</P> <P>Fortunately it was not a problem as it was all tanks that got the aggro not the squishies. But it really did seem like first in got it for good.<BR>It was a good group though* (always let me get the pulling taunt and HO attack/taunt off before piling in etc.) so that might have helped save them from aggro.<BR>But I did expect guardians and higher level Bezerkers to able to out aggro me every now and then.</P> <P> </P> <P>* Apart from the almost obligatory spot where it all goes pear shaped for about 10 mins for no reason other than it can.</P>